I hate the cajon.

Subject: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,just a-passin' through
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 01:33 PM

I can't stand the sound of the damned things and everyone I hear playing one seems to be overplaying. They slap away at the godforsaken box like they have ants crawling all over it or something. Imagine a proper jazz drum kit being hit so constantly and frenetically. It would sound like 100 typewriters on at once.

I'm scheduled to lead singing at a church, asked to do so alone and just got informed that a fellow has been enlisted to smack the bloody box alongside md. Oh, joy.

Especially since I'll be playing some gentle hymns and some in 3/4 time. The rattling box will just sound so lovely, all the more because the theme of the sermon is to be a proper view of grief and mourning. yes, let's include some goofus banging on a crate!

I hate the cajon and how there's not a shred of Cuban music to be played by the majority of the users I hear. It's all bang, bang, bang over damned rock noises.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 02:36 PM

I'd hate it too, if I knew what it was.

Dave H

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,allan conn
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 02:50 PM

We have a very sensitive and good player at our club. I've found he really helps me as much as anything else. Did have a period where we were over run by bodhrans (spelling)though!

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:01 PM

Is the plural cojones?

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:12 PM

What ever your talking about i am with ya

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:21 PM

I say we need signs and a picket line for whatever that is :)

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:26 PM

For those who haven't come across them yet, there is a wealth of information on the web.

Try this for starters. Apologies...my machine won't do blue clickies..and I have tried...many times...

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acajon%20drums

I'm with the OP on this.

Peter

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:28 PM

Depends on the player and wether he/she is interested in making music or showing off, just as with any other instrument. I have a friend who plays various cajons and a lot of other percussion instruments and he always provides tasteful,timely accompaniment with them.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:47 PM

Dave H -- won't your computer access Google?

Seems to me [having googled!] to be a perfectly acceptable percussion instrument with its own characteristic timbre & playing-technique, tho not a million miles from the djembe & the goblet & the & the & the &&&&.......

What's to 'hate' FCOL!? Enough things worthy of hatred in this sad world. Fancy wasting one's precious hatred on that minimal object!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,just a-passin' through
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:00 PM

The cajon is a Cuban percussion instrument, shaped like a box (cajon can mean crate, box or drawer). It usually has one side thinner, made of hardwood, and snares attached to that side's inner face. One strikes either an adjoining side for a bass-drum sound, or, as with some modern models, the snares are installed at an angle on the front side so that both bass-drum and snare sounds are produced by slapping or pounding the front face of the instrument. the player is seated on top of the instrument and plays by reaching down to strike the surfaces of the cajon.

The problem with using the cajon in pop, rock or folk music contexts is that t was designed to play syncopated Cuban rhythm patterns such as samba. Therefore, people who are not Latin-style musicians hear the cajon played that way and then try to adopt the same syncopated, polyrhythmic techniques in the wrong musical settings.

One of the things that drummers can fail at is being too "busy", that is, playing so many accents and polyrhythms that they obscure the straightforward rhythm of songs, especially when accompanying vocals.

Imagine the difference between a straight-ahead marching meter and a New-Orleans "second line" beat, which is designed for dancing and as a means of improvisation during instrumental playing in groups. yes, there's a place for it, but the place is not all over every damned song in any contextwhich is where cajon playing fails.

There's also to be no rehearsal before I play at this church service, so the box-slapping fellow is just msant to listen and join in as appropriate, which, imo, is never.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:01 PM

Not my cup o' tea, nor the bodhran.
Both seem to be instruments that unmusical and non-rhythmical people think, wrongly, are easy to play.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Tinker from Chicago
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:52 PM

Many, many people play the bodhran incorrectly. In the hands of an artist, though, it can be as sensitive or powerful as the need may be. Don't blame the instrument for the idiots who mistreat it.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:55 PM

I didn't.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 05:06 PM

Hard to dislike what this lady does with it:

Heidi Joubert

I just bought myself a second one today - I had a home made one (starting point a posh French wine crate) and the new one is a miniature about the size of a large bible. Gives you the ability to play with much more subtlety and variety of sound than a bodhran.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: meself
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 07:07 PM

Nothing wrong with the cajon - much preferable to a full drum kit.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: PHJim
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 08:06 PM

While originating in Peru, the cajón is used a lot in flamenco music these days. I believe this use was originated by Paco De Lucia (sp?).
In the hands of a competent, tasteful drummer, the cajón sounds great. In the hands of an incompetent, tasteless drummer, it will sound terrible.
The same can be said for a bodhran, a drum kit, a djembe, a shakey egg or a guitar (or any instrument).

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 08:43 PM

Is that what Ricky recardo played in Lucy

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 08:43 PM

Is that what Ricky recardo played in Lucy

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 04:27 AM

I hate them. They spoil the sensitive playing of my Bodhran. Which is red, so would be out of place in all but the devil's tunes.

The problem is generally lack of thought. Enthusiasm replaces skill. It is a criticism often leveled at banjos. Try stuffing it with kneeling pads if you are in church. Or give him some wooly gloves! How to be diplomatic though - I have no suggestions. Unless - you (no apologies) drum up support!

A Cajon in not a drum - it is a seat. Which makes it all the more galling, because it ruins the joke about "the difference between a drummer and a drum seat. The drum seat only has to support one bum". Oh well, I will have to use the back-up version that refers to a gynecologist.

Last Sunday (Stroud Americana Festival) I saw a singer use an old brake drum - well it is a drum! But he broke his stick on it. How apt! it was a break drum after all! (true story - honest).

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 05:30 AM

There is nothing wrong with any type of percussion,the problem is the player.Many talentless would be players pick percussion because it is cheap,and easy to improvise, an empty box or even a tabletop will do at a push.
A true musician listens to what is being played and decides whether the music needs anything adding and whether he is able to provide it.
The secret is realising he can add nothing of value to what is already being done.
A enthusiastic but talentless drummer joined in uninvited with the music we were playing for our clog morris dancers,no sense of rhythm or timing whatsoever.The lead dancer solved the problem by halting the dance walking up to the guy and in a voice which could be heard by all present suggested he go forth and multiply.
A cruel but effective solution to the problem.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 06:45 AM

shaky eggs are still the worst enemy..

..at least selfish doting parents can't hand out cajons to all their spoilt talentless brats
at indoor 'folk festival' pub gigs.....😜

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 07:12 AM

Live and let live, say I.

Along with other members of our band, I run an excellent session once a month in a village pub. Our bass player occasionally brings along a cajon, and one of the attendees often turns up with a double bass. There's a small, quiet, elderly lady who comes regularly and plays a small, quiet, elderly conga drum. I break into song now and then - usually something from the 1930s - with spaces for improvised choruses for those who want to take one. Apart from the usual selection of sax, nyckelharpa, whistles, fiddle and mandolin choruses, there's always a special chorus - with stops - just for the shaky eggs. Bless 'em!

We aim to please - and have fun - and not get our heads up our arses. There's plenty of room left in the evening for playing a load of beautiful traditional tunes in the usual manner, so we don't mind the occasional batch of broody eggs, pineapples and associated fruit!

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Hamish
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 07:52 AM

Last night was the opening night of a run of six rock shows that I'm a minor part of. Some huge, noisy numbers...

...one of the biggest cheers was for the five kids singing almost a cappella to a simple ukulele and Cajon backing.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 10:17 AM

Will....the "small, quiet, elderly lady" is probably younger than you :-P . Not sure about the conga drum though!

But yes, this is an absolutely BRILLIANT session, not just because of the excellent musicianship of many of the attendees, but because of the sheer joy in music there that means everyone just gets on with it and doesn't tut-tut, judge or try to pigeonhole everything.

The cajon playing there is great....always adds to the effect without dominating or buggering up the rhythm.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 11:43 AM

I think the rant against the cajon is really misplaced anger--the real problem here, Just a Passing Through, is that you have been engaged to perform and then told you must do it with someone you don't know and have never worked with and will not be able to prepare with.

You are right to be angry about this, because that's not the way musical performance works, and whoever arranged it has no idea what they are doing.

That said, rather than taking it up with us, you should have said all this to the person who makes the schedule.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 12:33 PM

I have heard the cajon played with taste and thought it fitted in well with the primary music. I have heard sets ruined by the conventional drum set. Like others, I believe, the problem lies with the player.

When a music performance is arranged, it does seem out of line to bring in a drummer or any other instrument without consulting the primary artist.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 12:38 PM

Will....the "small, quiet, elderly lady" is probably younger than you :-P . Not sure about the conga drum though!

Moi? Younger than springtime! (Well, most of the time...)

:-)

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 12:57 PM

The first time I ever encountered a cajon was approx half a decade or more ago
played onstage through the PA at a Kerfuffle gig.

They were a young band - late teens / early 20s...
so without any knowledge or thought I immediately presumed it was a cool retro rootsy looking
midi percussion trigger device.

After the gig I had a quick chat with the young lad playing it;

[he's now grown up and moved on to much bigger career.]

When I asked him if he'd constructed it himself,
and what midi triggers, and percussion sample module he was using..
and he replied it's purely acoustic full of springs and tinkly little bells...

That's when I learned the lesson not to presume all young players
are completely into modern music technology...😳

Though obviously, some kind if internal micing must have been involved....

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 02:11 PM

Flipping mice get everywhere!

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 15 - 02:17 PM

Miking, micing, mic'ing mic-ing? 🐀

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 04:22 AM

And Mike has nobbled the 🐀 in my Firefox 34 & IE 11

There is a question mark about it !

In Chrome 40.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 04:23 AM

just taking the Micy

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,brie
Date: 23 May 19 - 06:14 PM

I HATE IT TOO!!! I play trumpet, violin and drum kit and my music teacher thought it would be best if she out me on the cajon! I'm the person with the most musical trainning in the band who has been playing trumpet for 8 years. The other 2 members are are pretty bad piano player and a singer. The song we're playing is also a little jazzy and would sound great if i was on trumpet, BUT NO! I'm stucking playing the cajon.

I'm pissed and I'm passionate about hating the cajon!

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Dougal McGuire
Date: 24 May 19 - 02:28 AM

Down with that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 24 May 19 - 09:33 AM

You play the trumpet and drum kit and moan about the cajon?

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 May 19 - 10:35 AM

Too late now for the OP, as the concert in question was 4 years ago, and it's surprising that the OP had so little say in the matter or rehearsal with said bangeroo! Some further pre-concert discussion, negotiation, trying out which sets might be ok with a little sensitive percussion, and which were no way, Jose, might have been in order. I would expect this to happen pre any concerts I play in, and we do have one player who sometimes plays percussion, but otherwise a variety of stringed instruments, whichever suits the piece best.
(Oh I see I've jst said much of what Stim said!)
Different can o'worms/ box o'snares for sessions: as Will said, live and let live!

Subject: RE: I hate the cajon.
From: CupOfTea
Date: 24 May 19 - 11:02 AM

Put me in the "detest" category until/unless I meet up with a skilled player. My reaction has much of the same foundation as folks who can't stand bodhran, bones, or spoons players: exposure to a prepondeance of unskilled players agressively inserting themselves in sessions. I've known some very fine rhythm players on all of these, and inherited a bodhran from one. I rarely play it in public because I need to work with it for a month or so to remember what to do. At Irish sessions around here we have a VERY skilled bodhran player who enchanted me with a soft accompaniment to a waltz.

Many beginner or incompetent players don't have the sense (or self awareness) to NOT insert themselves where inappropriate or unwanted, but cajon players have two aspects that make them a menace. They are LOUD, and that loudness coupled with someone not playing appropriate rhythm can throw a whole group off. The drum sets the pace, want to or not.

A monthly mixed song/ tune session I enjoy has a fine array of regulars. A fine guitar player has a wife who brings a cajon and bangs it loudly without skill. It is rude to me to be beating out a loud 4/4 time when I am trying to sing a quiet song in 3/4 - throws me off, as I am used to playing with folks who understand rhythmic underpinnings. Though the group tradition is that everyone (who is able) can play/sing along, her obliviousness to her inability has forced me to say "this isn't one for a drum" - making ME look rude & arrogant, when I'm just trying to not mess up myself.

Joanne in Cleveland who someday hopes to conquer bodhran, bones and spoons.