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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 05:45 AM Thanks for support, Ake. There are a lot of well-meaning 'none so blind as those that won't see'-ers around these parts: many of them, like Vic & Jack, people whom I generally regard highly. I name those two in particular, as I am left wondering what they mean by expressing themselves 'saddened' [they have both used the word either 'sad' or 'saddened' in relation to their reactions to my posts] that my views do not entirely concur with theirs? What an impertinent nerve on their parts to feel 'sad' if not every one of my perceptions of, or reactions to, every phenomenon happens to be identical with their IMO jejune idealism. Bloody cheek! Makes me sad! ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Johnny J Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:11 AM Firstly, what do we mean by "politically conservative"? These labels don't tell the whole story and even less so these days especially in UK politics today. As you will be aware, many Labour politicians have been accused of being "politically conservative" (The SNP actually call them Red Tories but they can't talk as there are several in their midst too). However, electoral support from both parties even if not the majority of the membership also includes many "conservative" often with a small "c". Otherwise, they would never get into power at all and vice versa. Many Tories have "leftish" views on various issues. Likewise, folk singers will often feel more strongly on one issue than another. So, it is entirely possibly for "Conservatives" to be sympathetic about many social issues, be anti War, or fox hunting etc and so on. However, I agree that you don't get that many "right wing songs" and those that there are seem to be frowned upon. Another thing which hasn't been mentioned is that there seems to be less concern about one's political leanings when it comes to playing tunes. Of course, most folkie musicians also tend to be "to the left" and the bulk of traditional music originated from humble sources although this isn't always the case. The "upper classes", especially in Scotland have had a keen interest in the music too especially during the 19th century and so on.... e.g. Gow and co played for dancing in prestigious ballrooms etc, William Marshall was The Duke of Gordon's butler etc. There is also a very strong tradition of interest and promotion of piping in the army, police and so on. Hardly left leaning organisations and the clarsach/harp until fairly recently was more associated with the higher social echelons. Nowadays, even I play it. ;-)))))) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:13 AM "Ewan MacColl putting on a false Scottish accent to go with his false Scottish name, it's all showbiz!" usual old crap Muskie - shame on you MacColl was brought up in a Scots household and was busking Scots ballads he'd learned at home to cinema queues during the depression. His name-change had SWA to do with show-biz. He woked i the theatre, where actors changed their names as a habit, he associated with Hugh MacDairmaid (whose real name was Grieve) and loads of others who did the same thing to promote Scottish culture and he was on the run from the police as an army deserter - take your pick as to why he changed his name. Wonder why Robert Zimmrmann's name change is never an issue!! The feller's been dead for over a quarter of a century - isn't it time you people made an effort t get something right? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:33 AM Re De Gaulle -- Wasn't it a giggle how he couldn't stop going on about "La Gloire de la France": presumably his gloss on the fact that the French have lost every war they have fought in the last 800 years. And so he patronises us by kindly agreeing to cooperate with the leaders who really were winning the war; and then afterwards somehow infiltrating the [defeated surrender-monkey!] French into the peace process, getting them appointed to a permanent seat on the Security Council*, & all-in-all putting on dog with everyone's cooperation, instead of their being left, as they should have been, languishing on the sidelines with their tail between their poodle legs.... Or is that 'xenophobic'? If so, tough·tittie... ≈M≈ *'The Security Council consists of fifteen members. The great powers that were the victors of World War II — Russia, the United Kingdom, France, China, and the United States...' Wikipedia Wot·the·hell are the Frogs doing in that formulation? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: akenaton Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:46 AM Good points there John J....and remember Violet Jacob our wonderful poet and songwriter who was related to the Royals, yet had a great understanding of basic humanity. As I have said on this forum for years, its time we learned to separate social and political issues....too many of us pin on a political badge and think that anyone who disagrees with the dogma behind that badge is , evil, racist, xenophobic....take your pick. To me politics is about how we run our economy and look after the welfare of our people. Views on social issues transcend political boundaries. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:51 AM . and as to [following this drift slightly further] the Vichy French government's cooperation with the Nazi occupiers in deporting Jewish French citizens to the camps...! |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: akenaton Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:03 AM I love the Jacobean songs yet have been a socialist all my days....how does that work in the PC world of today? I support SNP only for Independence, because they are the only party who can deliver it. I remember the music of a culture which has now almost disappeared and would like to see it at least partially restored.....It is a sad fact of life that most political parties will say and do almost anything to get themselves elected The SNP want to be a free independent nation, yet cynically declare that they wish to remain a member of a club which removes almost all sovereignty. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:04 AM Oh -- but I was forgetting 'WW2 ended 70 years ago' sez Will. So of course none of the foregoing counts. So that's all right then |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Steve Shaw Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:45 AM I don't think anyone in this thread is attacking anyone's "right" to go off on their political hobby horse during their gig if they want to, so let's not get too excited. Also, contrary to what has been said by one poster, it is usually the manner in which the politics is presented rather than whether it fails to accord with one's own views than can cause the irritation (I don't have the right to not be irritated, of course). I get just as annoyed with lefties who do it as I do with Vin's tasteless anti-abortion songs (er, not "pro-life", by the way: I'm just as pro-life as anyone else). Two examples (among thousands) of what I'd call a "good" way to get across a message are the songs My Old Man by Ewan MacColl and Pretty Boy Floyd by Woody Guthrie. Both heaving with poetic licence but both poetic and not polemic! "As through this world you travel, you'll meet some funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, and some with a fountain pen." |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Steve Shaw Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:49 AM " related to the Royals, yet had a great understanding of basic humanity." Heheh..."yet..." |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 08:20 AM Amazing how a thread on music can degenerate into a political slanging match so quickly - and how it can drag supporters of the crypto-fascist Ukip out of the woodwork - the attacks of France on France here verge on the downright racist - is "the fact that they lost every war" really a condemnation of a nation - sounds like a terminal case of 'Little Englandism' to me? C'mon Mike - you used to have something useful and interesting to ay about folk song when I read you regularly. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jan 16 - 08:43 AM In my opinion Matt McGuinn was someone who could put a message across using humour. I saw Ewan and Peggy do a couple of gigs,I thought their presentation was thoughtful, well presented and professional. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:11 AM "Guinn " McGinn" Dick Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:33 AM Apologies. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:46 AM Dislike of a particular person -- de Gaulle -- is hardly to be equated with an attack on his country. It was his idiotic boasting about his country's glory -- at odds with the realities of its military history -- to which I referred. Don't see how that could possibly be any sort of instance of 'racism' by any stretch. I am in fact very fond of France. One of my proudest memories is of being complimented on how well I spoke French by a real old dragon of a French woman police sergeant to whom I was reporting a robbery on the Paris Metro some years ago. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:48 AM " is hardly to be equated with an attack on his country." Crowing that they've never won a war is Mike, neither very adult no or, in my opinion, very condemnatory Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 10:10 AM Not crowing at all, Jim. Simply stating an incontrovertible historical fact which happens to be at odds with the claims made by the egregious General Charles de G. Neither crowing nor condemnation comes into it. Or don't the actual facts of the matter ever matter to you lefties? I have often suspected something of the sort. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: akenaton Date: 07 Jan 16 - 10:19 AM Matt was certainly a committed Communist, as I was in the sixties, whether he carried a card I do not know. But he is an interesting example of some one with a minority and frowned upon political stance, who used the folk scene to further his views. Matts communist views have always been broadly acceptable to "folkies" while other minority views(UKIP) have not. I think the views of radical socialists could be considered at least as much of a danger to the soft centre of UK politics as the views of Mr Farage :0) |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Dave Date: 07 Jan 16 - 10:29 AM The French won the American War of Independence, does that count Michael? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 07 Jan 16 - 10:40 AM I see your History is up to its usual standards Dave. well done. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 10:56 AM "while other minority views(UKIP) have not." Don't know about Matt's views, but I do know that Ukip is not frowned on for their 'minority' views - just theirneo-fascist racist ones. "I think the views of radical socialists could be considered at least as much of a danger " And more power to their collective elbows. "Simply stating an incontrovertible historical fact which happens to be at odds with the claims made by the egregious General Charles de G. " Does it really matter that France never won any wars Mike? If if that's the case. the French people can hardly be blamed for such a 'failing' - they had as little to do with waging wars as the man in the street did in Britain. De Gaul was no different that any other out-of-touch national leader as far as I can see. None of them speak for any of us - or even bother consulting us. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 11:07 AM Nobody said it 'mattered', Jim. You denounced me for stating a truth. Whether or not it had any particular significance is not part of the question SFAICS. And I didn't call it a 'failing'; the failing, if there was any such, was De Gaulle's for making false claims, not his country's for not having fulfilled them. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jack Campin Date: 07 Jan 16 - 11:26 AM 'The Security Council consists of fifteen members. The great powers that were the victors of World War II — Russia, the United Kingdom, France, China, and the United States...' Wikipedia Wot the hell are the Frogs doing in that formulation? They lost 600,000 people to the Nazis, more than the total losses to either Britain or the US, so maybe they earned it? Britain, the US and France together didn't lose as many people as any of India, Indonesia or Vietnam individually, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties Not that anybody considered giving them a voice in the reorganization of the world. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 11:39 AM "You denounced me for stating a truth." I didn't Mike - I disagreed with you for blaming "the French" for something that was beyond their control. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: akenaton Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:16 PM Jim, I don't think there is anything neo-fascist about the views of UKIP, considering that all other major parties have adopted them. Which particular ones do you perceive as "neo fascist"? I don't agree with their views on the economy, but I see nothing Fascist in them, in fact they seem to want MORE freedom for the UK people, not less. There are double standards afoot in folkdom and in your mind. Though a socialist, I have always understood that a hard left wing government would be obliged to control all sections of the population, not just the rich. But that control would obviously be acceptable in your eyes.....or perhaps you are simply a liberal dreamer? A hard left wing government would certainly not use cut price immigrant labour to make themselves viable whilst our own people are redundant, dispirited and consigned to the scrapheap. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:17 PM What was that, Jim, that you see me as having 'blamed' them for which was 'beyond their control'? I don't recall "blaming the French" for anything. You have lost me, I'm afraid. Still, this is one of those cross-purposes conversations that could run'n'run, I suspect. So only reply if you genuinely can clarify this point by which I am exercised, as to what you perceive me 'blaming' the French for. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:30 PM You wrote "presumably his gloss on the fact that the French have lost every war they have fought in the last 800 years." I've not long been called an Anglophobe for saying I thought World War One was unacceptable murder - an accusation now common whenever someone criticises Britain by some people. and I seem to remember that not too long ago you accused my of hating Britain because I disagreed with much of British policy If I mis-remembered, my apologies, if not, you really can't have it both ways. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:42 PM "I don't think there is anything neo-fascist about the views of UKIP, considering that all other major parties have adopted them." Taking politicians as a yardstick is hardly a reliable judge of anything. What makes Ukip what they are is the fact that they have nothing to offer other than mistrust of foreigners and a 'fortress Britain' approach. Unlike other political parties, their main ploy is the race card, even though they, like the BNP have taken steps to clean up their act. Basically they are no different than Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' As I said last time we were here, the last 'Socialists' to play the race card in the way Ukip is, was Moseley and his Blackshirts. The only way you will ever convince me of your claim to Socialism is when you explain exactly what you mean by Socialism - in half a century I've never come across a Socialist expressing the views you have - on race, on humanitarianism, (even on "liberalism" which you appear to detest) As fort your attitude on homosexuality.... beyond belief - even beyond the views of those now being expressed by the most reactionary clergymen. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:54 PM I still can't see where stating the fact that "the French have lost every war they have fought in the last 800 years" can be construed as 'blaming' anyone for anything, by any definition of the word 'blame'. If you interpret this as 'blaming', would you be so kind as to explain your understanding of the word 'blame'. I, myself, cannot see how stating an accurate fact about anything can constitute 'blame' in any sense that I understand the term. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 12:57 PM BTW, Jim -- it may seem a minor & evasive point to you: but your inability to spell correctly the name of the leader of the BUF detracts, to me at any rate, from your argument. Surely you know his name was Mosley. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Musket Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:07 PM OK. I get 10 points for winding Jim up about MacColl, 5 for gloating over Michaels extremist views being frowned upon by serious rational people and a further 5 for dragging Vin Garbutt into it. I lose 20 points for making a serious point somewhere in all this. Bugger. Jim, don't try to analyse the village idiot. It's far nicer to laugh at him than to try to take him seriously. If I took him seriously, as my good friend Musket did for a while, you end up throwing up in a bucket. Far better to look forward to reading him embarrassing himself. Anyway, he seems to have a purpose now, comforting Michael. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:10 PM "Basically they [UKIP] are no different than Powell's 'Rivers of Blood'" .,,. Can you explain what you mean here, please, Jim? I can see no similarity whatever. Seems to me that is a purely illogical & irrational emotive assertion with no basis in any sort of objective truth whatever. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:14 PM "Surely you know his name was Mosley." I do, of course, especially as I did some electrical work for his relative, the film critic - thought I usually spelt it correctly. Can't for a second why my mis-spelling should detract from what I say - unless you're going down with the dreaded typo-itis that seems to have inflicted some others on this forum (usually when they run out of ideas). Perhaps we should leave it there - I apologise for having misunderstood you, if I have. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:22 PM ... apart of course from the well known leftie ploy of asserting any pov to be "racist" if one can't find any rational motive for objecting to it... like Jim reckoning my entirely accurate assertion as to the lack of success in battle over many centuries of the French being 'racist' in some way. The lefties just don't seem to realise how damaging it is to their arguments to reduce them to nothing but an undefined 'boo-word' in this fashion. Pathetic, really... |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: The Sandman Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:26 PM who won battles and or wars, can on occasions depend on which country is writing the history books, my nephews and neices spent the first ten years of their life in england and learned they had won certain battles with the french, imagine their surprise when moving to france and attending french schools the learned the french had won those battles. DeGaulles specches are no more out of touch than some of Churchills, the truth of the matter is that the British Bulldog[ Churchills words] was in effect a toothless poodle without some other assorted dogs of different nationalities] the UK could not have won the second world war without the help of a number of people,who included in no particular order of importance, de gaulle and the french resistance, America, Soviet union,and others. if you wish to criticse the french, would not a more appropriate criticism be of Vichy France? and the FASCIST COLLABORATORS. One thing De Gaulle was not, was a fascist collaborator. if you want to blame someone for the EU, why not blame Edward Heath one time Conservative prime minister, De Gaulle, against the UK joining, I would have thought you would have liked him for that, you being in favour of the uk leaving 1967: De Gaulle says 'non' to Britain - again The French President, Charles de Gaulle, has for a second time said he will veto Britain's application to join the Common Market. He warned France's five partners in the European Economic Community (EEC) that if they tried to impose British membership on France it would result in the break-up of the community. All five - Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Italy and Germany - have said they would support negotiations towards British membership. Only France remains opposed. Back to the original thread. I nominate UffaFox he sang songs of the sea[ often classified as folk songs]. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:27 PM "Can't for a second why my mis-spelling should detract from what I say" --- Hasn't there recently been a thread going on that very point? Might be worth checking it out. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Dave Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:33 PM Lilo, you are the wrong side of history here. Form Wikipedia, just for starters: "France played a key role in the American Revolutionary War (American War of Independence; 1775–1783). After the Americans captured a British army, France recognized and allied itself with them in 1778, declared war on Britain, provided money and matériel to arm the new republic, and sent an army to the United States. French intervention made a decisive contribution to the U.S. victory in the war. Motivated by a long-term rivalry with Britain and by revenge for its territorial losses during the French and Indian War, France began secretly sending supplies in 1775. Spain and the Netherlands joined France, making it a global war in which the British had no major allies. France obtained its revenge, but materially it gained little and was left with over 1 billion livres in debts that seriously weakened the government on the eve of the French Revolution." Sort of makes you sympathise with Mike actually. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:36 PM De Gaul??..What 'Folk song' did he play???...This thread is about, 'Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative'..Why are you 'debating' him???? Just like lightweight lames..change the subject and avoid the issue!!...then degenerate into pedantic nonsense...typical. Let's stick to the topic at hand. GfS |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:38 PM Oh yes, Dick -- the pathetic Heath is much in my mind regarding that debacle. But my point was that the egregious de Gaulle was using the question to avoid having to thank anyone for what they had done for him during the war. He was in fact getting revenge on us for putting him in a position where any decent gentleman might have been expected to express a bit of appreciation. He was just too vain & self-important ever to admit that he had any reason to feel any gratitude for the services of assistance and asylum afforded him during his exile. And, yes indeed!, he had a lot to do with the Resistance -- from a nice safe distance. Good rhyme there, innit. Might work it up into a polemical poem some time, eh! ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 07 Jan 16 - 01:49 PM Dave, your North American history is a bit off. The French participated in the revolution, but they did not "win" it. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Dave Date: 07 Jan 16 - 02:23 PM I am sure that is what they teach in American schools Lilo. But without French intervention it is pretty clear that the rebellion could have been contained. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: akenaton Date: 07 Jan 16 - 02:56 PM Jim, you(I suppose deliberately)ignore my point about double standards and proceed on a rant about non existent racism and homophobia. UKIP from what I have read do not mistrust foreigners, they seem to think that we(the UK) are being forced into taking too many, due to the policies dictated by the EU. Hardly a "fortress Britain", they recommend enlarging our number of trading partners to include most of the world....our trade with the countries of Europe would also continue unhindered after withdrawal. My views on humanitarianism and "liberalism" :0)....come on Jim what kind of socialist are you, you know that in a Capitalist society "humanitarianism" comes a very poor last, all that matters is another day another$...you are kidding yourself! Detest "liberalism"....bloody right I do, "liberals" in the mould of the anonymous trolls, stalkers and scumbags who infest this forum do not deserve anything other than detestation......and I am sad to say you, who aught to know better, encourage them. Homosexuality what do you know about my opinions on homosexuality? I have none other than the fact that it is here amongst us.....nothing to see...move on. Perhaps you are referring to my "hatefilled" views on homosexual health rates? well may I direct you to the offices of Public Health England and The Centre for Disease Control, who will inform you that the percentage rate of new infections of Syphilis and HIV amongst male homosexuals is higher than all other registered demographics combined......does that make you think Jim?.....no I don't suppose it does....to make you actually THINK would take a ton of TNT. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jim Carroll Date: 07 Jan 16 - 02:57 PM "like Jim reckoning my entirely accurate assertion as to the lack of success in battle over many centuries of the French being 'racist' in some way." Thank you for accepting my apology so gracefully Mike - much appreciated. Can't recall having ever received one from you - or others - for having been called an Antisemite for daring to criticise Israel - ah well - that's life! Yours as ever - Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Jack Campin Date: 07 Jan 16 - 03:07 PM MGM and his pals reminds me of the occultist rocker Genesis P-Orridge. He would often talk about his body modifications to interviewers, but couldn't let them leave without documenting it by showing them his pierced penis. The OP asked for examples of conservative singers. OK, MGM is to some degree a singer and a bottled-in-bond conservative, but we didn't need him to drop his trousers to prove it. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: MGM·Lion Date: 07 Jan 16 - 05:32 PM I posted this earlier, but doesn't seem to have taken .,,. More than somewhat mystified as to your meaning, I fear, Jack. Have not the privilege of least idea what you on about here. What have my Tesco beige corduroys to do with anything? Jim: my recollection from those lang-syne exchanges is that I did withdraw the antisemitism allegation. In case I failed to do so, then [better late...!] I do so now. It was a somewhat conditional apology ("if I have misunderstood..."); but such as it is I am happy to accept it. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Mystery Guest Date: 07 Jan 16 - 06:06 PM I see you're still floating around this thread 'guest from Sanity'. Having been so typically critical of this forum of me posting anonymously, you never did answer my question as to whether 'Guest from Sanity' is what it says on your birth certificate?????? Several years ago I posted (with my real name) on mudcat, asking a question about a specific song, and did receive some helpful replies, but amongst them was a really vitriolic response (from one of the contributors to this thread) complaing that I'd not been back on the forum to say thank you. As it happens, I have a life, I'd spent two nights gigging, and a weekend in the studio (with a nationally known band) and did not have time to look at the responses to my question. How many other people have had this experience of mudcat. That's why, on the very odd occasions I chose to visit mudcat, I prefer to post anonymously. It really is high time you all grew up! This site could be an absolutely wonderful resourse if it wasn't for the fu.king idiots who populate it. Time for the so called 'moderators' to clean it up! Why not forget the childish bickering and concentrate on the music that this site si supposed to be about, or is that too difficult for you??? |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Allan Conn Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:17 PM Surely it wasn't just a case of the French intervening in North America though Hi-lo? The conflict then expanded globally into a much wider conflict where Britain was fighting not just France but Spain and the Netherlands too. North America was just one theatre in a more global conflict.Something similar to how the Jacobite Rebellions were one aspect of a wider conflict. What ifs are interesting but of course they can't be proved either way. As to what someone else mention - what is taught in schools in the US? I don't think the said subject is given much space here in the UK if it is given any space at all. Certainly both my kids did Higher History recently and the subjects taught were the Reform Act, First World War and funnily enough my son did a lot of work on the American Civil War (which he didn't particularly enjoy) but can't remember either of them even mentioning the American Revolution. Never touched it when I did history either. I remember doing the Reform Act, First World War and Russian Revolution! I think Brits in general will be pretty ignorant re the details of American Indepedence. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:29 PM Hi, Allan- I think that U.S. history textbooks have always taught that the French played a key role in the U.S. revolution. I think that to say they "won" the revolution, would be going too far, but their role was essential. If I recall correctly, the Irish depended on the French in their revolution of 1798. The French didn't make good on their promises, and the Irish lost. In this case, I think it's fair to say the French "lost" the 1798 Irish rebellion. What's the difference between France losing the one and not winning the other? I dunno. I think I'm going to have to ponder that awhile. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,# Date: 07 Jan 16 - 07:59 PM French Colonial Empire. As a BTW, I find the word 'frog' in reference to French people extremely offensive. |
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Subject: RE: Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jan 16 - 09:03 PM Would 'Toads' do?? How about polliwogs?? How about, 'Folk Singers who are Politically Conservative'?? GfS |
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