BS: Beyond logic

Subject: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 02:00 PM

If we pit semantics and definitions against stochastics and possibilities in a winner takes all tag team competition, my money is on the possibility team.

Stochastics are a kind of randomness with a bit of predictability but is not chaos. Together with possibilities approaching infinity they are a powerhouse compared to our puny definitions, logic and definitions.

Team possibility is magnanimous enough to let our definitions and logic to have a rare occasional victory but the winner by virtual unanimous decision is stochasticity and possibility.

So
lets think outside the box of semen antic semantic mistakes and indecisive definitions and language for the following few moments.
The following may have meaning to the god team as much or as little as to the linear rationalists or Steve Shaw who enjoys alternative language.

Lets start this improbable tale in the middle. After all the middle is where we all are born.

There was, will be, is an entity very small because it was still inside its mother. With only an internal coded memory of its ancestors. It has had little time to come to terms with its existence when the threat to its organized precise growth suddenly and silently force the entity to insist upon existence. The search of its internal memory becomes in direct wordless communication to the entity. Many other wordless secrets of this internal memory make themselves known via symbols tastes and sensation. The initial sensation is one of a never ending journey with an insistent sound of a need for precision. The experience of an infinite orbit is lonely for eons until a target appears that also insists upon precision.

Upon impact loneliness ceases and two sensations at once appear.
One is all moving jagged lines and the other is rounded colored clouds of a satisfaction never felt before. The entity is born.

Now the entity has a new sense with its eyes to an outer universe, which is the strongest sense the entity now has. For this reason alone we will now call the entity 'I', after its foremost ability to relate to the world.

'I' was given a gift before birth then at childhood when I received another of a jig saw puzzle of the earth and solar system. This jig saw puzzle was no ordinary 2D pictures but a 3 dimensional time flexible changing puzzle.

At middle age my gift was puzzle of the total and complete multiverse.
However almost all the pieces were invisible or unrecognizable and might never appear unless I first discovered its necessary counterpart. Sometimes to see certain things I had to assemble the puzzle in reverse. If you don't think it was hard looking for pieces that were black holes or aged dark galaxies or dark matter you've got another big bang coming.

By old age the puzzle had expanded. Really expanded. Measuring some pieces to fit worked best with the simplest LIGO like experiments. But measuring what is not even known to us is chancier than drawing to an inside straight.

So we are at a leap of faith moment where logic and classical physics is not enough to find the pieces of the puzzle , let alone assemble the puzzle. I have made alternative guesses that have some substantive reasons to be a possible piece of the puzzle but her is no proof they will fit in the spaces still left in the grand puzzle.
The reason is because the space for the new pieces to fit in are also invisible. WE need to see with new 'I's'.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 02:54 PM

the currents of energy and knowledge of galaxies into the super neurons


kaku

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 08:23 PM

If this then that.

If and then are logical.
This and that are beyond logic.

If this and that are wrong, there is no amount of logic that can fix it.
No matter how much we may have of this or that, without if and then, nothing is logical. And without this or that, there is nothing to reason about. But still it may be real.

this that this that - not logical
if if then then - not about anything

Logic is about order, equations, and various permutations of any given statement about other things that already must exist. Logic helps us understand the world and better participate in it, but the world is not logic itself. The world is beyond logic. It is a puzzle that exists. Experiences still need a place to exist, logical or not.

Every statement of substance originates outside logic. Remove all substance and we are left with pure mathematics - a form of deep abstract puzzle soving. Thank goodness life is not math, but we have mathematicians to thank, along with everyone else, for all the abstract puzzle solving that has eventually improved our lives/comfort. In your room physicists beond number are respondsible for almost everything in your room, with the obvious exception of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 07:46 AM

I think the discussion title is exceedingly apt!

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:40 AM

Therefore creative design is totally correct because it feels good and oozes truthiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:09 PM

If this is that , then that is this then, and if it is that then this is not ...it is beyond logic...

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:12 PM

This is attached to that, which is attached to nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:22 PM

Well good for you,
It was a long way to go to properly disparage and satirize creative design but at least you got it.

Or maybe you didn't!

Even a dog knows when its been kicked on purpose.


truthiness be unto you brother

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:35 PM

Is "semen antic semantic" a typo or another term for a concept, meaning that which is conceived?

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 16 - 08:36 PM

It was a spell check option. (the rest I would call an uncensored dyslexic rant nearly devoid of logic but rich with truthiness)

I do not mean to criticize great religious scholars whose intent is to seek greater compassion and knowledge for mankind and our world.

But when religion abuses science with notions of creation science it is as backwards as science basing our next discovery of space energies upon faith and not the next generation collider in China nearly twice the size of the LGH.

I would criticize science as well when they are not being honest in their project grants or dubious measurement boondoggles. (like the one at the south pole)   
So I agitate, but would never think of censorship. Most opinions are NOT valid as Lord Donald or the 700 club teaches us.

Its up to each of us to determine how much and what kind of BS we will not accept.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 02:28 AM

To be is to do - Socrates

To do is to be - Sartre

Do be do be do -Sinatra

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 10:40 AM

.....or when atheism abuses science with notions of evolutionism....

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 11:10 AM

Pete took the red pill and is still somehow able to be heard in the real world. How does that happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 12:15 PM

Its the will of god.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 12:22 PM

Down do be do down down, comma comma -Neil Sedaka

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 01:00 PM

I suppose you could say that science does abuse people who tenaciously hold onto previously held beliefs when the ideas are shown to be abject nonsense.

I suppose I could say that the decades of abuse and ostracism I have received from the proudly religious does not enamor me to their dictates and false claims of being victimized.

I was punished and expelled from public school in 7th grade for writing an essay on evolution. We should not treat our children this way. We should not treat our teachers with threats encountered in the Scopes Monkey trial.

It was pointed out to me that my most offending sentence was "Man and other animals all undergo a process of evolution."

If you support anti evolution you support the punishment of children, teachers, anthropology and paleontology experts.


We are past that mindless retribution, unless you are pathologically anti social.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 01:31 PM

There are devout Christians who are just two steps behind the Taliban when it come to evolution. Fortunately the long dead debate is still respectful in the USA and does not immediately proceed to killing kids and teachers as they do in Afghanistan.

Anyone, be it simply someone you know, who is still seething from this debate, should be introduced to some kind of compromise before they become as radicalized as severely as pro life terrorist killers who are ironically willing to kill doctors and innocents.

I normally express myself with a softer touch but there are real temptations for religion to get out of hand just as science can become potentially stupid in resurrecting the 1910 bird flu*.

Today Texas public school students are required to learn creation "science". Fundamentalism or science? Its up to the kids?



*if the perma frost melts it may re enter the biosphere. A jump start toward a vaccine is as risky as it is life saving

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 04:02 PM

Like the evolution of Chevrolets, the organic evolution of life-forms is somewhat influenced by, but not dictated by, the notions and intentions of the buying and using audience. Exactly how this works is an interesting study.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 06:54 PM

So pete, enough about evolution.

Tell us about your belief in witches and whether you feel its more appropriate to hang them or burn them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 16 - 08:49 PM

Greg everyone knows if a witch is made of wood - burn.
If they are beefy - hang.

Amos, traits that are seen as beautiful, sexy, accomplished etc. have an advantage of being reproduced, so, yeah what you said.

What if a tree made a fruit so delicious to every thing that encountered it, that the tree has accientally compromised its own reproduction. In the case of the Dodo or passenger pigeon there was not enough time to evolve a defense.

With enough time the tree may try to sour its fruit to ensure better reproduction. Or maybe make seeds that are not digestible.
Bananas come to mind. They are dependent on humans for mass reproduction.

Point being;
If Chevrolets grew on Trees they would be likely to multiply in the wild while Jaguar trees would require the synergy of a niche habitat of cool English dudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jun 16 - 03:31 AM

Creation Science is not Science. It is a philosophy.

Religion is a force for good, that the acquisitive power hungry can usurp.

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 16 - 05:56 AM

here here bravo brava bravissimo harrumph harrumph tell it like it is.

I have even seen the corruption of small Buddhist sects by people who are anxious to usurp. The fault is not in our stars...

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Jun 16 - 08:32 AM

Creation Science is not Science. It is a philosophy.

"Creation Science" is an oxymoron. Its also bullshit.

Now pete- back to those witches........

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 16 - 08:49 AM

Verily the holy ghost said unto thee...

If witches are made of wood you burn them
If they are beefy you hang them

Subject: RE: BS: Beyond logic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jun 16 - 11:40 AM

Religion is a force for keeping people in chains, dividing them from one another, engendering hatred and intolerance, feeding terrorism and stopping people from thinking for themselves, the latter as repeatedly proven here by anyone of faith who posts about religion or any matter that religion has decided is a "moral issue." It's also, in its Christian manifestation, expert in engendering antisemitism and covering up child sex abuse by its supposedly holiest members. So I'll let you tell me how it's been a "force for good." In your own time...