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BS: Trump again

michaelr 16 Aug 16 - 08:59 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Aug 16 - 09:01 PM
Greg F. 16 Aug 16 - 09:12 PM
Greg F. 16 Aug 16 - 09:16 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Aug 16 - 03:39 AM
Jack Campin 17 Aug 16 - 05:06 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Aug 16 - 07:25 AM
Stilly River Sage 17 Aug 16 - 07:54 AM
Greg F. 17 Aug 16 - 08:10 AM
Greg F. 17 Aug 16 - 08:17 AM
mkebenn 17 Aug 16 - 12:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Aug 16 - 12:09 PM
Charmion 17 Aug 16 - 12:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Aug 16 - 12:37 PM
keberoxu 17 Aug 16 - 01:17 PM
Greg F. 17 Aug 16 - 02:52 PM
TIA 18 Aug 16 - 09:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Aug 16 - 09:56 AM
gillymor 18 Aug 16 - 10:11 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Aug 16 - 05:42 PM
akenaton 19 Aug 16 - 02:30 AM
TIA 19 Aug 16 - 04:28 AM
akenaton 19 Aug 16 - 08:05 AM
Jeri 19 Aug 16 - 09:48 AM
Greg F. 19 Aug 16 - 09:50 AM
Stilly River Sage 19 Aug 16 - 11:39 AM
akenaton 19 Aug 16 - 12:13 PM
gillymor 19 Aug 16 - 12:31 PM
Greg F. 19 Aug 16 - 12:33 PM
Donuel 19 Aug 16 - 12:42 PM
Greg F. 19 Aug 16 - 12:48 PM
Joe Offer 19 Aug 16 - 01:02 PM
Jeri 19 Aug 16 - 01:16 PM
gillymor 19 Aug 16 - 01:23 PM
Greg F. 19 Aug 16 - 02:08 PM
Donuel 19 Aug 16 - 09:35 PM
Greg F. 20 Aug 16 - 09:54 AM
Stu 21 Aug 16 - 03:57 AM
Greg F. 21 Aug 16 - 10:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Aug 16 - 06:02 PM
Greg F. 22 Aug 16 - 06:28 PM
mkebenn 23 Aug 16 - 08:14 AM
gillymor 23 Aug 16 - 08:21 AM
mkebenn 23 Aug 16 - 01:31 PM
Greg F. 23 Aug 16 - 06:11 PM
Joe Offer 24 Aug 16 - 02:46 AM
mkebenn 24 Aug 16 - 08:45 AM
Greg F. 24 Aug 16 - 09:51 AM
Donuel 24 Aug 16 - 02:18 PM
Greg F. 24 Aug 16 - 02:40 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 08:59 PM

Yeah, well, Maureen's had Hillary's number for longer than most. That doesn't mean she's wrong, does it? Similarly, just because you despise Ake for being a homophobe or whatever else, that doesn't mean he's wrong about everything, does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 09:01 PM

Greg,
Christian Terrorism?

Probably not Greg.
CNN 2 hours ago,
"There is no indication that it was a hate crime, police said."

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/15/us/new-york-imam-shooting/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 09:12 PM

That doesn't mean she's wrong, does it?

By the same token, Don't mean Dowd's right, either, particularly since she's prejudiced against HC and has been since day one. Read that footnoted info and get back to me.

And I don't "despise" Ake- he's simply wrong a good portion of the time and especially with the BS he continually spouts about Trump & Clinton.

Now Trump I DO despise - he's the most dispicable candidate for president of the last 125 years, and I remember George Wallace. Trumps followers remind me of Tailgunner Joe's acolytes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 09:16 PM

Ah, Professor, you should have read the REST of the CNN article, which Clearly states:

"No motive in the killings has been determined, Boyce said."

Ooops.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 03:39 AM

"No motive in the killings has been determined, Boyce said." but they do not suspect a hate crime.

Perhaps they will be proved wrong, but you were jumping to conclusions in suggesting "Christian terrorism."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 05:06 AM

Trump loses and America wins. We come away with what will likely be a solid left of center SCOTUS for at least a generation or more, a very possible Democratic majority in the Senate, the GOP grip on the House severely weakened and a second major party that will have to shun the influence of it's extreme elements if it wants to survive as a major party.

It would make sense for the GOP to organize Trump's assassination (preferably by a patsy from one of the groups he's demonized) and get Pence elected on the sympathy vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 07:25 AM

"There is no indication that it was a hate crime, police said."

But I'll be very surprised if it doesn't turn out to be. Which doesn't in itself necessarily imply "Christian terrorism".   

I always feel there's something weird about the term "hate crime" in relation to murders, which seems to imply that hate isn't a feature of most murders. If anything a murder of a stranger, where there's nothing personal about it is less about hate than a murder of someone close to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 07:54 AM

As noted by a National Public Radio commentator this morning, Trump is now throwing "red meat" to his voter base by removing his top adviser and adding two new ones.

Trump shakes up campaign, demotes top adviser. Of particular note is Steven Bannon, with the Breitbart organization, eponymously named after the nasty political operative whose company (via James O'Keefe) set up sting operations to bring down ACORN. His job is to be strident, ignore what the president's job actually is, and whip up the lowest-common-denominator of the GOP base with whatever fabrications will work. Because that is what Breitbart does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 08:10 AM

but they do not suspect a hate crime.

Hey, Professor:

"First-Degree Murder Charge Added in Killing of Queens Imam and Aide

By RICK ROJAS, NOAH REMNICK and EMILY PALMER, NY TIMES AUG. 16, 2016

Although investigators said they had not determined the motive for the attack, Peter McCormack, an assistant district attorney, described it as "a most horrendous and despicable act." Officials said prosecuting the case as a hate crime remained possible."

Ooops.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 08:17 AM

Which doesn't in itself necessarily imply "Christian terrorism".

Agree 100% Kevin.

However, it IS a curious thing that when a person who happens to be of the Muslim faith murders someone, its "Islamic Terrorism!!" but when a person of the Christian faith does likewise its always "some nutter".

No?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: mkebenn
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 12:07 PM

Good point,Greg F. If you stir up enough hate, someone will die, most likely an innocent. Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 12:09 PM

Not always. Killings associated with the Troubles were not generally put down to "nutters". Nor was Tim McVeigh seen as a nutter rather than a fanatic. It depends very much on the context.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 12:13 PM

A fine point, McGrath: I understand that not all nutters are fanatics, but in what way is a fanatic not a nutter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 12:37 PM

Motivation. A fanatic will be motivated by a cause which is also supported by others who are not fanatics, for example nationalism or politics. What makes them fanatics is that they are more extreme in their action. The motives of a "nutter" are much more personal - and of course their actions might not even be extreme, just out of the ordinary.

It's perfectly possible to be both at the same time. There have been several episodes recently where those involved, while having sort of rational motivation, have had significent mental problems.

It's not a clear distinction with some "causes" that most people would see as pretty crazy, such as racism and some kinds of religious fundamentalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 01:17 PM

Michael Moore spills beans


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 16 - 02:52 PM

Suggestion for Trump Campaign Song


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: TIA
Date: 18 Aug 16 - 09:36 AM

Akenaton continues to assert;

..."Mr McGrath, most of the liberals here supported the removal of Saddam in the cause of "freedom and democracy"."...

Originally, we could not fairly judge whether this was innocent lapse of memory or dishonesty. With the record presented, and not refuted, we can now be sure that it is willful dishonesty.

Please consider this in responding to any further contributions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Aug 16 - 09:56 AM

Not necessarily. Aken's memory on this is different from mine, and that of a lot of other people. I think mine is more accurate, but who knows? There were a great number of posts about this at the time, and I can't imagine any sensible person bothering to check them all. I suppose if you were engaged in some kind of research about that kind of stuff doing that might be part of it.

Though I remain pretty sure my memory on this is more accurate, I am also aware that there may be people around who are honestly but inaccurately sure they opposed the war. Rather the same way pollsters find far fewer people admit to having voted for unpopular governments than actually did.

And there are also those who lie about it, like Donald Trump, but that's another matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 16 - 10:11 AM

Poppycock, McGrath, anyone who wants to examine the discussions can type Iraq into the filter above, select All and scroll down the page and read for themselves. The only people defending the invasion were 3 or 4 and easily identified conservative members. Ake has altered the facts to suit his narrative. He's indulging in more and more trollery and is often called out for it by the moderators.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Aug 16 - 05:42 PM

Yes, of course you can write Iraq in the filter, and set it for "All". And up comes about 250 threads. I've no intentiin of checking through them. (I counted them, but it was tricky keeping count. It might have been a few more than 250.)

As I said, I'm sure enough of my memory here, but for all I know there may be some threads where Clinton type "liberals" might have been in evidence, defending the war, along with aken attacking it. Or perhaps it's his memory letting him down, which I think is more likely.

There were definitely left-of-centre people promoting the war out in the big world, if not too much on the Cat. For example in Parliament and Congress, and in the media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 02:30 AM

As I remarked to Joe, there was only a tiny minority of the membership actually involved in the threads, it tended to be the same small group with an interest in politics.....most could not be bothered, and even amongst the small group there were many who hated war as we all do, but reckoned Saddam had to be removed regardless of the consequences......which we, all knew.

Tia you really do amaze me, leaving the forum for three years then diving straight back in to attack people.
Or perhaps you were one of the "trolling" guests who have been recently deleted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: TIA
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 04:28 AM

"...reckoned Saddam had to be removed regardless of the consequences....."

Please do find anyone who voiced this.

I recall (and linked to) many people who opposed the invasion precisely *because* of the consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 08:05 AM

Well it seems we are in agreement Tia....so what's all the fuss about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 09:48 AM

The "tiny minority of the membership" that gets involved in these thread is the group of people that can stomach (or take part in) the co-dependent any-excuse-for-a-disagreement, frequently off-topic hate-fest that happens once certain individuals start humping the thread.

So what's up with Trump today, or are we still just talking about other posters here, and who thought GWB and the US military should invade Iraq?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 09:50 AM

"Crooked Hillary" ?? Yeah right, Trump.

Trump adviser orchestrated covert campaign : Manafort worked for Ukraine ruling party.
Jeff Horwitz and Chad Day, Associated Press
Thursday, August 18, 2016

A firm run by Donald Trump's campaign chairman directly orchestrated a covert Washington lobbying operation on behalf of Ukraine's ruling political party, attempting to sway American public opinion in favor of the country's pro-Russian government, emails obtained by The Associated Press show.

Paul Manafort and his deputy, Rick Gates, never disclosed their work as foreign agents as required under federal law.

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Trump-adviser-orchestrated-covert-campaign-9172118.php


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 11:39 AM

Trump is going to exit this race before the election, I suspect there is money on that in Las Vegas. And he'll keep his fund-raising war chest as a payoff for all of his work - for his personal use or organization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 12:13 PM

Oh come on Jeri, Tia's not that bad.....OK he/she has been a deserter but the disagreement seems to have been dealt with and I don't bear grudges......and stop "trolling" :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 12:31 PM

Just for the record this is what all the fuss was about:

Ake- "Mr McGrath, most of the liberals here supported the removal of Saddam in the cause of "freedom and democracy"

A ridiculous assertion with absolutely no substantiation, just more trollery. That's the last I'll write of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 12:33 PM

the disagreement seems to have been dealt with

In a pig's ear, Ake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 12:42 PM

I like being the spoiler and have been proved right many times but Donald is in it to win it.

Mannifort is gone. Brietbart.com under Bannon satisfies the populist conspiracy instincts in Trump and Kelly Ann can brook any stream of consciousness for all potential Trump supporters who expect and respect a modicum of maturity.

Trump may be asked by Maureen Dowd of the NYT "Will the approbation of the American people rectify your record by November?"

Trump responded "I have never been on Probation in my life and my record can never be wrecked! "


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 12:48 PM

And Another Crook Bites The Dust:

New York Times, 19 Aug 2016

Paul Manafort, installed to run Donald J. Trump's operation after the firing of his original campaign manager, handed in his resignation on Friday, signifying the latest tumult to engulf the candidate, whose standing in the polls has steadily dropped since the Republican Party's convention in July.


Note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 01:02 PM

An interesting anti-Trump demonstration: The Emperor's New Clothes (Washington Post)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 01:16 PM

I think it was actually "The Emperor Has No Balls"
And the tweet from the NYC Parks Department: "NYC Parks stands firmly against any unpermitted erection in city parks, no matter how small."

Maybe it's just me, but the face on the statues look too masculine and not pouty enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 01:23 PM

They even got Donald's recent "pivot" right, from orange hair to yellow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 02:08 PM

Woody's take on the Trump family:

    I suppose
    Old Man Trump knows
    Just how much
    Racial Hate
    he stirred up
    In the bloodpot of human hearts
    When he drawed
    That color line
    Here at his
    Eighteen hundred family project ....


Beach Haven ain't my home!
    I just cain't pay this rent!
    My money's down the drain!
    And my soul is badly bent!
    Beach Haven looks like heaven
    Where no black ones come to roam!
    No, no, no! Old Man Trump!
    Old Beach Haven ain't my home!


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/25/woody-guthrie-sang-of-his-contempt-for-his-landlord-donald-trumps-father/

https://theconversation.com/woody-guthrie-old-man-trump-and-a-real-estate-empires-racist-foundations-53026


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Aug 16 - 09:35 PM

Aug. 19 2016 Rachel Maddow

Eugenics and American master race founders are at the heart of the extreme right wing for Trump. In fact the first Trump for President TV ad cites the Center for Immigrant Studies. It appears at the bottom of the screen. Johm Tantum leads this eugenic group among special sperm banks and crazier eugenic racist programs.

Lest you think I am kidding or exaggerating I refer you to the source. It should be available via Maddow's nbc website WITHIN DAYS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 09:54 AM

"Honest Don" Trump, "financial genius":

On the campaign trail, Donald J. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, has sold himself as a businessman who has made billions of dollars and is beholden to no one.

An investigation by The New York Times into the financial maze of Mr. Trump's real estate holdings in the United States reveals that companies he owns have at least $650 million in debt — twice the amount than can be gleaned from public filings he has made as part of his bid for the White House. The Times's inquiry also found that Mr. Trump's fortunes depend deeply on a wide array of financial backers, including one he has cited in attacks during his campaign.

For example, an office building on Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, of which Mr. Trump is part owner, carries a $950 million loan. Among the lenders: the Bank of China, one of the largest banks in a country that Mr. Trump has railed against as an economic foe of the United States, and Goldman Sachs, a financial institution he has said controls Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee.

Beyond finding that companies owned by Mr. Trump had debts of at least $650 million, The Times discovered that a substantial portion of his wealth is tied up in three passive partnerships that owe an additional $2 billion to a string of lenders.

Trump's opaque portfolio of business ties make him potentially vulnerable to the demands of banks, and to business people in the United States and abroad, said Professor Painter, rthe chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/donald-trump-debt.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 03:57 AM

The White House ethics lawyer under GWB?

Streuth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 10:17 AM

Yeah, Stu - if Painter sez that Trump is a piece of crap, guess you'd better believe him!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 06:02 PM

The puzzling thing to outsiders is that most time politicians manage to present themselves in a superficially appealing way. You might not like them yourselves, but with a bit of imagination you can see how other people might. Not necessarily personally likable sometimes, but impressive.

But Trump, you'd run screaming down the street if you met him. He's so obviously a wrong 'un. The old question people ask of politicians is "would you buy a used car off this man?" Forget the politics - would any sane person buy a used car from Donald Trump?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 06:28 PM

would any sane person

Therein lies the problem. Insanity would be necessary in order to believe 99% of what Trump spews. Yet millions do.........


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: mkebenn
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 08:14 AM

Millions of white people, Greg. Thank God we're no longer a majority. Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 08:21 AM

What a great incentive for non-whites to vote for Trump:

"What Have You Got to Lose"

Inspirational!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: mkebenn
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 01:31 PM

I believe they are intelligent enough to know. Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 06:11 PM

I believe they are intelligent enough to know.

Err.... but who then are "they"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 02:46 AM

Interesting program on today's Fresh Air program on National Public Radio today:


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: mkebenn
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 08:45 AM

Greg. Everybody else, regardless of race or greed who can see that Trump is a caricature of a candidate, not a real person. He belongs in the barnyard of "Animal Farm" Mike


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 09:51 AM

It IS an interesting program, Joe. Looks like Trump was an asshole from about age 6 (and possibly earlier) and spent the rest of his life perfecting that role.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 02:18 PM

Greg are you calling Rudolph Giuliani insane?

According to Rudy, Hillary is sick. She is in stage 4 of Multiple Sclerosis evidenced by her anti double vision glasses and frequent collapses. Hillary is holding on by a thread with young blood transfusions and fetal pineal gland infusions (66 fetuses per dose). Cabbalistic and ancient Chinese cures proved fruitless. According to the Protocols of Zion, when she passes the PRESIENCY WOULD NOT PASS TO Tim Kane but to Satan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump again
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 02:40 PM

Greg are you calling Rudolph Giuliani insane?

Absolutely.

And he's also an obnoxious asshole - not in Trump's class, of course, but close.


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