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Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate

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GUEST,pauperback 16 Nov 16 - 11:52 PM
Mr Red 17 Nov 16 - 04:17 AM
Mrrzy 10 Dec 16 - 01:14 PM
Mrrzy 10 Dec 16 - 01:16 PM
bobad 10 Dec 16 - 07:36 PM
bobad 10 Dec 16 - 07:48 PM
bobad 10 Dec 16 - 08:44 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Dec 16 - 09:02 PM
bobad 10 Dec 16 - 09:41 PM
GUEST 11 Dec 16 - 12:16 AM
Will Fly 11 Dec 16 - 06:22 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 16 - 06:38 AM
Steve Gardham 11 Dec 16 - 09:52 AM
GUEST,pauperback 11 Dec 16 - 10:29 AM
GUEST 11 Dec 16 - 11:14 AM
The Sandman 11 Dec 16 - 12:02 PM
The Sandman 11 Dec 16 - 12:05 PM
The Sandman 11 Dec 16 - 12:09 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 16 - 01:33 PM
bobad 11 Dec 16 - 01:53 PM
Steve Gardham 11 Dec 16 - 04:11 PM
Dave Sutherland 11 Dec 16 - 06:21 PM
The Sandman 11 Dec 16 - 07:08 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 16 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,pauperback 11 Dec 16 - 07:39 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 16 - 08:26 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 16 - 08:27 PM
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Will Fly 12 Dec 16 - 04:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 11:52 PM

For those interested -

www.salon.com/2003/07/24/masked_anonymous

Steve Shaw - stop that! you'll go blind


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 04:17 AM

Just read an article that reported how many Dylan references there were in the titles (long titles) of published Scientific papers. About 250 were found, parodies/puns on Dylan lyrics. The same team found 350 ish Beatles references.

It demonstrates that scientists are not all po-faced, and it probably increases readership. Dumbing-down? Yea a bit. But ya gotta laugh.

Smiley face, Smiley face, Singing face. -
Yea Vic, just pointing-out that without telegraphing the joke you come up against those: hard of thinking, hair-trigger people, and they exist a-plenty, even on Mudcat. (excluding me and you, of course).


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 01:14 PM

I didn't understand

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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 01:16 PM

Merde alors. It's a nice article in today's WashPo that is available here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-prize-that-bob-dylan-really-deserves/2016/12/09/c92bbeb8-bd70-11e6-91ee-1adddfe36cbe_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.0a305956fc03


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 07:36 PM

Patti Smith accepted the Nobel prize on behalf of Dylan at the awards ceremony in Stockholm. In place of a speech she sang Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall".

From the New Yorker:

After the presentation of the Nobel Prize in Medicine, to Yoshinori Ohsumi, the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra played Jean Sibelius's "Serenade," from "King Christian II Suite." The measured Swedish commentator who was delivering a polite play-by-play of the proceedings introduced the punk-rock singer Patti Smith by saying, "Soon we will hear music of a different kind. Something that a lot of people probably have heard before." Any haughtiness was surely inadvertent, but there it was: prepare yourselves for a shift toward the popular. Every yahoo on the street knows this one!

Smith was accompanied by the Philharmonic performing a spare and gentle arrangement of Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," orchestrated by Hans Ek, a Swedish conductor. She looked so striking: elegant and calm in a navy blazer and a white collared shirt, her long, silver hair hanging in loose waves, hugging her cheekbones. I started crying almost immediately. She forgot the words to the second verse—or at least became too overwhelmed to voice them—and asked to begin the section again. I cried more. "I'm sorry, I'm so nervous," Smith admitted. The orchestra obliged. The entire performance felt like a fierce and instantaneous corrective to "times like these"—a reiteration of the deep, overwhelming, and practical utility of art to combat pain. In that moment, the mission of the Nobel transcended any of its individual recipients. How plainly glorious to celebrate this work.

Patti Smith - A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 07:48 PM

Bob Dylan's Nobel Prize in Literature banquet speech as read by United States Ambassador to Sweden Azita Raji:

Good evening, everyone. I extend my warmest greetings to the members of the Swedish Academy and to all of the other distinguished guests in attendance tonight.

I'm sorry I can't be with you in person, but please know that I am most definitely with you in spirit and honored to be receiving such a prestigious prize. Being awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature is something I never could have imagined or seen coming. From an early age, I've been familiar with and reading and absorbing the works of those who were deemed worthy of such a distinction: Kipling, Shaw, Thomas Mann, Pearl Buck, Albert Camus, Hemingway. These giants of literature whose works are taught in the schoolroom, housed in libraries around the world and spoken of in reverent tones have always made a deep impression. That I now join the names on such a list is truly beyond words.

I don't know if these men and women ever thought of the Nobel honor for themselves, but I suppose that anyone writing a book, or a poem, or a play anywhere in the world might harbor that secret dream deep down inside. It's probably buried so deep that they don't even know it's there.

If someone had ever told me that I had the slightest chance of winning the Nobel Prize, I would have to think that I'd have about the same odds as standing on the moon. In fact, during the year I was born and for a few years after, there wasn't anyone in the world who was considered good enough to win this Nobel Prize. So, I recognize that I am in very rare company, to say the least.

I was out on the road when I received this surprising news, and it took me more than a few minutes to properly process it. I began to think about William Shakespeare, the great literary figure. I would reckon he thought of himself as a dramatist. The thought that he was writing literature couldn't have entered his head. His words were written for the stage. Meant to be spoken not read. When he was writing Hamlet, I'm sure he was thinking about a lot of different things: "Who're the right actors for these roles?" "How should this be staged?" "Do I really want to set this in Denmark?" His creative vision and ambitions were no doubt at the forefront of his mind, but there were also more mundane matters to consider and deal with. "Is the financing in place?" "Are there enough good seats for my patrons?" "Where am I going to get a human skull?" I would bet that the farthest thing from Shakespeare's mind was the question "Is this literature?"

When I started writing songs as a teenager, and even as I started to achieve some renown for my abilities, my aspirations for these songs only went so far. I thought they could be heard in coffee houses or bars, maybe later in places like Carnegie Hall, the London Palladium. If I was really dreaming big, maybe I could imagine getting to make a record and then hearing my songs on the radio. That was really the big prize in my mind. Making records and hearing your songs on the radio meant that you were reaching a big audience and that you might get to keep doing what you had set out to do.

Well, I've been doing what I set out to do for a long time, now. I've made dozens of records and played thousands of concerts all around the world. But it's my songs that are at the vital center of almost everything I do. They seemed to have found a place in the lives of many people throughout many different cultures and I'm grateful for that.

But there's one thing I must say. As a performer I've played for 50,000 people and I've played for 50 people and I can tell you that it is harder to play for 50 people. 50,000 people have a singular persona, not so with 50. Each person has an individual, separate identity, a world unto themselves. They can perceive things more clearly. Your honesty and how it relates to the depth of your talent is tried. The fact that the Nobel committee is so small is not lost on me.

But, like Shakespeare, I too am often occupied with the pursuit of my creative endeavors and dealing with all aspects of life's mundane matters. "Who are the best musicians for these songs?" "Am I recording in the right studio?" "Is this song in the right key?" Some things never change, even in 400 years.

Not once have I ever had the time to ask myself, "Are my songs literature?"

So, I do thank the Swedish Academy, both for taking the time to consider that very question, and, ultimately, for providing such a wonderful answer.

My best wishes to you all,

Bob Dylan


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 08:44 PM

To all the critics of the choice, especially the sour-grape Brits, this is what the Swedish Academy's literary historian Horace Engdahl had to say about the Committee's selection:


"He gave back to the language of poetry its elevated style, lost since the Romantics," Engdahl said in a speech introducing Dylan's award. "Not to sing of eternities, but to speak of what was happening around us. As if the oracle of Delphi were reading the evening news. Recognizing that revolution by awarding Bob Dylan the Nobel Prize was a decision that seemed daring only beforehand and already seems obvious."

In the face of claims that Dylan was a cheap choice for such a hallowed honor, Engdahl hailed the Minnesota-born songwriter for beating the smart set at its own game—taking an idiom discarded ages ago by the cultural intelligentsia and changing the world with it.

"What brings about the great shifts in the world of literature? Often it is when someone seizes upon a simple, overlooked form, discounted as art in the higher sense, and makes it mutate. Thus, at one point, emerged the modern novel from anecdote and letter, thus arose drama in a new age from high jinx on planks placed on barrels in a marketplace, thus songs in the vernacular dethroned learned Latin poetry…Each time this occurs, our idea of literature changes."

Engdahl called Dylan's rhyming "an alchemical substance that dissolves contexts to create new ones…fusing the languages of the street and the Bible" into songs that beside which "much of the bookish poetry in our world felt anemic.

"The routine song lyrics his colleagues continued to write were like old-fashioned gunpowder following the invention of dynamite."

Engdahl said that Dylan deserved the award for panning "poetry gold" out of the scope of human experience, creating a mosaic of lyrical gems "from what he discovered in heirloom and scrap, in banal rhyme and quick wit, in curses and pious prayers, sweet nothings and crude jokes."

"By means of his oeuvre, Bob Dylan has changed our idea of what poetry can be and how it can work. He is a singer worthy of a place beside the Greeks, beside Ovid, beside the Romantic visionaries, beside the kings and queens of the Blues, beside the forgotten masters of brilliant standards."

Returning his attention to the academy's Dylan detractors, Engdahl bid a gleeful farewell to the old order of things.

"If people in the literary world groan, one must remind them that the gods don't write, they dance and they sing."


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 09:02 PM

At some point I should like you to tell us why anyone on the planet, bar a couple of other second-rate songsmiths, would be suffering from sour grapes as a consequence of Bob's award. I really don't give a stuff who awards him what. He's your hero. Great. He's not mine by a long chalk, but as soon as I express criticism I get a ton of schoolyard yah-boo stuff from the likes of you. Too bad. You could conceivably be wrong about him. Has that ever occurred to you?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 16 - 09:41 PM

Oh, give it a rest Shaw, your superciliousness is tiresome.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:16 AM

Thanks bobad, you are spot on.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:22 AM

What a stupid observation, Bobad. If you happen to like Bob Dylan ad believe in things like Nobel Prizes, then good luck to you. Enjoy them.

As it happens, I couldn't care tuppence about literary prizes, and some of Dylan I like - and some I don't like. So what has any of that got to do with "Brits" and "sour grapes" - and what has it got to do with being "supercilious"?

Just accept that our individual heroes and heroines, if we have any, are just that - individual tastes. No need to open a post with "To all the critics of the choice, etc. etc....".


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:38 AM

Sock puppetry suspected! (only suspected, mods...) 😂


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 09:52 AM

Go, Bobad! That's from a Brit, a died in the wool traddie who never was a Dylan fan, but can appreciate his impact and talent.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 10:29 AM

YooHoo! DYLAN! DYLAN! DYLAN! DYLAN!


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 11:14 AM

"What a Stupid observation Bobad"...Will Fly.
Well, I seriously disagree with you Will Fly. Mr. Shaw has referred to Dylan fans in the following manner long before Bobad made the comment to which you objected.... Mr. Shaw suggested that Fans of Dylan were Self regarding ex hippies, an army of sycophants, self appointed in crowd, poor deluded souls, shallow, uncritical aficinanados and were not familiar with "real" literature. So I do not see that Bobad is the problem. Mr. Shaw, as per usual, came to argue not to discuss and it IS getting very tiresome !


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:02 PM

I agree with Will.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:05 PM

And here is a wonderful poemWiggle, wiggle, wiggle all dressed in green
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle till the moon is blue
Wiggle till the moon sees you
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle in your boots and shoes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, you got nothing to lose
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, like a swarm of bees
Wiggle on your hands and knees
Wiggle to the front, wiggle to the rear
Wiggle till you wiggle right out of here
Wiggle till it opens, wiggle till it shuts
Wiggle till it bites, wiggle till it cuts
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle, you can raise the dead
Wiggle till you're high, wiggle till you're higher
Wiggle till you vomit fire
Wiggle till it whispers, wiggle till it hums
Wiggle till it answers, wiggle till it comes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like satin and silk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a pail of milk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, rattle and shake
Wiggle like a big fat snake


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 12:09 PM

and anther corker
Ballad in Plain D
Bob Dylan
I once loved a girl, her skin it was bronze
With the innocence of a lamb, she was gentle like a fawn
I courted her proudly but now she is gone
Gone as the season she's taken
In a young summer's youth, I stole her away
From her mother and sister, though close did they stay
Each one of them suffering from the failures of their day
With strings of guilt they tried hard to guide us
Of the two sisters, I loved the young
With sensitive instincts, she was the creative one
The constant scrapegoat, she was easily undone
By the jealousy of others around her
For her parasite sister, I had no respect
Bound by her boredom, her pride to protect
Countless visions of the other she'd reflect
As a crutch for her scenes and her society
Myself, for what I did, I cannot be excused
The changes I was going through can't even be used
For the lies that I told her in hopes not to lose
The could-be dream-lover of my lifetime
With unseen consciousness, I possessed in my grip
A magnificent mantelpiece, though its heart being chipped
Noticing not that I'd already slipped
To the sin of love's false security
From silhouetted anger to manufactured peace
Answers of emptiness, voice vacancies
'Till the tombstones of damage read me no questions but, "Please
What's wrong and what's exactly the matter?"
And so it did happen like it could have been foreseen
The timeless explosion of fantasy's dream
At the peak of the night, the king and the queen
Tumbled all down into pieces
"The tragic figure!" her sister did shout
"Leave her alone, god damn you, get out!"
And I in my armor, turning about
And nailing her in the ruins of her pettiness
Beneath a bare light bulb the plaster did pound
Her sister and I in a screaming battleground
And she in between, the victim of sound
Soon shattered as a child to the shadows
All is gone, all is gone, admit it, take flight
I gagged in contradiction, tears blinding my sight
My mind it was mangled, I ran into the night
Leaving all of love's ashes behind me
The wind knocks my window, the room it is wet
The words to say I'm sorry, I haven't found yet
I think of her often and hope whoever she's met
Will be fully aware of how precious she is
Ah, my friends from the prison, they ask unto me
"How good, how good does it feel to be free?"
And I answer them most mysteriously
"Are birds free from the chains of the skyway?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 01:33 PM

Nothing quite like an infestation ABOVE the line of a guest-bobad axis...😂


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 01:53 PM

Nothing quite like an infestation ABOVE the line of a guest-bobad axis...😂

Hey Shaw, Dylan wrote a song about you, it's called "Idiot Wind"


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 04:11 PM

Dick, you keep bleating on about wanting people to explain Dylan's lyrics. Should we then by the same token ask all those abstract artists who won prizes to explain their art?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 06:21 PM

GSS - If you want Ballad in Plain D explaining then I suggest that you read the early pages of the countless biographies written about Bob Dylan; its all in there.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 07:08 PM

i havent bleated on about anything, neither do i need a badly written song explained, i am illustrating some of his gems that got him the prize.
Steve Gardham perhaps you could explain your aggressive post to me. to respond to someone by saying they are bleating on about something is aggressive and flaming, if you said it to me in person in the real world i would tell you in four letter words


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 07:10 PM

"Should we then by the same token ask all those abstract artists who won prizes to explain their art?"

Yes we should. If it looks like bullshit it's down to them, if they want to retain our interest, to explain why it isn't. What is art if it doesn't reach out and grab you by the lapels? Art is about edification, not deliberate obfuscation. The true artist urgently wants to communicate and to enlighten. Enjoy your heaps of twisted metal, your piles of bricks, your dirty bed linen, your sliced sheep, your diamond-encrusted skulls, your "enigmatic" paint splodges, your bleeding heads and your piss flowers. Taking-the-piss flowers, more like.

"Ah, but you only THINK it's a just pile of bricks..." 😂😂😂


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 07:39 PM

HA HA HA HA HA


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:26 PM

Well, Steve, Dick may well be pissing you off with his postings of lyrics, but I'm quite enjoying them. The one you're defending so ardently is doggerel. You defeat your own argument when you suggest that Dick should go and investigate other sources in order to have the words explained to him. When I'm looking at a painting, or listening to a string quartet, or reading a poem, I don't expect to have to go to have it "explained" by somebody else who is, supposedly, a far lesser talent that the artist himself (otherwise he would have written it!). As long as my mind is open, I expect a confrontation with that work of art that is meaningful on some level to me there and then. As I refine my mind and gain experience, I might return to the work later and be enlightened on more levels. But the onus is on the artist to make that initial communication. Good art can edify on many different levels and good art is not created for an in-crowd or for "sophisticated" aficionados. When I say edify, I mean that it should enlighten, not confuse or turn people off. It's about drawing people in to notions that may have been inchoate in their minds, or. Or in their minds at all, but which the artist can untangle. Inane, meaningless ramblings uttered in a tortuous, sinuous voice have a big hill to climb.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:27 PM

Bugger. I meant Dave, not Steve.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 16 - 08:31 PM

"Or not in their minds at all." I'll get this right one of these decades. 😟


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:44 AM

Art is about edification The true artist urgently wants to communicate and to enlighten.

Really?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 04:53 AM

Art with a Purpose, eh?

I agree with much of what you say, Steve S - with one caveat. I do think that the creative impulse and purpose from within an artist can't always be explained, even by the artist him/herself, and there might not be a "goal" as such.

I don't think artists are always motivated by the desire to communicate, though they must be motivated to create, otherwise there wouldn't be any art. Whether they create for an audience or not is down to them, and I suppose you could say that, if it's not intended to be clear then it shouldn't be laid in front of the public. But that's a vexed question when, as we all know, one man's meat, etc...

I'm always reminded of "Ulysses" and "Finegan's Wake" when these debates arise. Read 'em and be enthralled? Read 'em and weep? Depends on your taste.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:17 AM

I could say "don't bother reading "em at all," but then I know what would happen - you'd remind me of that ould Guinness ad that said "I've never tried it and I don't like it!"

If an artist's work isn't communicating, or at least not without a gargantuan effort on the recipient's part, how is the confrontation between artist and layperson going to be achieved? How does anyone know that it's art? Is it really supposed to be reserved for the ultra-refined aficionado?   By the way, I never said that art should be "easy," or even MADE easy, just that there has to be a transaction involved. Fine by me if the artist manages it by by accident. What I'm against is deliberate obstacle-making. That just makes me suspect that the barrier is betraying a hidden emptiness behind the facade. Was Joyce doing that, or was he turning his book into a greater work of art by giving us a struggle? Do we over-interpret? We could argue all day about Joyce but we don't need to be spending all that time on a songsmith who deals largely in near-doggerel. Wouldn't mind betting that he'd agree with that himself.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:38 AM

So when you read Joyce Steve, what did you think he was doing? Challenging you or confronting you, or art they the same thing.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:57 AM

On the strength of Dylans literary gems that i have previously posted. might i suggest it goes to Cumberland Clark[ theDorsetMcGonagle] instead, for this poetic jewel which is on the same level as wiggle wiggle.
'If you go to the Boscombe Arcade
No excitement you'll meet I'm afraid.
You won't find the place is a tax on your strength
Four hundred and forty three feet is its length.
You walk to and fro with a dignified air:
Then you walk fro and to, or you sit on a chair;
And there isn't much else you can do when you're there.'
('Boscombe Arcade')


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:33 AM

Whether he challenges or confronts is just playing with words. Both are means of communication. Which is my point.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:43 AM

So, did you find Joyce obscure in any way, did your reading of him require any moments of stepping back and thinking about his method f communication?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:46 AM

On what are you basing your assumption that I've read him, by the way? And if I don't know who you are I'm not too keen to chat to you. I've been like that on forums for years, you know.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:53 PM

I guess I assumed that if you were commenting on Joyce, you would have read him. As for not knowing who I am, I don't see that it matters as I have asked a fairly reasonable question. But, as you will.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 01:07 PM

Who are you? why be anonymous? do you have an agenda,my name is Dick Miles, what is your name?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 01:38 PM

No, I do not have an agenda. I am being anonymous because the rules here allow me to be so. I know your name is Dick Miles, but I don't know what your point is ..do you ? I have simply asked Steve how he came to comment on James Joyce..nothing more, simple question... yes ?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:40 PM

There is notthing I've said that would indicate whether I've read it or not. Not at all keen on sparring with anonymous guests. I battled for months here against a troll who was operating under two identities. Sadly, he's still around but at least he is semi-outed. Unless he's you. See what I mean? Either reveal yourself or talk to someone else. Free country. Over and out.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:24 PM

<<>>

So Dylan didn't communicate? I wonder what those millions of people who went to concerts and bought the records were getting out of it then?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 05:38 PM

A bit like religion then!


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 06:04 PM

Time out for a musical interlude. This is a humourous Dylan parody that also incorporates Woody Guthrie and Bruce Springsteen, performed by Dan Bern. I think you'll enjoy it.

"Talkin Woody, Bob, Bruce and Dan Blues,"


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:06 PM

If you comment on the intentions of an author it is not unreasonable to assume you have read that author. My anonymity does not negate the question, does it.
In any case, you have denigrated a lot of people who enjoy Bob Dylan, your prerogative... I am simply asking how you draw these conclusion about Joyce. I do read jamesJoyce, so I am simply asking how your reading of him brought you to the opinions you express. Not complicated, just a point for discussion.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:49 PM

I'm glad you enjoy Joyce. You can goad me 'til the cows come home but you are unjustified in assuming that I either have or have not read Joyce. That is pretty obvious from all the posts I've made since the matter was first raised. Your pressing on this matter looks suspicious. I'll take the high road and assume that you are such an aficionado of Joyce that you're dying to share. I used to think that about Beethoven. These days I'm content to indulge without drawing people in.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:28 PM

I am not goading you at all MrShaw, I am simply asking a perfectly honest question.. What in your reading of Joyce led you to make your observations . Good on you for taking the high road, admirable I am sure!. I am not an aficionado of Joyce, I enjoy him, nothing more or less .
In any case, I will ask no further, ,,


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:41 PM

Perfect honesty online involves eschewing anonymity. Not wishing to impugn yours, but you could aspire harder.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: GUEST,rewster
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:42 PM

he fooled us all


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: bobad
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:45 PM

Oops, the link to the Dan Bern song is not right, this should get you there:

"Talkin Woody, Bob, Bruce and Dan Blues,"


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan: Nobel laureate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:52 PM

You can't fool all the people all the time!


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