BS: Our Apology

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:52 PM

Regrets are in order, but not really apologies.

Here's what Michael Moore had to say about that.
You must say this sentence to everyone you meet today: "HILLARY CLINTON WON THE POPULAR VOTE!" The MAJORITY of our fellow Americans preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Period. Fact. If you woke up this morning thinking you live in an effed-up country, you don't. The majority of your fellow Americans wanted Hillary, not Trump. The only reason he's president is because of an arcane, insane, 18th-century idea called the Electoral College. Until we change that, we'll continue to have presidents we didn't elect and didn't want.

You live in a country where a majority of citizens have said they believe there's climate change, they believe women should be paid the same as men, they want a debt-free college education, they don't want us invading countries, they want a raise in the minimum wage and they want a single-payer true universal health care system. None of that has changed. We live in a country where the majority agree with the "liberal" position. We just lack the liberal leadership to make that happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:52 PM

I find it almost beyond comprehension that anyone who claims political awareness could be so easily fooled by a politician blatantly pandering to populist policies. I suppose I am cynical on one hand in that I assume that politicians automatically lie yet just naive to think that others can see through thinly veiled ploys to gain power by telling them what they want to hear. Maybe people get what they deserve but, unfortunately, they drag the rest of humanity down with them.

Sigh.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:42 PM

Fair point Greg, I'm not an American citizen, but I have a friend with dual nationality in North Carolina and she says the folks there are almost all supporting Mr Trump and they are kind, decent people. They don't seem to fit into the template that you present to us.

A lot of people voted on social grounds(according to my friend), they don't like the new morality, attacks on the family and the Church...every day brings another brick from the wall and the backlash has begun.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:32 PM

Bubo citing Haaretz! Its the end of the world.

So Bubo- what's your take on Trumps antisemetic advisor?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: bobad
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:15 PM

Well, at least some good that has come about because of the Trump effect, two Jewish and Muslim groups have formed an alliance to address anti-Muslim bigotry and anti-Semitism in the U.S." and to "protect and expand the rights of religious minorities" in the country.

read more: Haaretz

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 04:58 PM

More importantly, Ake, who the fu*k do you think YOU are?

the people who voted for him do not think for one moment that they have anything to apologise for.

Nor did those who voted for Hitler or Mussolini. Get a frickin grip.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 04:26 PM

Jim, anyone who claims that Mr Farage is "inarticulate", does not deserve a response....he has single handedly laid waste to the whole "liberal" political circus....he's all over Youtube, you can watch his responses to questions on any economic or political subject and they will be factual and very articulate.

A measure of his ability is available in the spite and hatred shown by people like yourself to his success.
When Mr Farage first demonstrated the idiocy of unregulated immigration every political party opposed and denigrated him, now every Party has adopted his views that we need to have control of who, and how many can migrate to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 04:08 PM

"Please accept our most heartfelt apology for what the people of America have done. Words cannot express our remorse."

Who do they think they are
Mr Trump WON the election, I don't agree with his domestic policies, but the people who voted for him do not think for one moment that they have anything to apologise for....they possibly see the defeat of a war mongering corporatist and a corrupt political party which acts against the interests of one of its official candidates as a positive.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 03:02 PM

"patronising in the extreme,"
I do wish I'd placed a bet on who would be the supporters of this obscene monster!!!
It is not patonising - it is a genuine apology for an incredibly bad national mistake - if you have any doubt how bad it was - just read his manifesto of intentions - openly racist and openly divisive.
The self indulgent result will effect us all -
I thought it was a joke this morning when I read that senior Tories are protesting that Theresa May has refused to use Nigel farage as a go between between Britain and Trump!!!
For crying out loud - NIGEL ****** FARAGE - a beer swilling, inarticulate racist moron that the British electorate have rejected - a 'leader' totally incapable of putting together a leadership for his own party!!!
So far, none of Trups apologists have muttered a word of opposition to the descriptions - racist, misogynistic, antisemitic, hate-filled.... any takers Ake - are we being unfair or are you happy with load of garbage leading the most powerful country on the planet?
It would not surprise me in the least if the totally unprecedented street protests didnt turn into an open fight between good and evil - real 'Lord of the Rings stuff!!
I'd buy into that one.
Nad before Ake repeats his inane defence of this cretin - Hitler was elected into power on something that passed for a democratic vote.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 02:47 PM

"it's worth reposting" should be deleted from the first sentence of the OP and moved to the end of my opening sentence. Missed my target. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 02:43 PM

Here is Bev and Jerry's OP again:.

Subject: BS: Our Apology
From: Bev and Jerry - PM
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:44 AM

To all of our friends living outside of America, it's worth reposting:

Please accept our most heartfelt apology for what the people of America have done. Words cannot express our remorse.

Throughout our entire adult lives, we sincerely believed that interpersonal relations in this country were improving. Often times, progress was slow and, at times, we fell back but, on the whole, social justice was winning in America.

But, in 2008, Barack Obama was elected president and the deep-seated hatred for the "other" began to surface. Gradually, more and more intolerance began to be expressed against people of other races, religions, national origins and sexual preference. As the drumbeat of bigotry increased in intensity, Donald Trump saw his opportunity and now we have enshrined our mutual distrust and hatred of others in the highest office in the land.

As if this were not enough, we have unleashed this unstable and ill-equipped personality on the entire world. Our actions will have a profound effect on world trade, global warming, social justice and any progress towards world peace and cooperation for decades.

Once again, we deeply regret what our country has done and we humbly beg your forgiveness.

Bev and Jerry

I don't see any attempt to effect a conciliation. It is exactly what it says it is, a heartfelt apology. Bev and Jerry have done an excellent job of articulating the sadness and embarrassment that millions of decent Americans feel at the election of this regressive jackass who has given people permission to hate those of a different kind again.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 01:33 PM

Some may question whether conciliation was the reason.

Perhaps observation and thoughtful consideration of objective reality was the reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 01:08 PM

I always got the point and I agree about thread drift, but most of the squabbles on this thread concerned the election, the result of which solicited the OP.
The reasons for the OP remain debatable. Some may question whether conciliation was the reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 12:50 PM

"Got the point now?"

I think Will, that might never actually happen. Another thread down the pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 12:21 PM

Will, I thought the OP was patronising in the extreme, how dare they apologise for people who were only exercising their democratic right to vote for whom they please. It seems typical of the elitist mindset which took away the political representation of countless millions.

You don't get my point, do you? It doesn't matter what the OPs did or didn't mean, or how it might be taken by anyone. The point is that to discuss the rights and/or wrongs of an unrelated incident from the Vietnam war and the particular actions or non-actions of a senator in that conflict has sweet FA to do with the thread. Nothing to do with it - is irrelevant to it - doesn't have the slightest link to the original topic.

Got the point now? It's what happens to so many threads on Mudcat - massive drift because a coterie of people can't watch their lips and stick to the topic. Just the same, internecine squabbling by the same few people - over and over again.

It's what makes so much of the Mudcat B.S. section a huge turn-off for many people who don't post down here any more. Anyway, end of my rant and particular drift!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 12:03 PM

how dare they apologise

Because a racist, white-supremecist, misogynist, corrupt, tax-evading, confidence man, sexual predator lying sack of garbage (and his growing cadre of similar undesirables) is now the head of state of "The Greatest Country On Earth", perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 11:49 AM

Well it seems that Hillary has won the popular vote by millions, and that she got more votes than any presidential candidate in history, winners and losers, save Barack Obama. Seems like it's your electoral system you should be apologising for, not what US citizens did!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 11:44 AM

Will, I thought the OP was patronising in the extreme, how dare they apologise for people who were only exercising their democratic right to vote for whom they please. It seems typical of the elitist mindset which took away the political representation of countless millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: bobad
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 11:27 AM

MY version of the tale?? Hardly - but once more Shaw merely jumps in to argue the toss from the stand point of complete and utter ignorance on a subject he knows S.F.A. about

Well, that's Shaw's currency, isn't it? Any facts that contradict his ideology are just someone's "version" - especially if that someone is a Jew and/or a supporter of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 11:10 AM

Do you think that Donuel's lie about John McCain should pass without comment? I certainly don't.

You must do what you think is appropriate, and it's not that which pisses me off - it's the hijacking of a decent, sincere thread by arguments that have nothing to do with it. This is not a personal pop at you or Donuel, Teribus - just my frustration with interpersonal rants by a small group of people popping up on thread after thread - rants which have nothing to do with the thread or the spirit of the thread.

Nail lies by all means - but on a specific thread that deals with the lie. That's my point.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 10:49 AM

"I was pointing out to Teribus that there have been alternative theories as to what happened"

Really? What a pity then that you cannot actually come up with even one of them then isn't it Steve.

Will Fly this came up because Donuel started apologising for stuff that has not even happened and I pulled him up on it. In the 2012 Presidential Election that was when Donuel came out on this forum with the slur against McCain saying that due to his incompetence he was directly responsible for the deaths of 134 US sailors.

"Is it the missile that was fired from the jet Mc Cain was seated in while parked on the deck of the carrier that resulted in a conflagration that's got you holding a grudge" - Donuel - 13 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

OK Will as you yourself have pointed out - "There's a long and detailed technical explanation of the cause of the Forrestal explosions and fire, available on the web - try Wikipedia for a start. It's absolutely clear that McCain had nothing to do with the start of it. Do you think that Donuel's lie about John McCain should pass without comment? I certainly don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 09:51 AM

I'm not going argue the fat for any particular version of that incident. I was pointing out to Teribus that there have been alternative theories as to what happened, and, as there was scope for a cover-up, I feel that condemning Donuel as a liar for not accepting the establishment explanation is a bit strong. That's all. As for thread drift, Will, just look what's happened to my poor poppy thread. But I'm not that bothered. C'est la vie hereabouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 09:40 AM

Here's your boy gain, Ake!
***

A White Nationalist Is The New White House Chief Strategist

Steve Bannon, who stoked the flames of alt-right fury while running Breitbart News, is headed to the presidential inner circle.
11/13/2016

Kim Bellware Reporter, The Huffington Post

Steve Bannon, the Breitbart News Network executive chairman known for having white nationalist views ― and who has himself been accused of anti-Semitism ― was named chief strategist and senior counselor to President-elect Donald Trump on Sunday.

At Breitbart, Bannon helped make the hardline populist website a go-to resource for white nationalists and the alt-right, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups

Breitbart has propagated conspiracy theories, like Planned Parenthood having Nazi ties or Clinton aide Huma Abedin being a spy for Saudi Arabia. The website traffics in misogynist and racist stories; it frames women who push back against harassment or gender bias as weak and incompetent and portrays people of color and immigrants as inherently criminal.

Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) spokesman Adam Jentleson said Trump's choice of Bannon "signals that White Supremacists will be represented at the highest levels in Trump's White House. " "It is easy to see why the KKK views Trump as their champion," he added.

The SPLC and the Anti-Defamation League expressed concern over the appointment as well, with the ADL saying Bannon and "his alt-right are so hostile to core American values."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-bannon-chief-strategist_us_5828e1d4e4b0c4b63b0d33d7


"The next wave of fascism will come not with cattle cars and camps. It will come with a friendly face."
         - Bertram Gross, "Friendly Fascism"

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 09:24 AM

There's a long and detailed technical explanation of the cause of the Forrestal explosions and fire, available on the web - try Wikipedia for a start. It's absolutely clear that McCain had nothing to do with the start of it.

The point is, folks, what on earth has all this to do with a thread which started off quietly and modestly from Bev and Jerry, trying from their hearts to conciliate friends on this forum who might be upset by Trump's election? What indeed?

The answer is: Bugger all. Why do these threads have to get screwed up over and over again by pathetic in-fighting and stupidity - Mudcat a là Mode, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 08:44 AM

Still bullying and blustering and flinging your accusations at everybody on this thread Teribus
What did I tell you about taking your medication.
"It took months of painstaking work and effort undertaken by people who were experts in their technical fields, to come up with the definitive explanation of the chain of events that led to the fire."
Then why do you consistently refuse to link to what you claim?
Until you do, they are no more than opinions
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 07:22 AM

Apologies I didn't deal with the last point made by Shaw:

"and it ill behoves you to call someone a liar just because they demur from your version of the tale. You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Donuel and this issue." - Steve Shaw

Really? Donuel lied about Lt-Cdr John McCain and falsely accused him of being responsible for the deaths of 134 American sailors? Is it acceptable to let the false accusation just stand without challenge - You would probably say yes as you are very good at throwing out baseless accusations then when asked you refuse point blank to provide any substantiation - fortunately, I am pleased to say, I am nothing like you - If someone attempts to state something as the truth that I KNOW to be a lie I will tell then so in no uncertain terms - So far Donuel has not had the decency, honesty or integrity to admit his error and retract his lie.

"it ill behoves you to call someone a liar just because they demur from your version of the tale"

MY version of the tale?? Hardly - but once more Shaw merely jumps in to argue the toss from the stand point of complete and utter ignorance on a subject he knows S.F.A. about - The forensic analysis of the incident undertaken by Rear-Admiral Forsyth Massey USN is what forms what Shaw calls my "version" - It took months of painstaking work and effort undertaken by people who were experts in their technical fields, to come up with the definitive explanation of the chain of events that led to the fire. There have been no alternative explanations, no alternative versions - as Shaw's silence would tend to support.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 06:35 AM

Sorry "Sauron Shall fall"
***** keyboard
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:50 AM

Two nice comments on Trump in the Irish Times this morning
A photoograph of a protester carrying a banner saying "Sauron shell fall" (for Lord of the rings fans.
A wonderful one line comment on the letter page "We shall overcomb"
Just like the Blitz - it brings out the best in people.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 05:42 AM

"And nazi parallels are distasteful and grossly exaggerated and are the result of different opinions ."

Trump has just appointed a hardened anti-semite as his senior advisor. He's about to try and deport 3 million people, who will need to be held somewhere and given the jails won't hold them, I'm guessing we're looking at camps.

Seem familiar?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 04:11 AM

"I fail to see the context of that remark, other than extreme nastiness."
Part of the stereotype Ake - it goes along with making refugees wear armbands when even the Conservative right have abandoned it as a dangerous idea.
You are of a type - "know thyself" - as Polonious was once heard to remark.
Moving on.
I notice Ukip have adapted Trump's slogan to "Make Britain Great Again"
Fascist, Marie LePen has heralded Trumps victory as making possible her "impossible dream" of leading France in the next election.
Nine elections are due in Europe next year and it is predicted that Trump's victory will prove a huge boost to the far-right candidates
Even the near-defunct Ku Klux Clan have planned a rally to celebrate his victory
Can anyone seriously attempt to disassociate The Mayor of Trumpington with the ultra-right?
I would guess we all have a bumpy ride ahead - the situation is volatile.   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 04:04 AM

"Thing is, there are conflicting stories about what really happened." - Steve Shaw

"But there are other versions," - Steve Shaw

Really Steve - Let's hear them and see how they could in any way shape or form fit the line spouted by Donuel that "John McCain was directly responsible for the deaths of 134 sailors on the USS Forrestal"

Fact is Shaw that there is no way at all that that lie can be seriously considered or substantiated. But I am absolutely dying to hear these "other versions" and the "conflicting stories" - my bet is that we will not hear another peep out of you on the subject.

I was in the Navy at the time and we studied the extensive film coverage of the incident as it happened to determine what lessons could be learned. The cause of the fire was firmly and indisputably established and, hate to say this Shaw, but someone sitting in the cockpit of a Douglas A-4 Skyhawk positioned on the Port side of the flight deck of rather a large aircraft carrier could not possibly be responsible for an electrical power surge to the wing station mounted missile pod on a McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II positioned on the Starboard side of the flight deck. Over to you, tell me where in any of that I am in error.





and it ill behoves you to call someone a liar just because they demur from your version of the tale. You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Donuel and this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 16 - 03:34 AM

No Jim, my opposition to "Obamacare" is that many low paid people in the US are finding health care unaffordable. It seems to be a gravy train for the health insurance industry.

"Breed like rabbits" I fail to see the context of that remark, other than extreme nastiness.   I come from a vey poor family who were all hard workers, in my youth big families were common now two children is the norm, but never at any time have I mentioned anything derogator regarding family life.....quite the contrary.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 08:30 PM

"you are a proven weasel Jim,"
And you are a proven distorter of your own beliefs
THat is what you said in the past and that is what I took you to mean
Trump opposed Obamacare and you support him
Obamacare was intended to provide affordable health care to those who cannot afford it.
You have opposed free health in the past, describing it as "relying on benefit culture"
The major opposition to Obamacare is that too many people are using it.
You are now squirming off your past opposition and you have totally ignored everything else I wrote - as you always do.
Let's leave it here - I'm quite happy to let people judge you for what you are and what you have stated endlessly - which I caricatured - as I do often.
I would have been stupid to claim that that is what you actually wrote here - I'm many things, but I'm not that stupid.
"Breed like rabbits" is typical of how you view working people.
TRUMP and the NAZIS
"Donald Trump yesterday tweeted out a campaign image that featured troops in Nazi uniforms alongside a picture of The White House, with the slogan "we need real leadership". He included the hashtag #MakeAmericaGreatAgain along with the tweet."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Andrez
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 08:16 PM

Sigh! The usual suspects bagging each other again and going way off track from the intent of the original posting. Sadly it must be time to close this thread too. Apologies to Bev and Jerry.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 07:25 PM

Hmm. Well it's perfectly fine for you to accept official reports of the Forrestal tragedy, Teribus. A bit like me accepting Shami Chakrabarti's report in a way. Thing is, there are conflicting stories about what really happened. Great, you accept the establishment version. But there are other versions, and it ill behoves you to call someone a liar just because they demur from your version of the tale. You do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Donuel and this issue. How typical of you to aggressively assert that you have the monopoly on the truth of it. There is a chance that you don't..

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 07:07 PM

Well he isn't very nice about moooslims, is he, Pete. But I suppose moooslims ain't Christians, so that's all right then. And where are these riots, pray tell?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 07:00 PM

You find nazi parallels distasteful, Pete but don't seem to mind race hatred used as a political expedient. Interesting set of priorities.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:56 PM

"I am of course against any violence against these people," he wrote. "However, I do think you should yell at them. We want them to feel that everything around them is against them. And we want them to be afraid."

Definitely "grossly exaggerated and the result of a different opinion"

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 06:01 PM

Q I'm sure if Hillary had won under the same system you would not be harping on about one Man one vote . As it happens, I agree that's how it ought to be , and perhaps the system should be changed, but not retrospectively because you don't like the outcome . And then go round rioting . And nazi parallels are distasteful and grossly exaggerated and are the result of different opinions .

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:47 PM

And yet, more Trumpist cockroaches. Sieg Heil Trump!!

------

While all sides of the political spectrum have reported problems, Andrew Anglin, a vocal Trump supporter and a leader of the alt-right movement, called explicitly for intimidation of "brown people" on his neo-Nazi website, The Daily Stormer.

"I am of course against any violence against these people," he wrote. "However, I do think you should yell at them. We want them to feel that everything around them is against them. And we want them to be afraid."

The Southern Poverty Law Center created a web page on Thursday to funnel the reports, and received more than 200 within 24 hours. They also started an online petition, which had more than 35,000 signatures as of Friday, asking Mr. Trump to condemn the behavior.

Which the Trumpshit has not done.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 05:28 PM

" Donuel - 13 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

off message response

Is it the missile that was fired from the jet Mc Cain was seated in while parked on the deck of the carrier that resulted in a conflagration that's got you holding a grudge"

No grudge Donuel, I just do not like people who spread deliberate lies as you have done. John McCain flew a Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, ground attack aircraft and he was sitting in his aircraft when a rocket from wing station of a parked McDonnell Douglas F-4B Phantom II fired and hit the external fuel tank of a Skyhawk parked beside McCain's aircraft. The rocket did not explode but it's motor caused the escaping fuel to ignite which caused the conflagration that resulted in the deaths of 134 sailors. Lt-Cdr John McCain had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 04:38 PM

I'm sorry Jim, but you are simply wrong, here is how you distorted what I said.....

"some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."
Breed like rabbits, the poor, don't they?


Again, here is my post.....
" I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."........you are a proven weasel Jim,
and an ungracious one at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 03:11 PM

"Sorry to see that Jim, here is the quote which you amended to make look racist."
You've got me there twice Ake
"Racist"
I really didn't know that the poor were a "race" - I always thought they were a section of a social class - you live and learn!!
I wonder if that wasn't a Freudian slip on your part - yo know - all blacks, or Asians, or West Indians are.....?
Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
"Amended"
I amended nothing - nor did I attempt to distort what you said..
I paraphrased what you have said in the past (I've already said this - remember "dependency state") and took it too what a logical conclusion with people who hold your views - sort of middle/class cum Tory ones about the poor having too many children.
You don't appear to realise you are a stereotype of the worst aspects of an unequal society - very easy to caricature, which is what I did and all I intended to do.
None of your attitude will ever be "water under the bridge" for me" - your attitude to immigrants, particularly those in dire trouble, has made sure of that.
One of the last jobs I did in London was to make safe the wiring for an Asian customer.
He had had petrol poured though his letterbox and set fire to - his five year old daughter had been burned around the face and lost part of her hair.
While I wouldn't suggest for one moment that you would do such a thing, acts such as this are instigated by people like you who instigate hate with your bigotry and intolerance, so you can excuse me if I prefer to keep a distance between us.
I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that Donald Trump has declared that he will deport between two and three million immigrants
Don't you wish our Govenment had the bottle to do the same??
Jim Carroll

.

.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 01:27 PM

Sorry to see that Jim, here is the quote which you amended to make look racist.
" I see no contradictions, the controversial sections are where costs of obtaining healthcare for some sections of society have tripled , or quadrupled."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 01:01 PM

"Apology accepted Jim, thanks.....water under the bridge...eh?"
Yes thank you -and no
What took you so long?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:34 AM

Apology accepted Jim, thanks.....water under the bridge...eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:19 AM

In case there is a misunderstanding Ake - I don't care one way or the other - I'm far more concerned about your very disturbing politics
I would hate to thing that an independent Scotland could end up with a Donald MacTrump in the shape of yourself.
"but the quotes were definitely not mine"
If you mean the "leftie" one - I know that and have apologised
Can't think of another you might be talking about.
Clarence Darrow - one of my heroes until he defended Leopold and Loeb.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 11:08 AM

off message response

Is it the missile that was fired from the jet Mc Cain was seated in while parked on the deck of the carrier that resulted in a conflagration that's got you holding a grudge or the over 35 votes he cast to deny additional benefits to veterans that has you eternally upset. There are so many other instances that cast him in an honorable light to remember. Nobody is perfect.


the first scenario has happened to millions of kids whose skin crawls to the vociferous hate chants, the rest have a future pov.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:51 AM

No shit Acme!

Jim, lest there be any misunderstanding, I don't wish failing eyesight on you, I am not that sort of person, but at our age failing eyesight is a fact of life.....I suffer the problem myself and understand mistakes can be made, but the quotes were definitely not mine as I think you will see if you take the time to re-read.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM

Clarence Darrow also nailed it with this bit of satire:

When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become President. Now I'm beginning to believe it.