How do you feel about Christmas?

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 20 Dec 99 - 11:42 AM

My favourite thing about christmas is trying to find a gifts that I think people will like. Unfortunately it seems that on my husband's side of the family the children all expect to get money. It just seems really wrong to me. I know that it ensures that they get what they want as they can choose it themselves, but its just too clinical for me. It also means that you can't fluctuate the value of what you give according to good & bad years financially, and you're obliged to match what everyone else is giving them. Takes all the fun out of giving...

Apart from that I love christmas, as its a nice time to get together with family & lark about. On the other hand, my dad has always disliked christmas - and that's fair enough, it doesn't make him a miserable person overall. Sometimes christmas just has bad associations.

Kris

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Dec 99 - 10:23 AM

I bought the big tin of chocolates for the holidays today, and when I got it home, I opened it, just to make sure they weren't poisoned or anything, and on the top, just sitting there was a big 200g bar of chocolate, no promotion on the tin, price tag orlabels or anything. Just an extra big bar of chocolate in on top of an already stuffed tin of chocolates. Little things like that make my Christmas, the small, unexpected and unsolicited things, that bring pleasure to people. I know that I have done things for others this year, without want or need of recognition, I've given money I can ill afford, and time I could have had to myself, on others. I've lost an awful lot this year, with little hope of recompense. A bar of chocolate can't make up for a missed family holiday, or the loss of my job, but it made me feel better. Thank you Cadbury Chocolate.

LTS who is now going to eat herself sick with chocolate!

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MTed
Date: 20 Dec 99 - 12:37 AM

I looked at my post, and may have gotten carried away--as you say, Bill, we all have plenty of things--the roof over the head is important, but there is so much extra stuff under the roof that I can't even remember what all is here unless I am looking right at it--

BB--If you put apple cider and cookies on my front porch, my cat, Felix would eat them before I even knew they were there--he carried off a CC cookie today, in fact--on Thanksgiving, he jumped up on the counter grabbed a turkey drumstick and ran out the back door with it--

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Dec 99 - 12:32 AM

DonM, that was a great post. This is one of the most thought provoking threads we have had in a long time. Thanks to all for the contributions. In my world, God Bless You is the best I can offer. Please accept that it is meant to convey my best wishes to each of you.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 10:46 PM

Neil, if I placed some hot apple cider and home-made chocolate chip cookies out on the front porch of your home, I bet you would come out and have a yummy snack in good cheer.

BB

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 09:26 PM

MTed, well, I don't know what to say. Thought I was just complaining.

Not familiar with Chekov, but I've been getting an idea what its like to feel "extraneous", I think. But for me, I feel like people in my family--my kids and my parents, as it happens--need stuff (I use the term loosely) from me that I am not in a position to provide. It is kind of overwhelming at this time. But this too will pass.

Still, we have a paid-for roof over our heads, vehicles, computers, instruments and all that. It's a source of real puzzlement to me, intellectually--why do we need more things? We have tons of things.

Bill (paid up my ISP bill for a year in advance, just in case...)

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: bbc
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 09:09 PM

Willie-O,

I'm not a bit offended by your statement, but, for me--a Christian--Jesus *is* the reason. I have laughed & cried through this thread. I remember the anticipation & magic of Christmas when I was a child & I remember the joy of helping create that magic for my sons. I also remember feeling disgusted & discouraged, many years, at the ads & decorations & a gimme-gimme attitude in those same kids. There have been years when we were healthy & financially solvent. There have also been years when I was unemployed & divorced & things just didn't match up to the Hallmark ideal. Through it all, though, there has been a constant that has kept me on course--we have been in church (as we are, regularly, throughout the year) to celebrate the birth of our Savior & the gift of His life. Good times or bad times, that has been the gift that really counts. So often, we get swept away by our emotions, when what we really need to do is use our minds & remember the things that are important.

This happens to be a good year. I am employed in a fairly good job; my kids are home & healthy; I am loved. I am thankful for those things & am trying to pass on that plenty to ease the lives of some who are *not* in such a good place. If we think, though, we *all* have something for which to give thanks.

wishing you all a meaningful holiday season & your best year ever in 2000,

love,

Barbara

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 01:17 PM

In the other thread about last minute Christmas gift ideas, I mentioned that my favorite gift was an "invitational." My husband invited a circle of musicians over for an evening of music, and it was a treat for all of us. I love to give, but this was also a great thing to get.

I wasn't going to post to this thread because my feelings about Christmas time are so complex, but I do love the season. The giving and getting, the decorations, the music, the crowds in the malls, the frantic pace, special foods, everything except the nostalgia for Christmases past when folks were together that are no longer here.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MTed
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 12:57 PM

I have yet another thought--you have really hit home hard, Willie-O, because you bring up something that no one else really has--and that is not the obsession to get presents, or the great commercialization of Christmas--it is our need to give--

I didn't notice one person on this list who talked about the material things that they wanted, everyone talked about giving--

We are obsessed with giving--the business world just plays into it--the kids just play into it--

I have an old book somewhere, a book called "The Real Diary of a Real Boy" by Harry Shute--it was written before the turn of the century, in a small town in Hew Hampshire--he talks about Christmas and how he got a pocket knife and an orange and a new pair of socks, or something, he felt like he had done real well.

The expectations have increased because we all have fostered them by giving compusively--encouraging kids and others to have increased expectations, and then killing ourselves trying to fullfill them--

Even those of you who are doing charitable things our living out the urge to give--do your homeless need only at christmas? Do the shut-ins and institutionalixed need songs and stories only at Christmas?---I venture not, but you, like me, feel a strong need to give of yourself at this time--

Willie-O, I am disabled, I received a traumatic brain injury in a peculiar accident, about twelve years ago, and suffered some permanent neurological damage--I can still do work, but not on the kind of schedule that jobs demand--I can still play my instrument, but I have some motor and cognitive impairments that create unexpecte obstacles, so I don't play out much anymore--

The thing is that, like you, I feel a need inside of me to give--though no one is asking me for anything--and, since I can no longer play the role, I feel very much like Checkov's "Extraneous Man"--

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Dec 99 - 12:17 AM

This thread has so many ups and downs in it, I don't know what I think any more. I'm too broke to enjoy it being Christmas, since I just blew off a whole fall's work via an arm injury. (Now I'm working again, ironically, so I don't have time to make presents! I'll pay a couple of bills this week, but my daughter sure isn't going to get her camcorder...I don't know what bothers me more, that they won't be getting fancy presents or that they know not to ask...)

And at the risk of offending all my Christian friends here, Jesus is not "the reason for the season", not for me and not for most of the world. The season doesn't need a reason. You can celebrate whatever you like, but it's sure interesting that so many different faiths and belief systems place significance on this time of year.

Good will among all folk would be a good place to start, I guess. Price is right too.

Bill C

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 10:00 PM

I am finishing the best year I have ever had in the Silver jewelry business. I can stop making pieces right now and the total of not yet picked up orders is greater than the reciepts to date. For a craft business that is part time that is pretty OK turn around for my time.

My family and I will enjoy a good Christmas morning this year just as we did last year. The goodness that this income buys me and my family is balanced against the goodness it allows me to give to others with it. The little kid who wants a ring or a bracelet for Mom or Sis and hasn't quite the money for both will as likely find a 2 for 1 sale going on when the crowd around the table is small. I give away as many earrings as I sell it seems and the smiles on little girls faces some how balance the books.

$10.00 buys a couple cans of soup and sauce at the grocery for the food pantry at church, but $10.00 buys a case of soup or sauce at Syracuse Damaged Frieght. If I spend it right the money my business makes allows me to, at last, do some thing for others aswell as for myself.

There was a time some few years ago when the boatyard went bellie up and I was injured and couldn't work. Cases of food and some clothes found the way to our front door that December from an unseen hand. The clothes fit and the food was enough for a month. Christmas would have been small indeed where it not for the Food Pantry at the Church and a large family around us that helped with what it could. Now I can finally return the favors and gladly so because of the commercial Christmas season.

I make more than 30% of my annual profit at this time of year but its that profit that allows me to be giving to the extent that I am. I would give more if I could and some of my fiends say we give too much. But then they have never been on the needing side of things so I don't guess they fully understand the giving side as yet.

If there seems an edge to this message its because there is. We can't lump everyone in to a group anymore. Its not fair to say that Christmas is too commercial and aim it at every merchant that is in business. Every Wal-mart is still run by one manager who may or may not have giving or sharing soul. But we do a disservice to the ones that have by lumping them in with the ones that haven't. The greatest good is done by individual acts of kindness and this I truly believe. Because somebody was good me and my family a few years back has shone me the importance of sharing that kindness, and passing it on. I'll continue to do so.

Don

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MAG
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 03:41 PM

I just heard some Noel Sing We Clear stuff on the local folk show (Dan Maher). Roberts and Barrand and some others. wonderful stuff.

(I'm a storyteller; I love myth.)

MAG, whoe hard drive got yanked out for an upgrade suddenly yesterday and is posting from off list)

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 03:13 PM

That clicky thing again - here's the URL in clear

http://www.macgrath.freeserve.co.uk/Songlists/man%20with%20a%20mandolin.htm#Paper chains.

And here is another effort to link it properly:

Paper Chains

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 03:10 PM

Anne, who's been married to me for 35 years, came up and read this thread, and said now she understood why I was spending so much time with this Mudcat.

The thing about Christmas is that at the same thing it is a wonderful time and a terrible time. It brings everything to a head.

Christmas is about a good time coming in the middle of a hard time. "In the bleak midwinter". "See amid the winter snow." "To save us all from Satan's power, when we were gone astray."

That's the same quality that you get in the secular stories that have become attached to Christmas, such as "A Christmas Carol" and "It's a Wonderful Life". Or a book I always try to read a bit of before Chrustmas, "The Dean's Watch" by Elizabeth Goudge.

I think I'm going to put this thread in the same place I keep those.

Here's a Christmas song I wrote:

Paper Chains

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 11:51 AM

Like I said a while ago in this thread, it doesn't matter if you believe any of it, as long as you act in the spirit of it. Peace on Earth, goodwill to all. As you do to the least of ye, so you do to me. Suffer unto me the little children..... Judge not, lest ye be judged. I can go with that.

KathWestra, there is this huge man in Michigan that loves you to pieces..........but I guess you know that already. Merry Christmas, my dear friend.

Big Mick

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 11:41 AM

Oh, Larry, you are a gem. Goodonya and thanks for telling us about that. Just goes to show there's heart in the big apple, too!

luvyaKat

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 10:26 AM

PS My priest would say, do the above in the spirit of Christ. I think Christ would say, to hell with that, do it because it feels so good to do...
Pax
Larry

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 99 - 10:24 AM

I read most of these and it does not present a great picture of what Christmas has come to be. Let me share with you guys a little recipie for feeling good during this time of year, especially if you live in a cold place with a lot of homeless people.
I have always taken a little time to sit and get to know the folks who live on my doorstep, and have no other place to go. Many have become long time treasued friends wiether or not they get off the street. Several native brothers and sisters have taught me everything thing from snatches of native language to how to make native archery tackle! One, who got off the streets led me into my work in Federal Indian law. Some years back, I began taking whatever christmas bonus I got, and bought thermal underwear, a real life saver for those on the streets, and my wife and I would spend about a week around Christmas seeking out folks who needed them. If it was a warm winter we would wait a while, so the guys wouldnt sell the undies for anything they wanted more but needed less. When I was in law school, I organised this through student clubs and we were able to do this on a bigger scale. We always get the goods down at seconds shops on Delancy Street. Now, seconds, for those not in the know, are not second hand, but new packaged stuff, that might have a small flaw, like a dropped thread. I have never been able to find a flaw in them, and they are often less than half price, so much more warmth for the buck.
It makes for a very rewarding time, lots of real fun, and you feel much better about yourself than you have a right to do. One memory I always treasure is of Tommy, a golden golves boxer in the sixties, who fried his brains on some drug or another, and has trouble making coherant sentences. One cold day, near the end of the winter, Tommy staggered up the street to me and screamed one silable at a time, with a look of agony, trying to get the message out. THHHH AAANNK YY YY YYOU PROFESSOR (the guys always called me that cause i was always in school for years). He was pulling the sleave of his thermal underwear out from under his coat to show me that he had kept warm in them through the winter and still had them. It was the only full sentence I had heard from him in decades.
Forget Pok e man, give where it is needed and feel great
Larry

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 05:45 PM

Lets cut to the chase.. dump all that dogma and get down to the brass tacks. The most powerful force in the universe is love. It is less of an emotion and more of an energy, like light or magnetism. It is the force that created the universe, and the one that holds it together. Relegion aside, Jesus taught that the way back to the creator is love. For the creator is love.
I dont buy all that organized relegion stuff, but, to look around you and check out the wonders of this world, and say there is no god, is like getting up from a banquet, and saying, there is no cook.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Caitrin
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 04:49 PM

Thanks, kat and Bill.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 04:26 PM

Let's agree to disagree, Gentleman Joe. I don't think we fundamentally disagree on finding the meaning for yourself and going with it, and bag what you don't.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 04:13 PM

Well, you may be correct, but your explanation misses all the nuances, MAG. I think I'd prefer to say that it's a wonderful story that has given wonder and inspiration to people for generations upon generations. You can call it myth, and that would be correct - but mythology is is something of infinite value, the way we humans approach an understanding of things we cannot understand. I've got a degree in Theology and what I think is a pretty realistic view about the origin of the Scriptures - and I guess I wouldn't argue with you about the so-called "facts." Nonetheless, although I doubt it happened exactly at that location and in exactly the way the Scriptures describe it, I still found it quite inspiring last month when I went into the cave under the basilica in Bethlehem, singing Christmas carols with my friends.
Rather than tearing myth apart for the purpose of refuting it and winning an empty victory against those who hold it sacred, it may be valuable to look at the meaning behind the myth and the way the myth has inspired people.
Whatever we believe, I wish peace and good will for all of us. I think that's the meaning behind the story.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 02:32 PM

EDverybody knows all that stuff in the Gospels was grafted on long after the historical Jesus died, right? Being born in Bethlehem to retroactively make him fit the prophecies and all? The Wise Men? The virgin birth? all this Hellenistic stuff?

Me, the one thing we know is that the sun turns around and the days start getting longer. The light grows. Whatever it has come to mean for you, cool. The extreme fundies are actually right when they refuse to celebrate xmas because it is "pagan" derived. gotta go.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 02:07 PM

One who is loved is never really alone...hear? and you are loved Kathy W.
This thing about seeing his star in the east, I always thought that meant that THEY were in the east when they saw the star??

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: KathWestra
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 12:23 PM

Well, after lurking here for a few days, I feel the need to add my voice -- one of some ambivalence about the season.

On the one hand -- the one that sometimes just wishes Christmas would go away -- are all the things people have talked about in earlier posts to this thread: the loss of my mom, who loved Christmas and whose joy at making it special for me and others was contagious, and whose absence leaves a big hole; the fact that I am alone, when I wish there were someone special with whom I could share my life -- my aloneness thrown into high relief by the fact that my closest friends are married, as I once was, with families. Just finding someone to do things with (like bake cookies) is hard when everyone is swallowed up by their own "to do" lists. The commercialism. The "entitled" approach to gift-giving and -getting. The fact that people don't bother to say thank-you and sometimes don't even seem to notice that you've gone to a lot of trouble to find them a really neat gift.

But, on the other hand, as Tevye would say...

There are abundant signs of true goodness that give me great hope that the true spirit of the season -- of a Light stronger than the encroaching darkness -- is alive and well. Read the story in Kat's post, and Mick's link to his own Christmas story. Mick's post was one of the first things I read on the 'Cat, and one of the reasons I knew I'd found a very special community here. I have a warm home -- and even own a teensy part of it. I have a good job that pays me well. I am healthy. I have love for my friends, and friends who love me. My dad is still alive, relatively healthy, and coming to see me next Wednesday. Centuries of Christmases have been the inspiration for some of the most glorious music there is. I will listen with great joy to Bach's Christmas cantatas, to the familiar carols, and to the Christmas Eve service of lessons and carols from King's College in Cambridge. I will play Maddy Prior's "Tapestry of Carols" many times, to hear her soaring voice sing my favorite version of "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear." And I will sing along, giving thanks that I have ears to hear and a voice to sing.

Wishing all of you the gifts that really matter: love, health, music, friends, a sense of belonging, and eyes to see a world of goodness, hope, and possibility.

With love, Kathy

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From:
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 11:18 AM

Wesley,

We are celebrating those Zoroastrians Magi who were following a star in the East, never mind the fact that Bethlehem and environs are West of Persia, and brought gifts--this story, as dramatic as it is, never was very clear to me until I found out that, when the religious leader in a society that believes in reincarnation dies, they select some wisemen to go out and find the new reincarnation of their leader--

Zoroastrians believed in the division of the world between gods of light and darkness, who, I think, were Ahura Mazda and Ahriman, and that there was a toatlity that transcended them both--

I mention this because our Christmas tradition, complete with the holiday date, were taken from the Roman cult of Mithras, which was their adaptation of the Zoroastrianism--

The holiday was called "Natalis Invictis Solis"(Birth of the Invincible Sun)--

I mention this all because this holiday seems to bring out both the darkest and the brightist sides of the human experience--I am really overwhelmed by the stories here, both dark and light--

Kat--thanks for the birthday wishes!!

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 10:42 AM

Another thought I had -

I wonder about the over commercialization of Christmas. Why is it that we spend all the money we have and then max out our credit cards to celibrate the birth of someone { whether you believe in him or not } who lived his life in vertual poverty. I'm no scholar but I can't find a mention of Christ owning any possesions at all except for the clothes on his back. As usual I can come up with questions and no answers.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 09:31 AM

JOE OFFER FOR KING..LETS HEAR IT..

Markf that chorus goes..
Thank you for the honor of your company
The music was as sweet as the good red wine
Thanks for the company, thanks for the harmony
I'm here to say the honor was all mine.

Thanks to Tom Paxton

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Magpie
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 08:54 AM

I love it! To me it's got nothing to do with religion, but I find it a perfect time for a celebration! The days are getting longer, there's nice, clean snow covering up all the muck of autumn, my son comes home from school CLEAN, not muddy, and it's just plain nice!

I also find it a perfect time for nice indoor activities. It's too cold and dark to spend too much time outdoors, so why not spend the coldest, longest and darkest days making it nice for your friends and family?

I actually enjoy buying Christmas presents. I enjoy the frantic bustle of busy shops, Christmas decorations, lights and carols. I enjoy the anticipation of seeing my loved ones opening their gifts, not to mention opening my own. Mind you, I'm not rich or anything, and it's sometimes a bit of a burden financially, but what the heck, I like it!

I know a lot of people find it a nightmare. They dread the crazed spending of money, the demands for bigger and more expecive gifts. If they hate it that much, why do they go along with it then?!? Their kids won't love them anymore just because of expencive gifts! Kids won't learn to respect their parents just because they give them whatever they want. In my opinion, kids who get what they want are taught that their demanding ways are accepted. Parents with spoiled kids can blame themselves! They made them that way.

I refuse to let these people get to me. I LIKE Christmas. I like buying and receiving gifts, I enjoy decorating the house, eating wonderful food, and spending time with my son, watching the anticipation in his eyes.

To all the people I meet who try to convince me that Christmas is horrible, I have one thing to say: Let me keep my (childish) enthusiasm for the season! It won't harm them if I enjoy Christmas! But it would harm me if I were to dread it as much as they do!

Merry Christmas to you all!

Magpie

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Neil Lowe
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 07:59 AM

What's supposed to be a joyous and festive celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, the Christian's model for human behavior, salvation and spiritualness....has become a stressful and frustrating battle for parking spaces and the last Tickle Me Elmo doll on the shelf. Traffic is horrendous, the malls are jammed....my inclination is to go into seclusion a day or two after Thanksgiving and emerge sometime in mid-January.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 07:00 AM

One thing that keeps us going through the festive season is our informal prize for the most nauseous newsletter received within the family from people we've almost forgotten telling us news about people we've never met! Usually their children discover a cure for cancer at 3, play ten musical instruments to conservetoire standard by 4, graduate PhD with honours by 6, make their first million at 7...you get the picture.
Why do none of them tell of glue-sniffing,bed-wetting, shoplifting, school exclusion or something really interesting?!
Roger the Cynic.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Len Wallace
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 05:54 AM

My fondest memories of Xmas as a kid was the morning when my father would wake my sister and myself up with his Russian accented impression of Santa Claus - "Ho Ho Ho! Santa Claus eez com and brink presentz!"

Sharing gifts, getting the house ready for family friends to come for dinner. My dad would inevitably get tipsy, my mom would be in a constant fuss and I'd be forced to drag out the accordion, my mom grabbing the mandolin. Then everyone singing Xmas carols followed by Russian revolutionary songs!

Now, much older and wiser and poorer, I love the idea of Xmas, still put up a tree and wear a button onmy lapel that says "Xmas is a Capitalist Plot!"

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: SingsIrish Songs
Date: 17 Dec 99 - 04:49 AM

I haven't had time to read thoroughly all the current posts to this thread, but I'm saving it to read later offline....

I love Christmas time. Love the story of the first Christmas--the birthday of the Christ Child. Love the (religious) Christmas songs, the secular ones as well...Love decorating...

The shopping, if I am smart, I start well in advance so it doesn't take too much away from the real meaning of this time of year. Bargains, sales events, etc. have gotten too much a focus for the world in general and we lose track on the REAL meaning of GIVING...

I love the memories from years past. The fun of my childhood Christmases complete with letters to and from Santa (that my Dad made photocopies of for my sister and myself to read through)...

How many of you know that Rudolph loves radishes???? And one year, before the willow tree was cut down in my parent's back yard, Dasher came in a bit too low and clipped the top of it and Santa almost lost his hat! There were a few branches in the yard that morning to prove it!!!!!

I love remembering when my Grandfather would come stay over a few nights during Christmas...and I always seemed to sit on his hat when coming back from Communion at Christmas Eve Mass....Then in the evenings the harmonicas and ukulele and tape recorder and songbooks would come out and we'd have a singalong in the kitchen. Sometimes my Mom would play the organ and we'd sing in the livingroom. And listening Christmas morning for "Pop" as we called him, to make his way downstairs and my sister and I would soon follow. We'd bypass the presents (obviously we were a little bit older) and have cookies and milk (coffee for Pop)!

Then there are the memories of gift opening in the morning. Lot's of fun!

In the last several years--say about 10 or so, the Christmas season has become a sentimental time--often bringing tears to my eyes. Happy memories of loved ones who have passed away flood my mind...but despite missing these people, it is a very happy time!

And now that I have a little boy of my own, Christmas takes on a whole new meaning. He is two this year and is really interested in the tree, manger, Santa. So this will prove to be an exciting Christmas!

I've got new tapes for the video camera! More memories to capture and have for years to come...

I LOVE CHRISTMAS!

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!

Mary

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 11:51 PM

I've been calling the people I really wanna talk to, like today my 80 year old aunt; sending out a very few solstice cards; practicing a piece for the annual solstice party here; and luxuriating in the thought of a four day weekend to pull out my dusty kena and maybe my bodhran and pretend I still know how to play them. And play Christmas Revels (Langstaff version) and an album of christmas stuff put out awhile ago by an ad hoc chicago group.

The Mannheim Steamroller/Vince Guaraldi fan is long out of my life and I unplugged the christmas machine many many years ago. I have pretty lights, but haven't gotten them up this year and probably won't. When I do, cool.

Last Sunday the new pastor was ordained in my UU church; now THAT was a party!

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 11:43 PM

What Kat says goes double for me Caitrin. And what the world needs is more articulate seventeen year old idealists! (More in numbers I mean...)

As for me I have not gotten much holiday spirit yet...just looked up at the calendar and got quite a shock...

Bill C

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 10:47 PM

Well, I missed yours, too, Caitrin. Nevermind the humbuggery *bg*, you just keep up that Spirit and have fun, oh, and the real world? Forget about it, refuse to grow up and join the rest of us, darlin'!

luvyaKat

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 10:31 PM

Joe and Alice, sorry I was writing when you both posted. Joe, your first post was well-said and your second is wonderfully put. Thank you, friend. Alice, what a perfectly lovely and loving way to share. It is so important for people in places like hospitals and nursing homes to have living things around them.

And, MTed? Nobody's said it yet, so I will, early, regardless of how you feel about it HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! and I promise not to send you any broken toys!**BG**

luvya'llKatwhoisfgrateFULLforeveryday,butwishesheroneandahalfyearoldgrandsonswerehere!

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Caitrin
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 10:29 PM

MTed, I guess I just have to excuse myself as a seventeen year old idealist. This is my last Christmas as a real kid...after this year, I'll be expected to move on into the "real world", despite the fact that I'll still be in school. Christmas has always been a happy time for me, and I guess I wanted to try to share some of that joy with others here. For those of you who are having difficult times, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
A happy celebration to you all.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: bunkerhill
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:52 PM

Oh, Ted, who started this thread, you make a grown man want to cry. Resolved, after reading thread: 1. On Dec. 24 I'll be in church, holding hands with a bunch of strangers and trying to figure out how to balance a lighted candle while singing "Silent Night" 2. I'll be checking in at the 'cat on friends I never knew I had, asking for a chorus of "I'm here to say the pleasure was all mine" (be a good 'catter and supply the correct title) or the Carl Williams song "It's A Pleasure to Know You" (ditto).

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:49 PM

Like Musicman, we are celebrating a Christmas of firsts: our first without my mom, who died the day after MM lost his wife. It will seem strange as she loved Christmas and it was very imporant, for her, for us to be together, even when some of us didn't want to be. I felt a bit of distance about it all when I moved East and didn't share Christmas with her and the rest of my family for ten years, but coming back 6 years ago and spending about three of those with her, were lovely and reminded me of all the fun we used to have.

Curiously enough, I have more of the seasonl spirit this year than last, I think because I had a feeling last year would be her last Christmas with us and so it was sadder. It is also because my youngest daughter is finally my friend, again. As equal adults, she and I are enjoying one another's company and getting along, after I had despaired of her ever coming back into my life in such a way.

I feel a lot of the same things already stated about the commercialism. I REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE. I make almost all of my gifts and spend very little money. I may make Swedish tea rings this year for a few neighbours and friends, as I've always done in the past. I make them look like Christmas wreaths and it was always so much fun to wrap them up and surprise everyone with them. I will also continue to avoid the mall and stores. I will also find a quiet, dark time of everyday to keep my soul and spirit nourished in the quietness of this great spiritual time of year, esp on the Solstice, my favourite day.

I had an encounter the other day; a direct reminder of the good of the human spirit and the reason we have sacred seasons.

I went into my local bead store and there was an elderly woman sitting at the table with old rhinestone jewelry spread out on the table before her. Among the baubles which shone so brightly, she had a few very old, real cameos from Tibet, she said, from before WWII. She was hoping to sell any and all of it.

Her story was so sad and true. She is totally alone, her husband having died of emphysema in Orgeon where they went when the doctors told them he only had about two years left. After he died she came home to Casper. Using the $900 left from his life insurance, she bought herself a small camp trailer/caravan, no bathroom nor running water. After paying it off, she traded up and kept doing that until she finally had a decent, old mobile home to call her own.

She lives off of Social Security, a mere $325 per month. She gets no other benefits, I think because she is too proud to ask.

The day I met Lea, she had just pawned her wedding rings to pay some bills and she had $1.60 left for the rest of the month, including Christmas. She is 76 and in poor health herself. My friend and I were in no position to offer her what we knew her cameos were worth, so we gave her some names of trusted people who might be able to help.

Then my friend, the shop owner, came over and placed a $20 bill in Lea's hand, telling her she was just passing on what she'd received herself when in dire circumstances. Lea was so grateful and stunned, we all had tears running down our faces. Lea gave us each a hug and told us that she loved us. She kept calling us "good girls".

That moment was one of true goodness born of spontaniety, which I believe defines the best of humankind. The selfless giving of my friend, which I would have emulated had I had cash that day; the gratefullness and absolute surprise Lea felt when she gave her the money; the Presence of what I call the Cosmic; all made my heart swell with gratitude and sorrow at the same time for the way this woman was living.

I was effected so profoundly by this experience. It made me even more aware of how angry I've become with my brother, who thinks he has nothing and who does nothing to help hmself. If he wills it, he may be the one who does not survive the loss of mom. The contrast of this person who is so close and prevelant in my life and this stranger whom I had an instant rapport and empathy for was marked.

I made sure to exchange phone numbers with Lea and she gave me her address. This coming week, my daughter and I will take her some groceries for Christmas, as a surprise, and know that we have done a small part in passing on the Spirit of Good which is within us all.

May you all have a blessed and good season of your own choosing. And, thank you all for being such wonderful, caring friends.

I really do feel joyful this year and wish Peace to you all.

Love,

katlaughing

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:25 PM

I take care of and water the plants in our local hospital. It takes about six hours to go around the building from the cancer treatment center, to hospice, to offices, to the ER, to the reception areas and entry ways and lobbies. People stop me all the time and talk to me about how beautiful the plants are, they ask questions about plants they have at home, and they comment on how nice it makes the hospital to have all the healthy living plants there. It seems like the gentlest and most thoughtful people I meet are in the cancer treatment radiation center. These people are there with cancer or waiting for their loved one who is getting treatment. I know for myself, the times in my life when I looked death in the face, not knowing how long I had, or having lost a loved one, the simplest joys and appreciation for whatever peace and beauty can be found become a crystal-clear savoring of the moment. The people I meet in the oncology center are living in the moment, savoring every minute, like the lady today, who talked to me about how shiny green the leaves were on the peace lily. I feel lucky every day that I am still alive, no matter what grey clouds may come. So, I feel lucky to see another Christmas.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:05 PM

There are some really touching stories here, there really are; and I think I'm going to sit down and have a good cry for all the people, especially my friends, who are hurting this Christmas. Then I'm going to sing my heart out and try to be kind and gentle, and do my best to bring joy to people these next two weeks. I wish for warm hearts and happiness and hope and peace for all of us. I usually stick to the music threads, but I was really moved by several of the messages here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Dave
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:51 PM

I spent many a Christmas away from home, in bad weather or good, at sea, or in foreign ports, but never felt that bad about it. My one main Christmas tradition is always to give to the Salvation Army; coins to the kettle with an attendant without uniform, paper money to those in uniform. Give toys to the needy. Watching "A Christmas Carol" with Allister Simm as Scrooge is another good way to remember the real spirit of Christmas. These simple things bring me and my family some pleasure. It's not the gifts, the tree, or the food; its about honouring a small child who changed the world. Visit your friends and hug them, speak kindly to one another, try to right a wrong; and remember there are those who are not afforded these simple luxuries on this planet. One day, soon enough, you will measure the quality of life not by what you owned, or the bad things you did, but by the good you did, and that you were a benefit to others along the way. If you can do that, you need not feel bad about Christmas day at all; it was just one day in your year, preserve it as the best if you can; to honour the child who died for you.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From:
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:46 PM

Today it snowed, and I saw a bunny while I was walking, and I get to go home in a few days, and I got a gingerbread house kit as a present, and I got a letter too. Christmas... it's pretty good, not neccessarily when you get big things, but when you _get_ the little things. Merriness to all!

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:44 PM

Well, it everyone sure has different feelings about Christmas. For those who still enjoy and celebrate Christmas, I salute you. I also want to say that my heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones, or are alone, and get depressed by this wonderful season while others are happy. I wish I could come to all your houses and make Christmas special for you all again. As for the darkness and despair of winter, I leave you with a quote of hope from J.R.R. Tolkien:

"Far above the Ephel Dúath in the West the night-sky was still dim and pale. There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

--Mbo

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:37 PM

I love it!!!!!! Can I be Santa ??? Anything that can help us be happy and giving and full of hope... I beleave in the true spirit of the thing. All my best to all, Guy

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:29 PM

I stopped loving Christmas the day I found out that I was Santa Claus. Seriously,Christmas is difficult if you are alone. 'course we all know that Christmas is run by a big Eastern syndicate.. (Lucy of Peanuts, another reason for sadness) The hard cold facts are..businesses make 30% of their annual profit at this time of the year, and, if they dont make it..they dont make it at all. I wish it would just go away.

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:22 PM

M.Ted, I believe Caitrin wanted to share with us a picture of her Christmas.
A Christmas blessed with the spirit of joy and happiness.

BB

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Musicman
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 08:18 PM

Ouch....

I read through this thread looking at everybodys feelings about Christmas and ponder my own.....

I have not been looking forward to this Christmas for a while..... It will be the first Christmas my daughter (12) and I share without her mom, and we are coming up to the 1st anniversary of her death (jan 16)... Lately, over the past few years, I have been having a real hard time with the commercialism of Christmas. Yes, it started as a celebration of the birth of Jesus, but where has it gone and where is it going? I'm not going to profess my faith here (yes, Christian) but am saddened by the grip that the retail industry has over this 'event'. I HATE going into the shopping malls at this time of year, and avoid it as much as possible. I sometimes wish that we could hole up somewhere, celebrate with those who are dear to us, acknowledge those who have taken care of us throughout the year (THANKYOU MUDCATTERS!!) and give something to those people that it is in our hearts to do so.

Mick, I also have spent alot of time bring the music of the season to those in Hospital.... Actually, it's part of my job, but what a good job, to bring a smile to someone's face through music....

This year I have taken a medical leave from my work (Music Therapist in a local Hospital) because I am unable to perform my duties due to the mix of emotions that affect me this year.... I am taking time to play music (for me), get in shape (lose 30lbs) and most importantly, be there for my daughter, because it's going to be a tough one for us all this time round. Fortunately, my wife's family are all in the area (4 other siblings, 9 neices and nephews) so we will spend Christmas day with them as always.....

I do wish the best of this Christmas season on everyone here, and once again, our little community shines with it's forthrightness from it's members and the caring and compassion that is show by those who 'listen'.

And Rick, I to will be having a guest over the holidays, Night Owl is heading back to Vancouver (from Cape Cod!) to spend a fun-filled Irish New Year's with us....

Well, I think I have said my peace, feeling a bit better for sharing, thanks for listening, and Merry Christmas to all.....

Musicman

Subject: RE: How do you feel about Christmas?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 07:48 PM

How I feel about Christmas was deeply affected by the story I told HERE