BS: blood & soil Nazification of America

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 01:28 PM

3 percenters militia supported by republicans
off the watch list?
/multnomah-county-republicans-formally-allow-militia-groups-to-run security

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 01:35 PM

Swastikas are only illegal in France Austria and Germany

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 01:38 PM

2"whapping the heids aff thisles " ring any bells"
Dinna tak the piss - did ye nae knaw that of the lang term active Klansmen are from emigre Scots
Look out for the documentary,The Klan and the Clans, if t's ever repeated
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 01:41 PM

HOOTS MON
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 02:07 PM

I will kill...

MOST OF THESE GROUPS ESPOUSE HATE


I will not obey

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 02:10 PM

The coming insurrection will have no battlefields

It will look like terrorism

be brave

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 02:16 PM

Jim Carroll says: A yrear ago thes organisations were moribund

I wish that were so, Jim. The alt-right movement has grown steadily through most of the last decade, with the growth of racial hatred against Obama and the provocative speech of FoxNews and the NRA (National Rifle Association). I guess one could blame Obama for giving new life to right-wing extremism.

And I suppose the change in court interpretation of the First Amendment had roots that were similarly contrarian, and may be due in large part to the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU was founded in 1920 to protect the rights of people the government considered to be subversive. It was the ACLU that defended the rights of many on the Left who were affected during the McCarthy era. As time went on, the body of First Amendment court decisions led to the fairly rigid protection of free speech that we have in the U.S. now - and that absolute protection of free speech has become part of American thinking. It's something that Europeans often fail to understand, I think. I think it stems from an age where repression of speech was commonplace in the U.S., despite our First Amendments.

The Executive Director of the ACLU has an interesting article (click) about the organization's position regarding the recent occurrances in Charlottesville.

Note that while the ACLU promotes free speech, it deplores violence. When our free speech results in violence, we've lost. It's my impression that there is an underlying threat of violence in all that the alt-right says and does. I would like to think that is not the case with the Left, but I think we have to admit that sometimes we have failed, and some of those on our fringe have used demonstrations as an opportunity for violence. Nonviolence was a primary aspect of the campaigns of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and he worked hard to maintain the discipline of nonviolence. Even then, there often were accusations from the Right about violence on the part of civil rights demonstrators. After the death of King, the civil rights movement lost its discipline of nonviolence. It really bothered me that the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) turned so strongly toward a violent approach to supporting civil rights and opposing the Vietnam War.

And while I think our recent campaigns opposing Trump have been largely nonviolent, I think we have to admit that there have been a few incidents of violence on the part of people who are supposed to be on "our side" - and that has such a strongly negative effect on our credibility that I sometimes wonder if those incidents were actually caused by right-wingers wanting to make us look bad.

And it really bothers me to think that so many Americans believe Black Lives Matter to be a terrorist organization. I think it is of utmost importance to us to renew our committment to the discipline of nonviolence.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 04:09 PM

I guess one could blame Obama for giving new life to right-wing extremism.

Joe, have you lost your goddamn mind? If you seriously mean that you're a very sick man.

Be that as it may:

"As the country gapes at President Donald Trump's rhetorical reversals on the deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, "The Daily Show" has figured out where he really stands.

"Today is the day Donald Trump became president of the Confederacy," the show wrote on its social media pages."

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 04:19 PM

Greg Joe is correct. The mere fact that Obama existed irked racists no end. Gun sales, white reactionary group memberships and ammo sales were never higher.

Also right is the fact that the ACLU saved the bacon of many professors during the McCarthy era, my dad being one.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 04:40 PM

Joe, By whatever fates of the gods the Congressman shot by the liberal was in his private life a very active white racist. Steve Scalise's personality is a rambunctious Napoleanesque figure with a gentleman's racist agenda. By that I mean he is a short mean bully of a man who has lots of mileage networking folks with his shared hatreds.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 04:51 PM

A Good thoughtful post Joe.

"It's my impression that there is an underlying threat of violence in all that the alt-right says and does. I would like to think that is not the case with the Left, but I think we have to admit that sometimes we have failed, and some of those on our fringe have used demonstrations as an opportunity for violence.

Not just on the fringe I'm afraid.....this forum contains well educated intelligent people mainly of a pretty advanced age.
One would expect circumspect comment here, but there has been expressions of hope for the death of the President, several supporters of terrorism to achieve political change, abuse of anyone who dares to reason against violence by branding them as traitors to the "liberal" cause.   Even Don exhorting us to be brave and go into battle.

You live in a deeply divided country, and it was so long before this presidency, the two wings of the government bird tried to obscure the truth, in fact they used it unashamedly to divide the people and gain political advantage.
If the debate is brought out into the open there is a chance of the unity which is required to avoid violence and civil unrest

Our political parties play the same game but it is becoming redundant, we do not have your history the hatred is not so bitter....we have to all intents and purposes become politically and socially colour blind. Our arguments over immigration have nothing to do with race, only numbers and regulation.

With a little understanding of alternative views the same can happen in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 05:05 PM

" but I think we have to admit that sometimes we have failed,"
You apppear to be clinging to the myth that you are "of the left" having claimed that "you don't have to be of the left to be a socialist
You really are a mixed up cookie
Your views are the most extremist right wing on this forum - and anywhere else, in my expreience
Very few people go on demonstrations to cause violence some of the Anarchist groups did at one time
To demonstrate is to invite violence - from police who deliberately set our to instgate it - the Orange marches have been typical of this, where they bottle up protesters in the path of those they have been protesting against.
The largest demonstration I was ever on was the Grosvenor Square anti-Vietnam Way one in 1968, where I (and Peggy Seeger) watched and photographed as 'demonstrators' hurling plackards were later photographed by us in the police barricades keeping the demonstrators at bay - planted agents provocateurs.
It was interesting to watch the fascists marching in Charlottesville - uniformed and ARMED
And Trump has only just got around to condemning the racists.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 05:48 PM

You're right, Jim. I am neither left nor right. I tend to be in the center, but I usually think my own thoughts.
You should try it sometime.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 05:51 PM

Greg Joe is correct. The mere fact that Obama existed irked racists no end.

No, Don, Joe is NOT fucking right. Obama is NOT RESPONSIBLE.

The mere fact that anyone other than white "Christian" males exist irked- and irks- them no end.

As a wise person on this very forum stated some time ago:

"The cockroaches were always there. Trump just turned on the light."

The RESPONSIBILITY rests exclusively with the KKK, the white supremecists, the "alt-right", the anti-semites, the anti-LGBT, the Nazis and the rest of that sort of human scum.


I guess today is the day that you & Joe became co-Vice-Presidcents of the Confederacy.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 06:05 PM

You want to blame Obama?

These are the scum you should be blaming:

Justin Moore, the grand dragon for the Loyal White Knights of the KKK in Pelham, said he's "sorta glad" a car rammed into a crowd of counterprotesters, killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer.

"I'm sorta glad that them people got hit and I'm glad that girl died," Moore told CBS affiliate WBTV on Tuesday.

Chris Barker, the imperial wizard of the group, agreed with Moore's sentiment. "When a couple of them die, it doesn't bother us," Barker told WBTV.

People who call the Loyal White Knights of the KKK headquarters hear a recorded message praising Fields "Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist ... James Fields hail victory," the recording says. "It's men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again."

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 06:12 PM

Whst would make me laugh, if it wasn't so bloody unfunny, is the idea that these fascist thugs should be protected by some ancient, wooden constitution (put together by racist pro-slave guys, lest we forget) that gives them "the inalienable right to free speech." Joe sez that we on this side of the ocean don't get it. Oh yes we do, only too well. Let me tell you summat, Joe. If any of these thugs, heaven forfend, were to gain power, the very first thing they would do is to ban free speech. General Pinochet didn't allow free speech. General Franco didn't allow free speech. General Batista didn't allow free speech. Fascists' worst enemy is free speech. People who demur in fascist regimes in order to exercise their free speech "disappear" or end up in mass graves or at the bottom of the sea. You are shrugging your shoulders saying that nowt can be done because these people, who would prevent your free speech in a heartbeat, must have their freedom of speech protected. You really couldn't make this up, could you?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 06:43 PM

HOLD YOUR SACK and cough Greg. If asked if Obama was RESPONDSIBLE The answer is indeed no, but reality does present reactions in certain people beyond our control.. like xenophobia, fear, destruction of illusions etc.

I would rather direct outrage where it belongs like Faux news lie network

What's unalienable cannot be taken away or denied. Its most famous use is in the Declaration of Independence, which says people have unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

The 1st amendment; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:02 PM

SHUT YOUR HOLE, Don. Pick up your dictionary, and look up the definition of "blame".

And I am quite familiar with the ACLU, having ben a member for 35+ years - tho I came close to quitting when they defended the Skokie Nazis.

You might also want to ponder the proverbial crowded theater and incitement to violence.

As for outrage I direct where it rightly belongs: at the forementioned human scum and at the piece of shit occupying the White House who encourages, enables, and excuses them.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:29 PM

Jesus! Greg, you're so desperate for a fight you're picking on somebody on YOUR side, and you don't really understand what he's saying.

I really do think that having a black guy for President drove the racists in Congress nuts, and their stonewalling and hatred didn't have as much to do with him being a Democrat as being Black. This shit has been festering under the surface for years, and now that there's a racist in the white house, and a bunch of sycophantic, cowardly Republicans scared shitless to stand against his hate, it's running like wildfire.

But if the Nazi pricks had been forced to be silent and keep their activities secret, how strong and how completely unexpected would their existence be?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:29 PM

I am confident that I will continue to pick my battles and enemies well.

I have no good will for fence sitters, middle of the roaders, agnostic intellectuals and half coward , if you can't beatem joinem, head down citizens without a country.
At least you are not one of those Greg.

If you are not outraged YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION
you're not one of those either.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:41 PM

This coming weekend will determine if the Nazi movement grows its membership like after the Nuremberg choreographed demonstration or end with ashes in their mouth.

Strategic counter planning on short notice is in order.

I suggested another womens march.?!^/

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 07:52 PM

Yeah, Trump and the rise of these hate groups is the dear price we've had to pay for having had a black president. I was working in the American South during the Obama administration and I honestly did not meet many white, working class males who were happy about his presidency and they oft times expressed their discontent with racial epithets (for which I punished a few of them, I support first amendment rights but you did not use the n-word on my jobs). I think Joe misspoke when he wrote "I guess one could blame Obama for giving new life to right-wing extremism.", at least I hope he did. Obama's only part in it was his blackness.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 08:29 PM

Jeri, he's not on my side if he's implying that Obama is responsible for Nazi racist scum and their hateful activities- Talk about blaming the victim.

OF COURSE "having a black guy for President drove the racists in Congress [and elsewhere] nuts" but that's down to THEM - not to Obama.

I'm not "desperate for a fight" - I'd just like things called by their correct names.

The "Nazi Pricks" have never been silent and secret - they're PROUD of what they do and eager to advertize it- and if one didn't know that they were out there & what they were up to, one just wasn't paying attention.

I would direct attention to the Southern Poverty Law Center & any number of other organizations that track, and publish, and have done for decades,what the "alt right"/Nazi/white supremacist /antisemitic scum are up to.

Trump and the rise of these hate groups is the dear price we've had to pay for having had a black president

No, Trump and the rise of these hate groups is the dear price we've had to pay , as a country, for allowing these groups {as well as "infowars, Breibart & associated lying asshole organizations} to operate and proliferate - PRE TRUMP- without calling them out for the scum they are and dealing with them instead of pretending they did not exist in a "post-racial Unied States".

Not to say that a large number of gutless wonder Republicruds weren't a good part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 08:32 PM

No he's not implying that. You don't understand what people are saying, and you're getting furious about the misunderstanding.
Take a break, ok?

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 08:42 PM

Actually one thing Trump said was right. From everything I've seen it wouldn't be fair to call all those people "Neo-Nazis". No need for that "Neo" for a lot of them. They were plain old fashioned Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 08:58 PM

No, Trump and the rise of these hate groups is the dear price we've had to pay , as a country, for allowing these groups {as well as "infowars, Breibart & associated lying asshole organizations} to operate and proliferate - PRE TRUMP- without calling them out for the scum they are and dealing with them instead of pretending they did not exist in a "post-racial Unied States".

Absolutely spot on, Greg. The whole spirit of the free speech mantra in your country has been usurped by the far right. They get to say whatever they like. Free speech, hate speech, all the same thing. But the very first thing a fascist does when he gets power is to curb free speech. Free speech in a fascist country puts you in jail or makes you disappear, yet you defend the right of your native fascists to exercise their free speech. Now there's a laugh. To me, free speech doesn't mean hate speech. It doesn't mean fearmongering speech or intimidating speech. It doesn't mean bigotry speech. I can't think of anything less free than hate, fearmongering, intimidation and bigotry. But that's what it means to these people. They are taking advantage of your vacillating, politically-correct, indecisive behaviour regarding whatever amendment your fossil ancients came up with when they weren't actually throwing crusts to their slaves. After two hundred years your country is still paralysed. Can't move on. You have the most advanced industry in the world but you're shackled by antiquated and bigoted notions about what freedom really means. You can't see that freedom for black people means freedom from racial discrimination, freedom from hatred, freedom from being regarded as inferior. You'd rather regard freedom as been able to say what the bloody hell you like regardless of the hurt you cause. Well that isn't the kind of freedom you should be aspiring toward or defending, because it isn't freedom at all. So, Joe, kindly don't tell us that we don't get it. It's you who doesn't get it, not us.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 09:45 PM

You don't understand what people are saying,

I understand very well what they are saying. Joe said "Obama was to BLAME"& etc. Don. said that Joe was right - Obama was to BLAME.

blame
/blām/
verb
    1.assign responsibility for a fault or wrong.
    synonyms: hold responsible, hold accountable, condemn, accuse,            
noun
    1.responsibility for a fault or wrong.

What you're suggesting is I don't understand what they mean.

The English language can be wonderfully expressive and exact - perhaps you should be asking them to state their ideas more clearly rather than giving me a hard time?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 11:02 PM

Joe said "I guess one could blame Obama..."
So he's saying some people blame Obama, and "I guess one could" equals "I" in your mind.

And Don said (with a blanket [sic] ;) "If asked if Obama was RESPONDSIBLE The answer is indeed no, but reality does present reactions in certain people beyond our control."

My translation of this, just for you, is that Obama isn't responsible, but people will believe what they want to believe.

And this is the last time I'll get hung up explaining English to you.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 11:10 PM

I just posted a serious statement on Facebook for the first time in my life"

"You had people in that ("alt-right") group who were very fine people...the press has treated them very unfairly" Donald Trump.
Every individual in that group chose to appear in solidarity with Klansmen and avowed Nazis. Nazis and White supremists are praising Trump for this response. God help America. I shed tears to think that some I would like to consider friends will defend Trump's appeasement of these people.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Aug 17 - 11:44 PM

Well, gee, I thought I had subjunctivized my statement well enough by saying "I guess one could blame Obama for giving new life to right-wing extremism." But I suppose there's always going to be at least one blood-thirsty idiot around here who's going to jump on anything I have to say. I got attacked one time here for saying that I called Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman (What? Me Worry?) my patron saint, because the attacker apparently thought that having patron saints was an evil religious practice.

I live in a very conservative county in California. I know I'm taking a risk by doing it, but I keep an Obama-Biden bumper sticker on my car to spite my neighbors and fellow parishioners who blame Obama for well-nigh everything they don't like. There are many people in this area who consider an Obama bumper sticker to be good reason for road rage or vandalism. And yes, I do think some of them blame Obama for the upsurge in racism that has taken place in the U.S.

OK, and about that First Amendment. I stated the facts as I understand them. I believe that a series of 20th-century U.S. court decisions moved the country toward a more rigid understanding of freedom of speech, and I think that many of those decisions were in lawsuits filed by the ACLU - most filed for very laudable reasons. And I do believe that Americans in general have a different priority for free speech, than most Europeans have. Notice that I said different, not better or worse. So, that's my understanding of the reality of the concept of freedom of speech in the U.S. and its application.

Please notice that both in this message and above, I expressed only my understanding of the reality, and I did not yet express my opinion of that reality. And yet, I count at least four people who have soundly condemned me, more-or-less for being some sort of violence-promoting Nazi rightwing bigot....and I haven't yet said what my opinion actually is. Silly, aren't they?

So, OK, I guess I'd better state my opinion. I don't keep an out-of-date Obama-Biden sticker on my car because I hate Obama. Of all the Presidents who have held office in my lifetime, he is the one I most admire. He is a wise, balanced, thoughtful man - and a wonderful father and husband and a good person, to boot. And all the hatred that his presidency engendered, caused me great sadness. I found myself in tears a lot during the last week of his presidency, as I watched as many of his farewell speeches as I could find. President Trump might begin to redeem himself in my eyes, if he were to appoint Barack Obama to the Supreme Court (there's that subjunctive again)...

And what do I think about freedom of speech? Well, repression of speech makes me uneasy, whether it be by law or by bullying (as is done so often here at Mudcat). I didn't like it at all when certain people threatened to report Mudcat to some European authority because we "allowed" Ake's homophobic idiocy and the like. That level of control of speech just didn't seem right to me.

But on the other hand, it seems wrong to me for a hate-filled group to be allowed to march across a campus and in front of a synagogue, carrying torches and guns and chanting hateful slogans. I understand the court decisions and I understand the need for freedom of speech - but when that free speech causes fear in the heart of another person, then something's not right.

So, I think that's a question that hasn't been resolved yet. I don't want to see repression of speech, but I also don't want to think people have a right to cause fear in others in the name of free speech.

I suppose it's nice that some of you people think you have all the answers. I don't. I still have lots of questions - and I think that many of your answers are shallow.

Oh, and the other question I haven't been able to answer, is my question about violence committed by those on the Left. Now, although Jim Carroll does not consider me fit to call myself a liberal, my opinions usually seem to fall on that side. I have never voted for a Republican in my life, and I know a lot of Republicans who think I'm a horrible liberal. So, when people on the Left do something wrong, it concerns me. And I think it was wrong for that guy to go shooting Republicans at that baseball park, and for the people in black clothing and masks to commit violence against conservatives. I like to think that liberals believe in tolerance and nonviolence like I do, but maybe I have to admit that may not be so.

So, anyhow, now you have my opinion. You people, go learn about subjunctives, willya? Oh, and do something to learn the difference between reality and opinion, before you choke us all with your moralizing condemnations.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 02:30 AM

What a lot of hatred, and not a white supremacist in sight.
Hatred exists and thrives on division, there is no GOOD reason why organisations like the KKK are allowed to function, but plenty of BAD ones.....the political establishment requires division, one side promoting the free markets and rabid corporatism that it believes in strongly and the other side promoting the egalitarianism and socialism which I knows very well is completely unachievable under the present political system.

Without that hatred engendered by the political establishment, people would work out for themselves what was achievable and necessary to build a fair and workable society.
I agree with most of what you say Joe, other than your charge that I am an idiot and a homophobe.
I oppose homosexual "marriage" and was asked why, I responded by stating that I believe homosexuality to be dangerous and unhealthy and that redefining marriage to accommodate it was wrong.
I then produced the health figures to prove my point.

I have seen nothing on these pages which would make me change that opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 03:36 AM

"Sorry Joe - that was addressed to Ake - certainly not you
He has persistently claimed to be a socalist and sneers at those of us who express genuine socialist views as liberals, but has persisted in expressing views that are to the right of right - on immigration, on the mass murder of young Norwegian people, on homosexuality, on Trump, on.... well everything really.
Outr own, home-grown fascist, as far as I can see
I think you are wrong in blaming Obama too
In order to ban the Klan, they would have had to do something that was bannable - they appear not to have, even now.
It is not illegal to express views on race, nor should it be
In Britain, it has become illegal to incite race hatred publicly
The nearest Britain came to moving on the Klan's counterparts is when the National Front became involved in inciting football violence.
The Front died a death and was replaced by the British Nationalist Party , which began to tailor up its image in order to fight elections - that seems to have died a death too.
The watered down lot, Ukip with only one shot in their magazine keep shooting themselves in the foot, having done the only political damage they are capable of.
All this blaming of former administrations for the Klan is a red-herring
They are now openly on the streets inciting racial violence, Trump has done his best to support them but that is a step too far for even him so he has been forced to condemn them - for the time being and leave it to his media mouthpieces like Ann Coulter.
What is happening now is presenting the only opportunity to quash the Klan
The Klan has featured in a number of security reports on trerrorism in the US and around 2007 were subjected to close scrutiny
Presumably there was not enough evidence to act
Trumpism may well have kicked them into enough activity to make a decent move
Please don't blame fiormer administrations for what is happening now - this is a consequence of electing a raving madman President, nothing more
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 05:06 AM

People could not blame Wall Street fraud for losing there home. They blamed the Sheriff or the bank or the government that allowed them to be stripped of everything and rewarded crooks. Radio and internet right wing hate and conspiracy maestros filled a void and were paid by groups with bigger hate agendas.

It took years but the Nazification process gave people the ability to BLAME someone. Larval nazis had a fresh energy. Not everyone was seduced but a hard core group promised fellowship. New Nazis were being made where there once was a devoted American.

Nazis are the walking dead. Nazis are the Zombie apocalypse, they do not feel pain on all the opioids they take, they were once human. You remember how they were brought into compliance last time.

Perhaps we can try a pharmacological solution this time.
Oxytocin not Oxy.


No one else would think like this but try it, you might like it.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 05:21 AM

Nice summing up of the situation in the White Supremist House here from this morning's Irish Times
Jim Carroll

President gives white supremacists major boost
Glenn Thrush & Maggie Haberman

ANALYSIS
Never has a president gone so far in defending their actions
US president Donald Trump buoyed the white nationalist movement on Tuesday as no president has done in generations, when he equated activ¬ists protesting against racism with the neo-Nazis and white supremacists who rampaged in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend.
Never has he gone as far in defending their actions as he did during a wild, street-corner shouting-match of a news conference in the gilded lobby of Tru mp To wer, angrily asserting that so-called alt-left activists were just as responsible for the bloody confronta¬tion as marchers brandishing swastikas, Confederate battle flags, anti-Semitic banners and "Trump/Pence" signs.
"Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth,"
David Duke, a former Ku Klux Klan leader, wrote in a Twitter post shortly after Trump spoke.
Richard Spencer, a white nationalist leader who participated in the weekend's demon¬strations and vowed to flood Charlottesville with similar protests in the coming weeks, was equally encouraged. "Trump's statement was fair and down to earth," Spencer tweeted.
Governor Terry McAuliffe of Virginia, a Democrat, wasted little time in accusing the president of adding to the divisions that put an unwanted spotlight on the normally peaceful college town. "Neo-Na¬zis, Klansmen and white supremacists came to Charlottesville heavily armed, spewing hatred and looking for a fight," McAuliffe said. "One of them murdered a young woman in an act of domestic terrorism, and two of our finest officers were killed in a tragic accident while serving to protect this community. This was not 'both sides'."

UNPRECEDENTED
No word in the Trump lexicon is as tread-worn as "unprece¬dented". But members of the president's staff, stunned and disheartened, said they never expected to hear such a voluble articulation of opinions that the president had long ex¬pressed in private.
National Economic Council chairman Gary Cohn and treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin, who are Jewish, stood by uncomfortably as the president exacerbated a controversy that has once again engulfed a White House in disarray.
"I've condem ned neo-Nazis," Trump told reporters, who interrupted him repeated¬ly when he seemed to equate the actions of protesters on each side. He spoke of "very fine people on both sides". And of the demonstrators who
No sooner had he delivered the Monday statement than he began railing privately to his staff about the press rallied on Friday night, some chanting racist and anti-Semitic slogans, he said: "You had a lot of people in that group that were there to innocently protest and very legally protest."
Since the 1960s, Republican politicians have made muscular appeals to white voters, especially those in the south, on broad cultural grounds. But as a rule, they have taken a hard line on the party's racist, nativist and anti-Semitic fringe. Ronald Reagan, George H W Bush and George W Bush roundly condemned white supremacists. The Bushes did so again yesterday.
In 1991, the first President Bush took on Duke, who was then seeking the governor's seat in Louisiana, saying: "When someone has so recently endorsed Nazism, it is inconceivable that someone can reasonably aspire to a leadership role in a free society."
But Trump, who has repeatedly said he is not prejudiced, has been equivocal in his public or private statements against white nationalists and other racist organisations.
On Saturday, in his first comments on Charlottesville, Trump blamed the violence on protesters from "many sides". After a storm of criticism over his remarks, Trump's aides persuaded him to moderate his message by assigning explicit blame for the violence on far-right agitators, which led to a stronger denunciation of hate groups, emailed to reporters and attributed to an unnamed "spokesperson".
When that failed to quell the controversy, aides, including Trump's new chief of staff, John Kelly, pressed him to make another public state¬ment. Trump's daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner urged him to take a more moderate stance, according to two people familiar with the situation. But as with so many other critical moments in Trump's presidency, the two were on holidays in Vermont.
Grudgingly, Trump agreed. "Racism is evil," the president said on Monday, delivering a statement from the White House that was written with aides. "Those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, white supremacists and other hate groups," he added, in response to biparti¬san condemnation of his more equivocal statements during the first 48 hours of the crisis.
UNIFYING TONE
But his unifying tone, which his staff characterised as more traditionally presidential, quickly gave way to a more familiar Trump approach. No sooner had he delivered the Monday statement than he began railing privately to his staff about the press. He fumed to aides about how unfairly he was being treated, and ex¬pressed sympathy with non-vio¬lent protesters who he said were defending their "heritage", according to a West Wing official.
He felt he had already given too much ground to his opponents, the official said. Trump prides himself on an unapologetic style he learned from his father Fred Trump, a New York housing developer, and Roy Cohn, a combative lawyer who served as an aide to Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s. During the 2016 presidential campaign, Trump attracted a significant following of white supremacists, expressed
sympathy with white southerners fighting to preserve monuments for Confederate icons and was slow to distance himself from racists like Duke.
The president's fury grew on Monday as members of a White House business council began to resign to protest his reaction to Charlottesville. As usual, Trump found his voice by tweeting angrily about the media. By Tuesday afternoon, Trump's staff sensed the culmination of a familiar cycle: the president was about to revert to his initial, more defiant stance.
As Trump approached the microphone in the lobby of Trump Tower on Tuesday, aides winced at the prospect of an unmediated president. With good reason.
Eric Cantor, a former Republican congressman from Virginia who was a member of GOP leadership, was horrified by what took place in Charlottesville, and said the presi¬dent needed to have spoken out earlier.
"It really did demand a statement at the very begin¬ning," said Cantor, who is Jewish. He added that efforts by the president to equate the actions of the counter-protest¬ers, however violent they may have been, with the neo-Nazis and the driver ofthecarwho killed Heather Heyer were "unacceptable".
"There's no moral equiva¬lence," Cantor said. - (New York Times service)

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 05:24 AM

Can't believe that even Ake would dream of turning this into yet another of his homophobic tirades
Memo- do not underestimate fanaticism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 05:39 AM

Once you know what Oxytocin can do you will be ....... amazed !!

We will need about 62 tons of it, a diverse crowd and locked convention centers or domed arenas coast to coast.

Do not get seduced by the typical techniques to "cure" Zombies.

We should throw Trump into the diversity arena first.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 06:09 AM

Or the goodness of America and the dream of equality, despite the wealth distribution to the to 1%, will heal and insulate us from Nazism;

If the gooness of American Nazis and the dream of racism takes over, the Republican party will be the treason party in historic textbooks.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 06:15 AM

Heather Heyer's mother, Susan Bro, eulogizing her daughter at Heather's memorial service yesterday. Where this woman got the strength, in light of her recent tragic loss, to speak so eloquently and powerfully is beyond me. It makes me think we might come through this okay if we pull together against all this hate. Of course, having a racist and his racist minions in the White House (or in the Golf Club) is going to make it even more difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 06:33 AM

The eulogy was the most profound honest loving expression I have seen.


Hey gilly, what do you think of my idea of humanely gassing Nazis with oxytocin? It is the most ironic thing I can imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 06:56 AM

The idea of gassing Nazis as a humane cure came to me like a complete Albert Brooks comedy movie. Gotta have Rip Torn as a Nazi leader that is cured. This screenplay is extremely funny against the backdrop of Nazi hate. Kinda reminds me of the movie 'Defending your Life' against the backdrop of death.

Lots of how and why hijinks getting Nazis covertly into the arenas.

Iconic humor is the weapon I choose. :^)

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 06:56 AM

I'm skeptical, Don. It might stimulate the urge to procreate in those Nazis. We're overstocked already.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 07:33 AM

Well, gee, I thought I had subjunctivized my statement well enough by saying "I guess one could blame Obama for giving new life to right-wing extremism."

On this side of the pond your statement implies strongly that you are according at least some legitimacy to that view. That you are not dismissing it out of hand. Don't blame us for scratching our heads wondering whether you actually believe that it could be true. That's how it looks. Nations divided by a common lingo, eh? There's nothing in the rest of your lengthy post containing the statement to counteract it. I know you don't blame Obama. But you didn't say it until you were challenged, did you? It isn't bloodthirsty idiots, Joe. It's legitimate efforts to encourage you to clarify what appeared to be puzzling indecision on your part.


But on the other hand, it seems wrong to me for a hate-filled group to be allowed to march across a campus and in front of a synagogue, carrying torches and guns and chanting hateful slogans. I understand the court decisions and I understand the need for freedom of speech - but when that free speech causes fear in the heart of another person, then something's not right.

So, I think that's a question that hasn't been resolved yet. I don't want to see repression of speech, but I also don't want to think people have a right to cause fear in others in the name of free speech.

You are saying the same thing as me. All freedom has boundaries, otherwise it negates someoone else's freedoms and disappears up its own backside (I'm not as sophisticated as some philosophers, sorry). I'm free to grow a crop on my field. But if I douse the field with every known legal biocide in order to achieve it, resulting in pollution of rivers, the deaths of millions of fish and the poisoning of drinking water downstream, I'd be negating the freedom of those fish to live and the freedom of the people to trust to the safety of their drinking water. I have to rein myself in at the point (which may be difficult to define precisely) at which I get a reasonable, if slightly smaller, crop. I get to make a living from my farm (though a slightly more modest one), the fish continue to thrive and your coffee won't be poison. The maximum available amount of freedom has been fairly shared out. That's how real freedom is exercised. Recognising limits. When it comes to speech, if you say something to deliberately make someone feel insecure, or frightened, or intimidated, or if you're trying to whip up hatred directed at a group of people, or if you are publicly trying to persuade people to exercise violence against other people, you've crossed the red line in my book. A remark may be undeliberate or clumsily expressed. It may have been made from ignorance. There are people who will pounce when that happens and it's all to the good. But agenda-driven hate speech is usually easy to identify. I think that, by employing it, you are trampling all over others' freedom to feel safe, secure and a worthwhile part of society. Ironically, you may end up strangling your own freedom while you're at it. Having the right to free speech never meant having the right to say what the hell you like.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 08:29 AM

On this side of the pond your statement implies strongly...

Not just in Blighty, Steve, whatever Jeri & Joe may contend about my inability to understand English.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 08:52 AM

The news service AP will no longer use the term 'alt right'.

Nor will I.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 09:09 AM

gillymore
That's great! When cured Nazis marry Asians, Blacks and brown Immigrants, procreate away. It will be fun to see who the most staunch and borderline Nazis in Act 1 end up with in the end.

Oxytocin makes people trust one another and form close bonds.
It is a hormone derived from infants and mothers soon after childbirth. It causes trust even in the most suspicious circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Stu
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 09:26 AM

I followed Donuel's link to the ACLU page and found it very informative. My main takeaway from what I read is that any interpretation of the constitution is a major issue when it comes to implementing laws and is open to bias.

What Joe said about Obama was spot on. I agree with Joe and Steve about the boundaries, but then we're not the ones interpreting the law.



"that I am an idiot and a homophobe."

You might want to pause and reflect a while on why folk think that.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 09:55 AM

Mr. Woody Allen thank you so much for seeing me, it is an honor.

Well I heard your unusual screenplay has potential.

Honestly that's a first, When Steven Spielberg heard it was about gassing people in large chambers he wouldn't see me and when Quenton Tarantino heard it was about gassing Nazis but they became nice he canceled and when Ridley Scott was told the emergent Nazis did not eat people he never called back.

What is it that the Nazis do exactly.

After they are gassed with Oxytocin they marry Asians, blacks and minorities...by the way it is a Jew who gasses the Nazis.

Your movie is greenlighted!

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:12 AM

There's a glitch in your storyline. The aversion that "Asians, blacks and minorities" will no doubt feel toward having their gene pool polluted by those racist bastards will probably negate the amorous effects of Oxyctin.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:18 AM

You keep thinking that Nazism is genetic. It is a mind set, an indoctrination and aberration of thought. Really that is a central message. Instead of stopping that thought process with a bullet to the brain there are better ways to change their mind.

Subject: RE: BS: blood & soil Nazification of America
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 17 - 10:21 AM

Oh, we're being serious? {tiptoeing out the door]