BS: Damian Green

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 07:22 AM

That's not difficult though is it PFR ............ seeing as you have none at the moment!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 07:33 AM

One small step for mankind is a giant step for Keith....

I'd give him credit for taking that step.....

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 07:34 AM

Just a couple of facts to try to lower the level of jubilation:

Green has been sacked for breaching the ministerial code. He has admitted to this.

The fact that he breached the ministerial code (in lying about when he first was made aware of the porn on the computer) does not show that he either downloaded or viewed that porn, which he still denies.

The fact that he is guilty of breaching the ministerial code does not mean that the ex-policeman is innocent of breaching the Data Protection Act, or, possibly of sections of P.A.C.E. (Police & criminal evidence).

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 07:51 AM

All along I've been promoting the notion that porn is a diversion and distraction in this case.
My, and several other's, main concern has been Green'e persistent blatant lying,
and self preserving attempt to shift blame even if it destroys other people.

What a cad and rotter...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 07:55 AM

Nigel, I have said it before and I will repeat it.

Anyone making such an allegation would be a fool to do so if they did not have conclusive, incontrovertible evidence to back up that claim.

As a ex police officer Bob Quick is probably more aware of this than most people.

Perhaps this is the reason why Damien Green has not taken legal action against him.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:05 AM

An interesting article on the BBC today regarding this matter.

Some posters on here seem to believe that only Quick knew of the alleged pornographic material on Greens computer but the article clearly states that Sir Paul Stephenson (Met Commissioner at the time) was also aware of this.

BBC Article

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:08 AM

"Green has been sacked for breaching the ministerial code. "
Members of your party are now demanding that the whistleblowers should be jailed for disclosing what is really happening in their rat-holes
At least An Garda Síochána in Ireland confine their activities to just smearing the whistleblower
What next Traitor's Gate or Tyburn Hill
What a shower of self-serving crooks
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:27 AM

THe police and Government have been aware of the contents of Green's computer since 2013 and have sat on it for political expediency
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:28 AM

Jim,
"he should have been suspended while the enquiry proceeded."
As should Green - no word of condemnation on that one though

I meant Green Jim.

PFR,
You can just honestly admit you backed the wrong man and party,

I did not back him.
I did not say he was telling the truth or that the ex-cop lied.
I just objected to you people assuming his guilt without any evidence.
It was just a prejudiced witch hunt.

your dogged blinkered support

That is just made up shit. I did not support him at all except to point out the absence of any evidence of his guilt, apart from the evidence Steve and Jim made up.


You can take a more honourable path of backing down and eating humble pie...

Willingly. Just provide a quote of me saying something that has been proved wrong.
You will not find one.

My, and several other's, main concern has been Green'e persistent blatant lying,

How did you know he was lying before he was sacked?
There was no evidence. You just assumed it out of prejudice.
I kept an open mind.

Rag,
Anyone making such an allegation would be a fool to do so if they did not have conclusive, incontrovertible evidence to back up that claim.
As a ex police officer Bob Quick is probably more aware of this than most people.

He had been caught lying about the Tories before and had to withdraw and make a grovelling apology to them, so not that aware.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:28 AM

... and it's not too far fetched to consider how much of Green's public disgrace has actually been stirred up covertly by the tory far right,
as a devious ploy to weaken and replace May with Bozzer.
Or whoever they prefer for PM this week...

It must be fun right now in Tory drinking clubs up and down the nation,
watching the various factions at each other's throats for xmas.....

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:33 AM

Keith - we knew he was lying because he is a high ranking tory politician...

It's such an obvious sure bet...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:33 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:27 AM
THe police and Government have been aware of the contents of Green's computer since 2013 and have sat on it for political expediency
Jim Carroll

Or, possibly because they were aware that no laws had been broken.

And according to several sources, the police no longer hold this information, hence the fact that Bob Quick is reliant on a personal record which he has illegally retained.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:34 AM

"I did not say he was telling the truth or that the ex-cop lied."
You implied both - you don't have the courage of your convictions to say what you really mean but your intention has been obvious each time you do it
You "didn't support" Ukip, but you argued their case and denigrated their critics - just as you have done with Greene
It's called 'fellow travelling'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM

Bob Quick apology.

Bob Quick

I wonder if this will be looked at again in the light of Damien Greens sacking.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:44 AM

.. and 'mealy-mouthed'...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:47 AM

Jim,
THe police and Government have been aware of the contents of Green's computer since 2013 and have sat on it for political expediency

The police yes. There was no crime involved and it should have been confidential. That is the law.

You claim the government also knew.
You are making up false facts again.

PfrKeith - we knew he was lying because he is a high ranking tory politician...

Exactly. Prejudice. Liars and porn users are not restricted to just the Tories, and not all Tories are liars or porn users.

Jim,

"I did not say he was telling the truth or that the ex-cop lied."
You implied both -

I did not.
I made clear that in the absence of evidence I did not know who was lying.
You made clear that in the absence of any evidence you just somehow knew he was guilty, and even made evidence up.
You are still at it.

You "didn't support" Ukip, but you argued their case and denigrated their critics - just as you have done with Greene

You are lying about me.
I did not argue his case, I just pointed to the absence of any evidence against him.
I did denigrate people who assumed guilt just out of prejudice.
I stand by that.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:52 AM

THIIS IS WAHAT BOB QUICK APOLOGISED FOR
Wonder why hie felt he had to - putting his career in jeopardy maybe??
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 09:01 AM

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 04:50 AM

Can you provide any evidence of that? After all...

Labour was in government, and have not indicated any prior knowledge of any of this.
Labour leadership would not have sat on such damning knowledge.


Followed by

From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:47 AM

Jim,
THe police and Government have been aware of the contents of Green's computer since 2013 and have sat on it for political expediency

The police yes. There was no crime involved and it should have been confidential. That is the law.

You claim the government also knew.
You are making up false facts again.

It seems that when Keith states that a government did not know something it must be taken as the truth but when anyone else says the government did know they must be lying.

Like I said earlier, a hypocrite of the highest caliber. Not worth expending energy on.

Remember - SADGIT

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 09:02 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:52 AM
THIIS IS WAHAT BOB QUICK APOLOGISED FOR
Wonder why hie felt he had to - putting his career in jeopardy maybe??
Jim Carroll

No, apparently he apologised for claiming that the source of that new story had been 'planted' by the Conservative Party: < ahref=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/dec/22/bob-quick-david-cameron-row>Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 09:05 AM

try again:
No, apparently he apologised for claiming that the source of that new story had been 'planted' by the Conservative Party: Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 09:10 AM

"I did not."
I'm just a lonely and a weary fellow traveller"
Without evidence, you accused the word of his accuses as being "tainted", even though nobody had ever acuused the second cop of anything - ll your own work
You never did have the courage of your obvious questions - you usually blame someone else for persuading you
Be a man - stand up for what you really believe for a change, as unsavoury as it might be
"Then you'll be a man, my son"
"No, apparently he apologised for claiming that the source of that new story had been 'planted' by the Conservative Party"
What else is a career policeman going to say in such circumstances Nigel?
We've seen clearly how these people operate from the whole incident
I wouldn't buy a used car from any of them
Bunch of incompetent crooks - just like an old Ealing comedy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 10:02 AM

Jim, In claiming that the government knew of the allegations several years ago I believe you are 100% correct.

It is totally inconceivable that the police could raid any office in any major enterprise and the subject of that raid be able to keep it a secret from their superiors.

Anyone suggesting such is either trying to make excuse for the subject of the raid or, or likely, is a complete idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 10:58 AM

Dave, no-one except Jim has claimed that the police told anyone except Green and his lawyer.
When Jim says the Tories were told, he was making that up.
Can you, Jim or anyone else produce anything to support that?
No. It is bollocks.

I said that the Tories were not told because no-one in the world has claimed that they were.
If they had been told, the independent enquiry would have found that along with the evidence that Green was told, no doubt provided by the police themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 11:18 AM

Rag,
It is totally inconceivable that the police could raid any office in any major enterprise and the subject of that raid be able to keep it a secret from their superiors.

It is illegal for the police to divulge any information found in a search if it does not relate to a crime.

The searches of Green's home and offices revealed no evidence of any crime and should never have been conducted.

The leaks themselves were judged by the CPS to be not secret and not a threat to national security. The DPP at that time was Keir Starmer, now a Labour Shadow Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 11:40 AM

Seems to be a great deal of fuss about nothing!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 12:38 PM

Wow, even Jeremy Corbyn can't claim to be without sin...

Not in the same league as Damien Green 'The Hand-Shandy Kid' though!

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 12:55 PM

"In my opinion, if you make a claim about what someone has said, you should substantiate it.

Your problem is that you are lying about me and can not substantiate your false accusations.

Do what I do.
Quote what has actually been said and then address it.
That is how discussion works.

Personal attack has no place.
You resort to it because you have nothing else.
You reveal your inadequacy."

I have no need to 'substantiate' it - you've substantiated your own deviousness and stupidity right through this thread, and every other thread you infect. The evidence is here aplenty - anyone who is sufficiently masochistic as to inflict your childish, OCD scribblings on themselves can see it, all very simple to find.

You are a very foolish little man, and absolutely the last one who should accuse others of inadequacy - you are the very epitome of that condition, as evidenced by the childish, schoolyard games you play incessantly, and which you're still attempting to drag me into.

Set your childish traps elsewhere, you're just making an even bigger fool of yourself here.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:11 PM

"It is illegal for the police to divulge any information found in a search if it does not relate to a crime."
Aren't we lucky these particular coppers did - somewhat out of character for their occupation
We'd have nerer know that a senior mininterin the Tory Government was a sexual predator
Funny thing - the shit tat the law manages to keep from the public - innit?
"When Jim says the Tories were told, he was making that up."
I don't make anything up Keith - the police authorities were told and they were bound by duty to pass that information to those concerned
Green engaged hsi legal advisors to deal with the police in 2013; do you honestly believe that his bosses were unaware of all this going on ?
"Only a lying idiot would attempt to claim that they didn't know what Green is so please don't disappoint us"
I got that one right - didn't I?
Credit where credit's due
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:28 PM

BWM
you've substantiated your own deviousness and stupidity right through this thread, and every other thread you infect.

Blah blah blah, but you can not produce a single example because it is a lie.

all very simple to find.

Prove it liar. Find some.

you are the very epitome of that condition, as evidenced by the childish, schoolyard games you play incessantly,

You mean not indulging in schoolyard name calling, quoting any statement I challenge and backing everything I say.

You are incapable of such rational discussion. That is an inadequacy.

Set your childish traps elsewhere,

Asking you to justify your abusive claims is not setting a trap.
Your inability to do it does confirm your inadequacy however.

Jim,
We'd have nerer know that a senior mininterin the Tory Government was a sexual predator

How do you know he is that?
Having legal porn on your office computer does not make you a sexual predator.
Again you are assuming guilt with no evidence.

I don't make anything up Keith - the police authorities were told and they were bound by duty to pass that information to those concerned

You did make it up. It would have been illegal for them to do so.

Green engaged hsi legal advisors to deal with the police in 2013; do you honestly believe that his bosses were unaware of all this going on ?

Yes. Both are bound by rules of confidentiality.

Only a lying idiot would attempt to claim that they didn't know what Green is so please don't disappoint us"
I got that one right - didn't I?
Credit where credit's due

What is he then? He does not even admit seeing the stuff. All we know is it was on an office computer and it was just stuff that millions look at every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:43 PM

"How do you know he is that? "
If policemen can be guilty without trail so can Government ministers
I don't believe a fellow Tory would make such things up - why should she?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:46 PM

If policemen can be guilty without trail so can Government ministers

Who says anyone can?

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 01:59 PM

"Who says anyone can?"
Sigh - you implied it when you described their evidence as suspect
The man is admitted liar about porn - why shouldn't he be lying about harassing a fellow colleague?
If she is, by the way, it meands the whole of the Tory Party is riddled with liars, but we knew that anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 03:04 PM

For someone who isn't defending this liar, you put up a somewhat persistent non-defence
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 06:36 PM

I've been solidly in Christmas rellie territory all day so I've missed out on all this. Just one or two things.

Does the end justify the means? As far as I'm concerned, whatever the rights, wrongs   or irregularities, what the whistleblowing policeman did was dead right. The upshot is that a dishonest (by his own admission, lest we forget) politician has been sacked. Not just white-lie dishonest but quite prepared to see others excoriated as he persisted in his denials. How bloody horribly ruthless and self-serving is that. Dunno about you, but I want every dishonest, ruthlessly self-serving politician removed from public office and I don't care which bloody party they're in. I don't want my country to be run by people who lack basic integrity, thank you.

The other thing is that Green has been a bosom buddy of May since they were at university together decades ago. Can it really be the case that she hasn't been complicit in all this? Either she was or she's a bit thick. Whichever is true, it means that she is unfit for office. I think we have a lot more to come out on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 08:47 PM

"Damian Green: Vendetta or architect of his own downfall?"

That's the title (google it yourself as I'm bleedin' useless at doing links) of a very incisive and clear piece on the Beeb website by Danny Shaw, no relation, that clearly shows that this was no upshot of any police grudge, as alleged by Keith, but the upshot of Green's pack of lies, his attempt at deception compounded by his vile attempts to deflect blame on to others. There'll be no further action against those cops. There's too much more embarrassing dirty linen to be aired if that happens, and May will not escape the ordure flying from the fan. Just you watch! Tory bastards...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Dec 17 - 11:48 PM

Too late and tired to seek and post links...

But how sleazy, how squalid is Green...

What I say next is based on a number of reputable news reports i have read over the last week or so...

He is a rich powerful man who sees it as his right to have a young attractive mistress.
He groomed and chatted up the victim of his knee fondling with the line "My wife will understand".
The subject of his misplaced and unwanted attentions is the daughter of a couple who are Greens friends.

The British upper middle classes eh...???

It's like the plot of a vintage 1970s BBC Play for Today, or Crossroads...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Dec 17 - 03:08 AM

An interesting twist is now developing. Green, we are assured, was not asked to leave because of pornography or sexual harassment but because he lied about what he knew. Let us just accept that for the moment.

Kate Malby is now asserting No 10 knew in 2016. And they have denied it. If Kate can provide evidence she told them, the conclusion will be uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Dec 17 - 12:50 PM

More trouble looming for the dream team
Maylower has been accused of knowing of the accusations against Green when she appointed him
An in-house enquiry by the government has decided that it was OK for International Trade Minister, Mark Garnier to call his secretary, "sugar tits" and send her off to buy sex toys for him.
A Tory MP's cheif of staff narrowly escaped conviction for 2 rapes when the jury decided that his victim's lawyers should have revealed that she went to the press after he had raped her and they (the jury) should have been made aware that she had a record of mental issues (apparently, those suffering mental problems aren't protected by rape laws!!)
The perpetrator's defence "did not claim that there was no case for him to answer" - he raped the woman and was let off on a technicality.
At present, the sexual conduct of four more Tory MPs is "under investigation" and one was suspended from the party last month.
Two Labour Party MPs were suspended immediately for harassment
There at it like rabbits
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 17 - 01:53 PM

Jim, BWM, don't forget - SADGIT :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 04:31 AM

How could we forget you Dave, even if you hardly ever contribute to the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 04:40 AM

"A Tory MP's cheif of staff narrowly escaped conviction for 2 rapes when the jury decided that his victim's lawyers should have revealed that she went to the press after he had raped her and they (the jury) should have been made aware that she had a record of mental issues (apparently, those suffering mental problems aren't protected by rape laws!!)
The perpetrator's defence "did not claim that there was no case for him to answer" - he raped the woman and was let off on a technicality."

The above is a total distortion of the facts and a pack of lies jimmy.
As you are well aware! Can you not understand the facts, as they were reported?

No doubt your acolyte will respond with more of his abbreviation stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 04:47 AM

Jim, Dave, resist the temptation to respond to that. Let's allow him to put himself out on an ever-longer limb.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 05:13 AM

Why on earth should I respond somebody who draws his information from extremist anti semitic-sites
Theres's a limit a girl will go to for company
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Iains
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 05:18 AM

The true facts minus the jimmie made up shit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42431171
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/15/scotland-yard-carrying-out-urgent-assessment-after-trial-collapses

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/21/two-ex-police-officers-investigated-alleged-data-breaches-damian/

It does no favours to either society or the police for as long as these obvious failures continue to occur.
The system is in dire need of reform and the usual suspects hammering on to make purely political capital out of the subject seem totally oblivious to the flaws in the present structure of policing. Much of the problem stems from the politicisation of the police under Blair's
maladministration.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 05:55 AM

"The true facts minus the jimmie made up shit."
Well Adolphie
THe relevant statement about the case is that there is no question that the suspect carried out the rapes
Perhaps your sieg-heil blogger can throw more light on the facts - ask him at your next rally
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 06:13 AM

THe relevant statement about the case is that there is no question that the suspect carried out the rapes

He has been cleared of any crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 06:30 AM

"He has been cleared of any crime."
On a technicality
There is little doubt he committed the rapes.
Is championing rape and the denigration of women going to be your New Year's crusade Keith ?
Chacun gout I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:18 AM

"Much of the problem stems from the politicisation of the police under Blair's
maladministration"

ahem.... and one more time.. miners strike... anti poll tax marches.. etc.. etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:18 AM

"Much of the problem stems from the politicisation of the police under Blair's
maladministration"

ahem.... and one more time.. miners strike... anti poll tax marches.. etc.. etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Damian Green
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Dec 17 - 07:24 AM

not this gov PAL! Doesn't count, CHIEF! !-)