BS: If Russia didn't do it..?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

"Insults to make up for lack of substance in your argument?"
No - this is eaxtly what you are doing
Unless you have reduced to Keith's level of ignoring arguments by claiming nobody is producing it, it is you who is not putting forward YOUR case
"Can you not make a post without being abusive?"
Where is there any abuse in my posting?
"Perhaps the moderators should chastise you, instead of simply closing the threads you infect. "
Back to your old self - pity!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 04:15 AM

You are still scooping up and flinging around meaningless opinions from the most bizarre sources which is probably why you are failing to identify them.
Insults to make up for lack of substance in your argument?
Are you one of the muppets that cannot believe anything unless delivered on a plate with all the trimmings by the BBC? or perhaps you have not been taught the delights of google? or maybe you   refuse to believe others do not agree with your narrow, blinkered, entirely obsolete mindset?

Can you not make a post without being abusive? Perhaps the moderators should chastise you, instead of simply closing the threads you infect.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Apr 18 - 03:24 AM

"Military force used against a state to punish it for infringing an international convention violates the prohibition of force under international law,"
I am totally opposed to the airstrikes but they weren't made to "punish" anybody - Assad and Russia will remain friends of Britain and America as long are they are useful
It is language like this that avoids the important issues here
The raids were "gesture politics" - an attempt to appear as if something was being done when in fact the situation is still the same and civilians are still being slaughtered daily.
If human rights and war crimes were an issue, action should have been taken when the knowledge of how Assad was dealing with opponents (as far back as 2006) became public knowledge.
Had this happened the world would never have had Isis to deal with
You are still scooping up and flinging around meaningless opinions from the most bizarre sources which is probably why you are failing to identify them.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:58 PM

Big story on BBC today is the untimely death of a Swedish DJ.......
Not a lot of time left for other less important breaking news....!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 PM

Iains .. "I wonder if the BBC or CNN pick up on   this:"
          I hope you are not holding your breath

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 05:24 PM

I wonder if the BBC or CNN pick up on   this:


"The United States, France and the United Kingdom violated international law by launching airstrikes against Syria in response to a suspected chemical weapons attack, an independent German parliamentary report has found."

“Military force used against a state to punish it for infringing an international convention violates the prohibition of force under international law,” said the report by the German parliament’s non-partisan

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:50 PM

"I'd love this to be a catalyst for exposing Boris/May in some related collusion over the on-going Salisbury dirty doings..."
Me too, but to be perfectly honest, they're doing a great job in shitting on their own doorstep to need out help - leave it to their expertise in that
Personally, I think the next step is going to be stopping Assad from wreaking his revenhge
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:47 PM

Follow the money!
Europe’s second-largest gas supplier after Russia exported 116 billion cubic meters (bcm) of natural gas via pipelines to receiving terminals in Britain, Germany, France and Belgium last year, up from the previous record of 108.6 bcm in 2016.

Norway’s pipeline gas exports meet about a quarter of Europe’s demand.
BUT: in the 2020's production will decline.
Quatar has the 3rd largest gas deposits in the world. The trans Syrian pipeline to export to the Med. is simply not going to happen. Russia, Syria and Iran say so. Reason Below.


When Norway puts the brakes on who is going to take up the slack.
Who is going to calling Mr Putin SIR?

Russia         47,800,000         million cubic meters reserves.
Iran           34,020,000         
Qatar                24,530,000

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:40 PM

Jim - all's ok..

Basically everywhere else it's "Russia definitely dunnit" - and even though they quite likely did,
I'd love this to be a catalyst for exposing Boris/May in some related collusion over the on-going Salisbury dirty doings...

That'd be a good result..
to get rid of the tory govt blight on Britain for at least another 5 years...

[well it's a sunny spring Saturday - gotta aspire to have some positive dreams...]

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:22 PM

Sorry - not being definitive about all this - I really would be interested in a response to what Britain could possibly gain from this - ***** if I can work it out
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:17 PM

"But your insistent condemnation of Russia is getting a bit overwhelming"
Sorry - have I nor said that no evidence exists - could have sworn I had?
I said I see no reason why they didn't - THE HAVE DONE SIMILAR THINGS IN THE PAST, (or are you suggesting the Boris/May Govt did did this for their own cynical devious Tory ends as well)... they interfered in the American elections and possibly the Brexit referendum.... not the Russia I knew.
I watched the programme on the Trump/Putin/Mafia links and realised how firmly the new Russia has moved to being one of Keith's "decent, democratic and fair minded countries" with all that implies
I have no doubt that British security are quite capable of having carried out such an attack, but what on earth have they got to gain from it?
Britain has been totally wimpish in its attitude to Assad and to Putin - what has happened to change that?
Nothing, as far as I can see
When all this is over Assad, Putin and whatever right wing moron running Britain will climb back into one another's pockets - the British establishment needs "a safe pair of hands" at the helm in "free" Russia
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:06 PM

Jim - reason for my last post is a reminder of the thread title
[which I forgot to include in that post..]

"BS: If Russia didn't do it..?"...

here we entertain the hypothetical notion of other remotely possible culprits... that's all...

In my mind, this is an anti - tory thread... but then, that's what all threads should be...!!!



Comrade Punkerovfolkrockerski

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 12:00 PM

Do you not notice that gory photos and video clips are not shown in the UK. War is only shown in a sanitized form. That is obvious censorship, on the grounds that you do not want to give kids or little old ladies nightmares. I doubt anyone has an argument with that.
That is merely a part of what happens however. D notices and spin masters primarily, if not exclusively serve, the government and their handlers. What is presented is for the majority to graze on, because only a minority questions the content.

An example using climate change:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268074188_Twist_and_Shout_Images_and_Graphs_in_Skeptical_Climate_Media

If the messenger cannot be removed, first destroy his reputation and credibility.

Example: Dr David Kelly was officially Chief Scientist for Chemical and Biological Defence at Porton Down and head of microbiology at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory.
He was acknowledged to be a foremost expert in the field of biological and chemical weapons.
Yet...
Aug 5, 2003 - Downing Street was forced to admit last night that a senior official had tried to discredit the Iraq weapons expert David Kelly by describing him as a Walter Mitty fantasist.

To take on faith the utterances of government is very, very foolish!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 11:25 AM

Side stepping them I hope, Raggy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:49 AM

Jim - we understand you are mightily disillusioned with Russia, and for very good reasons...

..and chances are, ultimately Putin's Russia is actually to blame for everything...???

But your insistent condemnation of Russia is getting a bit overwhelming
whilst others here are proposing a sceptical doubtful analysis
of how our Boris/May Govt is exploiting this Salisbury incident
for their own cynical devious tory ends...

You may actually be in danger of starting to sound a bit like you're crossing the floor to K****'s side...!!!?????

Which would be entirely bonkers,
and obviously not really where you are intentionally going with this anti Russia sounding line of argument...????

Gotta be careful K**** don't start thinking you're becoming mates with him...

Comrade Punkerovfolkrockerski

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:48 AM

You're jumping through hoops Dave!!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:44 AM

If no evidence exists ideology and past record is all we have to go on
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:33 AM

The best we can do it listen to all the arguments and make up our own minds.

Alternatively, the worst we can do is ignore all the evidence on ideological grounds.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 10:19 AM

"Information is becoming less and less available despite the internet"
That is probably true if qualified by a timeframe encompassing the rapid growth of internet access. This would probably be since 2000.
The TV age has only really existed in the UK since the mid 50's
The BBC started in 1922. Telegraphy by semaphore in 1797,electrically 1822. The first transatlantic cable 1858. Spreading news was obviously subjected to natural constraints until the growth of satellite communications and the internet.
Government everywhere likes to control who knows what, irregardless of what part of the political spectrum they inhabit. They have been trying desperately to censor it, especially in recent years.
Probably deregulation and charging for bandwidth will do much to throttle it back and coupled with search engine interference the internet of tomorrow will be semi castrated. But they will still hoover up your every key stroke. Control is the name of the game.
However for most applications the internet is a research instrument without equal.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM

It is folly to believe anything that governments tell you blindly and equally nonsensical to trust any media source. The best we can do it listen to all the arguments and make up our own minds.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:53 AM

I would suggest that they are hidden from any strangers, given the nature of the attack
It seems that, now the site of the attack has been opened up, the public may be at risk from the poison used
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:45 AM

"The jury is still out, on what can only be an allegation, as yet."
Until it is "in" - you don't give the accused access to the victim

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:44 AM

Incidentally
Back in 1968 I was part of the massive demonstration against Vietnam at the American Embassy in Grosvenor Square - I had Peggy Seeger as a minder (still makes me wake up with the cold sweats when I remember her enthusiasm)
I was pissed of to see a number of "demonstrators" i assumed were Anarchists using placards as spears to hurm at the police lines - until I saw the same "demonstrators" in the police lines keeping the crowds back
Anarchists or agents provocateurs this in no way lessened the justice of the demonstration against what was happening in Vietnam
MI5s involvement in no way lessens the justification ao the Arab protests (unlss, of course, you claim that they had no reason to protest in the first place)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:43 AM

The jury is still out, on what can only be an allegation, as yet.
Interesting they are hidden from the media. Are they still in the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:25 AM

Why are the Russians not allowed to see their citizens?

Skripal's daughter was reported as refusing to talk to anyone from the regime, perhaps because they tried to murder her and her father.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 06:17 AM

Of course the CIA are involved - interference in other nations policies is what they do - this in no way lessens the crimes of Assad's terror regime

But this begs the question was the chicken or the egg first to the party?
All regimes maintain control by the black arts. Why was the report on David Kelly locked up for 70 years? The jolly japes at Guantanamo Bay
are performed in the name of democracy. At least Saudi makes no effort trying to hide it's authoritarian rule.

There is a high degree of hypocrisy throughout. We are supposed to distinguish between good baddies and bad baddies. The only distinguishing feature between the two camps is red and black on a balance sheet! That is the reality!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 05:47 AM

"Why are the Russians not allowed to see their citizens?"
Are you serious?
Even if the accusations of Russian involvement are unfounded no authorities would give the main suspect access to the victims
Not sure what your three links are supposed to prove - one from Wiki who you have already dismissed as unreliable the others from dissidents groups who do not deal in any way with Assad's reign of terror
Are you seriously suggestion that the Britannica article is part of a conspiracy theory?
Grabbing articcles that back your arguments and ignoring the thousands of others that don't is 'Keithising' the discussion - he's already worked that on into the ground, so you are too late
If you are going to make a case you need to expose the decades of information on torture chambers and mass-murder head on and not sidestep them, as you (and your articles) are doing here
Of course the CIA are involved - interference in other nations policies is what they do - this in no way lessens the crimes of Assad's terror regime
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 05:12 AM

Back to the thread:
No recent news on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.
Is a D notice in force?
Are they still in the UK?
Why are the Russians not allowed to see their citizens?
Why have they not been interviewed on TV?
Questions, Questions!
No matter how I look at this 2+2 still makes 5.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 05:04 AM

Dave,
Given a choice between believing any politician and trusting my own judgement I would chose the latter.

Then you are a fool. What knowledge is your judgement based on?
Have you studied the reports available to governments?
What do you know about any of this Dave apart from what you read in the papers?
Did you take into account that he has previously murdered here, and lied about that as well as lying about cheating in the Olympics, lied about its intervention in Crimea, lied about the shooting down of a Malaysian airliner, lied about their murders of Litvinenko, liberal politician Boris Nemtsov and investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya,...

These governments have seen the actual evidence and based on that evidence their judgement is that Putin and his regime lied about this too:-
United States: 60 United Kingdom: 23 Ukraine: 13 Canada: 4 France: 4 Germany: 4 Poland: 4 Lithuania: 3 Czech Republic: 3 Spain: 2 Australia: 2 Denmark: 2 Italy: 2 Netherlands: 2 Albania: 2 Estonia: 1 Romania: 1 Sweden: 1 Croatia: 1 Finland: 1 Latvia: 1 Hungary: 1 Macedonia: 1 Norway: 1

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:40 AM

Given a choice between believing any politician and trusting my own judgement I would chose the latter. But the choice is never as binary as some people have us believe. There are elements of grey that politicians rely on. The yarns they spin all contain an element of truth but if you hold up that yarn for close scrutiny you will find the holes.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:27 AM

Iains,
Keith from the way you take the "party" line in this thread it is obvious that you believe the politicians every time.

I do not, but when the choice is between believing Putin (Guardian,"Putin: The New Tsar review – a portrait of a lonely, lying narcissist)
or the governments of every liberal democracy in the world, I believe the democracies.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:23 AM

Pfr Congratulations. I like your summary.

My take is below:
Do politcians lie?
Do bears shit in the woods?
Is the pope a Catholic?

An illusion masquerades as reality much of the time and is only presented after spin, censorship and extensive massage.

An example: We are told Arab spring was spontaneous when it reached Syria, and dissatisfaction with the regime was so high it mutated into civil war.
But:
View 1

View 2

View 3

Now what of the above best explains the present chaotic situation in Syria?
Who has a persistent history of meddling?
Who has grabbed the oil and gas assets of the regime and straddles the main water supply of the country?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Apr 18 - 04:10 AM

Picking up from last night's posting
Information is becoming less and less available despite the internet
Last year Britain lost thousands of SENSITIVE HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS
I am finding while searching for information during discussions here that information that was freely available last year had disappeared, particularly on Israel - as far as I can find, the dozens of photographs of children burned by white phosphorus have been removed from the net
A year or so ago, Haaretz pointed out that many of the David Ben Gurion Papers have been locked away from the public gaze
We all know how Trump passes on what he wishes the people to have - and we know how his 'tail' in Westminster is always happy to wag Americas message here
The Irish referendum on pregnancy termination is now dominated by vicious misinformation put out by church-dominated 'No' supporters (such as "access to abortion will inevitably lead to euthanasia" as pronounced by the Bishops)   
A population with even less access to the facts that we have had in the past is not a comfortable prospect for the future
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 10:13 PM

Please indulge me..
This seems to good an opportunity not to transplant a slighty modified version
of my final post in the now closed thread [yes.. that one..]

I think it's more relevant here, now...
and yes I couldn't be bothered editing out the crap whimsical paragraph...



Last night I fell asleep during a long drama documentary about Daniel Boone...
[hooray for buffer memory and rewind...!!!]

Interestingly this documentary seemed almost as fictionalised as if it had been a Hollywood action movie,
compared to the wiki history for this man.
I don't know why they bother making these productions.
Either make an accurate documentary,
or just give us a proper scant regard for history based on real 'a true story' pop corn action movie.
These expensively stage hybrid re-enactment drama-docs just over condense, simplify, and fictionalise far too much.
I feel cheated.

Which brings me on to the point of real time news reporting of current international conflicts and wars;
and being able to trust what is depicted on screen and in print.

How would World War 2 have progressed if 24/7 news channels and internet social media had existed back then.
With every event being covered and commented on in fine detail in up to the minute real time..
with panels of journalists and experts arguing opinions on what is really happening and who is to blame...

How much different might received history be now,
how altered would classic World war 2 movie accounts of dramatic heroic events have to be...?????

Now, 21st century.. how much longer before viewers are invited to to phone in to select winners and losers,
who gets killed in Syria and who survives onto the next round...????

Ok let's spin the wheel of death - odd numbers Asshat & Russia did it,
even numbers it was staged by activists..
bonus number and we will implicate CIA / MI6...

Ffs.. If we can't trust modern media and social networks...???

So finally.. I don't know what's really real or not just from watching BBC news reports,
and so don't think most ordinary folks should make arrogant dogmatic pronouncments based on such uncertainty...
The only reasonable position should be healthy scepticism in public discourse,
even if we have made our own minds up based on informed judgement and opinion / prejudice in private...???

Respect expert opinions, but do not automatically trust them entirely ...

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 09:12 PM

You don't know that, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 08:08 PM

Last night the Alex Jones show was casting aspersions about the cause of the gas attacks and freely quoting RT as a source, (straight from Putin).

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 06:19 PM

"Do you think wikileaks is a tissue of lies"
Mixed
- Assange gave information we needed dd to have as did my hero Mordechai Vanunu
I prefer Wikileaks to unnamed blogs - but in the end, you need to find out what you can and maker up your own mind
Amnesty and Human Rights Watch work every time for me - unbiased and independent
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 05:13 PM

The official story on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was later   shown to be a pack of lies, as a pretext for escalating the Vietnam War.

The true story of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty is still murky.
A BBC documentary suggests the Israeli attack would be blamed on the Egyptians to give the US an excuse to attack Egypt. The true story is still hidden in layers of conflicting narrative, and the fact no clear unambiguous explanation has emerged suggests collusion and hankypanky still holds sway.

The MyLai massacre was covered up for 18months before hitting headlines. 3 US servicement who tried to protect civilians were shunned, and even denounced as traitors by several U.S. Congressmen, including Mendel Rivers, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Only after thirty years were they recognized and decorated, one posthumously, by the U.S. Army for shielding non-combatants from harm in a war zone.

Truth is an elusive beast and takes time to surface, sometimes it never does!
Just three examples.There are many others. Each is a can of worms.
Surely no one ever takes anything purely on trust anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 03:36 PM

You pays your money, you make your choice.
Do you think wikileaks is a tissue of lies, or a devilish mix of fact and propaganda(by the time we get to see it)?
Is Assange a hero or a criminal?
They say history is written by the winners! Is encyclopedia brittanica not writing history on the given subject? True or false?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:54 PM

Whoops
Personally, I'd rather go with ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA than an anonymous blogger Iains
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 02:14 PM

Keith from the way you take the "party" line in this thread it is obvious that you believe the politicians every time.
The intervention in Libya ostensibly was on humanitarian grounds. The ensuing death toll suggests that the stated aim was not achieved.
But if you follow the munneee a different, far more plausible scenario, unfolds. NATO intervention may have been motivated by Gaddafi's attempts to establish a unified federation of African states that would use the gold dinar as its currency and demand that foreign importers of African oil pay in gold. (What does that do to the almighty dollar?)
Iraq was invaded for a number of reasons, The WMD angle was merely a pretext. A summary is here
reasons
Syria. A spontaneous uprising mutating into a civil war we are told.
Well here is another view:
http://democratic-syria.blogspot.ie/2012/08/the-arab-spring-spontaneous-public.html

I can assure you that I simply do not believe these events developed as we are led to believe. It is not a fight for people's rights, it is a battle to subdivide and conquer. The people on top of the sand are not the issue, the oil under the sand is! Syria is stalling a pipeline route for Saudi oil and Quatari gas straight to europe.

If I was cynical I would say Afghanistan is a part of the equation too. Some would argue the opium is a cash crop for the CIA. When I was in Singapore in the early to mid 70's there were many Bird Air, Air America and other dodgy transports cluttering up the tarmac at Seletar , and the Golden Triangle was a hop skip and jump up the road.(Coincidence?) The old Gil's Grill in the Shaw center on Orchard road hosted a variety of strange people beside the oilfield and I used to hear some totally outlandish tales there, some of them likely based on reality.

Having had a bit of a wandering life I tend to treat official stories with permanently raised eyebrows. The world simply does not work the way the media would have us believe. As I repeatedly say(to no avail)yes/no, black/white rarely exists. The truth resides in a grey fog. I have no idea what the true story is most of the time, but my "bullshit " detector is highly developed and generally points in the vague direction of what actually happened. The only certainty is that the pretext for starting wars is generally false.(not always,   but usually)
There is a saying "All wars are Banker's Wars" The arguments in support are quite strong.

In conclusion Russia, China and Iran are dumping the dollar for oil purchases. Western(American) Bankers will not take kindly to that!
You appear to reside in the perfect as opposed to the actual world.

I think a cursory study of the Iran Contra affair is a lesson in the perfidy of politicians and their underlings.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 01:08 PM

When I was in my militant trade unionist prime and associating ill-advisedly with various far-left groups, one curious thing I noticed about them was that they all hated Russia. If you were a barrister defending a murderer in court, it would be ridiculous for anyone to claim that you were pro-murderer. You'd simply be pro-evidence. Proper evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 12:56 PM

"Although Russia has dropped any pretence of socialism, the far-Left still support him because he stands against the West."


Looks like I've not been checking the latest edition of the Far Left Handbook...!!!???

Sorry, I didn't realise I was supposed to be supporting Putin..

I'd better pull my finger out and get on with supporting the nasty criminal dictator rotter immediately...!!!

Putin Putin rah rah rah...!!!!!

...there.. will that do...?????

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 12:41 PM

Iains posts from a pro-Putin position.
Although Russia has dropped any pretence of socialism, the far-Left still support him because he stands against the West.

I read that a lot of pro-Russian posters have appeared on internet forums lately.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 12:08 PM

All together now... Patriotic British far left extremists unite in song...

Rule Britannia & Jeruselam

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:36 AM

"You are just anti the West, and our dominant Far-Left Mudcat group"
You are responding to nothing here with a shred of humanity or intelligence - are you surprised that nobody wants to talk to you
If we wanted the establishment view we would wait for the next election and listen to their party political broadcasts
You are an arse-licking establishment moron
I find myself pleasantly surprised in totally agreeing with Iains - welcome to the "far-left" - we'll share a cell when Keith gets hus UN - British Activities Trials underway
What a flag-wagging tosser!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:31 AM

No change there then Steve, I just surprised that Iains (note the spelling) is still jumping through hoops.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:23 AM

I've called Iains many things, often sotto voce, often not, but I've never called him "Ians."

Anyway, Iains, come and join the most moderate bunch of extremists you've ever met! Just gotta get you onside over brexit now... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:19 AM

Did I just read somebody daft enough to type..

"Ians........
You are just anti the West, and our dominant Far-Left Mudcat group happily support you in that."

hysterical.... that's got to be laugh of the day...!!!

bring on a sunny spring weekend of rifts between right wingers....


Of course, even though I am a far lefty extremist [even though I'm not really...]
what I observe lately
is Iains being very pro intelligent informed critical analysis,
and t'other chap being very pro stupid clump headed bigotted denouncements.....

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Apr 18 - 11:06 AM

So you all think war is bad.
Do you imagine anyone disagrees?

Ians,
There is Nothing for the WEST TO BE PROUD OF IN THESE CONFLICTS.

You are just anti the West, and our dominant Far-Left Mudcat group happily support you in that.
Russia was in Afghanistan too, and has nothing to be proud of in any of its foreign adventures.