BS: If Russia didn't do it..?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:58 AM

If you are right and the chemical attack you describe did take place then Trump and co. will stop one lot of innocent civilians being gassed by dropping bombs on another lot of innocent civilians.

If you are not right then Trump and co. will drop bombs on innocent civilians for no good reason whatsoever.

I am pretty sure i know which is the more rational decision. And it is not to do nothing, it is to get to the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:51 AM

Well gnome, I have seen the videos and read the descriptions of the effect of the gas on the victims from the medical staff treating them. I have also heard them telling of how the gas was preceded by barrel bombs which drove the people into shelters below ground and how they were suffocated by the heavier than air gas. Anyone who thinks this is some false flag or staged event is incapable of rational thought.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:35 AM

How do you know they are? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:29 AM

I would want to make damn sure of my facts

And how do you know that they aren't sure of the facts?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:27 AM

This war, and indeed all wars, does need to be stopped. But you do not stop a war with violence. All that does is replaces one war with another.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:23 AM

Dave,
There are enough people saying that what happened is very unclear

Yes but re. Salisbury, not anyone who has seen the evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:17 AM

Would you want to go to war on the basis of what may be true? I would want to make damn sure of my facts before I dropped the bomb on anyone. Particularly in this age of misinformation.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:15 AM



In case you haven't noticed there is a war which has been going on for seven years. It's time to stop the war and the gassing of innocent civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 09:09 AM

Right, just leave them to go on gassing their population, that's the ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:43 AM

I am not convinced by the argument that if they did it before they must have done it this time. It is not the basis on which to start a war.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:17 AM

Here is a list of over seventy reported chemical attacks in Syria:

Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 08:04 AM

Apart from, unlike the nerve agent attack here, the alleged Syrian attack could cause a serious escalation of hostilities culminating in global destruction. You have to be pretty damn sure that Russia/Syria did indeed use chemical weapons before military intervention. Like the Salisbury poisoning, none of us here can categorically say who did it or even if it was done. There are enough people saying that what happened is very unclear and on that basis it would be foolish to take any action until proof is evident.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:51 AM

Iains congratulations. Your spasms of lucidity are refreshing.

Except, in case you didn't notice, his attempt to steer the discussion away from Russia who are currently complicit in gassing civilians in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:49 AM

Porton Down says it was developed in Russia/Soviet Union. That is its source, as Boris said.
They also said that only a state could make it, and Russia does not admit sharing it with anyone.

Johnson denies lying or making anything up, and no-one in the opposition is prepared to describe what he said as a lie.

That is why I challenged your statement, "citing made-up evidence."
That has not been established.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:40 AM

I believe a rational person calls it myth, fantasy and bullshit!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:37 AM

Don't fall for it SPB. Most people know exactly what you mean.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:29 AM

What "made up evidence" did he cite?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:23 AM

In answer to the original question maybe they did and maybe they didn't, the balance of probability indicating that they did.

However, idiots like Johnson spouting off his big ignorant mouth citing made-up evidence means the UK have no serious grounds or credence to state its case.

Mind you, if people are daft enough to vote Tory, that's the kind of thing you'd expect to happen.

Just be grateful that idiots like Johnson are nowhere near the justice system - otherwise nobody would ever be convicted.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:14 AM

Unlike those of your goodself, that have yet to be seen!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 07:07 AM

Iains congratulations. Your spasms of lucidity are refreshing.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 05:09 AM

Dr Busby in the youtube clip above is an interesting fellow. He is hated by the establishment for his work on depleted uranium and it is dismissed.(How convenient!)
He also drew attention to heightened radiation monitored in the UK after shock and awe in the Gulf. This was denied of course, as false news no doubt(long before the concept became popular)
Since then I believe Halliburton has taken over the sensors so they can be turned off should such a situation ever repeat.

I suspect he was correct.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=EE1VCAAAQBAJ&pg=PT2963&lpg=PT2963&dq=radiation+++measured+in+uk+from+shock+and+awe&source=bl&ot

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

Like the following perhaps???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4utEI2EU64

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 12:26 PM

It may be just the wrong sort of fake news.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 11:03 AM

Yeah a bit like Trump won the elction!

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 07:49 AM

Lololol.......Off Guardian is a Russian fake news site.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 05:29 AM

Never let facts get in the way of a good war.

https://off-guardian.org/2018/04/08/douma-chemical-attack-facts-so-far/

or even why the war exists

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Natural-Gas-War-Burning-Under-Syria.html

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:54 PM

In reaction to the "Russian thing" The HLS is partnering with the NSA to scan and scrutinize every news producing agency of every ilk to determine which ones are the Instigating time bombs of chaos.

Through out the World.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:23 PM

"In violation of withdrawal lines, in a non-government-controlled area an SMM mini-UAV spotted on 4 April seven tanks (T-72), seven self-propelled howitzers (2S1 Gvozdika, 122mm), ten towed howitzers (five 2A65 Msta-B, 152mm, five D-30 Lyagushka, 122mm), seven multiple launch rocket systems (BM-21 Grad, 122mm) and seven surface-to-air missile systems (9K35, Strela-10), all stationary at an airfield on the south-eastern outskirts of Luhansk city (see SMM Daily Report 3 April 2018).

In violation of withdrawal lines in a government-controlled area near Kurakhove (40km west of Donetsk), the SMM saw a tank (type undetermined) on a flatbed truck heading south-west.

Beyond withdrawal lines but outside designated storage sites in a non-government-controlled area, the SMM saw ten tanks (T-64) near Kruhlyk(see the Ceasefire Violation section)."

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 06:09 PM

No doubt someone is hopping mad. The question still unresolved is precisely who that person might be. The latest "chlorine" gas attack in Syria has a similar problem, Who dunnit? When Syria is trouncing the opposition on every front and Trump announces US troops are leaving the oilfields north of Palmyra (while still actively building new bases) the devil's advocate may ask cui bono?
Is it another carefully choreographed media presentation by white helmet bullshit productions Inc?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:30 PM

The agent was designed to be used in a completely different delivery system not in the way it was to target an individual. I believe it was jury rigged by some scientist without proper testing. You are right to conjecture that it wasn't thought through.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:09 PM

The Russians must be hopping mad. Not only did their assassination attempt not work, but they used a substance with an audit trail straight back to Moscow. What were they thinking? I don't think they thought this through or predicted the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 03:24 PM

Putin is now related to the Pied Piper


Two guinea pigs belonging to Sergei Skripal died and his cat were sealed in the house and died after the Salisbury nerve agent attack, the government has revealed. Meanwhile the rats are thriving


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5591057/Salisbury-areas-sealed-police-infested-rats.html

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:39 AM

If he's still in Mar a logo? is that's what's known as "par for the course"

It becomes dangerous when Fake news is intended as a double bluff N'est pas "par for the course"?

Discreditting the media is a separate tactic on its own

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:30 AM

Definitely difficult to verify at this juncture as disinformation is a major weapon in today's wars.

The purported chemical attack in Syria is being denied, as is to be expected, by Russia and Syria and Russia is warning of dire consequences for any actions taken in retaliation. Meanwhile Trump is tweeting away blaming Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 11:12 AM

The posting is yesterday but the video is not dated.
I'm sure that if it true the US of A will make the most of it I'm sure Until then its unconfirmed , POTUS has another word for it ? : <)

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:28 AM

https://twitter.com/fatimatlis/status/982946448101859328/video/1

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:25 AM

Interesting, what is your source Bobad
Google search reveals nothing since around 2014?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:09 AM

It appears the Russians are no longer pretending about their invasion. There are reports of two tank convoys having crossed the border into Ukraine in the Rostov region.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 09:39 AM

Possibly, but I'd need proof.
why don't you start a new thread on it ?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 08:10 AM

Chemivcal attack on civilians in Ghouta, Syria - dozens killed
Probably a coincidence
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 07:30 AM

is it possible it was MI5 or the CIA?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 05:42 AM

Was the message sent by a "white helmet"
Did news travel to Damascus from Salisbury by magic?
Was the parcel from Amazon?
Which BIGGLES book is providing the latest script?

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Iains
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 04:43 AM

The plot thickens!
AN ELECTRONIC message to Moscow sent on the day former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with a nerve agent in Salisbury. It was sent from a location near Damascus in Syria to “an official” in Moscow including the phrase ‘the package has been delivered” and saying that two individuals had “made a successful egress”.The message was intercepted by RAF analysts stationed at a listening post in southern Cyprus.

Seems a well traveled straw to me I am afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 09:28 PM

Yup, but the good guys stood their ground.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 09:23 PM

Yep. The lynch mob moves in.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: bobad
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 08:53 PM

That's what happens when terrorists try to infiltrate a sovereign country in order to murder its citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 08:45 PM

A fair few dead Palestinians in Gaza too. I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Apr 18 - 07:07 PM

SShaw,

Does the name Boris Nemtsov ring a bell? We're not all equivalent victims of our governments. There are all those dead ex-Soviets remember? All the dead Dutch citizens, and particularly all the dead and sidelined reporters in Russia, and the would be democratic opposition that's sidelined with trumped up legal issues.

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:25 PM

fellow sentient beings... - is that better.....???

Subject: RE: BS: If Russia didn't do it..?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 09:14 PM

I'm a lad but how do you know 'he" is? Get modern, pfr...!!! ;-)