BS: Israel's Sharpville

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 08:23 AM

"More the shame in that those very Arab nations created the refugees by making war Israel"
Pity losers of wars weren't allowed to keep their homes after WW2
We'd all be owning second homes on the Banks of the Rhine
What an appalling concept and one guaranteed to create entire nations of itinerants (which is, if afct happening today)
It is an applaalling crime against humanity to forbid refugees a return tho their countries for going to war
It really dows put you atrocity deniers where you need to be
Thank you for your help
Jim Caarroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 08:49 AM

"It is an applaalling crime against humanity to forbid refugees a return tho their countries for going to war"

Yes- so how about the greater NUMBER OF JEWS DRIVEN OUT OF ARAB NATIONS IN 1948-1967?

Or how about the Hindus driven out of Pakistan, or the Moslims driven out of India?

"The partition displaced over 14 million people along religious lines, creating overwhelming refugee crises in the newly constituted dominions; there was large-scale violence, with estimates of loss of life accompanying or preceding the partition disputed and varying between several hundred thousand and two million. The violent nature of the partition created an atmosphere of hostility and suspicion between India and Pakistan that plagues their relationship to the present."


But no Jews to blame, so JC is OK with it.

The UK has a long history of leaving a mess behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 08:59 AM

", Jinnah proclaimed 16 August 1946 Direct Action Day, with the stated goal of peacefully highlighting the demand for a Muslim homeland in British India. However, on the morning of the 16th, armed Muslim gangs gathered at the Ochterlony Monument in Calcutta to hear Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy, the (Muslim League's Chief Minister of Bengal, who, in the words of historian Yasmin Khan, "if he did not explicitly incite violence certainly gave the crowd the impression that they could act with impunity, that neither the police nor the military would be called out and that the ministry would turn a blind eye to any action they unleashed in the city." That very evening, in Calcutta, Hindus were attacked by returning Muslim celebrants, who carried pamphlets distributed earlier which showed a clear connection between violence and the demand for Pakistan, and directly implicated the celebration of Direct Action Day with the outbreak of the cycle of violence that would later be called the "Great Calcutta Killing of August 1946". The next day, Hindus struck back and the violence continued for three days in which approximately 4,000 people died (according to official accounts), Hindus and Muslims in equal numbers. Although India had had outbreaks of religious violence between Hindus and Muslims before, the Calcutta killings were the first to display elements of "ethnic cleansing", in modern parlance. Violence was not confined to the public sphere, but homes were entered and destroyed and women and children were attacked"


But again, JC will allow only discussion of Israel- the ONLY Jewish state. No other country is ever worth his discussion time. Seems like he has some sort of fixation of blaming Jews... No- one else EVER does anything wrong, or should ever be held accountable, EXCEPT THE JEWS, according to JC.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:02 AM

"There are numerous eyewitness accounts of the maiming and mutilation of victims. The catalogue of horrors includes the disembowelling of pregnant women, the slamming of babies' heads against brick walls, the cutting off of victims limbs and genitalia and the displaying of heads and corpses. While previous communal riots had been deadly, the scale and level of brutality during the Partition massacres was unprecedented. Although some scholars question the use of the term 'genocide' with respect to the Partition massacres, much of the violence was manifested with genocidal tendencies. It was designed to cleanse an existing generation and prevent its future reproduction."

Talbot & Singh 2009, pp. 67–68

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:15 AM

"There are numerous eyewitness accounts of the maiming and mutilation of victims."
Sounds like a day in the death of Sabra Shatila Bruce, and after that one, the man found resposible (even by Israel" ws later elected Prime minister of that country
This is pointless "my massacre is worse than your massacre" tit-for-tat
For Christs sake - thsis is a war between the displacers and the displaced
You prove nothing until you deaal with that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:33 AM

Fine, JC-

The DISPLACED 820,000 Jews from Arab nations settled by Israel offset the 640,000 Muslims NOT settled by the Arab nations.

The Muslims OWE Israel for 180,000 refugees.

Deal with THAT.

And YOU brought up the 1948 massacres, but only noted ONE side. I guess the Muslim grenades being throw into Jewish homes just sort of slipped your mind, them being only Jews being killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:38 AM

No Jim.
All wars produce refugees.
After WW2 millions of refugees, the most ever, were accepted by the ruined Germany.
At the same time, Israel took in 586 000 Jewish refugees at great expense to the Israeli government, and without any compensation from the Arab governments who had confiscated their possessions.
Another 200 000 Jews found refuge in Europe.

At the same time the Arab nations put all the Palestinian refugees into camps and kept them there.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:41 AM

Utter crap
This as a war of ethnic cleansing
You may wish to defend the politicians - I am concerned about the victims who play no part in the decisions
Your "he hit me first sir" is infantile
Unless you wish to argue like an adult go and talk to Keith
You have lost your right even to mention Jews and that will remain until you condemn his antisemitism
Until than it is about politics, pure and simple
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:49 AM

The only ethnic cleansing in the Middle east was of Jews from Arab countries and Jews from Judea and Samaria by Jordan.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 09:59 AM

I have noted antisemitism here- but primarily on YOUR posts. YOU hold Israel to a set of standards that you do NOT apply to other nations, leading one to believe that you are a bigot.

You have lost your right even to mention 1948 massacres and that will remain until you condemn the Muslims for the same activities you condemn Israel for.

"Until than it is about politics, pure and simple"

Obviously. If Israel had a far Left government, you would be happy with everything they do. Just look at your (lack of) reply to the Far Left Sinn Fein support of the Nazis.
http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html

http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.docs.html#jews

http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html#holocaust

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:07 AM

"A 'wind of violence'[16] rapidly took hold of the country, foreboding civil war between the two communities.[17] Murders, reprisals, and counter-reprisals came fast on each other's heels, resulting in dozens of victims killed on both sides in the process. The impasse persisted as British forces did not intervene to put a stop to the escalating cycles of violence.[18][19][20][21]

The first casualties after the adoption of Resolution 181(II) by the General Assembly were passengers on a Jewish bus driving on the Coastal Plain near Kfar Sirkin on 30 November. An eight-man gang from Jaffa ambushed the bus killing five and wounding others. Half an hour later they ambushed a second bus, southbound from Hadera, killing two more. Arab snipers attacked Jewish buses in Jerusalem and Haifa.[19]

Irgun and Lehi followed their strategy of placing bombs in crowded markets and bus-stops.[22] As on 30 December, in Haifa, when members of Irgun, threw two bombs at a crowd of Arab workers who were queueing in front of a refinery, killing 6 of them and injuring 42. An angry crowd massacred 39 Jewish people in revenge, until British soldiers reestablished calm.[20][23] In reprisals, some soldiers from the strike force, Palmach and the Carmeli brigade, attacked the village of Balad ash-Sheikh and Hawassa. According to different historians, this attack led to between 21 and 70 deaths.[21]

According to Benny Morris, much of the fighting in the first months of the war took place in and on the edges of the main towns, and was initiated by the Arabs. It included Arab snipers firing at Jewish houses, pedestrians, and traffic, as well as planting bombs and mines along urban and rural paths and roads.[24]

From January onwards, operations became increasingly militarized.

In all the mixed zones where both communities lived, particularly Jerusalem and Haifa, increasingly violent attacks, riots, reprisals and counter-reprisals followed each other. Isolated shootings evolved into all-out battles. Attacks against traffic, for instance, turned into ambushes as one bloody attack led to another.

On 22 February 1948, supporters of Mohammad Amin al-Husayni organized, with the help of certain British deserters, three attacks against the Jewish community. Using car bombs aimed at the headquarters of the pro-Zionist Palestine Post newspaper, the Ben Yehuda St. market and the backyard of the Jewish Agency's offices, they killed 22, 53 and 13 Jewish people respectively, and injured hundreds.[25][26] In revenge, Lehi put a landmine on the railroad track in Rehovot on which a train from Cairo to Haifa was travelling, killing 28 British soldiers and injuring 35.[27] This would be copied on 31 March, close to Caesarea Maritima, which would lead to the death of forty people, injuring 60, who were, for the most part, Arab civilians.[28]

Having recruited a few thousand volunteers, al-Husayni organized the blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem.[29] To counter this, the Yishuv authorities tried to supply the city with convoys of up to 100 armoured vehicles, but the operation became more and more impractical as the number of casualties in the relief convoys surged. By March, Al-Hussayni's tactic had paid off. Almost all of Haganah's armoured vehicles had been destroyed, the blockade was in full operation, and hundreds of Haganah members who had tried to bring supplies into the city were killed.[30] The situation for those who dwelt in the Jewish settlements in the highly isolated Negev and North of Galilee was even more critical.

According to the Arab League general Safwat:

    Despite the fact that skirmishes and battles have begun, the Jews at this stage are still trying to contain the fighting to as narrow a sphere as possible in the hope that partition will be implemented and a Jewish government formed; they hope that if the fighting remains limited, the Arabs will acquiesce in the fait accompli. This can be seen from the fact that the Jews have not so far attacked Arab villages unless the inhabitants of those villages attacked them or provoked them first.[31]

Although a certain level of doubt took hold among Yishuv supporters, their apparent defeats were due more to their wait-and-see policy than to weakness.[citation needed] David Ben-Gurion reorganized Haganah and made conscription obligatory. Every Jewish man and woman in the country had to receive military training."

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:09 AM

"According to the Arab League general Safwat:

    Despite the fact that skirmishes and battles have begun, the Jews at this stage are still trying to contain the fighting to as narrow a sphere as possible in the hope that partition will be implemented and a Jewish government formed; they hope that if the fighting remains limited, the Arabs will acquiesce in the fait accompli. This can be seen from the fact that the Jews have not so far attacked Arab villages unless the inhabitants of those villages attacked them or provoked them first.[31]"

Khalidi, Walid (1998). "Selected Documents on the 1948 Palestine War" (PDF). p. 70. Archived from the original (PDF) on 9 November 2013.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:26 AM

You are refusing to condemn open santisemitism and you are refusing to respond to what I am saying - while this goes on, all you are doing is hurling Israeli propaganda that has been dealth with over and over and over again, ad nauseum
As Keith has demonstrated, that proves nothing
Carry on soap-boxing and as far as I can make out, you are adding nothing to the topic - we have nothing to say to each other
AS I said - until you condemn all antisemitism, you have nothing to say on behalf of the Jewish people
You cannot pick and choose between friend's and opponent's antisemitism
1948 for ***** sake - people who weren't born then are being slaughtered now
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:26 AM

In 1947 the UN resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States.
The plan was accepted by the Jews.
The Arabs refused and started a war that is ongoing from 1947 until today.

-----"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of LIKE THE MONGOLIAN MASSACRES "
Arab League general secretary, Azzam Pasha, declaration when 7 Arab armies attacked the defending Israel in 1948
----
“Palestine shall be consumed with fire and blood if the Jews get any part of it.”
--- Declared on November 24, 1947, by the Acting Chairman of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, Jamal Al-Husseini

In March, 1976, Mahmoud Abbas told the PLO newspaper, Filastin A-Thawra:
------ “Arab armies forced Palestinians to leave their homes.”

On October 2, 1948, The London Economist wrote:
--- “the most potent factor triggering the Arab flight were the announcements by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to evacuate… and that Arabs accepting Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades….”

On June 8, 1951, the Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha told the Lebanese daily, Al Hoda:
---- “In 1948, the Arab leadership advised Arabs in Palestine to leave their homes temporarily.”
“:Then we exploit them in executing crimes of murder in the service of Arab political purposes”
Syria’s Prime Minister, Khaled al-Azam, admitted, in his 1973 memoirs:
-----“We brought destruction upon the refugees, by calling on them to leave their homes.”

On April 28, 1948, Sir Alan Cunningham, the last British High Commissioner in Palestine stated:
--A total evacuation was urged by higher Arab quarters.

John Troutbeck, Head of the British Middle East Office, in Cairo (June 1949):
--- “The refugees know who their enemies are – their Arab brothers who persuaded them to leave their homes…”

Ismayil Safwat, Commander-in–Chief of the Arab Liberation Army (March 23,1948):
---- “The Jews have not attacked any Arab village, unless attacked first.”

The Commander-in-Chief of the Arab Liberation Army, Fawzi el-Kaukji, a
notorious Nazi collaborator, in August, 1947 threatened:
---“Should the UN vote the wrong way, we will initiate a total war… murder, wreck and ruin everything….”

On Nov. 24, 1947, the Acting Chairman of the (Palestinian) Arab Higher Committee, Jamal Al-Husseini, threatened:
----“Palestine shall be consumed with fire and blood if the Jews get any part of it.”

Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha, the first Secretary General of the ArabLeague told the Egyptian daily Akhbar al Yom on October 11, 1947:
--- “…This will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre, which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacres, or the Crusaders’ wars…. Each fighter deems death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise….The war will be an opportunity for vast plunder… ”

The Arab League orders exhorting the people to clear the way to the 7 Arab armies invading Israel
Refer: Bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957
------ : “”SEEK A TEMPORARY REFUGE IN NEIBOURING COUNTRIES, later to return to their abodes and OBTAIN THEIR SHARE OF ABANDONED JEWISH PROPERTY.””

Emile Goury secretary of the Palestinian committee said in the Beirut telegraph
----- “”The refugees are the consequence of the Arab states opposing the Jews state.””

Broadcasted by the Cyprus-based Near East on April 3, 1949;
-------“”The Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees’ flight from their homes.”

The first US Ambassador to Israel, James McDonald's My Mission in Israel (published in 1951, pages 174-6)
----- “The refugees were on Arab leaders hands as a result of a war, which they had begun and lost

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:37 AM

"You are refusing to condemn open santisemitism "

I have noted and condemned YOUR antisemitism. I have NOT seen any such postings by others here. YOU make a claim about Keith- the rest of the posters here have not seen what YOU claim is antisemitism, and from YOUR posts that DO demonstrate it, I would not trust what YOU say about the topic without real evidence- that YOU have always claimed and NEVER provided.

YOUR misunderstanding and mis-characterization of simple statements is NOT cause to think others here are as antisemitic as YOUR posts have been.

"1948 for ***** sake - people who weren't born then are being slaughtered now"

AS I NOTED, YOU are the one who brought up 1948- so fucking deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:40 AM

bob - so if you can be persuaded to look further forward than 1949..

Any positive ideas for a future relatively peaceful resolution...???

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:44 AM

"I have noted and condemned YOUR antisemitism"
Now you are lying
You have never produced antisemitism from me - you would have been screaming for my donation if you had
I am referring to Keith's antisemitism
If you refuse to condemn it you have no right to condemn annybody elses - as I say - you cannot pick and choose
Go and have a pint with Keith - he's about your level
Who knows, you might find some "self hating Jews" who who can talk a little humanity into you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:47 AM

Bruce- I have at least twice in this thread suggested that K***'s sympathy for jews is fake,
and he only tolerates those he finds convenient in pursuing right wing objectives...

I would hope any jews reading these threads regard him with mistrust and suspicion...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:52 AM

PFR,

Thank you for the warning.

I have to judge people by what they state in their posts ( and by what they REFUSE to answer, or discuss.)

I only know a few mudcatters well enough to make that kind of judgement beyond their posts.



I would hope any Muslims reading these threads regard JC with mistrust and suspicion...

And it is considered correct to capitalize Jew, like one capitalizes Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: bobad
Date: 11 May 18 - 10:53 AM

Any positive ideas for a future relatively peaceful resolution...???

You've asked me before and I answered you - my answer still applies.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:00 AM

"You have never produced antisemitism from me - you would have been screaming for my donation if you had"

I did- you never noticed it, or even acknowledged you had read it.
And AGAIN:
have noted antisemitism here- but primarily on YOUR posts.
***********************************************************
YOU hold Israel to a set of standards that you do NOT apply to other nations, leading one to believe that you are a bigot.
***********************************************************

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination (e.g. by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour).
Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation."
https://antisemitism.uk/definition/

SO PAY UP!!!


You have lost your right even to mention 1948 massacres and that will remain until you condemn the Muslims for the same activities you condemn Israel for.

"Until than it is about politics, pure and simple"

Obviously. If Israel had a far Left government, you would be happy with everything they do. Just look at your (lack of) reply to the Far Left Sinn Fein support of the Nazis.
http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html

http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.docs.html#jews

http://markhumphrys.com/sfira.nazis.html#holocaust



'Go and have a pint with Keith - he's about your level"

If you mean a decent person you have falsely accused in order to advance your own antisemitism, he may well be at my level. I cannot think that YOU have gotten that high, from your posts and your "tactics" in discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:06 AM

Bruce - I hope we can maintain a fair working rapport.
I'll apologise to you personally for lack of capital "J"s..

Please understand, because of my own quirks, I generally refuse to capitalise any deities or religions...
It is not my intention to single out any religion more than others for disrespect...

It might not sound much, but my 1/4 blood is having some influence on my own sense of identity.
Which is why I am curious to learn more of that part of my bloodline history..
and my own little place in this present day heritage.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:11 AM

Not a problem. Just pointing the common usage out- as long as you are consistent with ALL religions, I will not take offense.

But you should be careful of defending JC- As I said, he seems to have a tendency to only allow one side to be looked at, and NEVER admits that he might be less than correct. I find this a flaw, in reasonable discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:12 AM

IMO, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:17 AM

Bruce - I like and respect Jim, and need him to stay around for my own selfish learning reasons..
but don't really actively defend him...

He's his own man and big and tough enough to fight for himself
on occasions when it looks like he might have dug a hole a little too deep..

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:26 AM

"YOU hold Israel to a set of standards that you do NOT apply to other nations"
Where hae I ever done that?
I expect all nations to respect human life
Israel does not
I expect all nations to be answerable to internationsl laws
Isreal would rather close down International law courts rather than answer to their crimes
I condemn all nations who bahave in thet way
I have condemned Muslim countries, and Christian countries and well as my own and my chosen residence
You don't get it do you
I am discussing ordinary human beings - not Governments or organisations - I don't trust either
I will not condemn the Palestinians for fighting back any more than I did the Jews who fought the British
In the first case Israel is the aggressor, in the last Britain was the aggressor - on each case it was a case of people fighting aggression with every means at their disposal
I HAVE NEVER AT ANY TIME WILL I EVER DENY THE RIGHT OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE SELF DETERMINATION - SHOW WHERE i HAVE EVER DONE SO
My definition of antisemitism is and always has been the persecution and denigration of Jews.
AS far as I am concerned Israel no longer speaks for a people who the describe "self-hating" or "non-Jews" if they don't toe the party line - that is fascism
The term has been redefined to suit a political line so many times that it has become meaningless so until you can find me having denigrated the Jewish people you have no case
Keith gave an opinion on a song that suggested sending the Jewish people to be exterminated as unimportant and "silly"
You refuse even to address it - never mind condemn it
You have no case - you have no right to claim you speak on behalf of the Jewish people
Finished with you here - I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:44 AM

Your opinions, and you have the right to have them.

I do not agree with most of your comments. I also object strongly when YOU state what OTHERS must be because of YOUR opinions.

I NEVER claimed to be speaking for the "Jewish People"

I speak for myself, and give my opinion as best as I can. Being human, I may sometimes be wrong, or change my opinions as new facts come to my attention.

You ought to consider that you may also be human.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:54 AM

"No answer to anything I've said - no cigar
You refuse to condemn antismitism yet refuse accuse critics of Israel of antisemitism
Even if we work from your definition that makes you not only a hypocrite nut an antisemite

"I NEVER claimed to be speaking for the "Jewish People""
Just as well really!
"You ought to consider that you may also be human.
I do actually - regard both the shooting down of demonstrators and the defending of such totally inhuman - that is when you trio do
Please don't lecture me about humanity
And still you refuse to ever refer to Keith's antisemitism
Point made, I think
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 11:59 AM

"You refuse to condemn antismitism ""

NO. I have not, since you have never presented anything other than your warped view of what Keith said.



"And still you refuse to ever refer to Keith's antisemitism"

I see YOUR antisemitism, but have not seen HIS. IF I do, I will comment on it then.




"Please don't lecture me about humanity "

Why not? YOU seem to have no problem lecturing the rest of us on it.

Point made, I think

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 12:17 PM

Bruce - I've had a deeper think than usual this time of the afternoon..
and here I am back again instead of getting on with important chores..

I can only speak for myself, but all things considered, this may apply for others...???

I suggest the reason why so many threads are obsessed with Israel and not India
or other contentious regions, is..

K*****...!!!

Thinking back, I got hooked into all this many similar threads ago
simpley because of K****'s persistent pernicious cynical exploitation of Jewish issues
as an insincere ulterior motive for attacking the UK Labour Party,
and the decent moderate folk he vindictively maligns as the 'extremist left'....

To much extent, this has backfired for himself.
.. and Israel threads have since multiplied as he repeatedly squirms to justify himself
and desperately seek help from those he conives into supporting him...

I actually ought to thank him for giving me motivation to resist his bile
and learn more about, Jews, Israel, and myself in the process...!!!???


..and here we all are... yet again...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 12:32 PM

PFR,

UK politics is not of interest to me- no horse in the race.

I note that you don't like Keith- not my concern. I do NOT judge people here on other than what they post- IF he has offended you, I am not involved. He does bring up valid points that JC does not ever acknowledge, and presents facts that JC would rather not have think about (IMO).

But someone who brings up the past when it suits him, then in the SAME THREAD says we should not bring up the past is, at best, disingenuous, and at worst a danger to reasonable discussion. I find JC to be unwilling to consider other's opinions, when they differ from his pronouncements of what we should be thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 12:48 PM

Bruce - scaling up from this microcosm...

If we can think of K**** & Jim as USA v USSR [can't say who is which]

then the rest of us are smaller nations caught up jostling in shifting alliances amidst the eternal cold war,
sabre rattling and proxy battles...

In regards to K****,
like I always say..
I prefer to look for the best in folks and extend the hand of friendship and reconciliation..

But K**** has rejected this too often and persists in being divisive and objectionable..

So I told him straight - I will relate to him sarcastically with perseverance and disdain...

Until he either leaves mudcat of his own volition, or genuinely mends his ways more positively
and begins to show real respect for fellow mudcatters...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 12:53 PM

Between you and him.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 01:02 PM

"NO. I have not, since you have never presented anything other than your warped view of what Keith said."
I gave the quote verbatim - you explain it
"Why not? YOU seem to have no problem lecturing the rest of us on it. "
Not the rest of you Bruce - only the trio of you who defend mass murder
Most people are decent and intelligent human beings
And still you refuse to condemn Keith's antisemitism
Let's see if you are prepared to explain what it is if it is not just that
You can put that in the file next to "must explain Carroll's antisemitism" in your in tray
Ball's in your court now - your serve
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 01:09 PM

"And still you refuse to condemn Keith's antisemitism
Let's see if you are prepared to explain what it is if it is not just that
You can put that in the file next to "must explain Carroll's antisemitism" in your in tray "

Already explained YOUR antisemitism.

I don't see what YOU claim in Keith's post.Since I do not see what YOU claim, EXPLAIN it, and I will see if I agree it is antisemitism- YOU don't get to decide what I think.

" only the trio of you who defend mass murder "
And YOUR support of the Irish helping the Nazis? You are stating YOU are not a decent and intelligent human being?


I do not see mass murder where you do- I see it in the efforts of Palestinians to invade Israel and kill civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 01:43 PM

"Already explained YOUR antisemitism. "
Congratulations Bruce - you have now entered that great and noble circle of Antisemitism deniers
Your card and badge is in the post
"And YOUR support of the Irish helping the Nazis? "
Sigh....
Where have I
Won't hold my breath
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 01:43 PM

"Already explained YOUR antisemitism. "
Congratulations Bruce - you have now entered that great and noble circle of Antisemitism deniers
Your card and badge is in the post
"And YOUR support of the Irish helping the Nazis? "
Sigh....
Where have I
Won't hold my breath
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 01:56 PM

So, MY failure to condemn something YOU cannot explain makes ME a Antisemitism deniers, while YOUR failure to condemn the Irish support of Nazis in WWII makes you... a decent and intelligent human being?

NOPE.



If YOU haven't denied your anti-semitism, YOU are just perfect- I have not even seen the antisemitism that YOU claim Keith is guilty of, but MY failure to condemn it SIGHT UNSEEN make me what???


You really need to think through your claims- YOU condemn YOURSELF every time you try to attack others.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:05 PM

At this point, I'll remind that it was K**** & bobs hysterical malicious accusations of antisemitism,
just to upset and annoy good folks,
that kicked off much of this over heated rancour...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:07 PM

Still no acknowledgement of the stated facts. You are an anti-semite, and have shown it in many of your posts. Denying it does not make that fact go away.


No answer to anything I've said - no cigar

You just keep making the claim that I should condemn something YOU see, but cannot explain to anyone what it is- just that we MUST condemn it or you will call us anti-semites.


The first time you post that, you may be a wit.
The second time , a half-wit.
By now, you are a nit-wit.

Better quit while you are ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:12 PM

As posted in another thread:

"We have to remind ourselves that the offender does not get to decide what is offensive; that perception belongs to those offended. "


YOU offend me.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:15 PM

PFR,
I'll remind that it was K**** & bobs hysterical malicious accusations of antisemitism,

Let's see a quote then. No more malicious, baseless accusations please.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:32 PM

pop goes the sly weasel...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:32 PM

Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar said: “What’s the problem if hundreds of thousands storm this fence which is not a border of a state? What’s the problem with that?“
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-israel-shot-dead-border-march-gunfire-palestine-sinwar-hamas-a8347366.html

It has been the border of the state of Israel since its inception.
Hamas denies Israel the right to exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:34 PM

pop goes the sly weasel...

So no quote. Just another baseless personal attack.
Anything to say on the subject yet PFR?

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 May 18 - 02:53 PM

Pfr - "Alexa - how do we human beings, and artificial intelligence devices like yourself,
communicate effectively with unintelligent entities...???"

Alexa - "Eff off human, he's your problem not mine... Have a nice day..."

Pfr - "Well thank's a lot you not particularly helpful robot..
play music track Pop goes the Weasel as recorded by any artist in Prime library instead..."...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:08 PM

Still no acknowledgement of the stated facts. You are an anti-semite, and have shown it in many of your posts. Denying it does not make that fact go away."
Proving it establisheds I have made all thes statements
None forthcoming yet
Tou are now resorting to openly lying
"You just keep making the claim that I should condemn something YOU see, but cannot explain to anyone what it is-"
I have done - several times - as the statment is produced word for word, it is not necessary
Robo tried to wiggle out of it that way and appears to have fallen on his sword
There is nothing to explain - Keith dismissed antisemitic poetry demanding the death of Jews as "silly" and "unimportant and compared it to a sit-com song
The poem was written a year or so before the Nazis sent six million Jews to their deaths
What is so impenetrable about that?
You've moved on from this and are now openly supporting it
"NO. I have not, since you have never presented anything other than your warped view of what Keith said.?
Game, set and match on this one, I think!
Now - where are all these examples of my antisemitism and whare is your proof that I supported Irish support of the Nazis ?
Chiding name-calling of the type you are now indulging in is a sure sign of your having painted yourself into a corner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:08 PM

Still no acknowledgement of the stated facts. You are an anti-semite, and have shown it in many of your posts. Denying it does not make that fact go away."
Proving it establisheds I have made all thes statements
None forthcoming yet
Tou are now resorting to openly lying
"You just keep making the claim that I should condemn something YOU see, but cannot explain to anyone what it is-"
I have done - several times - as the statment is produced word for word, it is not necessary
Robo tried to wiggle out of it that way and appears to have fallen on his sword
There is nothing to explain - Keith dismissed antisemitic poetry demanding the death of Jews as "silly" and "unimportant and compared it to a sit-com song
The poem was written a year or so before the Nazis sent six million Jews to their deaths
What is so impenetrable about that?
You've moved on from this and are now openly supporting it
"NO. I have not, since you have never presented anything other than your warped view of what Keith said.?
Game, set and match on this one, I think!
Now - where are all these examples of my antisemitism and whare is your proof that I supported Irish support of the Nazis ?
Chiding name-calling of the type you are now indulging in is a sure sign of your having painted yourself into a corner
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 May 18 - 03:27 PM

No, JC. You are, again, incorrect.


Even saying it twice will not make it so- the requirement is 3 times, and you have to be Sidhe for it to be effective.

Next thing you will do is declare all Tom Lehrer admirers to be Nazis...

Subject: RE: BS: Israel's Sharpville
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 18 - 07:19 PM

I assume you are not going to provide evidence of my antisemitism nor of my supporting Irish Nazism !!
Nor are you going to condemn antisemitism from a friend
Maany thanks for providing such a fine example of modern day Israel and it's supporters
Jim Carroll