UK Folk Revival 2018

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 06:04 AM

"I suppose I am just lucky."
Would taht everyone were as lucky as you Dave
These threads are started because many aren't and people need to start respecting that fact
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Johnny J
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 06:18 AM

"Nowadays I'm far more concerned that future generations get as much interest and enjoyment as I have"

Mmm, I think future generations will be in a far more fortunate position than we were as regard making choices. They will have access to vast archives, recordings and so on whether it be from libraries, CDs, online resources or wherever. Unlike in our day, they can easily access any genre of music they wish and, if it appeals, they can then go and seek it out. If it isn't being performed in folk clubs or other venues, then they can motivate themselves and peers to do it for themselves.

If they aren't really interested, then fair enough. We can't force them.

I do realise that much of "the tradition" was almost lost and that it took great efforts to "revive" same. Therefore, those of us who lived through the "folk revival" of the fifties and sixties feel very protective of "the folk club scene" with which we grew up.

However, the music and songs will always be there for those who really want them.

Personally, I'm very selective about where I choose to listen to music (and my tastes actually extend beyond trad and and folk). I've never been entirely satisfied with the music policy of any folk club and today is no different. There has always been good, bad, and irrelevant...all in my own opinion, of course.

As others have commented, folk and traditional music is not the exclusive preserve of folk clubs. You can hear it within Arts Centres, Concert Halls, The Pub, Cafes, Community/Church Halls etc. We have a great variety of informal arrangements these days too. From pub sessions and singarounds, community choirs and bands/orchestras, folk music classes and so on.
There is also an abundance of festivals... All fiddle, all harp, all singing, all dancing, and mixtures of all. Some commercial, others not.
Of course, we will all have different views about the validity and usefulness of such things but it is quite clear that much is happening outwith and beyond the narrow confines of the "folk club".

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Johnny J
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 06:20 AM

Further to my last post, was it Karl Dallas who said something along the lines of

"Folk Clubs exist so that one day they will no longer need to exist..." ?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 07:50 AM

I go along with some of what you say, but apart from the very early days there has always been plenty to choose from - some readily accessible, some needing a bit of searching out - worth it, as far as I'm concerned
For me, the search has often been a major part in the pleasure
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 09:06 AM

If you describe Calan as a 'mish mash' of sounds then there really is no point continuing to discuss this with you. One of the finest young bands around and indisputably folk.

You stick to your narrow introverted view of what folk is Jim and Ob and I'll continue to enjoy the huge range of high quality music making by young people who will keep folk alive long after we have gone

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 09:13 AM

"If you describe Calan as a 'mish mash' of sounds then there really is no point continuing to discuss this with you."
I realised that some time ago
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:12 AM

I listened to two tracks of calan, they are competent, but do not particularly do much for me, all a matter of taste, for example apparition a bit over arranged and vocals should be more to the fore and instruments too loud in relation to vocals, difficult to hear what the song is about on occasions, and long instrumental breaks in between imo do nothing to enhance the story line,
Synnwyr Solomon starts off better and vocal balance in reltion to instruments is a little better Calan do seem to be more about creating unusual sound than importance of lyrics
.Whatever happened to folk music being about simplicity.
I would rather listen to donovan singing colours, or jill pidd singing lord bateman unaccompanied than the kind of arrangements that calan do., all a matter of taste.
i believe joe g runs a folk club, is it the topic at bradford? if he does i find it rather sad that an organiser believes this group are the finest folk band, Synnwyr Solomon apparntly is a tradtional song, but the musical balance and treatment needs attention.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:24 AM

Sandman,

Joe G. didn't say Calan "are the finest folk band". He said they are "One of the finest young bands around"

Be sad no more!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:40 AM

well if it classifies as folk rock.in my opinion they are inferior to steeleye span compare it to stteleys span lark in the morning in 1971 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVYGANALIgk, folk rock has not progressed but digressed, calan one of the finest bands around, i depair

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:40 AM

GUEST JoeG - Just listened to Sail Plattern's "The Bonny Ship the Diamond", it would have been better had they let it severely alone, or restricted themselves to playing it as an instrumental number.

On Calan, all I can say is that on the Continent, over in the USA, in Canada and throughout the UK there are similar bands equally as good, the only point of difference is that some of Calan's material is in Welsh. Used to see bands like them right, left and centre at every festival you'd go to. Thankfully not so much now, they all sound exactly the same and after 15-20 minutes the audience goes "fiddle deaf".

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:40 AM

Yes that is correct Guest - I simply used them as an example of the many superb young bands - I've seen them live a number of times and they have always been very enjoyable and contrary to some of the opinions voiced here their stagecraft is excellent. Amusing and informative.

I'll check out your recommendation Dick - sounds interesting

I have been involved in the Topic and was the booking secretary for just over a year but that was a while ago. In that time I maintained the clubs eclectic booking policy inviting trad, contemporary, blues and a folk / jazz fusion band from Denmark to play at the club. I think the success of the club that year (and its continuing success) suggests that my choices of artists were sound :-) )

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:45 AM

I like Blackbeard's Tea Party.

There, I have said it now. Fire away :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:45 AM

I'm sure they'll be pleased to hear your criticism chaps if they can hear it above the enthusiasm of their thousands strong audiences at festivals such as Shrewsbury :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:49 AM

bloody hell.. that was a long dreary read since I last posted here.. I'm exhausted...

The only relief was being introduced to the band Calan - they sound good...

cheers for that Joe...




So basically some folks like their trad folk flavour like a good refreshing pint glass of beer or cider,

Youngsters prefer it sweeter like a can of cola or tizer, sucked through a straw

But an even smaller minority within this small niche minority interest music culture
prefer their trad folk flavoured more like cod liver oil, syrup of figs, and milk of magnesia
all mixed together in the same grubby tarnished pewter tankard...

.. I'll have a pint of rough cider with a tizer top, thanks...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:54 AM

Ha ha! I'll keep to the beer but where music goes anything that sounds good and is well played, sung and arranged will do for me - and a few old blokes sat around singing dirges is not my idea of a good night out - I know I've been to too many in the past!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:55 AM

Sandman,

Is it really fair comparing them to Steeleye Span? How many other bands, in the whole history of folk, would stand up to that comparison?

They are young, making their own way and learning.

Cut them some slack and I'm sure, given 40 years or so, they'll be as boring as the rest of us!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:55 AM

Glad you like Calan pfr - well worth seeing live as I said earlier

Also check out Mabon if you don't know them

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 11:57 AM

Observer - btw.. makes no difference to me if you are keith or not
[a 50/50 guess based on plausible indications..]
or an entire team of obnoxious conceited malcontents posting under the same guest name...

Any of us could log out and post as Observer and claim any old bollocks as the truth... so effin what...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:14 PM

Joe - circa 1979, when I was about 20, me and my girlfiend had a night out at a folk club a bus ride outside of Leeds..

We were young, vibrant, enthusiastic for new experiences...

That was enough to put me off 'folk clubs' for the rest of my life..

..it was more like happy clappy sunday school..

I've tried dipping in others a few times in the decades since...
and enjoyed some of what was on offer

but it's just not for me...

I prefer the atmosphere of a proper down to earth unpretentious working man's club...

[but not many of them surviving either, that haven't been tidied up and refurbed to death...]

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:19 PM

I caught a bit of Bob Williamson on the Wheeltappers and Shunters social club on YouTube the other day. Now, there was a proper club and proper folk music :-D

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:21 PM

"girlfiend"
Should she have been allowed out ?? :-)

"If you describe Calan as a 'mish mash' of sounds then there really is no point continuing to discuss this with you."
Are we not allowed an to hold an opinion
I thought it was only the 'folk police' who objected to tastes other than their own?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:34 PM

Jim - bugger... I just noticed that speeling mistak...

well in the last year of our relationship, she did turn into a bit of a fiend...

I blame it on the traumatic experience of that folk club...!!!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:48 PM

pfr - I was very lucky to be introduced to folk through the Nursery Folk Club in Hartlepool which, as well as an eclectic booking policy, also had one of the best crowds of people you could hope to meet as the organisers and audience. I was really disappointed when I moved away that not all clubs were like that......

I attended the Topic off and on for many years once I moved to Bradford only finally becoming a weekly attendee when the club moved to a pub I had a direct bus connection to. Instead of only going to see people I had heard of I started going to see everyone and made some great discoveries. Later I got involved with the Committee and as mentioned above was the booking sec for just over a year - this was after I had spent a similar period booking artists for pub gigs and helping in the organisation of a few festivals. So it looks like there is no hope for me :-)

Since moving to York there are so many opportunities for listening to music of all genres I don't go to a club as often and a lot of time is spent promoting my own roots and Americana gigs.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 12:56 PM

How to get old folkies in a rage

and how to tip them over the edge

:-D

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 01:22 PM

Oddly I am not keen on BTP (but see absolutely nothing wrong in what they do just doesn't grab me)

But I did love Bellowhead ;-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 01:30 PM

I would recommend grannys attic or the young uns, as reasonably good bands

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 02:02 PM

Ahh memories... here's a band we used to like 25 years ago down here in Scrumpyshire...

https://www.shazam.com/track/5441358/bjorn-again-polka

Live - one of our favourites at 10min 40secs


This about as much as a quick google turns up..
the live sound is too weak and thin - that's a shame...

Yeah... I went to the first WOMAD Festival at Shepton Mallet in 1982..
which sums up the eclectic sound of Bristol in the early to mid 80s..

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 02:28 PM

Still doing occasional gigs as E2 pfr

I did mention Granny's Attic and the Young 'Uns - I'd suggest they are better than 'reasonably good', Dick. The Young 'Uns most recent album is full of superb songs written by Sean Cooney

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 02:52 PM

On a bit of a tangent, but sparked off by thoughts on this thread...

I like the idea of folk 'fusion' music in principle, but very often don't think much of the results...
Maybe, whatever genre is being fused with trad folk,
it usually tends to end up too smug and M.O.R...???

not enough grit and balls...

I got into 'Americana', particularly the 'Gothic' depressing variant 20 ish years ago..
and discovered some great bands that satisfied me at that time...

That actually challenged my prejudice towards Country and Western,
and I ended up learning to enjoy a lot of the music I hated when I was a kid,
and my uncle dominated family parties with his C&W LPs...

A similar process could potentially happen with kids who think they hate trad folk...???


hmmmm.. dunno...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 02:56 PM

Yep I alluded to that earlier but you'd probably lost the will to live by then ;-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:03 PM

Been trying to find the tracks by a guy with the stage name of Broadcaster who did some brilliant mixes of techno with samples of the Radio Ballads but can't track them down.

Of course Chumbawamba are a great example of a mix of more popular music and folk. Their Readymades CD that used samples of folk singers remains one of my favourites. Of course Biff Whalley of the band is also a superb song writer himself

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:23 PM

Ah found the Broadcaster album. Great to hear it again. Though I've switched to the Proms now for Sibelius 2 :-)

https://broadcasteruk.com/primary-transmission/

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:24 PM

As approved by Peggy Seeger :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:01 AM

This seems to have been turned into a fanzine thread
What a shame - it showed such promise
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:28 AM

The title is UK Folk Revival 2018 Jim and many of the links provided are to current bands so very relevant to the thread. Dredging up the past is more likely to detract from it.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:46 AM

Dredging up the past is more likely to detract from it. "No, I dredged up a 1971 clip of folk rock band steeleye which illuStrated that the balance of instruments to vocals compared to Calan was better,AND THAT THE CLIP OF CALAN WAS,showed that they were to put it politely a work in progress. I could provide clips from the past of the wilson family that shows how good they wereand still are. the young uns and grannys atic are un my opinion groups that are doing it well.
learning from the past is essential, particularly from tradtional performers singers and musicians helps to keep the roots of the music strong

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:47 AM

"The title is UK Folk Revival 2018 Jim and many of the links provided are to current bands so very relevant to the thread. "
If it's dealt with in these "I like" terms without putting forward why they like them it becomes fanzine, especially as some of those being put forward as as far from folk song as Maria Callas
We actually started to discuss what we expected from a folk-song club and why some of us had stopped going
We may not have got agreement on what we wanted but at least we got an opportunity to say why we thought things had gone wrong
Not discussing that guarantees than nothing will change
Pity
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:47 AM

Thanks Dave. Exactly - I have only shared suggestions of artists so that those interested can discover music that may be new to them and to demonstrate that folk is thriving, and being made relevant to new audiences, through the work of those artists.

Of course if one's position is that of not being interested in a vibrant future for folk then there will be nothing of interest

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 03:57 AM

I can think of no better way to put young people off folk for life than to play them Walter Pardon singing Cupid the Ploughboy.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:00 AM

however i have not heard any instrumental music in the uk that is as high in standard as music in county clare and kerry, Some of the young and old performers in the uk folk revival are very good as regards song but some seem to be tempted by commercialism which puts over arrangement and trying to create a new sound before clarity and meaning of lyrics, i do realise that the need to try new ideas is important but if should not be to the detriment of being able to hear words, to go in the direction of intersting soud to the detriment of words can be one of the products of commercilism, commercial music often has nothing challenging to say but goes for a wall of sound example phil spector.
GOOD TRADTIONAL SONGS AND GOOD MODERN SOCIAL COMMENT SONGS SUCH AS PALACES OF GOLD do not need over arrangement or the phil spector treatment

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:07 AM

I can think of no better way to put young people off folk for life than to play them Walter Pardon singing Cupid the Ploughboy."
Well i know at least three young people in the uk who were turned on by listening to old unaccompanied singers, and i have heard some very good young unacompanied singers here in ireland

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:14 AM

"I can think of no better way to put young people off folk for life than to play them Walter Pardon singing Cupid the Ploughboy.""
Which is a pretty good summation of what's gone wrong with folk song
Walter epitomise=ied what good folk singing was - if you can't sell him you may as well forget folk song
Hoew dare yo troll this thread by insulting our best performers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:16 AM

If it's dealt with in these "I like" terms without putting forward why they like them it becomes fanzine

Fair comment, Jim. I like Blackbeard's Tea Party because they are vibrant and talented. I posted the links on here as a good example of what is driving the current folk revival. There are many others of course.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:17 AM

I agree they don't NEED it but there is absolutely no harm in them having it. As I stated earlier there will be people who have not heard folk music before who could be attracted in to the source material thanks to the efforts of artists who did different things with the music. Look how many people attended Bellowhead gigs across the country at the height of their career. I don't think all of those would have been follies before but I bet a decent number are now!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:18 AM

My comment above was really Dick's comment on Palaces of Gold

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:20 AM

Sorry 're' - predictive sex ;-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:21 AM

Jim, you have spent a good part of this thread disparaging the artists that people like yet when someone does the same to an artist you like you have a go at them. Is that not somewhat hypocritical?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:31 AM

Fair point Dave!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:39 AM

"Jim, you have spent a good part of this thread disparaging the artists that people like yet when someone"
I have said why I feel as I do about their performance that is not disparaging them
It would have been hypocritical for me not to have said what I though
I say they have nothing to do with folk song

Commenting on a band who plays publicly used to be known as fair criticism in my day

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 18 - 04:56 AM

Commenting on a band who plays publicly used to be known as fair criticism in my day

Then surely, by that same rule, commenting on anyone who has done anything publicly, including Walter Pardon, is fair criticism is it not?