UK Folk Revival 2018

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:13 AM

in my opinion ,the most important issue is to move away from passive consumerism, that people should start making their own music, preferably for the ideal of doing it forcreativitys sake if people canmake money without taking the music far from its roots that is ok

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 08:24 AM

"I know this might embarrass you Jim"
Not in the slightest Ake - we can agree and disagree any time

Where are these singers Dave and why are so many people complaining about not finding them
Soe time ago I was told if I wanted to hear sood singing all I had to deo was jump aon a train and go to Lewes

I have no doubt that there are some good singers and some good clubs - but nowhere near enough of them to make any impact on the everlasting problem of getting our music recognised and taken seriously
The newbies seem to be encouraged to "make a name for themselves" - that was never what it was about for us
Sure - we had our 'showcase' clubs - I was proud to be part of one of the best of them, but at the same time we had ourmore democratic clubs and probably most importantly, we had our workshops to bring on our own singing and help newcomers through their first tottering steps

I was archivist for a long-running workshop and have been bequeathed that archive as the worksop ran its course over fifteen years
I have been trying to pass digitised copies of our recordings on to any British Club who will use it for the same purpose we did - to encourage the singing of traditional songs
So far - not a nibble and it looks like our old singers will be giving their all for Irish listeners in the future
A bleedin' shame, as far as I'm concerned - for me and for the English scene

"does not mean they do not exist."
Your insistence is a litle like a story a friend related about discussing fairies with an old musician's wife
He asked her - "Do you believe in the fairies Cissie?"
"Of course I don't" came the reply, "but they're there all right"
Where is this invisible army of yours?
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:28 AM

That's the first time I have ever agreed with you ake!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:32 AM

My comment above referred to a blank thread from ake which has disappeared :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 09:38 AM

That was a bit harsh Joe, considering that I am under a tight leash these days......but fear not my time will come. :0)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:26 AM

Jim - I could list at least the names of at least 20 performers under the age of 30 that I have seen at Swinton and other clubs that I have attended but what would be the point? You will not have heard of any of them and accuse me of making it up. I could also list the tour dates of people like Jim Moray, which include folk clubs, but again you would brush it off as either 'invisible' or not folk. There is no point discussing it as we will never agree.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:45 AM

The army is there Jim, because 'folk'   are there.Folk music is not the hothouse flower requiring seminars from professors and aficionados.

It is a tide arising in breast of humankind. The will to perform, the will to create. And ordinary people from all societies have this within them.


The reason you can't pinpoint who was the original Wild Rover is because he was of no interest to the class of people who attend seminars on folk music.

And somewhere his distant inheritor is writing the follow up with a nose flute a triangle and a synthesiser. And none of us know where he is, or who he is. He's part of the invisible army. Don't sneer at him. His distant relations wrote all your favourite ballads.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:49 AM

"I have seen at Swinton and other clubs that"
I know Swinton well
Bit difficult to get to Birmingham or Leeds or London or Brighton - or even Liverpool - and back in one night I seem to remember
I'm not denying there are pockets of good singers - I'm sure there are
I am talking about the picture nationwide

I won't mention Jim Moray - I had a head-to-head with him about the traditional nature of his singing on this forum
He seems not to like constructive criticism
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 10:55 AM

I'm not denying there are pockets of good singers

Good. That's a start.

I have already said that my experience in folk clubs, albeit long in years, is limited geographically. I cannot comment on the nationwide picture and can only go off what other people tell me. From what I see on here there are more people saying that there are good young singers attending clubs in their area than there are saying that young singers do not attend folk clubs. This forum is the closest thing we have to an international picture of what is going on and if the majority are saying there is not an issue, there is no reason to disbelieve them.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:18 AM

Howard Jones: There are plenty of young musicians performing excellent music, they are just not (on the whole) doing it in the folk clubs. They don't want to be part of the turgid and boring folk scene that far too many clubs have turned into, and which are inhabited largely by people old enough to be their parents and grandparents - any more than we did when we were young. They are finding their own opportunities and venues to perform, including festivals, house concerts and the more vibrant folk clubs which still maintain good standards of performance.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Absolutely, a point I've made here many times when this subject comes around for the nth time!

Dave The Gnome: Jim - I could list at least the names of at least 20 performers under the age of 30 that I have seen at Swinton and other clubs that I have attended but what would be the point? You will not have heard of any of them and accuse me of making it up.

I've probably listed at least that number of excellent sub-30 performers here in the last couple of years, often with links to examples of their performances.

Big Al: The army is there Jim, because 'folk'   are there.Folk music is not the hothouse flower requiring seminars from professors and aficionados.

It is a tide arising in breast of humankind. The will to perform, the will to create. And ordinary people from all societies have this within them.

The reason you can't pinpoint who was the original Wild Rover is because he was of no interest to the class of people who attend seminars on folk music.

And somewhere his distant inheritor is writing the follow up with a nose flute a triangle and a synthesiser. And none of us know where he is, or who he is. He's part of the invisible army. Don't sneer at him. His distant relations wrote all your favourite ballads.

Spot on! :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:21 AM

"Good. That's a start. "
I've never denied it Dave
I hope there are good young singers but again, the comments here lead me to believe them to be few and far between and the attitude and motivation of some leaves much to be desired - far from the singing for the ove of it approach
So many seem to want to "make it in the folk world" and are prepared to do whatever it takes to the songs to achieve it
The last thing that folk song needs now is another Music Industry led folk scene
One of the problems of aiming for this is attracting the attention of the predatory Performing Right's crown waiting ready to stick a price tag on what you do
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:28 AM

DtG - There are no real issues apart from in the minds of out of touch malcontents like KObserverwho
want to kick up a fight for the sake of it...

What else have they got to validate their continued existence...???

Jim excepted, as at least he has credibility, and real intelligence and substance to back up his views,
even though we might not entirely agree with him...

I also tend to agree with some of Ake's position on the middle class appropriation & commodification
of near extict working class folk traditions...

[or Ake agrees with me... whichever.. does it matter..
we are both onto an uncomfortable truth for a folkie elite...???]

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:29 AM

the comments here lead me to believe them to be few and far between

Sorry, Jim, but are we reading the same thread? There are far more comments on here saying they do exist tnat they do not. In fact, it is only yourself, Ake and Guest Observer that are saying there is a problem I think.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:37 AM

The last thing that folk song needs now is another Music Industry led folk scene."
I agree

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:44 AM

..ohhh.. dunno...

..might be interesting seeing the 'mature' Spice Girls and Betty Boo
making Saturday teatime telly comebacks as trad folk singers...???

..should at least be more fun than the polite and sophisticated bland folkie toss on BBC4...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 11:54 AM

"No attitude involved Leveller, merely recalling what I have seen.

They do not attend Folk Clubs as they do not get paid what they are told on their courses to expect to be paid.

They do not attend Folk Clubs because they do not want, and are not prepared to listen to others do or perform."

:) :) :)!You really do make me laugh, Observer (was that ever a misnomer!). You're so pompous but, as others have said, you've absolutely no idea of how and where the majority of young people make or enjoy music. Who is this 'they' you're talking about? (OK, you probably once talked to a folk performer who'd done a degree course and wanted paying as he/she intended to make it a career). Perhaps you need to get out more and talk to some real kids instead of trying to cite your prejudices as fact. On the other hand, don't bother - if you've nothing good or encouraging to say, they really won't be interested.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 12:14 PM

I remember one regular young attendee at a folk club being told by an MC not to bother bringing her guitar down to the club the following week as it would be busy with other singers - he then hogged about 20 minutes for himself that week to sing unaccompanied (badly) whilst everyone headed to the bar - what great encouragement! Fortunately following those incidents that MC was given his marching orders by the committee shortly afterwards and the young lady in question is doing rather well on the folk and acoustic music circuit :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 12:19 PM

in my case, it wasn't so much I wanted 'to make it in the folk world'. I think the acknowledgement that I was a folk, whose folk music had a degree of validity would have sufficed.

you've got to admit, there were some right snotty buggers around in the 1970's.

That was what was so nice about Peggy and Ewan - they were accepting of what I was, what I did. They were respectful. Couldn't say the say the same for some of their disciples.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 12:20 PM

"I won't mention Jim Moray - I had a head-to-head with him about the traditional nature of his singing on this forum
He seems not to like constructive criticism
Jim"

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:02 PM

Will you please not nause up this thread
Can you cite any example where I have objected to positive criticism - of course you can't
I may argue strongly - that's commitment - certainly not resentment at being challenged
I thought that was why er are all here
Obviously not
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:05 PM

Daave
I've been arguing this point for many years - I am referring to overall, not this thread
I aked earlier to go anc count the number of lubs and put them up beside the number of people and clubs and everything else we have lost
The math says it all
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:16 PM

"They do not attend Folk Clubs as they do not get paid what they are told on their courses to expect to be paid.

They do not attend Folk Clubs because they do not want, and are not prepared to listen to others do or perform."

:) :) :)!You really do make me laugh, Observer"

Those two statements would be my observations and experience too. It's very sad that someone should find it funny.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:29 PM

and everything else we have lost

It has not been lost Jim. Just changed. The new formats may not suit you. The old formats did not suit others. In the 1960s and 70s there was no such thing as an open mic night. They now abound. 40 or 50 years ago there was nothing like the number of festivals we have now. Things change. If you want to run an old style folk club, fine, no one will stop you. But to decry what is happening now simply because it is not the same as it was then is a fruitless excercise.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:32 PM

Just who are these people who will not attend folk clubs because they will not get paid what their courses told them to expect? Who is it that will not listen to others perform? Come on, name some names! Or, if you don't want to do that, what percenbtage of youngsters do you think are like that? I am sure there must be some but I don't know any.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:37 PM

Dave
The whole thrust of 'making it' is what is driving what is left of the revival
Anybody can get up people's noss by naming names and then people would be upin in arms for belittling (or defending) not the way to go
What have the thousands of people who have desrted the scene "changed to"
Or the clubs or magazines - or the dearth of album.....?
Why not respond to the facts rather ahan blindly defending a sinking ship
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:39 PM

I know
Thay've all changed int empy chairs
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:45 PM

I am not defending anything, Jim. Yes, the old folk club is dying. As are lots of things. They did not keep up with the times and so have been consigned to the grave. We still make our own music. We still listen to traditional songs. Just in a different place and in a different way. Long live the new order!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:54 PM

Simple question...

who really knows what percentage of young folk singers/musicians are graduating from degree courses
and seeking lucrative professional careers..
or what percentage, whether they have studied and qualified or never bothered with formal education,
are just doing it for the fun and sense of aceivement of being a good amateur...???

..or maybe occasional gigs as a semi pro...???

I don't know... Many other more sensible mudcatters probably don't know either..

But KObserver and a muttering minority of similar 'experts',
seems to be absolutely convinced and certain of these statistics...

If bitter jealousy of the opportunities of youth is an issue,
why not set up a U3A course to rival those pesky ambitious student kids...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 02:57 PM

..it's all about networking anyway, and public school folkies will always have that best advantage...

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:03 PM

Why not just to the facts odf diminishing number status and future and most importantly You can no longer go to a folk club and be garanteed a folk song during the course of the evening - in fact , in some I have been in, you are guaranteed not to hear one.
Once you have robbed the punter of the right to hear what he has paid for you have robbed him/her of their choice
THat is why the clubs are in the mess they are
"Yes, the old folk club is dying. "
and has been replaced by what - certainly not folk music
If that's what you want from a folk club the scene deserves to die
The very name claims to represent folk music - it the clubs aren't doing that they are operating a con
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:13 PM

"They did not keep up with the times and so have been consigned to the grave."
You really can't have it both ways Dave - one minute you say it's as good as it always was - the next minute it's somebody elses fault that it isn't
Your triumphalist crowing like a cock on a midden is very saddening - especially from you - gou are gloating of a hostile takeover as wopf Goldman Sachs
The real loser her is the poeplee's music that we once tried so hard to promore
That's what your buddies have destroyed
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:49 PM

The sad thing Dave is they nobody ahs gained out of this - folk music hasn't - your music hasn't - your "keeping up with the times " has destroyed the scene
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 03:52 PM

No one has 'destroyed' folk. It is probably in better shape now than it has been for years thanks to the engagement of the very youth you seem to despise so much. Granny's Attic, Young 'Uns (though not so young now), Calan, Sail Pattern to name just a tiny number of outstanding artists who are reinvigorating folk

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:10 PM

I have only ever said that the old folk club is being replaced by the new order Jim. There is no "crowing" not have I, or my "buddies" (who you have never met) destroyed anything. I have said specifically that the folk club I was most involved with is still going strong after almost 40 years. That is because we have accepted new ideas and new people without ever excluding traditional music. It is a very broad church with room for everyone and while we can never please everyone, we must have done something right.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 04:52 PM

A question from pfr:

who really knows what percentage of young folk singers/musicians are graduating from degree courses and seeking lucrative professional careers..

Guess round my neck of the woods a friend of mine might - their occupation? Senior Lecturer on one of those University Courses.

Now according to some posting here who are trying to tell us all that things are going so well, I in turn would like to ask them a question.

Are new folk clubs opening where these youngsters are playing and performing. How many of those clubs opened up near you?

So far on this forum there has been a litany bemoaning the number of festivals that are disappearing - not really a sign of a healthy vibrant scene that all these youngsters can take advantage of.

Two venues locally that serve as being indicative of alternatives to the local folk clubs:

The first insists on a very high performance standard, and mainly focuses on playing as opposed to singing, no floor spots, all performers are booked well in advance.

The second is organised as a sort of "Open Mic" run over the course of the summer for the benefit of local charities. Youngsters are encouraged but in the main what they perform are pop covers or self penned material in the pop idiom, perhaps you might consider them to be part of this youth revival - only fly in the ointment there is that they are not the least bit interested in folk music (And probably never will be).

Just to set your mind at ease pfr, I am NOT Keith A of Hertford, apologies if this upsets your mission.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:22 PM

Perhaps one of you erudite experts can define 'folk music'.
Then the rest of us commoners can just get on with listening to what we enjoy.
Roger

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 05:45 PM

GUEST Joe G - No one has 'destroyed' folk. - taking just one of what in your opinion is a band representative of the outstanding artists who are reinvigorating folk Sail Pattern. They pretty much make a comprehensive job of destroying "Spanish Ladies" a traditional song dating back to around the middle of the 18th century. Guess they didn't appreciate the uniqueness of the song, so they felt compelled to rewrite it along with the seemingly compulsory over extended periods of instrumental masturbation..

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:03 PM

That is your opinion to which you are welcome - I've seen Sail Pattern several times - though not for a while. I remember loving their version of Spanish Ladies. I also love the original. Both can exist not just the version you prefer. The Sail Pattern version may pique the interest of people who might not have heard the song before and who may wish to find out more about it and possibly then about other folk songs. That is how the tradition will survive - not through a group of ageing people (of which I count myself as one) sitting round in a room bemoaning the fact no one wants to join their merry crew

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:49 PM

Along similar lines - though not a direct comparison. When I was around 19 (and already a folk, classical and rock fan) I didn't think I liked jazz. I had moved to Winchester from Hartlepool (the home of a superb and usually packed folk club with an eclectic booking policy) so initially I spent a lot of evenings alone until I made friends. One night I wandered into a pub where there was a jazz band playing. Thinking I'd have a quick pint then find somewhere else I sat down. The band started playing - a Beatles song, can't remember which, but with improvisations around the melody. 'Ah this isn't too bad I thought' I could understand what they were doing. They played a few more. I never looked back and as I am typing this I am listening to Jazz on 3 :-) Now I dare say I may have got into jazz at some point without that band as I was very open to new experiences but it would not have happened so quickly

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 20 Aug 18 - 06:52 PM

Ha - by an amazing coincidence as I was typing the above there was an interview on Jazz on 3 with Greg Lawson and an extract from his orchestration of Martyn Bennett's Bothy Culture which Ake and I locked horns over earlier this year :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 03:52 AM

"No one has 'destroyed' folk. "#
THen where is it?
We are told by Dave and have been in the past that it is no longer relevant and we have to "keep up with the times"
You can'r be both right
DEspite you claims and protests, the number of people now involved in genuine folk song has shrunk to a dogged few
The term "folk" has been used as a cultural dustbin to cover anything any individual chooses it to cover
You can't plan a night out on that basis, let alone discuss it intelligently
When thousands of folk enthusiasts walked away from the scene we were not replaced by enthusiasts for the "new" folk because there was no identifiable genre to be identified
I've just dug out Sail Pattern - the type of 'fplk rendition' we used to indulge in after a night at the pub - totally lacking in musical and narrative interpretation in a very strange accent
Sorry, if that's the best you can come up with I think my point is made
That is what I would regard as poor pop songs lacking the talent of Rod Stewart, who did similar things with folk songs

Calan - a mish-mash of over-amplified sounds - no reason not to like it but nothing to do with folk singing - as the veteran jazz musician said in 'Round Midnight' - their notes are fine but where's their story?"
If this is what passsses for folk - god help us all

"There is no "crowing"
No?
"Long live the new order!"
If it waddles and quacks....
Maybe I should have said "quacking"
Sorry Dave - you really do disappoint
You've torn our music up by the roots and replaved it with second-rate pop as far as I can see
The performers that have been put up here are those who have obviously made it
Our folk song was never about that - it was about getting together regularly to enjoy it as a group
If your new stuff is what you want you can keep it
Where do you think Harry Cox or Jeannie Robertson or Sam Larner or The Stewarts would have fitted into all that unintelligible noise ?
Sad - sad - sad!!

The point of all pop-sounding music is that it has no continuum - it is as disposable as a cardboard coffee cup and has to be regularly replaced
'The Spanish Lady never did - she was ageless and eternal
That prevents it from being folk if nothing else
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 04:25 AM

Whatever, Jim. You know my position and I am not going to labour the point. I can carry on enjoying the folk music I like as I have done for over 40 years. You, apparently, cannot. You seem to want to blame me for that. Fine, I am broad shouldered and if it makes you feel better, glad I can help. But rather than blame someone who has had no control over the direction of any folk clubs but one, which has never turned anyone away, you may want to think about the comments we regularly see about the nightmarish organisers and MCs who have frightened people off with their overbearing and bombastic attitudes.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 04:47 AM

" You, apparently, cannot. "
Cannot what Dave
I have never ceased both singing and listening to folk songs - never
I don't regard what has been presented here as folk - they have no narrative form, tho they are narrative songs, the cry out for interpretation that simply isn't there
They are 'performed' rather than communicated as stories and experience - that is what makes folk songs 'folk' - they are about people rather than just sounds - that's what makes them
I don't find either particularly good examples of what they are - there are far better and inspired pop-type songs
Tall you what - I bet both of those renditions come with a little (c) - they both belong to somebody

I' not suggesting that you are to blame for what is happening - I am challenging your defending it as 'folk' which it isn't
I don't know anybody who was ever 'frightened off' by bombastic attitudes
When MacColl died the audiences for him and Peggy were as big as they had ever been
It is now possible to get most of the hundred or so albums made thirty years after his death - they are regularly being re-issued
I can't think of a single folk performer that that has happened to - can you?

You don't win people for your music by compromising and changing it to meet their tastes - you win them by doing it well enough for them to realise how enjoyable and important it is so they can enjoy it as uch as you do.
If you don't accept that stop performing and stick in a juke box
The finest art in the world comes from interpretation of inner passion an personal experience - crowd pleasing produces ladies with blue faces and white horses running through foam - chocolate-box art
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 04:53 AM

The case for the defence Jim
The best song ever written about the English class system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuTMWgOduFM&list=RDyuTMWgOduFM

disposable as a paper cup? Face it people have all but disposed of your view of music. And its not the fault of the music. Its the fault of people who have turned their back on the need for 'folk' to write about their struggles and their society.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 05:06 AM

You say that you no longer go to folk clubs as they no longer present folk music so that is what you can no longer enjoy. Glad you are not blaming me. I do sing mainly traditional and enjoy traditional music along with many other genres. I'll carry on enjoying what I enjoy, you carry on enjoying what you enjoy and everyone will be happy.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 05:27 AM

"folk music so that is what you can no longer enjoy"
No - I said I stopped gong because they stopped presenting folk music - full stop - they no longer did what they claimed to do
Nowadays I'm far more concerned that future generations get as much interest and enjoyment as I have
It's 'a people's art' - the main oe we can lay claim to - that's what makes it important
I have never baled you ro any individual - we all took our eyes off the ball
We can only get it back into play when we recognise that's what we have done
Jim

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 05:34 AM

Fine, Jim, so you can no longer enjoy folk clubs. I can and do and hear more traditional folk at them than anything else. I suppose I am just lucky.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 05:37 AM

"Disposable as a paper cup?" - 100%

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 05:49 AM

As a case for the defence Big Al it is a very poor one!

A band from 1978 that has since broken up. Give them their due they make no pretensions of being "folk", a description I think they would run a mile from.

As for the song - certainly as disposable as a paper cup. God knows I hear more than enough of poorly "performed" 60s & 70s "hits" in what purport to be "folk clubs" but I must admit that, thankfully, I have never heard anyone attempt this candidate of yours. Must admit though the a cappella version would be a hoot, the WTF look on the faces of those present would be priceless.

I'll say it again - traditional folk music has never had to chase either audience or those willing to participate, playing or singing. It's popularity may vary but it has been around for hundreds of years and I dare say it will continue to survive.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Revival 2018
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 21 Aug 18 - 06:03 AM

The folk music scene is apparently dying, the audience has gone.

Ewan MacColl's 100 or so albums are regularly being re-issued.

Assuming that you think of what Ewan performed to be folk music, who is buying these regularly re-issued albums?

How did you re-act to Ewan performing British material accompanied by an American five strung banjo? Apart from Margaret Barry I can't think of any traditional singers on this side of the Atlantic using the instrument. Some might think of it as jumping on the bandwagon brought about by the interest in American music at the time.
You appear to criticise current singers who introduce new methods of accompaniment of folk material.

And please don't go into your usual "grave dancing" phase again.