BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:37 AM

And still you refuse to specify your charges of antisemitism, as do your fellow accusers

They are not my charges Jim.
They are charges of intimidation and abuse, and of racist comments, and they come from Jews and non-Jews within the party, mostly MPs.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:33 AM

you said what you said

Yes. Not the filthy lies you just claimed about me, liar.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:29 AM

Sorry Keith - your exact words have been posted onto this thread
I will not grace your denial with an argument - you said what you said

And still you refuse to specify your charges of antisemitism, as do your fellow accusers
It seems that a denial of simple justice is also a part of your portfolio
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:25 AM

Liar Jim,
Keith is historically an Islamophobe who believes their religion causes them to hav underage sex

Filthy lies Jim.
I have never, ever even criticised any religion, unlike you.

No religion "causes them to hav underage sex" and I would never suggest such a ludicrous thing.

Filthy lies Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:20 AM

Dave,
No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party...

Yes, but you go on to say that it can be found in any large organisation, denying that there is a serious and specific problem in the Labour Party that has arisen since Corbyn became leader and the Far Left became dominant.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:05 AM

"there is no such thing as race, unless you're a racist"
That is true, but Antisemitism Islamophobia and racism as forms of prejudice are inseparable
In my opinion one of the great missed opportunities of history came about because of the bad treatment of the Jews as being 'different' somehow from bad treatment of other cultures, races and religions - and humanity in general.
The Holocaust was a perfect example of extreme prejudice, but that hatred extended to Gypsies, Trades Unionists, Communists
The defeat of Nazism was a perfect opportunity to outlaw all forms of prejudice
We have been debating a definition of Antisemitism and ignoring the fact that it is only a part of hatred and prejudice
Why?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 08:00 AM

Jewishness as ethnicity, which is to say race

Er........no, two different things, and besides, there is no such thing as race, unless you're a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 07:34 AM

We also need to ignore the spoilers who come here for no other reason than to cause trouble. Remember how the atmosphere improved when those fuckwits absented themselves (or were forcibly restrained?)? Everyone knows who they are, how many times does it need to be said - IGNORE THEM!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 07:28 AM

"I stand by my belief on Ians' comments on the word 'trope'."
I can't disagree with that - I nevr use the word and, as far as I can see, the only people who have used it here are those who I find 'on the other side' of my arguments - Keith inr#troduced it to the discussion and has twice directed 'An#ti semitic trope' at those he disagreed#s with.
It is as meaningless a term as 'Antisemitism' is becoming due to its constant misuse.

When I was born the Holocaust hadn't even begun - I was alive at the time it took place and when the perpetrators were tried
My family dought fascism before and after the war - some of them suffered punishment and imprisonment for doing so.
My uncle, a regular soldier and decorated war hero was punished by the army for refusing to go and train fascist troops in Greece during the Greek Civil War.
The same regular soldier was stationed in Palestine when the British left Palestine
Israel has been a par of my consciousness throughout my sentient life - as an unqualified supporter, and later, as its politics swung further and further towards the right, a qualified one.
Now I'm getting on in years, hardly a day passes when I don't think with pride and respect of the part played by members of my family in the fight against racism and sectarianism

I have been called an anti-semite by five people on this forum, by Bearded Bruce, Bobad, Keith, Iains and Robomatic - all of the (sometimes extreme) right
The Party in which I place a great deal of hope for the future of British Politics, The (socialist inclined) Labour Party has been accused of the same thing
I am demanding that such accusations be qualified - If I, Corbyn, Dave, Steve are antisemites, what exactly are we guilty of ?
If no reply is forthcoming, these discussions have become no more than soapboxes for right wing politics   
This disucussions have now become re-runs of kafka's 'The Trial', where the prosecution refuses to tell the accused what he is being accused of.

We really need to move away from blogs and opinions and begin to discuss what is actually happening in the world today - the frightening rise in real antisemitism is very much a part of that, but only a part.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 07:14 AM

If there really is an interpreter in the room, perhaps he or she could translate that post of yours for us. As it stands, it doesn't make any sense at all. Ironic, really.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 06:58 AM

If these people refuse to debate rationally as they are, we need to remember who they are

we are we are not
we will be
we won't be
Is there an interpreter in the room anywhere? Not for the first time I have no idea what he is on about. It is verging on incoherance!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 06:49 AM

Interesting piece by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown from April 24 - the whole thing is worth reading (give it a google) but here's a chunk of it that got me musing:

Antisemitism on the left, yes — but Tories have their own problems with both Jews and Muslims

YouGov polls done in 2015 and again in 2017 found that Tory voters are more likely to hold negative views about Jews than Labour voters. For example, in 2015, 31% Conservatives thought Jews chase money more than other Britons. In 2017, the figure went down to 22%. For Labour the figures were 22% and 14%. A 2017 study looking at British attitudes towards Jews by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research found that 30% of the general population hold at least one ‘anti-Semitic attitude’. Figures on the left are similar to or below the population mean, while those on the right are significantly more likely to hold at least one anti-Semitic attitude. Such facts do not stop the oft repeated accusations against the left.

It strikes me that we hear an awful lot from Labour Friends of Israel and the Board of Deputies, etc., but very little from the Tories about "Labour's antisemitism problem." I strongly suspect that the Tories think that they have a sleeping dog that they'd rather not see stirred too much, especially considering the threat of its compounding their total brexit balls-up. Whilst I regard the Skripal thing as off-topic in this thread, there is, to my way of thinking, a tenuous link to the other political shenanigans of the day. Labour is paralysed over brexit, to their huge discredit in my view, and has let this bogus antisemitism issue engulf them instead of coming out and exposing their attackers for the utter frauds that they are. So Labour doesn't look good. And the Tories definitely don't look good. So what do you do when things are bad at home? Well you could always start a war, as Maggie did for example, or, failing that, show your people how rotten Johnny Foreigner is. Now I don't know whether these two blokes painted stuff on that doorknob or not. I've seen the CCTV snapshots and read about their trail from Gatwick to Bow to Salisbury to Bow to Salisbury to Gatwick. Two scruffy blokes strolling around invariably looking relaxed and as uncloak-and-dagger as you could wish for. The assistant commissioner has claimed that he has enough evidence to charge them with conspiracy to murder, etc. Well I don't think he has. I think he has enough evidence, if only he could lay his hands on them, merely to ask them some awkward questions. Instead, we have the spectacle of a belly-up Theresa May expressing unjustifiable certainties (which would preclude a fair trial in any case - that particular bridge is well and truly burned) and even blaming Putin. Thing is, they can't lay their hands on these blokes. That's one certainty, probably the only one. In a way, that puts May in the rather luxurious position of being able to say what the hell she likes about those damn Ruskies, in full knowledge that she can never be brought to account by due process throwing up a whole bunch of really awkward doubts about these two chaps. Good, eh?

Incidentally, I obtained a copy of yesterday's Daily Mail (I did NOT pay for it!). While the rest of media were in hysterics over Corbyn's "caveat," the Mail had nothing to say about it at all until page 16. I wonder how many Mail readers ever get that far... Of course, the Mail couldn't NOT report it, as that would have been distinctly odd, but it was well and truly relegated. Then I remembered that this paper once stood up for the man who murdered six million Jews...

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 06:37 AM

Jim

I was in no sense suggesting you were wrong about his being a Tommy Robinsons supporter, my confusion arose from the oddness of such a one citing Marxist analyses by a blog that expresses strong dislike of Brexit supporters. But I believe it was because he had not read the blog he put up the link to and so did not realise it where it was coming from.

I stand by my belief on Ians' comments on the word 'trope'.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:58 AM

"This doesn't chime with support for the appalling Tommy Robinson. "
Iaians is a tommy Robinson supporter
He circulaed the petition sppoerting him on this forum several months ago
Keith is historically an Islamophobe who believes their religion causes them to hav underage sex
He has said so on this forum
If these people refuse to debate rationally as they are, we need to remember who they are
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:50 AM

Jim

I am confused since Ians just referred us to a Deleuzian (ie Marxist) piece on the word 'trope'. This doesn't chime with support for the appalling Tommy Robinson.

But maybe he didn't realise it was Marxist, maybe he only read the headline, not the article.

And the link doesn't prove that he has found out what 'trope' means or the significance of the etymology of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:30 AM

"ignore"
Of course you will
Racists using racism as a political opportunity can do nothing else
You have refused to even respond to the massive rise in all forms of racism in Britain
You have refused to acknowledge that the rise in antisemitism is part of a world-wide phenomenon
Now you are refusing to acknowledge your own support for racists
What else can you do?
You even refuse to identify the type of antisemitism you are accusing the Labour Party of
This is the most bizarre stand-off I have ever come across since 'Dog-Day Afternoon'

Until both of you you say exactly you are accusing The Labour Party of this will remain the farce you have made it
Racism in all its forms especially antisemitism, if a phenomenon of the right - yo are both of the extreme right - Iians is of the Tommy Robinson kind
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:30 AM

Ians put up a link to a blog. Some more quick googling, eh? But an interesting link. However, I'm not qualified to discuss self-styled Deleuzian analyses like this one.

I liked the bit on Ian's site where they have a go at Brexiters, making frequent use of f*** words. "You stupid f****** Bexit f****** c***".

Thanks for the link Ians.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:09 AM

ignore

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:55 AM

And one more the pro Israel lobby ignore the facts - surprise, surprise

Not so long agao Iains was advocating for the right of free peec of arch rcist Tommy Robinson and gloatingly publicising his supporters petition
I wonder if his latest concern for victims of racism is an indication of a 'Road to Damascus' conversion or double-standards - or maybe just good ol' political oppertunism
Likewise Keith whoose concerns over racism has never exactly extended to the Muslim "implanted" people
This becomes vomit-making
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:41 AM

Are you listening, Robo? Keith? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:38 AM

http://www.indelicates.com/trope/

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:37 AM

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party...

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:31 AM

Corbyn, " “Anyone who denies this has surfaced in our party is clearly wrong and contributing to the problem.”

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:28 AM

The are many Arab States and Islamic States.
Are they all racist endeavours?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:27 AM

Letter in yesterday's press, interesting comment

"One of the IHRA examples clarifying its definition of antisemitism is this: “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, eg by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour.” But the state of Israel’s conception of what it is to be Jewish rests not on the religious belief that is Judaism but on Jewishness as ethnicity, which is to say race. It therefore follows that Israel’s existence as a state is indeed a racist endeavour, since membership and/or “level of membership” of that state rests on so-called race. Labour’s acceptance of the contrary view is a disastrous capitulation to racism."

Is this a fair view of the State of Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:27 AM

You went on to say that Labour's problem was just the same as any other organisation, denying that it was a significant problem specific to the Labour Left which is what this debate is about.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:23 AM

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party...

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:22 AM

The term was used by another first, BTW, but as he is a master of changing the meaning of what he said it is not worth going down that route.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:21 AM

The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support. It is not working and will, hopefully, continue to backfire as it did in the last election.

How can you keep up that pretence and denial?
The accusations of anti-Semitism all emerged from within the party.
The whole leadership including Corbyn acknowledge that it is real.
Corbyn actually stated that people like you who deny it and claim it is fabricated are part of the problem.

You have been shown to be wrong in your assessment over and over again, but you keep on repeating it like some mantra!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:20 AM

MORE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:19 AM

Robo, I am sure you will be interested to note that you are now a 'trendy lefty' who nicked the word trope 'out of the gruniard some past sunny day.'!

You need to pick your allies more carefully. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

"Earlier today (when you could still see your screen through the spittle)you wrote:"
Yesterday (before you decided the best method of defence was personal abuse) your defence of Israel was that there were worse (a dubious point point anyway)
Can you justify that somewhat schoolyard-level argument

I have asked you peopele over and over again what exactly you are accusing the Labour Party of
I think the fact than not one of you have had the bottle (or good manners) to reply indicates you have no answer, which is answer enough
If you have no accusation, you have no case, which most of us here are aware of anyway

"40% of British Jews say they would leave if Corbyn became Prime Minister."
And still accusations without substantiation - this gets more and more Kafkaesque by the minute
There is little doubt my mind that Antisemitism

Some world reports
Apr 23, 2017 - In contrast, English-speaking countries saw a rise in antisemitic incidents: The UK saw an increase of 11%, though the rate of violent incidents

America
Mar 17, 2018 - Anti-Semitic hate crimes are on the rise, up 57 percent in 2017 from 2016, the ... something to head off, especially when the rise of anti-Semitism is ... stories feed the larger narrative of a debauched world of liberalism that needs cleansing by fire.

Europe
The anti-Semitism news from Europe in over the past year has been terrible: Jews murdered in Paris and Copenhagen, synagogues attacked by mobs and firebombed, and increasing Jewish emigration attributed to fear of more attacks.

CANADA

Corbyn must be a very powerful man, doncha think?

World antisemitism is sharply on the rise and it's the fault of the British Labour party!!!!!!
Are you out of your mind?

ANTISEMITISM IS ON THE RISE AGAIN IN LINE WITH THE RISE OF RIGHT-WING POLITICS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD - TRUMP'S AMERICA, BREXIT BRITAIN, EUROPLEAN NEO-NAZIS, RIGHT WING POLITICS IN FORMER COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, ISRAEL POPULISM DRIVEN BY ZENOPHOBIA - a gradual swing to the right throughout the world   

Antisemitism is the domain o the right - not the left - it always has been and it always will be
THe Holocaust was a right-wing affair paid for by German indistrial capitlism

Whatever the cause of it, I suggest that Israel's identifying their extremist policies as "Jewish" hasn't helped
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

Karen H etymology is a bit of a hobby of mine. I am fully aware of what it means, both its real meaning and the hijacked nuanced urban dictionary meaning. I suspect in this case it was a trendy lefty word nicked out of the gruniard some past sunny day.
But at the end of the day the question to be answered is whether antisemitism in labour is real or a a conjuration of the tories.
From the mouth of Corbyn we have no option but to accept the reality of the accusation. It is not a case of taking the red pill or the blue pill. The issue is real, has been proven, and perhaps been dealt with(time will tell)
In my view this entire insanity has been created by the party leadership being totally ineffectual. For a party hungry for votes come election time, this little escapade will cost them dearly in the poll booth. I suspect the issue will not die and support will wither away.
Democracy requires an able opposition in order to function properly.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party. There is antisemitism, racism, misogyny and all manner of other issues in all walks of life. The point that it is the same for all political parties and worse on the right wing (See antisemitism barometer). There is also the fact that this only came to light when Corbyn took the lead and became worse when he trashed the Tory lead in the last election. The media make their own news and fools fall for it.

BTW - Analysis of the British Election Study results – the gold standard of UK polling data – shows that 63 per cent of British Jews voted for the Conservatives in 2017, while just 26 per cent said they voted Labour. In the light of those figures it is quite surprising that only 40% said they would leave if Corbyn became PM.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:49 AM

I provided a source yesterday - the Jewish Chronicle.
How they gathered their data or if it would have the same accuracy as a mori poll I have no idea. However the accuracy is to an extent a bye the bye.
I find it incredible that a country that has prided itself on welcoming all races and all creeds for many centuries should have allowed a political party to arise that generates such fear and loathing among a minority.
It makes tommy robinson worthy of canonisation in comparison!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:45 AM

Not very impressed by Ians's comment on the origins of the 'trope', which gives the impression he just looked it up to find out what it means, but didn't quite succeed in understanding what he found.

As does this comment:

"The idea that antisemitism in the labour party is figurative or metaphorical is clearly away with the faeries."

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:39 AM

You will need to provide a source for your 40%, but if they are thinking of leaving then they have been duped by the far right press. Where would they leave for? They can't go to Europe because we are losing Freedom of Movement. They are unlikely to be welcome in the USA. Israel? Neither Corbyn, nor anyone in the Labour party, are a threat to British Jews. What they might be a threat to, and even this is really pretty unlikely, is the existence of Israel. So to suggest that they would move to Israel if Corbyn was PM is pretty self-defeating.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:19 AM

Meanwhile to get back on topic,40% of British Jews say they would leave if Corbyn became Prime Minister. This statistic rather suggests there is some naivety in the ranks if the belief is that the antisemistism accusation is but a cunning ruse and distraction technique by the ruling party. About time you accepted that the accusation is real and is publicly acknowledged by Corbyn the vacuous.
I find it extremely entertaining to watch the gymnastics applied by some here in order to avoid the obvious. I suppose if the reality is accepted then you would have to concede that you have backed a loser that is totally unfitted for office. Keep up the gyrations!
The idea that antisemitism in the labour party is figurative or metaphorical is clearly away with the faeries.

Try a search of youtube and you can see corbyn of wimpyland clearly acknowledging the accusation. This does make the counter arguments somewhat facile.
Interestin that the entymology of trope is to turn, a direction, a course.
Presumably this means to take the dark side away from light and truth! Very sad really!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:44 AM

There's a couple of photos doing the rounds which show the two men - each one separately and alone - in exactly the same airport corridor, with the date/time stamp exactly the same on each photo. Hmmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:29 AM

The news is only what the May regime wants the news to be bobad. The truth, thats entirely unknown in this case. All that the news says about the Skripal case is unevidenced and hearsay.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:25 AM

"You are right in your assessment that antisemitism in this instance is a trope being used to mask other issues, Robo, but I will have to disagree on what it is being used to mask. The brexiteers do not care about racism. They want to be rid of foreigners anyway. The establishment however are running scared of the rise of the left wing. The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support."

Spot-on summation Dave. It's a deliberate policy of "Look over there - Labour antisemitism/racism/support for terrorists/yadda yadda" which the government and establishment are using to divert the attention of feeble-minded Daily Mail/Sun/Express readers from the really important issues which will actually affect their lives.

Disgusting dishonesty feeding unbelievable stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:22 AM

Jim Carroll:

Earlier today (when you could still see your screen through the spittle)you wrote:

Among those who have compared their behaviour to that of the nazis are at least two of the ex-heads of Mossad interviewed for the documentary, 'The Gatekeepers - the other four where highly critical but didn't quite go so far

That is a devastating movie which I have watched, and will watch again. It concerns itself with truly difficult, gut-wrenching issues. The difference between those men talking the way they do and you thinking you can use the same terms is that those men know what they're talking about. You do not.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:13 AM

We made friends with a lovely Russian lady and her (old) 80 year old mother in our Spanish hotel, lovely people compared with a few arrogant Spanish with their out of control catholic brats!!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:08 AM

You are right in your assessment that antisemitism in this instance is a trope being used to mask other issues, Robo, but I will have to disagree on what it is being used to mask. The brexiteers do not care about racism. They want to be rid of foreigners anyway. The establishment however are running scared of the rise of the left wing. The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support. It is not working and will, hopefully, continue to backfire as it did in the last election.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 01:26 AM

There are real issues and no one is totally clean. But I discriminate among regimes such as Assad's war torn Syria which are death on civilians, abetted by Russia, and civil societies such as the one maintained by Israel, which incorporate considerable diversity at great cost but with great success.

Too many critics seem to lump 'em together because they are not perfect. Well, there are millions of people fleeing the imperfections in Syria, Yemen, Sudan North and Sudan South, Somalia, Mali, etc. etc. and there are million of people trying to get into Israel. Think if Israel was so bad they'd be trying to get in so hard?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:54 PM

Taste the egg.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:52 PM

Troll.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:50 PM

Lol Shaw, still fantasizing about sucking Putin's dick I see. They have got them dead to rights - read the news.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:49 PM

I'll watch that, robomatic, on catch-up. Sackur is very good. It's always on very late here and has, I suspect, a small audience only. It's instructive to hear you say that it wasn't antisemitic. I think that the pro-Israel advocates would rather like to see us walking on those eggshells all the time...

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:43 PM

Oh, and the Skripal affair is still a very long way from being resolved. Today, we have the word of the May regime along with a bit of CCTV footage of two rather cheery-looking chaps. Let's wait and see, eh, boobs, and hold fire somewhat on the lynch-mob stuff...?