BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:28 AM

I think you're right there, John. If anything sinks Labour it will far more likely be their paralysis over Brexit.

"Very interesting, Steve, but..." my arse. It's pivotal, and the fact that you persistently sidestep it shows what a hypocrite you are. There is far more racism/antisemitism on the right in this country, and Corbyn, from the left, has been fighting it all his life. So have Livingstone, Wadsworth and Walker. This row is purely a confection intended (a) to unseat Corbyn, (b) to ensure that there won't be a pro-Palestinian western leader anywhere who might just invade Bibi's comfort zone.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:30 AM

Good poster, John. More revelation of hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:35 AM

"This row is purely a confection"

Just add a little more sugar, and sink labour into oblivion.
Bring it on I say. Can we have a party after?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:46 AM

Other than the MSM, nobody outside the Westminster bubble, and a few dipshits on here, has the slightest interest in 'antisemitism' - real or fake news - because it doesn't affect their daily lives one jot. And if a few Jews have hurt feelings, it's immaterial to the thousands of people working their butts off to keep their heads above water, pay the bills, feed their kids etc. Those people are suffering far worse problems than 'hurt feelings'.

To the fast majority of people, it's a complete non-issue.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:47 AM

'Fast'? VAST!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:57 AM

"Just add a little more sugar, and sink labour into oblivion."
'bout time we got to what this whole business really about - and who the real anti semites are
What a pity for the the# real Jew haters that Labour hasn't had as high a membership in nearly half a century
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 11:16 AM

Many people may not care that a major party, who could well form the next government, have a serious problem with anti-Semitism in its ranks.
Everyone on this thread does care.
Also the Jewish community care deeply, many seeing it as an existential threat to them.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 11:29 AM

"No other party has been shown to have anything approaching it."
No other party has attempted to deal with it -
The Tories outstrip any accusations of Antisemitism by miles yet they have refused even to examine it
When Labour was, it immediately held an encquiry
Why was this
The Tories have a long history and a current reputation fro racism yet they refuse even to consider it







The State of Conservative racism today
TORY RACISM
TORY RACISM AGAIN
ULTIMATE TORY RACISM
HOW THE PARTIES DEAL WITH IT

Everyone on this thread does care.
You, as a serial racist should know Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 11:53 AM

Isn't it funny how someone can change from

"So, still no examples of anyone denying that there is antisemitism in the Labour party then.

No. Of course not!"

to

"I was talking about the problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party which you have wrongly been denying the existence of for years."

All in a mtter of minutes!

I suppose it goes to underline the fact that if you ever engage with a word twisting weasel you should not be surprised at, well, twisted words. Back to total ignore mode I think chaps.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: peteglasgow
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:05 PM

i have been in the labour party for half my adult life and the trade union movement for all of it. i have not witnessed any anti-semitism and am at a loss to understand what the current tedious nit-picking is referring to.
i do understand the reasons for all the nonsense though - quite clearly jeremy corbyn presents a real danger to the status quo of unqualified support for the illegal israeli occupation and dreadful treatment of its citizens and neighbours. also it is a very convenient theme to try to distract attention from the mess of the government we have now and in particular their appalling windrush behaviour.

some labour mps love to join in to discredit their leader and the party and then have the nerve to bleat about deselection.

i don't know why i'm writing this stuff again - if people aren't going to see the bleedin' obvious the first time then they will never do so after subsequent retellings.

as this subject seems to be slipping out of view - (no doubt the press will find somethings else soon (probably the deselection of st frank of hypocrisy)) - maybe we should just pack it in on this site. lots of sound and fury and some creditable detailed research but i'll bet none of us has learned anything new and not one of our closed minds has been opened even a little.

move on please. there is plenty of other stuff to squabble about - austerity and 4 million children who we can't afford to feed properly anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:13 PM

"I don't know why i'm writing this stuff again - if people aren't going to see the bleedin' obvious the first time then they will never do so after subsequent retellings."

Quite a few of us do see it and completely agree, Pete. Just the usual, aforementioned few dipshits who either can't or, more likely, won't. And TBH, their feeble, propagandised minds mean they really aren't worth the effort.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:17 PM

Dave, it goes without saying that there is anti-Semitism everywhere.
We are not discussing that.
We are discussing Labour's exceptional problem.
Pretending not to understand what I refer to does not hide the fact that you have all been shown to be wrong. Again.
Labour does have a serious problem that other parties do not have.

Pete,
i do understand the reasons for all the nonsense though - quite clearly jeremy corbyn presents a real danger to the status quo of unqualified support for the illegal israeli occupation and dreadful treatment of its citizens and neighbours. also it is a very convenient theme to try to distract attention from the mess of the government we have now and in particular their appalling windrush behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:18 PM

Pete, so why does Corbyn himself admit that it is true, and say that people like you who deny it are part of the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:25 PM

Belfast Telegraph 3 hoursago
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/archbishop-of-canterbury-wades-into-labour-antisemitism-row-37293162.html

"The Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis said the Jewish community was in a worse position than 12 months ago because at that time it had hope but the position now has “deteriorated”.

He added: “What we’ve found particularly upsetting is that after three years of inaction during which we have waited for the Labour Party to show they are actually serious about tackling anti-Semitism, now we have found during the past summer they haven’t even known where the starting blocks are, how do you define it.”

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 12:53 PM

Ephraim Mirvis, from Wiki:

"As Chief Rabbi of Ireland and before the opening of an Israeli Embassy in Ireland, he represented Israel’s interests at government level and in the media. In 1999, he led a group of British rabbis on a solidarity trip to Israel...Regarding the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict, while deploring the loss of life in Gaza, Mirvis defended Israel's right to protect itself from Hamas rocket attacks, adding that the conflict was used as a cover to voice anti-Semitic sentiment.

Mad as a box o' frogs.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:00 PM

So there we go - racism against Asians doesn't count - how racist

Mirvis
As Chief Rabbi of Ireland and before the opening of an Israeli Embassy in Ireland, he represented Israel’s interests at government level and in the media. In 1999, he led a group of British rabbis on a solidarity trip to Israel.
while deploring the loss of life in Gaza, Mirvis defended Israel's right to protect itself from Hamas rocket attacks,[10] adding that the conflict was used as a cover to voice anti-Semitic sentiment.[11]"

An activist on behalf of Israel who supports the murders in Gaza
What else is he gong to say?

There goes that Israel link again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:11 PM

Steve:

Well, robomatic, he did not attend that ceremony. That ceremony was taking place close to where he was attending something different. Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes from the pen of an inveterate Corbyn-basher with ulterior motives. I looked at that mural with the bankers before any of this controversy arose, and I got the message, but I didn't think "Jew." My mindset does not accommodate and never has accommodated the concepts of Jews having hooked noses or the concept of Jewish bankers ruling the world or treading all over the working classes. So when I saw the mural I didn't think "Jew." I don't walk round Prestwich and Salford, with their thousands of Jews, and look at people in the street and think "Jew." I think there's something wrong with people who do that. The artist who made that mural had no antisemitic intent. I think if you look at that and see things that it isn't intended to convey then you are simply looking for trouble. In fact, it makes you a damn sight more antisemitic than the person you're accusing. It's you who's walking around with those stereotypes embedded in your brain and you'd better ask yourself why you're harbouring them. Not you personally. It's a bit stiff sometimes to keep typing "one" instead of "you."

Steve: I did look at the mural in an earlier thread and made comments at the time. Here and now I was merely linking to an article where someone expressed his feelings over a running sum of Corbyn's actions and sayings. As I've writ earlier I am no UK political person. I am reading up on your politics which of course are substantially different from the US, I get the impression that the UK is a hotbed of radicals and reactionaries who fight like cats and dogs yet can close ranks behind rows of beefeaters during an Imperial ceremony and give the world an impression of centuries long stability. The truth is more like you all ARE a hotbed of cats and dogs but your're stuck there on an island with each other and no one has successfully invaded and taken on that mess for almost a thousand years.

As for Corbyn's remarks about Hamas, he has long since expressed, very publicly, his regret for using the words he used. You either accept that or you don't. If you don't, I can't help you. One thing's for sure. Hamas and Hezbollah exist only because of the plight of the Palestinians. There are rotten people in the ranks of both, they frequently carry out wrong-headed actions but there's hardly anyone else speaking up for the Palestinians. That could be our fault for permitting Israel to carry out atrocities with impunity far worse than anything Hamas does, refusing to engage with those speaking up for the Palestinians. The "terrorists" in the IRA of The Troubles are now in government. We had to sit down with them in the end and so a lot of lip-biting. Bit of a learning curve, is history.

It's a LOT of history. There has always been someone speaking up for the Palestinians, sometimes some of them have been Israelis. Taking refuge in extremists (tempered by corruption) was a poor choice, in my opinion. Over the long view the Palestinians and those who spoke for them have not opted for compromise. They didn't accept the UN partition plan in 1948 and they somehow threw over a serious proposal in '98. They plain do not accept the existence of Israel. And it's not all on one side. There was real hope before Rabin was assassinated by a radical fundamentalist Jew. But on the whole, the Israelis have gotten on with things and the Palestinians have simply seethed which is their tragedy. As Abba Eban has said "They do not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Mr. Corbyn needs to make that distinction, not merely perceive Israel's successes as those of oppression. Well before the Six Day War Israel was multi-ethnic, diverse and democratic. And the Palestinians were yet seething, and that was PRIOR to Hamas and Hezbollah. And the PLO and the PFLP were hijacking airliners and boats and killing civilians for being JEWISH.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:17 PM

Spot on, Pete. A 2017 survey by the campaign against antisemitism said "men are much more likely to be antisemitic than women, older people are much more likely to be antisemitic than younger people, and people of lower social grades are more likely to be antisemitic than people of higher social grades. Our data also revealed patterns in antisemitism across political divides, with supporters of left-wing political parties and supporters of the ‘remain’ camp in the EU referendum all less likely "

So all this nonsense about it only being the Labour party that has this problem is complete nonsense and, as you say, most likely a smoke screen to take attention away from the incompetentbunch of tossers currently infesting Westminster.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:35 PM

It is only the labour party and it's intransigence that has caused the problem.
"The UK Labour Party's ruling body has agreed to adopt in full an international definition of anti-Semitism, after months of rows.

It will incorporate all the 11 examples of anti-Semitism cited by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance into its code of conduct.

But Jewish groups have attacked an accompanying statement agreed by the NEC aimed at protecting free speech.

One warned it risked giving "racists a get-out-of-jail card".

The only one's mad as a box of frogs are those unable to accept that Labour still has a problem, as exemplified by the frogs hopping about on this thread.
And lest we forget the thread title is the UK Labour Party and Antisemitism. If it was supposed to be about the tories and alleged antisemitism it would have been labelled accordingly, doncha think?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:41 PM

This is now just stonewalling
No arguments - no responses whatever - just soapboxing
So much for the human suffering caused by putting politics before real racism
What can you expect from a ravig Islamophobe and a Tommy Robinson supporter?
Ji Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 01:51 PM

"So much for the human suffering caused by putting politics before real racism"

But!
"The Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis said the Jewish community was in a worse position than 12 months ago because at that time it had hope but the position now has “deteriorated”.

So what is the point you are attempting to make?
It rather seems to me you agree with the proposition that Labour politics/intransigence has made a bad situation worse.

So perhaps you would care to explain what on earth you are on about.
It would seem you attach any derogatory label to anyone that disagrees with you with zero evidence to back it up. Perhaps you are the racist as it is an epithet you hurl about with gay abandon and zero censure.
an Tommy Robinson is as entitled to free speech as you are.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 02:28 PM

Dave,
So all this nonsense about it only being the Labour party that has this problem is complete nonsense

No. It is a fact.
Corbyn himself admits that it is true, and says that people like you who deny it are part of the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 02:38 PM

"So what is the point you are attempting to make? "
That all the accusations of Labour Antisemitism can be traced back yo Israel, we don't know what that antisemitism consists of, we have no idea od numbers and whatever it is measures small against what is happening in Britain in particular which is a drop in the ocean compared to what is happening worldwide- which is, in its turn, minute compared to the world-wide rise in racism
Blaming a single party for the worldwide rise in antisemitism is simply political opportunism - ignoring the racism that is rife in the Tory Party is simply lying
Labour has been far from intansgent - it has openly dealt with the early problems and has confirmed its position regarding all racism and bigotry
THe rise in all forms of racism is directly related to the rising fortunes of the right - racism and antisemitism is the domain of the right - not the left

"Tommy Robinson is as entitled to free speech as you are."
With that statement you have sucppered your how case
If you believ that, what the fucvk is this all about?
If that was true, which it baltentl;y is not - Anybody hating Jews are entitled to express their opinions without persecution
Again, my deepest thanks for putting you and your little band exactly where you are - a supporter of hate speech and racism who is prepared to use the Jewish people for political capital
What a squalid bunch!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 02:59 PM

I really don't know how it can be made more obvious. The campaign against antisemitism, an organisation with no political affiliations and made up to protect the interest of Jews say

supporters of left-wing political parties and supporters of the ‘remain’ camp in the EU referendum all less likely to be antisemitic than those on the right or supporters of the ‘leave’ camp.

Neither Jeremy Corbyn not anyone else, apart from the idiots in here, has ever said that antisemitism is exclusively a Labour party problem. The facts state that the right wing are more likely to be antisemitic than those in the left. Yet they still insist on flogging a dead horse. Incredible.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:28 PM

That wraps it up for me - a raving Islamophobe and a Tommy Robinson oven door banger defeb#nding Israel and taking a pop at the Labour Party - full circle I think

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:44 PM

"Tommy Robinson oven door banger?

Are you trying to say something and lack the courage to state it outright?