BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:31 PM

The 'smallest quarterback' is the only one in the league with nuclear weapons, Robo. But this is not really anything to do with Israel anyway and is about systematically trying to destroy the Leader of the Labour party because of the major threat he poses to the right wing in all countries.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:31 PM

whatis te antisemistism you have spent seveal years accusing Labour of ?

The anti-Semitism they accuse themselves of.

The man's an instictive liar"

Except all of you have failed to find a single one!

Once again you all resort to baseless personal attack because you have no case.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:38 PM

If anyone would care to point out the Wheatcroft moment please feel free. But be warned, that route leads to madness :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:41 PM

Huff Post,
"Jerermy Corbyn Ally Apologises After Saying 'Trump Fanatics' Were 'Making Up' Anti-Semitism Claims
Peter Willsman says he is referring himself to receive equalities training."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/peter-willsman-apology_uk_5b609b7de4b0de86f49b6c6c

I was right.
You are all left looking very silly with egg on your faces.
Ha ha ha!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:43 PM

Just leave him to it chaps. The hole is getting deeper and deeper!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:51 PM

The hole is where this thread has gone. From issues to _holes.
Leave off the castigating and get back on track.
Or end it.

DTG: 'Splain me why Corbyn is the second coming.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 12:57 PM

"Yet all this donnybrook about Israeli policy, which is primarily designed to preserve her existence."
No it is not - Israel in a rich State with world-wide support - it a nuclear power with a highly trained heavily armed

Israeli Policy is openly aggressive and expansionist, so much so that many Jews are now distancing themselves from their ulta-right win policies
Among those who have compared their behaviour to that of the nazis are at least two of the ex-heads of Mossad interviewed for the documentary, 'The Gatekeepers - the other four where highly critical but didn't quite go so far

On September 1982, the Israeli Army armed and transported a group of Falangist militiamen to the Sabra Shatila refugee camp in Lebanon, opened the gates and stood by while they massacred up to 3'500 unarmed refugee men women and children over three days; they lit the site of the massacre of two full nits so the massacre could continue day and night, turning back refugees at the gates who attempted to escape.
They assisted with the digging of mass graves with their bulldozers, then drove the killers away allowing them to escape
Nobody knows the exact death toll as they later built a sports stadiumm over where the bodies were buried
Eye witness, American/Jewish nurse, ellen seigal has dedicated her life to bringing Israel to book for the greatest single mass murder of non-combatants in the latter half of the 20th century.
The man found to be responsible for facilitating this massacre (even by Israel's own enquiry) Ariel Sharon (founder of the Likud Party) was punished for his crimes by later being elected Prime Minister Of Israel
None of this can be described as in any way 'defensive' or 'democratic'
Israel's history is peppered wit incidents such as ths - the earliest warning of the possibility of Israel developing into a fasist state was in a letter Letter to The New York Times. December 4, 1948 when he and 26 of his fellow intellectuals recred to massacres that were taking place as far back as that
Now, recent surveys have found that between on third and one half of Israeli citizens are in favour of ethnically cleansing Arabs from the territory
Where do you get this stuff?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:02 PM

THaknk you for the opportunity of making those ponts again - always worth reminding people of the type of state wea are dealing with

107
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:30 PM

Jim,
We are not dealing with any state.
Stop going on about Israel.
Start a thread so all the propaganda you spout can be answered.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:30 PM

MISSED A BIT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 01:54 PM

I don't think Corbyn is the second coming, Robo, and have never intimated any such thing. I do not think he deserves the kicking he is getting though.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:13 PM

Jim, Jim, at some point the blinders have to come off. You can list horrible occurrences to your heart's content, but anyone who can cut and paste can go from Algeria across North Africa across Syria into, let us say, Yemen. Or on to Turkey and their gentle treatment of their Kurdish minority and assemble a counterpile to anything you feel relevant. It is OFF-TOPIC.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:34 PM

Actually, Jim and some others have raised not so much an on-topic discussion point so much as a relevant point of attitude.

You are all acting like anti-Obama American Republicans.

Obama was not perfect. But he was at the very least a good American President. He paid attention to the actual stuff of government that needed attention. He tackled some major issues, such as Healthcare. And what did the Republicans do? They blocked him in every way they could, from policy positins (some of which they had previously endorsed) to pretty much any political appointment they could vote on, especially getting judges at any level approved.
And they lied, and they lied and they lied about Obama and Hillary Clinton. They indulged in any form of character assassination they could.
And, tactically, it worked.
Even in his first administration I was lacking in a way to explain it. Obama was not Muslim. He was not Socialist. He wasn't really that liberal. His administration observed a steady American immigration policy which resulted in many deportations. So what was left? Only the shade of his skin. I started using the term "free floating racism", because while the Republicans insisted 'no, no, we're not racist' the only thing I could think of left to really object to him was that a non-white, the first non-white in a line of over two hundred years of Presidents, had made it legally to the seat of power, and was in addition obviously competent. This madness could not be.

Similiarly, of all the national actors in the Mideast, Israel stands out: Multi-ethnic. Democratic. Great business activity. No one says it's perfect. But it is undeniably exceptional.

I think it is justifiable to argue that many of the diatribes and voices raised against her are due to free floating anti-Semitism. And I don’t care if you call it anti-Zionism. They are the same thing in this case because it is Israel as a Jewish state that is descried.

I think the criticism meted out to Labour is well warranted and many of the folks in this forum are well representing the problem in its most basic form.

And for that, I thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 02:59 PM

Since when did on atrocity cancel out another ???
They are equally all war criminals

My family were involved in opposing pre-war antisemitism and have always supported Israel - I condemn all despotic behaviour without distinction but am more aware of Israel's because I am an ex- supporter
It is an act of betrayal of the six million who died that the present regime is behaving toward the Arabs as the anti semites have behaved towards the Jews throughout history
Your "whataboutism" is little more than sick appeasement
Many of the worst regimes on the planet today are Britain's and America's allies - and ready customers for British arms
Syria was sold British ammunition which possibly went into the training of Homs snipers - Britain supplied riot control equipment to suppress Arab Spring protests and chemicals capable of allowing Assad to build a hue stockpile of chemical weapons
You may take our facile comparisons and stick them where they can do the least harm
You dismiss these atrocities as 'horrible occurrences' they are war crimes and crimes against humanity -America has used its veto over 100 occasions to prevent condemnation of Israel in the U.N. - 37 of those relate directly to mass murder

"It is OFF-TOPIC."
If it is off topic, why did you raise Israel's so-called democracy other that you thought you might get away with it?
If, as is becoming increasingly obvious, Israel has instigated accusations of antisemitism against a major British Party, it directly concerns Britain as does the fact that Russia intervened in the British and American electoral process, it most certainly s not "off topic"
While I believe that to be the case I will continue to raise it despite efforts of you and yours to sweep it under the table
Israel a democracy my arse
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:02 PM

Repeatedly bringing up the subject of Wheatcroft betrays the lack of rational counter argument on here. Dragging up past threads achieves absolutely nothing in the way of advancing the discussion about the Labour party and antisemitism.
The most divisive event in British politics in decades(namely brexit)
is given the backfooting by Labour as they self destruct over a definition of antisemitism accepted in its entirety by 24 of the 28 EU nations.
The opposition party is a disgrace and led by a rudderless buffoon that lacks the nous to punch his way out of a very wet brown paper bag, while the lack lustre labour supporters argue over the minutiae of the wording and claim it is a ruse to replace Corbyn. Please keep on with your nonsensical arguments and keep Jeremy the patron saint of idiocy in command of your party. It could not be in a more useless set of hands. Meanwhile brexit comes ever closer.
I guess to prioritise is an alien concept for labour supporters.
Keep up the good work, you are ensuring st jeremy of the allotment will never make the bigtime in the west.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:08 PM

"You are all acting like anti-Obama American Republicans."
And you are acting like little David Irvings busilly denying holocausts and mass murders
By associating criticism of the Israeli reginme iwth antisemitism you have now obtained the rank of honourary anti semite
Go read the definition - it is anti-semitic to make such an accusation
You paeple are helping spread the growing anti semitism buy maing Israeli behaviour 'Jewish'
THere are already three two many antisemites on this forum without your joining them

I suggest you be removed if you repeat your sick and unsustainable accusation
I think the more you people post, the more Labour's innocence of what it has been accused of becomes apparent
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:47 PM

I agree with you to some extent Iains, the important issues should be addressed. So what the hell does Margaret Hodge think she is doing? She should just shut up and get on with opposing the tories. Frank Field of course is a closet tory and a brexit apologist, so nothing else is to be expected from him.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:52 PM

THe important thing here is those accusing Labour of antisemitism should
Not one of these hypocrites has been able to do this s far (though Iain's has dishonestly claimed that they have)
Any offors Robo - no - thought not
Friggin' lynch mob - all of you
You should be ashamed of your spineless behaviour
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 03:59 PM

David, Labour should have been hammering the Tories over brexit from day one. Instead they have become sidetracked over issues, that under a forceful leader, would have been resolved rapidly,forcefully, quietly, and in house.
Instead it has made headline news worldwide and to be honest I have no idea what Labour's position on brexit really is. A sad indictment of an opposition party totally lacking in credibility. How labour MPs react is a matter for them and their constituents. The problem is to recognise those that have a valid problem and those that are simply grandstanding,
meanwhile Rome burns!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 04:19 PM

THe important thing here is those accusing Labour of antisemitism should

Well jimmy here is clot corbyn acknowledging antisemitism,
Can we have an apology now?

Here you have it straight from the hosse's mouth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekuna08vs_c

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 04:32 PM

A scary Jewish Chronicle survey. Nearly 40% of British Jews would emigrate if Corbyn became PM. The man must be the devil incarnate!

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/nearly-40-per-cent-of-british-jews-would-seriously-consider-emigrating-if-corbyn-became-pm-1.469270

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 05:26 PM

Robo, your analogy works on a number of levels but the closest is that Corbyn is receiving the same treatment from our right wing as Obama was from your republicans. You can see how good a hatchet job they have done on him by reading the comments on here. He may be far from perfect but, as politicians go, he is most certainly head and shoulders above May's marauders. The fact that he has the entire right wing in arms against him shows how scared they are and what a good job he is doing for the left.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 05:47 PM

DTG:

I am way behind on the larger issues obtaining in the UK right now. I'm sure that BREXIT looms large, is it the 'ball' that everyone should bee keeping their eye on or are there similarly large issues being ignored? I have suspected that the 'antisemitism' trope is being used as a ploy while bigger kettles come to boil. Here in 'murrica the issue of a Supreme Court Justice is sort of important but whole swaths of stuff are being ignored (legal/ prison reform, health care reform, military adjustments, NATO, you name 'em they're there) on the cheesy altars of celebrity identity and corporate dominance.

Bread and Circuses.

I used to know some British Jews. Damn interesting folks. Hard to believe so many of them would be ready to leave what with Jim Carroll and his ilk so loyally advocating for their welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 07:10 PM

You are all left looking very silly with egg on your faces.

Yep, just as with the Skripal affair. That's what happens when you're an ideologue and and the ideologies you cling to fail your dogmatic view of the world. Truth has a nasty habit of eventually being revealed and delights in egging ideologues.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 07:14 PM

Margaret Hodge:

Do read the wiki entry on her. She has a long history of damaging incompetence in all the roles given to her, of inconsistency apropos of Labour foreign policy (she railed against it often, yet voted for the invasion of Iraq, etc), of providing unwarranted publicity which greatly boosted the BNP, of extremely dubious expenses claims, among the highest during the scandal, of massive tax avoidance by her close family, and of lying about Jeremy Corbyn. Fine, quote her in support of your cause 'til the cows come home, but, frankly, she is not the kind of person I'd ever want to listen to.

Israel and racism:

When Israel came into being in the late 40s, three quarters of a million Arabs, that is, men, women, children, not soldiers or politicos, were either forced to flee or were actively driven out of their homes in what we now call Israel to make a homeland for Jews, many of whom were immigrants. Is that racist? I should say so. Am I antisemitic for making that accurate assessment of the events of that time? No, I am not. Should I be prevented from expressing that view? No, I should not. Feel free to argue the point. But include in your argument the current received wisdom that the NEC caveat is out of order. No it isn't, and to assert otherwise would be a naked attack on freedom of speech. Argue until you're blue in the face about what a bad tactic you think it was. But it is principled. Sod tactics.

So should Israel be wiped off the map?

No, never. Israel is a state of eight or nine million people, three-quarters only of them Jewish. Men, women, children. A lot of water has gone under the bridge, we are where we are and we have to make the best of what started as a very bad job (don't you just love cliches?) The history of mankind is littered with examples of stolen land making new countries or expanding existing ones. We live with that and, if we are really trying to be civilised, we try to reconcile historical differences and treat all citizens equally as fellow human beings. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in Israel. In almost every regard, non-Jews in Israel do very badly compared with Jews. That is well-documented and unarguable. I've given details several times in the past, gleaned from reputable sources only, and it's easily checkable. By any measure, that amounts to the perpetuation of the state of Israel as an institutionally-racist endeavour. Not only that, Zionists insist on calling Israel a Jewish state, ignoring the fact that a quarter of its citizens, the ones discriminated against, are not Jews. Applied to any other state, let's say apartheid South Africa or Iain Smith's Rhodesia, and you would never even think of arguing that they weren't racist states. It is very important that we are allowed to state these things with your having the protective umbrella of calling us antisemites for saying so. We are not, because not once have we ever said that these things are done by Jews because that's typical of what Jews do. Never, never, never!

Note that I don't say that Jews are institutionally a racist ethnic group. They are not. Ordinary Jewish people are just the same as ordinary Christian people or ordinary Muslim people. They are who they are by accident of birth and, like everybody else, they listen to, are influenced by and are swayed by their leaders. Like everybody else. No different. Like everybody else. Just like us in the UK, a bit thick on the whole when it comes to politics, not their fault (cf. brexit vote...), therefore rather easily manipulated. There are millions of racist Jews in Israel just as there are millions of racist Brits and even more millions of racist yanks. There's nothing special or exalted about Jews. As a matter of fact, when I take my old mum to Prestwich, where there are thousands of Jews, and do a spot of people-watching from the caff, I can't tell who's a Jew and who isn't. And I don't bloody care. I sort of like that. My mum is always trying to guess, trying to Jew-spot, but she's hopeless at it and I have to remonstrate with her every time we go. Oh, and by the way, that caff is thoroughly Jewish, best coffee in the north, and I gave it five stars on Trip Advisor, and I'd take the lovely lady owner 'ome any day if I could get away with it wi' Mrs Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:37 PM

Last night the BBC radio program(me) "Hard Talk" took on Israel's UN ambassador Danny Danon. The interviewer, Steven Sackur, gave him a hard time. It was a good show. I enjoyed it. It doesn't mean I agreed with everything I heard, but it was precisely the kind of conversation that is necessary in these times, real opinions not soundbites or Twitter chirps. It was not in the least anti-semitic though the BBC interviewer was quite critical. That was his job.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:43 PM

Oh, and the Skripal affair is still a very long way from being resolved. Today, we have the word of the May regime along with a bit of CCTV footage of two rather cheery-looking chaps. Let's wait and see, eh, boobs, and hold fire somewhat on the lynch-mob stuff...?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:49 PM

I'll watch that, robomatic, on catch-up. Sackur is very good. It's always on very late here and has, I suspect, a small audience only. It's instructive to hear you say that it wasn't antisemitic. I think that the pro-Israel advocates would rather like to see us walking on those eggshells all the time...

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:50 PM

Lol Shaw, still fantasizing about sucking Putin's dick I see. They have got them dead to rights - read the news.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:52 PM

Troll.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: bobad
Date: 05 Sep 18 - 09:54 PM

Taste the egg.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 01:26 AM

There are real issues and no one is totally clean. But I discriminate among regimes such as Assad's war torn Syria which are death on civilians, abetted by Russia, and civil societies such as the one maintained by Israel, which incorporate considerable diversity at great cost but with great success.

Too many critics seem to lump 'em together because they are not perfect. Well, there are millions of people fleeing the imperfections in Syria, Yemen, Sudan North and Sudan South, Somalia, Mali, etc. etc. and there are million of people trying to get into Israel. Think if Israel was so bad they'd be trying to get in so hard?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:08 AM

You are right in your assessment that antisemitism in this instance is a trope being used to mask other issues, Robo, but I will have to disagree on what it is being used to mask. The brexiteers do not care about racism. They want to be rid of foreigners anyway. The establishment however are running scared of the rise of the left wing. The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support. It is not working and will, hopefully, continue to backfire as it did in the last election.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:13 AM

We made friends with a lovely Russian lady and her (old) 80 year old mother in our Spanish hotel, lovely people compared with a few arrogant Spanish with their out of control catholic brats!!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:22 AM

Jim Carroll:

Earlier today (when you could still see your screen through the spittle)you wrote:

Among those who have compared their behaviour to that of the nazis are at least two of the ex-heads of Mossad interviewed for the documentary, 'The Gatekeepers - the other four where highly critical but didn't quite go so far

That is a devastating movie which I have watched, and will watch again. It concerns itself with truly difficult, gut-wrenching issues. The difference between those men talking the way they do and you thinking you can use the same terms is that those men know what they're talking about. You do not.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:25 AM

"You are right in your assessment that antisemitism in this instance is a trope being used to mask other issues, Robo, but I will have to disagree on what it is being used to mask. The brexiteers do not care about racism. They want to be rid of foreigners anyway. The establishment however are running scared of the rise of the left wing. The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support."

Spot-on summation Dave. It's a deliberate policy of "Look over there - Labour antisemitism/racism/support for terrorists/yadda yadda" which the government and establishment are using to divert the attention of feeble-minded Daily Mail/Sun/Express readers from the really important issues which will actually affect their lives.

Disgusting dishonesty feeding unbelievable stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:29 AM

The news is only what the May regime wants the news to be bobad. The truth, thats entirely unknown in this case. All that the news says about the Skripal case is unevidenced and hearsay.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:44 AM

There's a couple of photos doing the rounds which show the two men - each one separately and alone - in exactly the same airport corridor, with the date/time stamp exactly the same on each photo. Hmmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:19 AM

Meanwhile to get back on topic,40% of British Jews say they would leave if Corbyn became Prime Minister. This statistic rather suggests there is some naivety in the ranks if the belief is that the antisemistism accusation is but a cunning ruse and distraction technique by the ruling party. About time you accepted that the accusation is real and is publicly acknowledged by Corbyn the vacuous.
I find it extremely entertaining to watch the gymnastics applied by some here in order to avoid the obvious. I suppose if the reality is accepted then you would have to concede that you have backed a loser that is totally unfitted for office. Keep up the gyrations!
The idea that antisemitism in the labour party is figurative or metaphorical is clearly away with the faeries.

Try a search of youtube and you can see corbyn of wimpyland clearly acknowledging the accusation. This does make the counter arguments somewhat facile.
Interestin that the entymology of trope is to turn, a direction, a course.
Presumably this means to take the dark side away from light and truth! Very sad really!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:39 AM

You will need to provide a source for your 40%, but if they are thinking of leaving then they have been duped by the far right press. Where would they leave for? They can't go to Europe because we are losing Freedom of Movement. They are unlikely to be welcome in the USA. Israel? Neither Corbyn, nor anyone in the Labour party, are a threat to British Jews. What they might be a threat to, and even this is really pretty unlikely, is the existence of Israel. So to suggest that they would move to Israel if Corbyn was PM is pretty self-defeating.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:45 AM

Not very impressed by Ians's comment on the origins of the 'trope', which gives the impression he just looked it up to find out what it means, but didn't quite succeed in understanding what he found.

As does this comment:

"The idea that antisemitism in the labour party is figurative or metaphorical is clearly away with the faeries."

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:49 AM

I provided a source yesterday - the Jewish Chronicle.
How they gathered their data or if it would have the same accuracy as a mori poll I have no idea. However the accuracy is to an extent a bye the bye.
I find it incredible that a country that has prided itself on welcoming all races and all creeds for many centuries should have allowed a political party to arise that generates such fear and loathing among a minority.
It makes tommy robinson worthy of canonisation in comparison!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party. There is antisemitism, racism, misogyny and all manner of other issues in all walks of life. The point that it is the same for all political parties and worse on the right wing (See antisemitism barometer). There is also the fact that this only came to light when Corbyn took the lead and became worse when he trashed the Tory lead in the last election. The media make their own news and fools fall for it.

BTW - Analysis of the British Election Study results – the gold standard of UK polling data – shows that 63 per cent of British Jews voted for the Conservatives in 2017, while just 26 per cent said they voted Labour. In the light of those figures it is quite surprising that only 40% said they would leave if Corbyn became PM.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

Karen H etymology is a bit of a hobby of mine. I am fully aware of what it means, both its real meaning and the hijacked nuanced urban dictionary meaning. I suspect in this case it was a trendy lefty word nicked out of the gruniard some past sunny day.
But at the end of the day the question to be answered is whether antisemitism in labour is real or a a conjuration of the tories.
From the mouth of Corbyn we have no option but to accept the reality of the accusation. It is not a case of taking the red pill or the blue pill. The issue is real, has been proven, and perhaps been dealt with(time will tell)
In my view this entire insanity has been created by the party leadership being totally ineffectual. For a party hungry for votes come election time, this little escapade will cost them dearly in the poll booth. I suspect the issue will not die and support will wither away.
Democracy requires an able opposition in order to function properly.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:11 AM

"Earlier today (when you could still see your screen through the spittle)you wrote:"
Yesterday (before you decided the best method of defence was personal abuse) your defence of Israel was that there were worse (a dubious point point anyway)
Can you justify that somewhat schoolyard-level argument

I have asked you peopele over and over again what exactly you are accusing the Labour Party of
I think the fact than not one of you have had the bottle (or good manners) to reply indicates you have no answer, which is answer enough
If you have no accusation, you have no case, which most of us here are aware of anyway

"40% of British Jews say they would leave if Corbyn became Prime Minister."
And still accusations without substantiation - this gets more and more Kafkaesque by the minute
There is little doubt my mind that Antisemitism

Some world reports
Apr 23, 2017 - In contrast, English-speaking countries saw a rise in antisemitic incidents: The UK saw an increase of 11%, though the rate of violent incidents

America
Mar 17, 2018 - Anti-Semitic hate crimes are on the rise, up 57 percent in 2017 from 2016, the ... something to head off, especially when the rise of anti-Semitism is ... stories feed the larger narrative of a debauched world of liberalism that needs cleansing by fire.

Europe
The anti-Semitism news from Europe in over the past year has been terrible: Jews murdered in Paris and Copenhagen, synagogues attacked by mobs and firebombed, and increasing Jewish emigration attributed to fear of more attacks.

CANADA

Corbyn must be a very powerful man, doncha think?

World antisemitism is sharply on the rise and it's the fault of the British Labour party!!!!!!
Are you out of your mind?

ANTISEMITISM IS ON THE RISE AGAIN IN LINE WITH THE RISE OF RIGHT-WING POLITICS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD - TRUMP'S AMERICA, BREXIT BRITAIN, EUROPLEAN NEO-NAZIS, RIGHT WING POLITICS IN FORMER COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, ISRAEL POPULISM DRIVEN BY ZENOPHOBIA - a gradual swing to the right throughout the world   

Antisemitism is the domain o the right - not the left - it always has been and it always will be
THe Holocaust was a right-wing affair paid for by German indistrial capitlism

Whatever the cause of it, I suggest that Israel's identifying their extremist policies as "Jewish" hasn't helped
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:19 AM

Robo, I am sure you will be interested to note that you are now a 'trendy lefty' who nicked the word trope 'out of the gruniard some past sunny day.'!

You need to pick your allies more carefully. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:20 AM

MORE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:21 AM

The attacks on Corbyn and any of his allies are to try and remove his popular support. It is not working and will, hopefully, continue to backfire as it did in the last election.

How can you keep up that pretence and denial?
The accusations of anti-Semitism all emerged from within the party.
The whole leadership including Corbyn acknowledge that it is real.
Corbyn actually stated that people like you who deny it and claim it is fabricated are part of the problem.

You have been shown to be wrong in your assessment over and over again, but you keep on repeating it like some mantra!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:22 AM

The term was used by another first, BTW, but as he is a master of changing the meaning of what he said it is not worth going down that route.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:23 AM

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 04:07 AM

No one, as far as I know, has ever denied that there is antisemitism in the Labour party...