BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:21 PM

I'm a bit of an old fashioned working class lefty...
and emotionally I'm completely indifferent to this girl
[well the mrs says I can be a heartless bastard..].
In fact I find her detestable..

But even if the extent of my compassion for her is minimal to say the least,
I do have sufficient intelligence to accept rational reasons
why she should be brought back home for questioning, trial and sentence....
Hopefully leading in the longer term to her reasonable rehabilitation in mainstream UK society...

So that's where I fit in the spectrum between lovers and haters of this girl..

I don't think my views on this issue are that uncommon...???

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 02:12 PM

no Dave, I think I'm I'm saying its easier to feel indulgent about murderous acts that don't happen on your doorstep.

I don't think she'd been groomed any more than West Indian kids who'd listened to Bob Marley and others advising them to smoke the hern, thus criminalising them. Some of the kids I taught ended up doing life sentences, with no public sympathy.

I'm saying public sympathy is VERY selective, and class based. Islamophobia is one of the current buzzwords amongst the left.

maybe the sight of severed heads should have phased her - ever so slightly at least. Maybe if one of those heads belonged to a member of your friends or family, you might see what i was saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 01:57 PM

'should nobody have lifted a hand while Assad's thugs publicly massacred his people - that was what was happenin'

Well the International Brigade and the factions opposing Franco probably didn't have completely clean sheet. Its not really in the nature of war that either side is free from the taint of atrocities.

it sounds to me as though you are grouping them together as comparable.

either that or you are proposing something far more complicated than i have understood.

in that part of the world its a close call who is the most corrupt.....that's the reality of the choices our leaders have to make. if you think we should be backing ISIS, all I can say is that's your right. Its not my opinion however.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 01:35 PM

The other thing, Al, is that the reported involvement in helping with suicide vests etc. is all weasel words. Things like 'witnesses claim' and 'intelligence sources told this newspaper they have been informed'. No actual facts in evidence at all. If you feel like believing the MSM, feel free but don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you do.

I am not at all sure about your claim that it is only 'middle class intellectuals who feel compassion for this girl. Are you trying to tell us that the working class are not intellectual or that they are unfeeling Daily Heil zombies?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 12:44 PM

"well if thats your stated belief that the people who joined ISIS are to be honoured in the way that honour the memory of the International Brigade"
That's not what I said Al
I said they should not be criminalised - both were
I've given my reasons; you would make your case far better if you addressed what I said rather than putting up what I didn't mean

Assad is the West's self-created monster; criminalising the actions of people who tried to do something about him (for whatever reason) doesn't alter that fact one iota
What should have happened - should nobody have lifted a hand while Assad's thugs publicly massacred his people - that was what was happening ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 11:30 AM

well if thats your stated belief that the people who joined ISIS are to be honoured in the way that honour the memory of the International Brigade. I guess that's your opinion and your entitled to it.

I persoanlly doen't really feel like that. Still its your opinion and you are of course entitled to it. And we should respect your right to that opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 11:16 AM

""Mr Fox; Join Us in the Song ""
Sorry 'bout that
Thought I'd scanned in Al's words - copied down something from the abum digitisation 'm doing (hope nobody thinks I like 'Mr Fox')
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:58 AM

"Mr Fox; Join Us in the Song "
Not sure who your "middle class intellectuals" is aimed at Al
I'm a retired electrician who was taught to respect all forms of human life with all its failings
This young woman became a victim of a policy of ignoring the acts of a mass murderer until his crimes became too obvious to ignore
Even when they did, our Government chose to do nothing about them, so thousands of young Muslims stepped into the gap that western policy created
There is no agreed definition of a Jihadist - it is a religious term which has nothing whatever to do with terrorism, but has become such through deliberate misuse
Britain's hands have been soaked in Syrian blood since Assad came to [power - they were fully aware of the mass murder and torture that was taking place, yet the regime remained our ally to the extent that we licenced much of the equipment that was used against peaceful protesters demanding the end to poverty and persecution, not just in Syria but in the rest of the Arab world
Cameron launched a massive arms fair a week after the Arab Spring protests started
I see great parallels between the inhman manner in which this girl is being treated and how my father was treated when he came back from fighting fascism in Spain
The West's inaction helped empower Isis, now its victims are exiled to live in squalor - they incluce both the Syrian refugees who will be refused entry to Britain when/if Brexit is settled, and those who went off to take up the fight that Britain should have waged
Those who did this have shamed Britain
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:58 AM

"Mr Fox; Join Us in the Song "
Not sure who your "middle class intellectuals" is aimed at Al
I'm a retired electrician who was taught to respect all forms of human life with all its failings
This young woman became a victim of a policy of ignoring the acts of a mass murderer until his crimes became too obvious to ignore
Even when they did, our Government chose to do nothing about them, so thousands of young Muslims stepped into the gap that western policy created
There is no agreed definition of a Jihadist - it is a religious term which has nothing whatever to do with terrorism, but has become such through deliberate misuse
Britain's hands have been soaked in Syrian blood since Assad came to [power - they were fully aware of the mass murder and torture that was taking place, yet the regime remained our ally to the extent that we licenced much of the equipment that was used against peaceful protesters demanding the end to poverty and persecution, not just in Syria but in the rest of the Arab world
Cameron launched a massive arms fair a week after the Arab Spring protests started
I see great parallels between the inhman manner in which this girl is being treated and how my father was treated when he came back from fighting fascism in Spain
The West's inaction helped empower Isis, now its victims are exiled to live in squalor - they incluce both the Syrian refugees who will be refused entry to Britain when/if Brexit is settled, and those who went off to take up the fight that Britain should have waged
Those who did this have shamed Britain
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:38 AM

I suppose on reflection what I mean is that we all know teachers, shopkeepers,   policemen, soldiers...young kids playing football on a carpark like that kid in manchester. We all know people like that. We don't want to see a threat to them.

Whereas this young lady took a gap year to join a gang murdering people that we don't know, and we don't know abpout their lives.

So we feel different.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:24 AM

I think what pisses me off most about middle class intellectuals is their partisanship.

When i was a teacher in the ineer ring of Brum, I saw lots of kids sucked into a life of crime and ....prison, unemployment...and really no one had any sympathy for them. they were working class kids, often without the influence and exampleof a father, who went out to work.

And then came the drugs....do the middle classes not see any connection between the coke they sniff, the pills their kids pop...and those kids with knives that are regarded as feral vermin by the middle class commentators?

And look at how how the disadvantaged kids responsible for the jamie Bulger murder would have been lynched by a howling mob. And no great care seems to have taken over their rehabilitation.

And yet this young lady. she seems to have won your hearts.....poor dear, groomed to join a gang of international murderers, torturers, severed heads - just part of the furniture, probably belonging to no one important......

you left wingers don't seem very left wing to me. .

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:16 AM

Shhhh...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 10:05 AM

I merely put forward the view of the responsible authorities. To try to say it is a raw nerve merely demonstrates the paucity of your argument.
To claim that someone that allegedly knitted bodywarmers for suicide bombers is the subject of child abuse make me wonder just what vestigial contact with reality you still have. I suspect even you must have a problem believing some of your more asinine statements. Therefore I conclude you only post in order to sow discord and play the little innocent victim when your more ridiculous assertions are robustly rejected. I am surprised more do not recognize your transparent little ruse. It really gets tiresome.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 09:43 AM

"Don't engage with him at all, Jim"
Sorry - couldn't resist Steve - easy meat
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 09:30 AM

Don't engage with him at all, Jim. You can see from the brexit thread that he's being monitored. Make the mods' job easier by ignoring him.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 08:47 AM

Another raw nerve it would appear

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 08:18 AM

Because of defeats in the courts, in 2014 an amendment changed Section 40 of the 1981 British Nationality Act to introduce a new power for the home secretary to cancel the citizenship of single nationality holders even at the risk of creating a stateless person. This was specifically tailored to fit the UK’s obligations under international law, and can only take place for conduct that is deemed seriously prejudicial to national interests.

I think we can be sure that the authorities know far more about the background of the person than we do. As all the lefties argue politicians know better than the little people the squawking over this particular case rings a tad hollow. Can I rent you a brand new bandwagon to jump on, the present one looks a little tawdry.

Even for jimmies love of provocative statements, to declare it an atrocity is simply stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 07:51 AM

"Just a reminder that in this country we don't call people criminals until they have been tried and found guilty of crimes. "
And only barbaric regimes of the type Britain is in danger of becoming ignore the age and circumstances of those they try (or in this case, refuse to try)
Now the defenders of this atrocity is comparing Britain to other countries - whataboutism is always a good sign that they have no decent answer to this State atrocity
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 07:30 AM

In many jurisdictions simply joining ISIS is a criminal act. Revocation of citizenship is also because of criminality. The burden of proof was obviously sufficient for the authorities to make that decision. That is good enough for me,in this instance.



Stop pursuing children - there's a name for that sort of thing

Oh dear???????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 07:15 AM

Just a reminder that in this country we don't call people criminals until they have been tried and found guilty of crimes.

What was that line in Andy Irvine's song about Sacco and Vanzetti: "They're reds and what more do you need..."

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 07:06 AM

Stop pursuing children - there's a name for that sort of thing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:45 AM

The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10 years. She started her life of crime at age 15 and can be treated as an adult from age 18.

Your argument is both fatuous and vacuous.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:31 AM

This pursuit of a young person who took the decision she did when she was legally a child verges on Child abuse - no stranger to PAST MEMBERS OF OUR ESTABLISHMENT
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:05 AM

Does vigorous include waterboarding and other such delights?

In a ranking of credibility how does it compare with mainstream news stories about Trump and Assage?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 07:03 PM

Considered opinion* is that should make her even more valuable
for vigorous debreifing
by security services back here in the UK...


{* slightly more credible than half wit knee jerk opinion...???]

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 06:31 PM

An interesting progression in the case of the jihadi bride.
Apparently her ISIS followers grassed her and the Prime Minister and Home Secretary have been briefed by the intelligence services about claims that British-born Ms Begum was witnessed preparing suicide vests for would-be martyrs – sewing them on to the bombers so that the devices could not be removed without detonation.

Obviously not quite the little innocent she was painted to be, though she fooled many posting here!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM

what.. is there a petition demanding poor little Tommy Robinson
refrains from talking like a paranoid pillock, stays quietly out the limelight, and stops acting like a victim...???

where do we sign...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:57 AM

Are you saying you didn't pass around the Tommy Robinson petition ?
Your abuse nature is comign to teh fore again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:44 AM

the man who passed around the Poor, misunderstood Tommy Robinson petition


amd asking the resident anglophobe to substantiate his statement is on a par with p****ng in the wind.

Read a post, misunderstand it, fire off a response without thinking or checking and bleat when he has a less than complimentary response. How many threads does little jimmie have the same accusations leveled at him, both above and below the line. A myriad even in the last week.
Idiot !

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 09:30 AM

A GENTLE REMINDER #]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 07:00 AM

Nice to see the moronic right are now lumping in Momentum with terrorist organisations, the man who passed around the Poor, misunderstood Tommy Robinson petition
Really out of the closet as to the right's future dreams now
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 06:37 AM

"None as far as I can see."
Virtually none as Iain's list shows - most of them are defunct and have been since the eighties - forty years ago
The current threat of terrorism is overwhelmingly that of thee right - based on the racist genii Brexit let out of the bottle
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM

And how many persons have been killed in the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?

None as far as I can see. There was certainly left wing atrocities going back to Stalin's time and the 60's spawned a lot of Che Guevara wannabes but the last decade? Nah. In fact I would extend that to 20 years of more. Looks like religious fundamentalists and right wing nutters have the monopoly on terrorism now.

It seems that the far right want to tar the left as ineffective, sandal wearing, bearded weirdos and rabid militant terrorists at the same time. Provides hours of entertainment watching the Daily Heil readers trying to square that particular circle.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:09 AM

Here is a starter for 10!
https://listverse.com/2016/10/01/10-left-wing-terrorist-organizations-from-around-the-world/
I imagine the security forces keep a close tab on corbyn and his little mates as well.
It will be a glorious sunny fdaty when outfits like Unite and Momentum are proscribed. After all Unite cannot be both a rabid political organisation and also act for the best interests of the members of Amicus and the Transport and General Workers' Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 04:29 AM

"the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?"
How many ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:22 PM

PFR there are extremes on all sides.

And how many persons have been killed in the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:59 PM

PFR there are extremes on all sides. And they have in common their definition of the problem (someone else) and their solution (kill them and terrify the rest).

The important thing to keep in mind is to "keep calm and carry on" and to know that the extremists are losers who WILL LOSE.

The problem is to minimized the damage in lives and time lost.

It reminds me of an old poster that used to hang in my engineering class: "For every complicated problem there is a simple solution. . .




. . .and it's wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:08 AM

My post last night was made before i turned on the BBC news reports on Christchurch...

The global extreme right does not distinguish betwen 'good [peacful]' and 'bad [isis]' muslims...

Everyday my youtube home page becomes increasingly swamped with far right propaganda channels - like it's now the acceptable norm...

..from the nutcase conspiracy theorists to the blatantly sinister...

[American owned Ai viewing algorithms seem to have a natural trend towards the far right...???]

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 09:31 AM

Was it not a response to mythical MOABS created most of this mess? And American oil being in the wrong countries!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 09:28 PM

Maybe my sardonic suggestion about dropping a few surprise MOABs on the squalid ISIS prison camps
aint too far from what some folks would genuinely desire as a solution...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:24 PM

The treatment of Yazidis, otherwise known as genocide.


https://www.nazandbegikhani.com/info/why-isis-s-treatment-of-yazidi-women-must-be-treated-as-genocide-630.html
The above is an illustration of what wannabe returning jihadis are capable of.

Incarcerate,punish if required, free only after being subjected to successful intensive de radicalization programs. Far better such a process is carried out in their country of capture, where more robust measures exist to deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:05 PM

On the radio this morning there was an article about a Yazidi trying to ransom back Yazidi captives. The ISIS 'fighters' were passing them around to each other and arguing prices: The eleven year old was not worth as much because she was no longer a virgin.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 02:59 PM

Why should they go anywhere, the European adults who went to fight for isis? Let'm stay where they chose to be.

The children who chose to go there are a different story. But the grownups?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 01:18 PM

Before they are allowed into our countries they may be willing to provide information and answer question. For instance, I'd like to know if the ISIS bride beat her slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 01:21 PM

PFR I am sure the countries that have them would be quite taken with the idea of punishing those invaders that have aided and abetted the destruction of their countries. They can request the UN authorize the subsequent billing for board and lodging to the respective countries of origin of their prisoners. I am sure there would be innumerable countries around the world that would vote to support such an idea, as many have score to settle with western countries that have been meddling in their internal affairs for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:18 AM

Iains - so where should British and other European IS fighters / camp followers stay, or be dispersed to...???

Which other nation's problems should they be...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/britain-strips-two-more-isil-brides-of-citizenship-37896852.html

"The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has consistently advised against travel to Syria since April 2011."

Conservative Party chairman Brandon Lewis defended Mr Javid, telling Today: "There is no question that the duty of a home secretary in this country is to keep British people safe."

65,000,000/3
The argument in a nutshell, apart from those blinded by ideology and a penchant for rose tinted glasses.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM

"quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in"

Excellent observation Iains!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:36 PM

An observation worth repeating and further reinforcing yet again:.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

"Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming."

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

"Backward man you are a tad behind the curve."

And then, same poster:

"Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious"

Earlier, same poster again:

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life.Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

And now:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:04 AM

"Good to see even the Guardian talks some sense, unlike the quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..........!"

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:27 PM

Ms Begum is not a potential refugee. We can discuss refugee policies too, but there is a fundamental distinction to be made in her case, as well as of others in a similar predicament, and real refugees.