BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 07:51 AM

Not just my thoughts.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Aiding-the-Enemy.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:08 AM

"It is not a crime, in the UK, to marry an Isis fighter, or travel to the caliphate. The Australians have made it a crime to travel to certain regions, but a similar provision in the UK is only just about to become law. It is a crime to have aided and abetted a proscribed terrorist organisation. But sentences for that have been far too short to reflect what is arguably Ms Begum’s betrayal of her country by helping its enemies. Those enemies seek to destroy our democracy, our human rights and our people."


https://www.ft.com/content/157c8e12-3053-11e9-8744-e7016697f225

You could perhaps argue the jihadi bride was a victim when first departing Britain but that argument falls apart when after 4 years the "victim" cries help only because as a hardened jihadist her caliphate is evaporating around her ears and turning into piles of rubble.
Forgiveness starts with remorse!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM

Iains - let's clarify one thing here..

I responded to your line "You support our enemies, then you are our enemy!"
as from the general tone of your posts, and the fact it directly follows a quote of my writing,
it looks in context like a direct dig at me...

I'm sick of all the "If youre not with us you're against us" zealot fukwits...

If however that line is about this girl, not me, then I suggest you should have made that clearer...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:35 AM

PFR if I was having a dig at you I would hope I would be far more transparent. I can assure you I was talking solely about the girl and trying to demonstrate that in other jurisdictions her actions would unquestionably have been unlawful, despite all her apologists on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:05 AM

Ok then.. just keep in mind I try to remain objective and thinking independently for myself.
I don't follow 'party lines'...
Even if my ideas and conclusions do end up in accord with others...

I don't like this girl,
but I think where practicable, there are good compassionate and pragmatic reasons
to give her and other teens like her a 2nd chance...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:24 AM

PFR that idea is all very well Providing a period on incarceration and extensive interrogation establishes no vestigial threat exists. In the light of my post about underage WW1 volunteers I cannot accept jihadi brides were young easily bamboozled idiots led astray. I see it more as cool, calculated betrayal of their adopted country, as would many other countries. That should incur penalties. Then we can consider reintegration into society(perhaps!)

This is likely the pattern of modern asymmetric warfare. It is well past the time we had the correct legal framework to deal with it. To use a definition of treason developed 700 years ago makes a mockery of both Parliament and the Judiciary.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

Given how many people this is going to happen to, the conditions they are forced to live in and what Assad is likely to do about them, this is quite likely to escalate into a massive humanitarian crisis
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 10:23 AM

"PFR that idea is all very well Providing a period on incarceration and extensive interrogation establishes no vestigial threat exists."

I'm not going to be arsed to read the entire thread again but, from memory, I'm pretty sure that's precisely what those of us whom you persist in insulting by the use of epithets such as 'apologists' and 'the fluffy bunny brigade' have proposed. It's certainly what I suggested in my very first post on this thread....my post of 15 Feb 19 07:52 AM -

"For, I think, the first time ever, I'm in absolute agreement with Jacob "Call Me Jake" Rees-Mogg - she should be admitted to the UK, then thoroughly investigated and subjected to the due process of law. If that involves her being kept in detention during that time, so be it."

I won't hold my breath for you to apologise for insulting those with whom you now appear to agree - you have neither the grace nor the balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

Senoufou, you might find the strategies described here of interest:

I'm listen"The roots of extremism, with Deeyah Khan," on The Ezra Klein Show with @TuneIn.

http://tun.in/ti0LDQ

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 12:53 PM

If anything I have slightly hardened my position. UK law does not acknowledge her defection to Isis is by itself a crime. I would argue it should be. She should be both punished and incarcerated until it is established she poses no threat.

There are those that argue:
she has been groomed, trafficked and horribly abused

She is brainwashed. She was an immature teen when she went. She has lived for years amongst extremists


She was a child when she left and is not yet out of her teens.

etc etc

There are some here who are saying "they were just kids" and are the same people who were campaigning for the referendum voting age to be lowered to 16 on the grounds that people of that age are perfectly capable of exercising mature judgement.

The fluffy bunnies are those that seek excuses and refuse to acknowledge the crime. You backwoodsman have never been among their number on this thread.

I do not think that saying coochie, coochie coo and handing out a giro is really going to hack it!r

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 01:37 PM

Iains - how far back did I say I'd agree in principle with well run humane [remote island ?] internment camps...???

All practical and financial complexities aside...

Surely it's better for European countries to take back their own citizens,
and hold them in constructive guarded quarantine for as long as necessary
- splitting them up and spreading them round in smaller controlable units.
Than having them all concentrated in one festering mega camp where they continue to be uncontrolled and further radicalised...

The small children in this squalid camp are tomorrow's bitter fanatical terrorists...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 02:51 PM

PFR Those that are offspring of recent immigrants should realise that with citizenship comes responsibility. By joining our enemies are they not rejecting the citizenship we offer? Stripping citizenship from a few such people sends a very strong message to those that may wish to follow. There are no quikfixes. Each measured response has an upside and downside. What message is required to be sent and what is the best means of transmission? The unfortunate death of the child reduces the complexity of possible solutions but makes them no easier. The fact many are incarcerated in a warzone is a fault of their own creation. The war in Syria and Iraq has been largely driven by Isis for the last couple of years at least. What justification can be offered to risk additional lives in order to extract them from a hell they were instrumental in creating? Repatriating the millions of refugees would be a far more noble effort in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:03 PM

Iains - What's the most expedient answer then - evacuate the camp humanitarian workers
and then drop a MOAB on it...!!!???




Bonz.. curb your excitement.. I'm not being serious...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:37 PM

No excitement - I'm just pondering the fortnightly slog of putting out recycling from behind our garage for tomorrow morning's collection, for which car in garage must first be removed then put back !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM

On our street, I have to keep early morning vigil to stop the bins being nicked...

oh.. the stresses of living in the developed Western world....

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:55 PM

It is blowing a hoolie where I am. Severe gale 9.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:37 PM

I don't suppose Assad is generous with mosquito nets in the Syrian camps, so one can only assume that there must be millions of mosquitoes needlesly dying of AIDS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:57 PM

"The unfortunate death of the child reduces the complexity of possible solutions..."

Christ on a bloody bike.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 PM

The camp of the young lady in question is I believe in the Kurdish enclave in the NE. President Assad has yet to reclaim that area.of his country. The malaria risk is low. There is probably a higher risk of
Leishmaniasis from sandflies. In the time I worked in Syria I heard no mention of malaria, unlike Angola and a lot of tropical West Africa, where not taking antimalarials could pose a real hazard.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 04:06 AM

Most bizarre that a self proclaimed atheist feels the need to introduce "Christ on a bike" to make some kind of statement. After all Merriam Webster clearly defines atheist as a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 08:21 AM

Most bizarre that someone who constantly quotes the Christian Gospel shows not a shred of Christian charity and humanity in his postings concerning a teenager who has just lost her recently born child
What we've cone to expect, I suppose
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:16 AM

That's it, Jim. But don't forget how the "unfortunate" deaths of children make "solutions" simpler...

Sounds like an echo of something else from long ago, doesn't it...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:24 AM

Yup certainly does - it's called having your cake and eating it
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:04 AM

Good to see even the Guardian talks some sense,unlike the quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..........!

In October 2016 in Morocco, 10 women were arrested for plotting a suicide attack during parliamentary elections, four of which had seemingly married Isis members in Iraq and Syria over the internet.
Last year, British security services foiled a terror attack on the British Museum in London, and the country’s first all-female terror cell linked to Isis was arrested and convicted this year. Safaa Boular, a British teenager who went on to marry an Isis fighter online, was part-radicalised by a female Australian national in Syria. and on and on!


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/23/number-of-women-and-children-joining-isis-significantly-underestimated

Their patently false outrage is getting a tad wearing doncha think?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:43 AM

Onwarr Christian soldiers seems appropriate

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:20 PM

Europe, particularly Germany and the Nordic countries, has taken hundreds of thousands of Syrians and various ME refugees in an unprecedented resettlement effort. Turkey and Lebanon have sizable resettlement camps. I think the UK and US have some latitude in accepting the odd lot while not forgetting that a legal precedent will be established.
One thing that is being willfully ignored is that the means exist of technologically monitoring an awful lot of people awful closely. Maybe we don't want or deserve it for ourselves, but if I was a refugee with honest intentions I'd welcome it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:27 PM

Ms Begum is not a potential refugee. We can discuss refugee policies too, but there is a fundamental distinction to be made in her case, as well as of others in a similar predicament, and real refugees.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 06:36 PM

An observation worth repeating and further reinforcing yet again:.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

"Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming."

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

"Backward man you are a tad behind the curve."

And then, same poster:

"Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious"

Earlier, same poster again:

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life.Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

And now:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:04 AM

"Good to see even the Guardian talks some sense, unlike the quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..........!"

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:30 AM

"quaint, lefty cuckoo land the 2 posters above live in"

Excellent observation Iains!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 10:57 AM

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/britain-strips-two-more-isil-brides-of-citizenship-37896852.html

"The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has consistently advised against travel to Syria since April 2011."

Conservative Party chairman Brandon Lewis defended Mr Javid, telling Today: "There is no question that the duty of a home secretary in this country is to keep British people safe."

65,000,000/3
The argument in a nutshell, apart from those blinded by ideology and a penchant for rose tinted glasses.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 11:18 AM

Iains - so where should British and other European IS fighters / camp followers stay, or be dispersed to...???

Which other nation's problems should they be...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 19 - 01:21 PM

PFR I am sure the countries that have them would be quite taken with the idea of punishing those invaders that have aided and abetted the destruction of their countries. They can request the UN authorize the subsequent billing for board and lodging to the respective countries of origin of their prisoners. I am sure there would be innumerable countries around the world that would vote to support such an idea, as many have score to settle with western countries that have been meddling in their internal affairs for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 01:18 PM

Before they are allowed into our countries they may be willing to provide information and answer question. For instance, I'd like to know if the ISIS bride beat her slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 02:59 PM

Why should they go anywhere, the European adults who went to fight for isis? Let'm stay where they chose to be.

The children who chose to go there are a different story. But the grownups?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:05 PM

On the radio this morning there was an article about a Yazidi trying to ransom back Yazidi captives. The ISIS 'fighters' were passing them around to each other and arguing prices: The eleven year old was not worth as much because she was no longer a virgin.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 03:24 PM

The treatment of Yazidis, otherwise known as genocide.


https://www.nazandbegikhani.com/info/why-isis-s-treatment-of-yazidi-women-must-be-treated-as-genocide-630.html
The above is an illustration of what wannabe returning jihadis are capable of.

Incarcerate,punish if required, free only after being subjected to successful intensive de radicalization programs. Far better such a process is carried out in their country of capture, where more robust measures exist to deal with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 19 - 09:28 PM

Maybe my sardonic suggestion about dropping a few surprise MOABs on the squalid ISIS prison camps
aint too far from what some folks would genuinely desire as a solution...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 09:31 AM

Was it not a response to mythical MOABS created most of this mess? And American oil being in the wrong countries!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:08 AM

My post last night was made before i turned on the BBC news reports on Christchurch...

The global extreme right does not distinguish betwen 'good [peacful]' and 'bad [isis]' muslims...

Everyday my youtube home page becomes increasingly swamped with far right propaganda channels - like it's now the acceptable norm...

..from the nutcase conspiracy theorists to the blatantly sinister...

[American owned Ai viewing algorithms seem to have a natural trend towards the far right...???]

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 03:59 PM

PFR there are extremes on all sides. And they have in common their definition of the problem (someone else) and their solution (kill them and terrify the rest).

The important thing to keep in mind is to "keep calm and carry on" and to know that the extremists are losers who WILL LOSE.

The problem is to minimized the damage in lives and time lost.

It reminds me of an old poster that used to hang in my engineering class: "For every complicated problem there is a simple solution. . .




. . .and it's wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Mar 19 - 10:22 PM

PFR there are extremes on all sides.

And how many persons have been killed in the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 04:29 AM

"the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?"
How many ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:09 AM

Here is a starter for 10!
https://listverse.com/2016/10/01/10-left-wing-terrorist-organizations-from-around-the-world/
I imagine the security forces keep a close tab on corbyn and his little mates as well.
It will be a glorious sunny fdaty when outfits like Unite and Momentum are proscribed. After all Unite cannot be both a rabid political organisation and also act for the best interests of the members of Amicus and the Transport and General Workers' Union.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM

And how many persons have been killed in the last decade by left-wing terrorists, pray?

None as far as I can see. There was certainly left wing atrocities going back to Stalin's time and the 60's spawned a lot of Che Guevara wannabes but the last decade? Nah. In fact I would extend that to 20 years of more. Looks like religious fundamentalists and right wing nutters have the monopoly on terrorism now.

It seems that the far right want to tar the left as ineffective, sandal wearing, bearded weirdos and rabid militant terrorists at the same time. Provides hours of entertainment watching the Daily Heil readers trying to square that particular circle.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 06:37 AM

"None as far as I can see."
Virtually none as Iain's list shows - most of them are defunct and have been since the eighties - forty years ago
The current threat of terrorism is overwhelmingly that of thee right - based on the racist genii Brexit let out of the bottle
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 07:00 AM

Nice to see the moronic right are now lumping in Momentum with terrorist organisations, the man who passed around the Poor, misunderstood Tommy Robinson petition
Really out of the closet as to the right's future dreams now
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 09:30 AM

A GENTLE REMINDER #]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:44 AM

the man who passed around the Poor, misunderstood Tommy Robinson petition


amd asking the resident anglophobe to substantiate his statement is on a par with p****ng in the wind.

Read a post, misunderstand it, fire off a response without thinking or checking and bleat when he has a less than complimentary response. How many threads does little jimmie have the same accusations leveled at him, both above and below the line. A myriad even in the last week.
Idiot !

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 11:57 AM

Are you saying you didn't pass around the Tommy Robinson petition ?
Your abuse nature is comign to teh fore again
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Should 'Jihadi bride' come back to UK?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM

what.. is there a petition demanding poor little Tommy Robinson
refrains from talking like a paranoid pillock, stays quietly out the limelight, and stops acting like a victim...???

where do we sign...?????