Labour - the party of Remain

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 10:30 AM

201... on the presumtion that it could soon be 200 for a few minutes..

before becoming at best guess probably 185 or thereabouts...

So... Chaps 200 could be up for grabs again some time very soon...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 10:55 AM

If everybody ignored the ignorant, deranged twerp, the mods wouldn't need to delete posts, pfr.

IGNORE THE BLOODY TROLL!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 11:13 AM

BWM - hah.. you got 200 without realising and claiming it...

Now you'll have to live with the shame..
Wait till DtG finds out...

This is a serious matter...!!!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 11:23 AM

I've abandoned all hope on this one PFR!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM

So.. are we awaiting announcement of the new liberal leader with bated breath...???

..thought not...

OH wait.. breaking news.. it's.. ah who cares...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 01:56 PM

"ah who cares..."
Never thought I'd regard the Lib Dems as having any uses but the more Boris and the Braindeads are shown to be in a class of their own, the better
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 02:24 PM

The leftards do not like a dose of their own medicine judging by the anguished squeals. How sad!

Meanwhile buried in among the Guardian's numerous appeals, for fools to part with their dosh to fund their rants, there is an article highlighting:
Labour still doesn’t take the threat of Boris Johnson seriously
I can well understand how this arises with compo corbyn at the helm.
I would give better odds on the Titanic having a successful outcome!! (and we all know how that ended up)

Among the membership 43% say he’s doing a bad job; more than 70% see antisemitism as a genuine problem; and 27% want the leader to stand down immediately. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
Corbyn and his allies made it a point of honour to ignore not just the mainstream media but also the opinion polls. This made sense when the polls were (with a few honourable exceptions) wildly unenlightening and the media (again, with exceptions) indefensibly credulous. Yet the leadership remains wedded to the idea that negative polling can be dismissed as an establishment plot, and stolidly resists any data that goes against a precast narrative.

That latter point seems very reminiscent of much posting on here. Obviously analysis of lessons learnt is a lost art here.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 19 - 04:31 PM

Among the membership 43% say he’s doing a bad job

So 57% think he is doing a good job. Better majority than the brexit vote then.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 07:50 AM

BoJo scares the living shit out of everyone but the few thousand old, rich, white men who voted him to lead the country into the abyss while they get richer. Normal people are either shaking their heads in disbelief, laughing their socks off or battening down the hatches.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 09:46 AM

"He's like an attention seeking toddler who won't go to sleep..
The more he argues, sqwarks, and whines, the longer he might extend his bedtime
and gain attention from the grown ups..."

Absolutely correct, pfr. In a different life he'd be one of the morons going round spraying graffiti on shop-windows and public buildings. And every time his crap was cleaned off, he'd be back spraying more.

SO IGNORE THE DAFT BUGGER!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 11:26 AM

From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 19 - 03:00 AM
Labour - the party of trying to get the tories out of power,
even if difficult political decisions and compromises must be reluctantly made along the way
in order to prioritise achieving that primary objective...


So the primary purpose of Labour is to depose the Conservatives?

Will they be happy to do this and let the Brexit party in, or the Lib Dems?

Surely the Labour party should have something positive which they aim to achieve, even if they are telling neither the general public nor their members.


I think that, for once, you've summed up the situation perfectly.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:03 PM

It's at times like this I miss Keith - as difficult and obsessed an opponent as he was,
at least he did have some humanity and concern for other people...

I doubt there's a cell in Nigel's and Iain's bodies
that isn't spiteful and loathesome...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:10 PM

I'm buggred if I can be bothered replying to nigel again, if it just gets deleted within minutes...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:23 PM

I do like all the unpalatable truths being deleted. It merely highlights the fact that the left inhabits a bubble of delusion and cannot live with reality.

Hilarious !!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

Iains - no.. it's more likely a stressed and fed up mod thinks we're all a bunch of tiresome c@nts...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 19 - 12:48 PM

"Surely the Labour party should have something positive which they aim to achieve, even if they are telling neither the general public nor their members."

The Labour Party (the opposition, remember, Nigel, not the executive) has a firm policy of putting any deal to a public vote. That seems clear enough to me as a member. Personally, I should like the stance to be anti-brexit. But the current position is clear. I should also like to remind you that, just over two short years ago, Labour concentrated in the election campaign on putting forward the costed policies in their manifesto, whether you thought they were realistic or not, whereas your party concentrated on obsessively trying to demonise Jeremy Corbyn. The manifesto didn't get much of a look in. See where that got you.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 04:32 AM

"SO IGNORE THE DAFT BUGGER!"
Sorry Baccky - couldn't resist the self-humiliating clown
Won't happen again
Jim

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 09:34 AM

TOO GOOD NOT TO SHARE _ BORIS TAKES OFFICE

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 10:18 AM

The Labour Party (the opposition, remember, Nigel, not the executive) has a firm policy of putting any deal to a public vote. That seems clear enough to me as a member. Personally, I should like the stance to be anti-brexit. But the current position is clear.
That does seem clear, if it is the whole policy of the Labour Party with regard to Brexit.
Just to be totally clear, they want any deal put to public vote.
If it looks like there will be no-deal then they have no policy?

Even when you try to make things explicit and clear about where the party stands there are still gaping holes.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 10:26 AM

"explicit and clear about where the party stands there are still gaping holes."
Says a supporter of the party that has been at each others throats for three years and is still unable to agree on the most important decision Britain has ever had to make
The problem is that the Government should never have allowed such a divisive referendum presented to the people in the terms that it was
When Enoch Powel expressed the same policies his Party was too decent to have anything to do with it
No longer the same party, it seems
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 10:30 AM

So Nigel, can you tell us unequivocally that the Conservative party is ALL agreed on a one way forward ......... or are there perhaps "gaping" differences in the numerous factions amongst their ranks.

Could you tell us if their leader (god help us) has a certain policy to put in place that will remin the same until after the process has finished.

And, please bear in mind that the Conservatives not Labour has brought about the present situation all on their own and that they are charged with dealing with it.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 10:50 AM

I see The Praying Mantis, in her 'Order of The Boot Acceptance Speech' has suggested that Jeremy Corbyn should follow her example and resign. One small point of order - She may have been allowed to 'resign' but she was effectively kicked out of office.

They're terrified - scared absolutely shitless - of him, aren't they?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 11:07 AM

Oh yes, the clown in charge of the circus, thats going to work out well isn't it!!

Custard pie anyone ?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 11:08 AM

Have bookies started taking bets on the duration of Boris as PM...???

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 01:25 PM

If it looks like there will be no-deal then they [the Labour Party] have no policy?

No, there is a policy that there should be a referendum in the case of no-deal.

Or was that response nothing more than a criticism that Steve hadn't listed all the possibilities? Why should he? Those truly interested in the policy can find it.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM

The trouble with tories is they are so convinced it's the natural order of existence
that they should forever dominate everything...

Hence the likes of Nigel presuming he can dictate the terms of engagement in this thead...
Demanding we respond in ways that confirm his agenda...

We don't dance to your tune - we have our own much better, more imaginative
and creative composers and players...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Jul 19 - 09:04 AM

Hence the likes of Nigel presuming he can dictate the terms of engagement in this thead...
Demanding we respond in ways that confirm his agenda...

I don't 'demand'. I merely ask that those who post are consistent in writing what they mean (preferably in language which makes their meaning clear), rather than something which they later repudiate.
It would also be nice (but again not a requirement) if those who post 'known facts' show where that 'knowledge' comes from, in order to differentiate it from opinion, and to enable 'fact checking'.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 19 - 09:57 AM

"preferably in language which makes their meaning clear"
As you are your two friends seldom respond to what others have posted, it's a little difficult to know what is clear and what isn't
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jul 19 - 10:34 AM

Nigel - it's probably too late in your life,
but you could try to understand the concepts of imagination, irony,
and figurative speaking...
That intelligent highly educated folks can and do engage in loose informal sloppy banter in forum chats..

Not every word in an internet forum must be held to account as though
it is a fact or figure from a PhD thesis, or a Government Report...

If that's what you expect here to meet your pedantic standards,
then you are in the wrong place...!!!

.. and I have always been consistent..
consistent in refraining from absolutist dogma.
I am a skeptic through and through.
When I do make outlandish statements of opinion as fact.
It is intended sascasm / satire..

Taking the piss out of habitually dogmatic zealots,
by aping their favoured form of opinionated biased communication......

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 19 - 11:03 AM

Far too sensible, PFR. You need to get back to your usual bollocks :-D

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 03:13 AM

A LABOUR MP has admitted in an astonishing act of candour that it is “too late” for the Labour Party to win the next general election because of its “wishy-washy” and “ill-defined” Brexit policy.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158508/labour-party-news-brexit-latest-jeremy-corbyn-boris-johnson-election-lbc-owen-smith-vi
Labour backbencher Owen Smith, who is a fierce critic of leader Jeremy Corbyn, told LBC radio the party has already “blown it” if there is an Autumn general election. He explained to host Shelagh Fogarty: “To be honest, Shelagh, if there was an election in the Autumn as you were describing, it’s too late. We’ve already blown it because we prevaricated for so long now that we’ve even got to the stage that I’m not sure people care what our Brexit position is.
“They’re so used to it being wishy-washy and ill-defined and it seems to be getting more so.
“I’m a backbench Labour MP and I don’t know what our position is going to be in our manifesto.
“I think it’s going to be, from what I understand, that if the Tories are in power we’re in favour of a second referendum and Remain.

Lots of finking but sadly no hard facts. "quelle surprise"

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 03:39 AM

Owen Smith is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else, but it is worth remembering he stood in the Labour leadership elections against Corbyn; he had a substantially different view of where Labour should be going, which again he is entitled to, but he lost.

So he has been consistent in his opposition to Corbyn's plans, before, during and after the leadership election.

His view need to be understood in this context.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 04:04 AM

And again it's worth remembering that in a Party still recovering to a nasty dose of wat was nearly terminal New labourism, grabbing odd comments from a tiny handful of Parliamentarians is totally meaningless grabbing at straws from people who have nothing else to offer other than criminal bloggers
Corby still has the overwhelming support of the Labour memebers - even on the mythisac; antisemitism issue
Even the Tory set up YouGov has reported that fact
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 04:10 AM

Even a backnencher should be able to conjure up a document outlining the party's stance on Brexit. That he cannot speaks volumes!
It can be demonstrated with no effort at all that compo Corbyn changes his brexit position more often than his socks. Today is Monday. How many convolutions of his policy may we expect by Friday?
How can his hapless acolytes be expected to keep up?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 05:06 AM

"Corbyn changes his brexit position more often than his socks. "
Corbyn listens to what people say and takes it into consideration when forming policies - unlike the Tories who can't even agree on crucial votes in parliament
Remind us of how many prominent Tories Johnson has ditched or driven away
Just the way to get a balanced representative party - I don't ***** think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 05:58 AM

BrexShit is the Tories’ project, brought into being by a flawed, badly structured Referendum, called by an out-of-touch Old Etonian Tory PM who was soiling his boxers at the possibility of UKIP stealing votes from Tory supporters.

The next Tory PM - The Praying Mantis - refused steadfastly to allow anyone from any other party to be involved in the Tories’ Brexit Project, until it became clear that her plans had gone completely tits-up and she was on the verge of losing her job.

She then paid lip-service to the other parties by pretending to hold ‘discussions’ with them, which were nothing more than her telling them what she wanted, and refusing to take any notice whatsoever of anything they had to say.

BrexShit is the Tories’ project. It’s got Sweet Fuck All to do with Labour.

Everybody seems to understand that, except our Right-Wing-Extremist Tommy Robinson-Fan-Boy Thicktard.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 06:36 AM

Nice description of Johnson's cabinet in this morning's Irish Times
"The third-rate, the lightweight and the schoolmate"
The Irish always did have a way with words

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 07:13 AM

I assume you disagree with me then? Never mind! Let us see how Radnor turns out, though I must admit selecting the deselected MP as your candidate is a cunning plan more suitable for compo than the clever Eton boys. Perhaps Baldrick is involved!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 07:25 AM

Perhaps all this is easier to understand if some people get their minds around the fact that some socialists understand the EU as palliative care for a dying system, others just mistrust an organisation made up of Capitalist States working together (I tend to go for the former at present)
No genuine Socialist would dream of taking the 'Spic, 'Frog' and 'Kraut' approach that Farage and his soundalikes in the Tory Party have adopted - Socialism doesn't work like that - that's the domain of those at the other side of the Ballot Box (and humanity)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 01:45 PM

These are the same socialists that select candidates such as Ali Milani to stand as MP in Bojo's constituency.

https://thetab.com/uk/2017/04/10/nus-candidate-offensive-antisemitic-tweets-jews-stingy-36914


https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/revealed-ali-milani-labour-candidate-for-boris-johnson-s-seat-in-2015-press-tv-appearance-1.4

This sends a rather strong message to the antisemitic enquiry teama, the equivalwnt of two fingers in fact.
and you still claim Labour does not have a problem

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 02:01 PM

Iains - Yawnnnnnzzzz...

Long ago tweets by a stupid teenager,
who's had time to become better educated and more mature in his opinions...

Apart from that, I think young student politicians tend to be ideological pillocks,
too inexperienced in the real outside world to be taken too seriously...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 02:20 PM

"This sends a rather strong message to the antisemitic enquiry teama,"
Your Prime Minister is an open racist who talks about musilm women "looking like letterboxes" or "like bank robbers", "piccaninnies", "watermelon smiles" -ad a dozen other insults...
The Tory party is still riddle with anti semites, and has totally failed to respond to accusations of Islamophobie ansd is refuses to condemn openly racist statements by the US President - and you come up with one obscure pary member
What kind odf messsage to that convey - not just about the Tory Party but about Britain
You have waded the slike of the web - you continue to make racist statements about other nations - and wou have come up with precisely nothing
Whoever pays you too post here should really demand his money back
You really aren't very good at this
Take your racist filth elsewhere - you are polluting a good forum with your "bogtrotter" and your "Irish teapots" and your support for the misunderstood Tommy Robinsons of this world
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 03:57 AM

Cannot understand what is waycist about pointing out the obvious. Labour has a problem with antisemitism: It has made headlines for years. It is undeniable.
Your silly games of denial, whataboutism and then hurling insults do not make the issue go away.
The Irish Times has the following to say:
The party has not disclosed how many complaints are pending against members but the Sunday Times reported recently that it was more than 800. Some surround the language used to criticise Israel, including assertions that the state of Israel has no right to exist.
But others involve the sharing of images and memes on social media which feature anti-Jewish tropes that long predate Israel’s founding in 1948. They include the characterisation of Jews as parasitic international financiers and conspiracy theories alleging Jewish manipulation of global politics and media.

The focus of most recent criticism of the Labour leadership is on its handling of complaints, and claims that some of those around Corbyn have sought to interfere with the complaints process to protect left-wing allies.

Looks a pretty damming condemnation to me. Perhaps you need to go to specsavers?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 04:54 AM

"Labour has a problem with antisemitism: 2
Mudcat has a problem with antisemitism
Accuseing those who criticise Irrael of being antisemitic by definition (It is antisemitic to identify the Jewish people as a whole with the actions of Israel - Labour is guilty only of criticising Israel and these lying accusations only emerged after Corbyn made his statement on Palestine
The make what ids happening in Palestine "Jewish" is top paint a target on every Jew on the planet - it doesn't come more antisemitic than that
You want to show a problem of antisemitism, produce your attacks on the Jewish People - so far you have dredged up on slp of the tongue by one student nearly a decade ago - that's how valid your accusations are

It is of little surprise that this poster, who also has a thing for "bogtrotters" is also a raving homophobe
The mask seems to be off completely now
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 04:58 AM

Jim, how many times have people asked you to ignore him? How many times have you said it yourself?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 05:22 AM

"Jim, how many times have people asked you to ignore him?"
He is now dominating this forum with his racist and homophobic filth
Time he was kicked off - Mudcat does not need an ultra propagandist who continues to attack other members racially and now on the basis of their gender inclinations
Several members of Mudcat have declared themselves to be homosexual
WE really don't need shit like this fouling up discussions (even if he only lets the mask slip after the pub closes)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 05:22 AM

It has come to a pretty pass when the former Labour spinmeister tells compo he will not continue with his appeal against expulsion from Labour because, as a political force, he thinks they are finished


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alastair-campbell-corbyn-labour-brexit-tony-blair-lib-dems-eu-election-a9026311.h

For as long as compo remains, Bojo can say in all honesty:

Everyday in every way I’m getting better and better.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 05:37 AM

Yes Jim. Trouble is, by responding, you are encouraging him. If you want to get the "racist and homophobic filth" cleaned up you need to leave it to the moderation team. Contact Joe Offer, Jeri or Stilly River Sage with your concerns. By trying to clean it up yourself your are just smearing it.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 05:37 AM

"The party has not disclosed how many complaints are pending against members but the Sunday Times reported recently that it was more than 800. Some surround the language used to criticise Israel, including assertions that the state of Israel has no right to exist.
But others involve the sharing of images and memes on social media which feature anti-Jewish tropes that long predate Israel’s founding in 1948. They include the characterisation of Jews as parasitic international financiers and conspiracy theories alleging Jewish manipulation of global politics and media."

So the Sunday Times sez that, eh, and we take the weaselly unsupported comments as facts? If I ever heard a bona fide Labour Party member saying that Israel has no right to exist I'd be out of there like a shot. The quoted piece, innocent of detail or corroboration of course, is nothing more than a part of the concerted attempt to undermine the current party leadership. And whataboutery in this case is not about exonerating wrongdoing: it's about exposing the sheer hypocrisy of some of Corbyn's enemies who have far worse personal defects, such as openly racist, homophobic and misogynistic instincts. Let's take your party leader as a prime example, eh?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 06:09 AM

"Yes Jim. Trouble is, by responding, you are encouraging him. "
Not responding to him would allow him continue to use this forum for his megaphone extremism
As far as I'm concerned, now he has been dragged from the privacy of his bunker, the war is over - as far as I'm concerned, it's enough to have exposed what he is publicly in the hope nobody will now take hime seriously
Done and dusted.

Labou's so-called Antisemitism is just that and will continue to be so until it is proven without doubt.
The Labour Party was partially set up by Jewish refugees fleeing persecution
The left led the fight against Mosely and have always opposed bigotry and racism, while the right have overwhelmingly taken a racist stance - Brexit being a typical example
Now the right are using the Jewish people as a political weapon - a refined form of antisemitism
THIS IS WORTH READING IN FULL-AND NOT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT
Jim Carroll