Labour - the party of Remain

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 12:37 PM

101... or 100... or 99.. etc.. if this thread gets any more deIainsified...

well it now smells a lot fresher in here...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 12:45 PM

DtG - I was saying before the purge, that song is now nearly 10 years old...

wow.. time fly's eh...???

It only seems like yesterday I was a mere fresh faced young 50 year old, optimistically looking forward to 2010,
and a new decade of fun and frolics...

Never mind... 2020 soon..

We can have another fresh start at looking forward to the future...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:23 PM

Blimey. Doesn't time fly when you're enjoying yourself :-)

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:31 PM

As I am not a supporter of Labour it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct by not addressing the accusations it faces, or managing some sort of coherence on it's Brexit policy. It is patently obvious that unity is not a goal that Labour aims for. It is a self evident fact that it will cost them votes. Denying these problems does not diminish them or make them go away.
As I do not support any political party I can take a dispassionate view. Labour to my mind is doing all in its power to aid its opposition. This is not a winning tactic!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:49 PM

Labour has to deal with both sides of its leadership and membership otherwise it will end up as fragmented and impotent as the Tory Part which is now on the point of self-destruct
Even the Tory leadership issue is threatened by a revolt which intends to bring down whoever is elected if they don't toe the line - whichever line that is
It little behooves a Tory supporter to advise Labour on its future in those circumstances
Are you serious !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 01:57 PM

"...it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct..."

Who are you kidding? "Of no interest"? You're completely obsessed!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:11 PM

"You're completely obsessed!"
His hatred of Labour (and anything to the left of Attila the Hun challenges that of obsessive Rupert Murdoch
im Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:18 PM

'i do not support a political party's

Perhaps because there is not one quite right wing enough?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jul 19 - 03:39 PM

...it is of no interest to me if the party wants to continue to self destruct..."

...he gasped, as he approached orgasm....

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 11:27 AM

...he gasped, as he approached orgasm....

What a sad fellow, but you doappear tobe slowly losing your anal fixation. Presumably the new medication is working.

An interesting snippet:
"Labour and Lib Dem parties will only be able to enact their policy of slapping VAT on independent schools if the UK leaves the EU. Article 132 of EU Directive 2006/112/EC compels member states to exempt a number of areas from Value Added Tax being levied on them, including “the provision of children’s or young people’s education, school or university education”. Controlling your own tax policy or being a member of the EU, you can’t have both…" What a shower!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 04:19 AM

A surprising add in the Guardian today, without precedent I would think! Talk about washing dirty laundry in public!

More than sixty Labour peers have taken out an advertisement accusing Jeremy Corbyn of having “failed the test of leadership” over his handling of antisemitism complaints within the party.

The peers, including more than a dozen former ministers such as Peter Hain, Beverley Hughes and John Reid, have addressed the advert in the Guardian to Corbyn directly, saying: “The Labour party welcomes everyone* irrespective of race, creed, age, gender identity, or sexual orientation. (*except, it seems, Jews). This is your legacy, Mr Corbyn.”

Representing about a third of Labour’s members in the House of Lords, the signatories told Corbyn the party was “no longer a safe place for all members” and claimed that thousands have resigned their membership “because of the toxic culture you have allowed to divide our movement”.

The advert has been taken out amid a backlash within the party about the leadership’s response to a BBC Panorama documentary that aired last week, in which eight former staff members accused the Labour of failing to tackle complaints about antisemitism properly and allowing Corbyn’s office to get involved in disputes.

Wkth divisions on this and brexit, Labour is a spent force!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 04:49 AM

No attacks on Jews - no antiemitism
Never gets more difficult than that

"Labour is a spent force!"
In your dreams
Corbyn has more support from the rank and file membership than any other political leader
Your party can't even drum up support among its own MPs without giving a Party with terrorist connections a £1 billion bung
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:31 AM

support-for-jeremy-corbyn-labour-plummets-to-lowest-level-in-polling-history-2019-7

https://www.businessinsider.com/support-for-jeremy-corbyn-labour-plummets-to-lowest-level-in-polling-history-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:44 AM

An interesting view on what’s actually going on here...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 05:52 AM

Pointing to the problems of one party in the face of what's happened to Parliamentary politics is simply propagandizing nonsense
The Tories have no support within or without Westminster and they are now poised between appointing one of to clowns as Prime Minister
The governing party has now lost two Prime Ministers because of Brexit and the next one is facing threats of a vote of no confidence if he doesn't pleasee all sides in a seriously divided Perty
The campaign to dislodge Corbyn on a trumped up antisemitism charge has fallen flat as it was bound to as, rather being about the Jewish people, is in fact an attempt of the Labour Parliamentary right to rid itself of Socialist policies - the death throes of Blair's New Labour
THIS IS WHAT THE DISPUTE IN THE LABOUR PARTY IS ABOUT

Gavin Shuker is a right winger who opposes Socialist Policies, opposed gay marriage and equality for homosexuals and supports religious fundamentalism in his Bristol constituency
He represents New Lanbour's good old days of Right wing Labour and career politics
Jim Caarrol

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 07:21 AM

Do you think the Guardian lost it's moral scruples and has sold out to Mammon by taking a full page ad on Labour antisemitism?

Or could it be the Guardian finds the allegations undeniable?

Either choice unpalatable for some here.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:04 AM

Iains - Obviously you are very selective about what you ignore in our threads...

Wasn't it only a day or two ago I evaluated and dismissed the guardian as a paper
for smug middle class liberals...

Though to maximise sales, it also tries to appeal to the periphery of it's core liberal readership
aiming at a secondary target market of tory wets and blairites..

So.... THE GUARDIAN IS NOT A LABOUR PAPER...

repeat until this is lodged in your narrow mind...

If the guardian does ever publish an actively pro Corbyn opinion piece
it is only to attract further additional occasionl sales to lefties who can afford to buy it...

Therefore, I couldn't give a shit about what the guardian prints about Corbyn as leader of the labour party...
The editorial bias of the guardian does not particularly like Corbyn..

The only significant positive thing to say about the guardian, is at least it's not a completely blatant hard right propaganda bumrag
like the obvious usual suspects...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:08 AM

Unlike the sewer press, The Guardian opens its columns to all views and certainly does not censor its adverts politically
It carries regular articles by right wing Labour supporters,
Unike the accusation by Muslims against the tories, The Labour Party has acted on the accusations publicly - nothing to hide so far
Now anti Jewish attacks, no Antisemitism (though it is antisemitic to suggest that accusing critics of Israel is anti-semitic, as you have done

Wonder if your friend, Donald the Don's Party will treat the findings of te House of Representitives findings that Donald the Degenerate has made racist statements against black congresswomen as seriously
Waddya think !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:10 AM

Iains - Btw.. try to smarm your way out of it, but BWM summed you up good and proper..

errrmmm.. this is not an image I want for long in my head,
but you very well could be sat there typing one handed
as you fantasise about the labour party on it's hands and knees bare-arsed,
whilst you, clad head to toe in rubber and PVC, administer it a jolly good caning...

.. typical public school & tory S&M wet dreams...


PS.. Predictable complaints and backlash*
[* pun unintended, but an understandable subconcious association of ideas and words...]

about Labour's hope of making school education a fairer playing field..

Now imagine the outcry from old etonian tories if Corbyn were to propose a higher rate of tax
on birch canes, studded leather paddles, and dominatrix & gimp outfits...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:14 AM

From the Guardian:

The Guardian’s election editorial has come out in strong support of Labour. The editorial welcomes the enthusiasm of Jeremy Corbyn on the campaign trail so far, contrasting the Labour leader’s energy with the lacklustre performance of Theresa May.

Now you was sayin like?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:18 AM

Iains - don't always believe what you read in the papers...

It's not like we've never encountered two faced liberals
trying to sit on the fence keeping their selfish options open...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:20 AM

.. but at least liberals and labour would both prefer to see the tories out of govt...

Unless a tory govt buys them off with a nominal share of power...

..just saying like...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 11:50 AM

I do just love the way you check your facts before posting and your sheer arrogance.

I am a leftie therefore what I think is correct.
Any link that contradicts my leftie position I will have deleted.
Those that have the temerity to argue the leftist position will be bullied into submission, extensively insulted and/or banned.

and yet you wonder why below the line is toxic!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 12:15 PM

Iains - do what...!!!???

In over a decade and a half of mudcat membership I have made it very clear
I am firmly opposed to censorship and deletions...

I am also an objective rational kind of chap
who believes skepticsm and doubt gets closer to understanding the nature of 'facts'
than any amount of dogmatic absolute certainty..

So, I will now state as personal opinion rather than fact,
that you are squirming and deflecting with your usual old bollocks again..
Though I don't hide that I honestly think mine is a well considered and educated opinion...

Also, I don't need to wonder why it's toxic down here.
It's obvious why.. you are proof enough...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 12:44 PM

The advert was paid for. It was not news or editorial. It did not say Corbyn was antisemitic. Just that he was failing in his leadership, which is entirely a matter of opinion. The fact that it was written and paid for by a group of parliamentary peers who could afford a full page advert in a national paper speaks volumes about their motives. Just consider who will benefit and who will lose most in a Corbyn led Labour administration. I am pretty sure that rich career politicians are worried. Hence the barely concealed hatchet job.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM

Just remind me, is this thread about Labour the party of remain or not?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 02:39 PM

"I am a leftie therefore what I think is correct."
As distinct from your total contempt for anything left you mean
Whence the difference ?
"Any link that contradicts my leftie position I will have deleted."
As you do constantly, you mean ?
"and yet you wonder why below the line is toxic!"
Said the feller who has personally abused everybody who disagrees with him from the day he joined the forum
Bit late to make accusations like that I would have thought
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jul 19 - 03:15 PM

Hang about! Some of you good people are doing the mods a great disservice. By reacting in the same manner as the troll you are allowing him to continue in the same on obnoxious way. If YOU stop posting like that it will undermine his entire presence.

It's not that difficult to comprehend.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:07 AM

Next week an emergency meeting of Labour peers will be held in response to Baroness Hayter's dismissal as a shadow Brexit minister, after she reportedly compared the approach of Mr Corbyn's staff to that of "the bunker" in Downfall, a 2004 film depicting Adolf Hitler's final days.

They will consider a motion calling for a no confidence vote in Mr Corbyn.

If passed, a ballot would then be held of all Labour peers.

I think I prefer to keep Compo Corbyn as the cabbage patch king a while longer yet. He admirably plays the role of useful idiot.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:12 AM

Iain's - Funny how you suddenly turn up
within minutes of not so favourable posts regarding your obsessions being deleted...???

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 11:35 AM

btw.. is it just me who finds titles such as 'Baroness' anathema for a Labour party...???

I'd dread to think such self important pretensions go to their heads...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 02:01 PM

Iain's - Funny how you suddenly turn up
within minutes of not so favourable posts regarding your obsessions being deleted...???

Another one for the mods to deal with please. I could make a detailed response but prefer not to.

The cabal's sexual and anal obsessions are best left alone.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 02:43 PM

Big bully kid writing complaints to teacher when his victims fight back...

Did you take the coloured crayons off a smaller kid...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 04:48 PM

Comment in green is unfunny, inappropriate and uncalled for, as well as anonymous. And giving succour to a troll.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 05:57 PM

aha.. I've just twigged...

green = mod...

The green words fit in so well in context,
it read as if Iains was still burbling away on his own trajectory to nowhere relevant.....


"cabal" - a secret political clique or faction.

So secret in fact, I don't even know if I'm a member of it...!!!???

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jul 19 - 06:22 PM

You're not. None of us are. Someone is negatively and seriously obsessed. But anonymity is a useful defence against the naming of names. As if I don't know.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 02:08 AM

"The cabal's sexual and anal obsessions are best left alone."
Fat safer to plouter through the "Bogs" eh ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 03:59 AM

I'm not a mod!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 04:52 AM

Thank God!

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 04:58 AM

For once, Ians, :-D

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 10:17 AM

"The cabal's sexual and anal obsessions are best left alone."

or the now deleted and paraphrased from memory..

" we mustn't put up with their filth.."

What I find amusing/uncomfortable/disconcerting/odd/unacceptable/etc
is that in a folk music forum celebrating the earthy music of the common working folks;
that such middle class prissy prim and proper pruderery should raise it's ugly head...

Whether it be from members or mods, it is out of place and unwanted.
This dreadful urge to impose self-rightious puritanical personal moralising on the mudcat community.
It goes way back to the supercillious paternalistic upper class Victorian christian interference and bowlderising
of the rambunctious and cheerfully vulgar songs of the greater common people...

Please remember, mudcat is a folk music forum in 2019,
not a Salvation Army hut in 1919..

Now to come back up to date right now and relate this to our concerns with the Labour Party.
Similar puritanical urges from various diverse zealots within the party to control and chastise members,
and all other ordinaray folks outside in wider society,
are ripping the party apart..
It has been taken over by middle class academics and careerist student politicians,
too obsessed with book learnt ideologies...
Forcing working class folks to abandon their own traditional party which they can no longer identify with.
Pushing them out into the direction of more relatable down to earth alternatives like Tommy Robinson and his thuggish kind...

Moralising puritanical control freaks are the bane of ordinary folks...
The modern left's obsession with strict unforgiving 'PC' is self defeating,
and effectively making the far right look a much more appealing prospect
for ex Labour voters fed up with how the party has been hijacked by uptight ideological puritans...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 10:48 AM

Cont... [well I thought I'd posted the finished version I'd just proofread...????]...



The far right are exploiting and capitalising on Labour's internal rifts and media exagerated strife.

But they are also providing a more welcoming home
for woking class folks who are being abandoned and excluded by the modern increasingly middle class [oxbridge] Labour party..

Corbyn's successor needs to be one of 'us',
not yet another one of 'them'..
Labour needs a younger leader who has worked up from ordinary roots via the world of work and self education / adult education..
not exclusively student union politics...
A new leader with less baggage of the past for the right wing media to exploit,
and portray as another terrorist loving 'marxist bogeyman/woman'...

This does not rquire the sheding of core Labour principles.
But presentaion and image of a new leader matters in this dumbed down age of the cult of personality...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 01:11 PM

Away from the fancy theorising, the Washington Post had this to say a few months ago:
"While a no-deal Brexit is a clear worry given the potential for economic carnage, the prospects of a hard-left Labour government under Corbyn is arguably even more troubling for financial markets."
    This is the same Corbyn that Bloomberg quotes thus:
"... agrees with finance spokesman, John McDonnell: The main opposition party should prepare for a run on the pound and capital flight from Britain should it take power.“
      Yet the left is obsessed with Brexit. Perhaps a future under Corbyn is simply so awful they refuse to countenance it?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 01:32 PM

I wouldn't trust American perspectives,
or self-centred motivations behind their analysis of our domestic politics...

Likewise as much, they couldn't give a monkeys what we think of theirs...

However, in reality, I do see our far right taking their inspiration and ideas
from contentious American alt right polemicists...

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 02:26 AM

"I wouldn't trust American perspectives, "
Typicaly unopenable unless you pay for the privilege of doing so (maybe that's because of my Ad-blocker)
McDonnell is a staunch supporteer of staying in Europe and also a staunch left winger, so while Iains is happy to use a vague reference to how people view the left, he totally ignores tha fact that he is one of those he pours contempt on each time he posts

It seems somewhat mindless to scour the web looking for out-of-context quotes from people who are consistently arguing the opposite to whay you are - as Iains has now reduced his level of posts to - simple, manipulated propaganda
It seems equally mindless to respond to that propaganda
Iains is stonewalling away from the damage that is bing done on a daily basis by Brexit and those who respond to him are allowing him to

It is noticeable that even his running-mates have done a runner - this has become an extremely boring dialogue, not dissimilar to bouncing a ball against a wall - as far from intelligent debate as you can get
Bo-ring..... (as the youth are fond of saying
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 03:36 AM

I wouldn't trust American perspectives,
Try the original UK ones then

Money is already draining from Britain but because of Corbyn, not ...
https://www.spectator.co.uk › Features Dec 1, 2018

A Labour government is unambiguously bad for markets': Experts ...
https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/...week/.../fund-buyers-corbyn-next-election-labou...Jan 3, 2018

The economic consequences of Jeremy Corbyn | Financial Times
https://www.ft.com/content/0e956c1e-a8e5-11e7-93c5-648314d2c72c
Oct 5, 2017

How might Jeremy Corbyn and a Labour government affect ...
https://www.marketviews.com/.../how-might-jeremy-corbyn-and-a-labour-government...Jan 9, 2018

I can understand your reluctance to accept the above unanimous conclusions PM Corbyn would be a tragedy and a disaster of epic proportions. SCARY!
The more "challenged may see it all as propaganda but I suspect that respected publications such as the Financial Times have a wee bit more nous about such things than contributors here.
Labour of course is but a byword for fiscal irresponsibility.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 03:54 AM

Funny how when the media say anything negative about Corbyn it must be true yet when they say anything negative about brexit it is just project fear. How come the dire consequences that everyone predicts about leaving the EU are dismissed as just predictions but a few pundits predicting the end of the world as we know it if Labour get to power are believed and repeated?

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 04:16 AM

Money is already draining from Britain but because of Corbyn, not ...https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-damaged-city-of-london-2018-11?r=US&IR=T

A Labour government is unambiguously bad for markets': Experts ...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/no-deal-brexit-crisis-banks-economic-social-uk-finance-theresa-may-eu-a8727901.html

Brexit has turned Britain's business community into refugees fleeing a dying economy - even the Brexit financeers have run for safety
It has undermined the political system, jettisoned twp prime minister and put a rcist clown in Downing Street
Corbyn will have to work ***** hard to match that

How stupid is this mindless flow of propaganda going to get ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 04:31 AM

Corbyn is a mainstream European social democrat, funny how Iains resorts to Trump type language to make his slurs. Corbyn would not be my first choice Labour Prime Minister (at the moment Keir Starmer would) but every Labour MP, with the possible of Kate Hoey, would make a better Prime Minister than the two candidates for leadership of the Tory party.

Subject: RE: Labour - the party of Remain
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jul 19 - 04:40 AM

Propagandists and their propaganda are very, very simple to deal with - ignore them! Propaganda has got us into the disastrous, self-harming debacle of BrexShit - if dopey, feeble-minded people had ignored the propagandists, we wouldn’t be in this ridiculous mess, we wouldn’t be getting the Blond Buffoon for PM, and the rest of the world wouldn’t be pissing their pants laughing at us.

How many times does it need to be said - don’t feed the troll!