BS: climate crisis - how do we go from here?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 02:40 PM

i've always thought that we should have glastonbury festival monday off (Michael Eavis day) there are about 200,000 people who will be too wasted to work anyway. glastonbury has always supported good causes - CND, water aid, enjoy yourself, greenpeace etc. so it would easily become climate awareness day/week or whatever.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 01:15 PM

Corporate sponsorship that would include the most vulnerable corporations to climate change like corporate farms would be good.
What other corporations are most vulnerable?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 12:59 PM

The competiveness and whimsy of Hallowen has probabl reached its peak. Combining Halloween with climate change along with a foundation of a death theme could be called something, but what? And how would it be competivtive?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 12:18 PM

I think you're on to something there, Donuel. Maybe we could roll up some of those manufacturerd holidays and maximize Earth Day. At the very least it could raise awareness and educate people.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 19 - 11:01 AM

We need a national holiday that people could spend money on the cause. A holiday like Halloween converted to the threat of desth to our planet.

I heard we spend billions on Halloween. Is that true?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 02:58 PM

Baltimore law suit against oil and gas causung known climate change goes to the Supream Court

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 11:42 AM

I don't believe you are a diabolical troll for one minute. Just that you are mistaken that small acts are laughable or sad. And thanks for the explanation. I also know the difference between opportunities and obstacles. I also know, corny as it sounds, that obstacles present opportunities to surmount them. Anything is possible.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:44 AM

this is what I blindly wrote:
.
I know the difference between Opportunities and obatacles.
I thought it was helpful for all of us to know both.

Should we ignore obstacles or are they too obvious to mention?
I think they are both impoetant. If I am the enemy to the cause it is news to me.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:36 AM

I will have my doubts and you will have your opinion that I am a diabolical troll. For people on the same side, its hard to find allies these days.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:32 AM

I have no idea what your last post meant. Sorry :-(

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:30 AM

Not only will Steve deny it Donuel but I will too. Nowhere has anyone posted that reusable bags will combat climate change as a standalone measure. They are part of that mindset change that we need and to dismiss them as laughable or sad is damaging.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:28 AM

I know the difference between Opportunituld we ignore bstaclesies and obstacles.
I thought it was helpful for all of us to know both.
Should we ignore obstacles or are they too obvious to mention?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:23 AM

Where we need to go is furthering our mindset about global warming

And how does mocking those that are starting to change their mindset, even in small ways, help? You may have transcended the mundane but many of us have not. Let us catch up and don't tell us we are laughable or sad for trying to help!

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:21 AM

Dave about bags, Steve said it. He will deny it but so what.
I have seen the vast improvement of our streams with the cut back on plastic bags. I have also seen the impact of extinctions.
Truths are painful when brutally honest. There will be more success to come but there wil be more pain.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:13 AM

It's baby steps, Don. Big things like the Paris Climate Accord have to be back on the table as soon as this administration is truncated. People doing things consciously at least shows awareness. Just like declining straws won't make a difference, at least there is a fad-like inkling of the problem as it exists.

https://storyofstuff.org/

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:12 AM

Realism is not trollery. :^\
Where we need to go is furthering our mindset about global warming and advance making our planet into a paradise that could be and not as it is today. Keep your eyes on the prize despite our darkest doubts.

The one thing I liked about ST TNG is the depiction of our positive change in our social psyche and abandonment of greed.

As aware as we have become of the problem, we have not yet begun to fight. We must know what we are fighting for and what we are fighting against gillymor

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 09:07 AM

Donuel. An individual using a multi-use bag will not combat climate change. No-one has said that they will. Whole nations stopping the use of throwaway plastic bags will not only help the climate, it will help the environment. Remember that the longest journey starts with a single step. Many have already made that commitment. Why do you chose to mock them instead of doing something positive?

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 08:58 AM

What's sad is your descenion into trollery.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 08:34 AM

Imagine a person actually thinking thay are combating global warming by using a multi use grocery bag. Its laughable if not sad.

To actually make a dent in the exponential change in climate would require government and individual spending on infrastructure that ( I estimate) is many times an individual or corporate annual income. Who do you know that would make that sacrifice? Even if successful things will get worse before it gets better in the midst of all the sacrifice.

While we are clever, Humans may value comfort over the cost of changing our ways. I doubt we will choose cost over comfort.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 11:44 AM

We all can do something. Today's load of laundry hung on the clothes line to dry is a small act, but it's a little less electricity being drawn from my house. One of these days I'd like to put solar panels on the roof, but I'm not there yet (I need to address the foundation issues before I do anything else big.)

Trolling isn't an eco-friendly act and it doesn't win friends or influence people, it simply brings the conversation back to focus on the troll, his object from the very beginning. Several perfectly acceptable posts have otherwise disappeared because they included a throw-away line with name calling or the challenging of moderation. It is possible to post entirely opposite points of view if they are on topic and presented to contribute ideas to the conversation.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 19 - 11:34 AM

I wonder at times if the human race is worth saving. When the press lauds eco vandals like Trump as heroes yet pillories someone like Greta, who is trying to save the earth, then something is seriously wrong. When people then start to believe it, my faith that humans are basically good is shattered.

Of course I will continue doing my best for my children, grandchildren and the rest of mankind's future but please excuse me if I seem to begrudge trying at times :-(

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 01:39 PM

As I said earlier, recycle should be the third option. After reduce and re-use. Recycling is good and far preferable to wasting resources but reducing consumption should be the priority and reusing items removes the need to use energy recycling.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 01:10 PM

That is called a "Gap Year." Understood on both sides of the pond.

Someone remarked about chip bags and such on a post about recycling water bottles, and there is a point - those mylar bags are a problem. The point of recycling the bottles is because at least the plastic can be reused. Another thing that became apparent, though wasn't mentioned in an essay I read today, is that most of these movements to recycle, to buy in bulk with your own containers, to not put everything in the landfill, is largely managed by and aimed at urban populations.

I lived out in the county for a few years when I was at the university, driving in 30 miles for classes. And when I had enough bags of separated glass and plastic on the porch I'd load them in the back of the pickup and drop them off at the campus recycle center. I was probably the only person on that end of the lake doing anything about recycling. They probably still don't recycle out there. They haul their own trash to the dump and everything goes in it. We really do need to look at some of these services the way the Rural Electrification program worked years ago - if you don't include everyone in the benefits of this society, those who are on the outside will lobby for it's destruction.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 12:45 PM

Yup. I have a bag bag full of bags for life and always containing a couple of super strong wine carriers (in case of unexpectedly-spotted 25%-off-six jobs). It lives in me car but there are always one or two slung over a chair in the kitchen.

Apologies for my reaction to that post. Greta Thunberg is brave and committed and I understand that her caring adults are solicitous for her wellbeing. She is breaking the law by not attending school 'tis true but, as far as I can make out, she is not actually in active conflict with the law. She is keeping up with her schoolwork and will return to school after a year out. Yes we can't all do that but, just for once, I think we can allow her to be the amazing exception that she is. Her teachers support her activism but say The Right Thing about her missing school, as they would. She doesn't alway say things the way I'd put them but in my view she's putting an awful lot of influential yet procrastinating adults to shame. The ones who troll her with ad hominems, the Piers Morgans of this world, merely diminish themselves.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 11:29 AM

You can buy canvas bags, nylon bags, ripstop (parachute) nylon that are reinforced, or a non-woven polyester-type bag just about anywhere around here these days. Grocery stores, bookstores, feed stores, clothing stores - they're branded so you pay a little bit then advertise a lot. The back seat of my car is full of them so when I head into a store I step to the back seat and pull out as many as I think I'll need.

When the groceries are in the house and the bags unpacked they are hung over the doorknob on the side door so they are carried back to the car next trip out. Repeat. And occasionally, throw them in the washer.

Meanwhile, posts that are added simply to start fights are destined to be removed, as are the responses. That applies around the site in general, to no one's surprise. Play nice.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 11:22 AM

Bought a reusable string bag in Mossers yesterday. They are being trialed in 4 stores including Skipton. For £1 they are well worth it but Sainsbugs 30p ones sound a bargain!

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 19 - 10:53 AM

No more single-use plastic bags in the help-yourself fruit and veg in Sainsbury's. You can buy a reusable mesh bag instead for 30p. More of that will do me!

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 02:54 PM

You have your canary in the coal mine and then you have your frog in the water of global warming...until it boils.

plant more trees. wildfires need to eat too.
burn the amazon. McDonalds needs more burgers
buy the new 12,000 HP Expedition. it gets an ounce per meter

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 01:12 PM

It's far from rearranging the deck chairs. It's doing something positive. Little wonder that things are not changing as quickly as they should with that attitude. We have seen the iceberg and are doing our best to avoid it. Those who deny its existence are a dwindling minority. Those who know it's there and do nothing are part of the problem.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 10:21 AM

Yes there is room for hope when all the stops are pulled and solar power is employed to maximum effect, when wasted energy in reduced and random breaks go our way. Fear is an ultimate motivator, so be very afraid.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 09:22 AM

That seems to be Trump's view - heck with the future generations, this generation wants to keep making money, so remove all of the environmental regulations.

A future with lower carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will be different for everyone. Greta has made good points about the current generation in power not doing more, too busy arguing about if climate change exists (yes, it does) instead of how to address it now. At this rate, the next dominant species will pass through the remains of human settlements with solar panels on the roofs and and the lights still on but no one home.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: JHW
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 05:35 AM

We'll all be gone when it happens. Just keep re-arrangeing the deck chairs. What Iceberg?
Bit of a surprise that industrialisation was so short lived relative to the life of the Earth. Two hundred years of trains, a hundred years of cars and it's done for. Was nice while it lasted.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 19 - 02:49 AM

I don't think we can over emphasise the importance of changing everyone's mindset to help combat climate change. As SRS says there are many factors in play here. Maybe there are some we can do nothing about. Maybe, as Donuel says, something as yet unknown will play a part. Although I must point out that this could be bad or good! But none of this should stop us from changing what we can change for the better. Little steps are all it takes to get things rolling. Stop using plastic bags and switch off unused lights today. Get ready for bigger changes to come!

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 02:26 PM

We had similar regularly. Ohelia 2017,then Ali,Bronough, Leslie, Adrian, Diana, Gabriel,Helena, Isias, Freya, Laura. All with winds recorded in excess of 90mph. What makes this storm potentially nasty is saturated ground and trees still in leaf(this evening). In coastal areas prevailing winds bank up water but we are also just coming off the crest of a spring tide, so storm surge coupled with high tide can cause havoc, besides extreme waves posing a danger. Right now the extreme SW seems to be diminishing but sea areas Rockall and Bailey are still building to storm force 10 and 11. Could be a wild night in the offing up north.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 01:41 PM

"Reading contemporary accounts, the impression is that if Ireland did not have such magnificent cliffs forming a barrier along our west coast, the entire country would simply have been engulfed by water."

I posted this story on Facebook yesterday: https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Category-2-Lorenzo-Speeding-Towards-Wednesday-Blow-Azores-Islands

Wednesday, the Azores, Friday, Ireland.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 12:31 PM

We're braced for Hurricane Lorenzo at present
Nuffin' to do with climate change of course, we had similar only last 1839
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 11:34 AM

There are a lot of moving parts contributing to the climate crisis, and the resource extraction that goes into things like the Amazon grocery delivery bags is one we need to tackle sooner rather than later.

I was reading remarks on a thread elsewhere and one fellow complained that why bother with water bottles and straws when there are so many chip bags and drink cups and such that are plastic . . . I guess you take on the battles as you identify them. I don't buy single serving bags of chips, and it is possible to buy things like tortilla chips in wax-lined paper bags. There's a lot of plastic everywhere, but buying food in bulk is one answer (you can get reusable light mesh bags for grocery store use). It usually gets to the store in a larger package, often recyclable cardboard is involved.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 03 Oct 19 - 04:07 AM

As far as I can see the decay series of nickel48 to nickel80 do not produce hydrogen or carbon(Unfortunately )

If you care to reverse the process with hydrogen all sorts of things are possible but Humans would not want to be anywhere near

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 07:40 PM

Listen very carefully, no one is to stone anyone until I use the word 'nickel' to... wump bam bam boink wham

Its the Monty Python 50 year anniversary this week.


We are looking at an extinction event from the inside of an extinction event. We are about 1/3 of the way in to a near total extinction. If you are 50 or more you have seen it with your own eyes. If we are not part of the solution we are all part of the problem. Waitng for a Tech solution ignores the severe behavior changes that are required. For that reason alone I am skeptical
mankind has the will to change.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 07:28 PM

And, beardie, you seriously need to shut up about the mods. You come here, lazily spouting your bile/obscure shite (read post and delete as applicable), and they have to try to keep multiple threads on track and bellends like you under control. Show a little humility and a little dignity, why don't you.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 07:22 PM

And yet (sword of truth here we go), no organism known to humankind can convert nickel to methane. Not even Lord Percy in Blackadder II could have done it. Were I able to CONVERT metals into substances with entirely different elements and with no trace of the original metal, I'd be as rich as Croesus. And a miracle worker.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Iains
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 07:04 PM

Bejaysus I can read all right, and this is what I read:
"bacteria that converts nickel to methane..."
What the original scientific paper says is:
"The Siberian volcanoes could still be part of the story of the Permian Extinction Event, says Rothman. They were probably responsible for a sharp increase in nickel deposits that the authors found in ocean sediments from the time. In known methane-spewing microbes, the metal is a crucial component of enzymes involved in the reactions that produce the gas. The availability of nickel is in fact a limiting factor to these organisms' growth, so nickel from the volcanoes could have caused a runaway effect in Methanosarcina, says Rothman, and eventually death for other species."
Other papers suggest that increased temperatures diminished oxygen levels in the oceans and also increased metabolic rates of organisms leading to massive diebacks. Others suggest that whatever in the oceans was not killed by oxygen starvation were nobbled by green sulphur bacteria giving off hydrogen sulpide(0.1% in air will kill a human)
The explanation given for the Siberian Traps and associated vulcanicity is a mantle plume, which rose until it impacted against the bottom of the Earth's crust, producing volcanic eruptions through the Siberian Craton. It lasted less than 1 million years but left behind Earth's biggest "large igneous province," a pile of lava and other volcanic rocks about 720,000 cubic miles (3 million cubic kilometers) in volume.
The big unknown both then and today is the impact of feedback mechanisms.A few ideas below

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3357779/

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 05:59 PM

feel free.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mossback
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 05:48 PM

You're right, Bruce - I messed up.

But What I NEED to do (and should have done) is ignore you completely.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 05:23 PM

I'm very disappointed with you, Mr Red. Yes I've heard of catalysts and I know what they do, thanks. Now why don't you tell us about those bacteria instead of semantically skirting around just to defend poor old Donuel? Somewhere, in some application or even in some living organism, there may well be a nickel catalyst that can produce methane from something else that contains carbon and hydrogen atoms. I'm actually not interested enough to look into it. I'll take your word, as long as you've told me that you've checked it out. But nothing I know of in the realms of science can convert nickel to methane. I'd love to say End Of, but I have three twisters and turners busting their guts to find fault with that somewhat bald truth. Now either I quit the thread or I question my own sanity. I think I'll take the former path...

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 05:21 PM

Mr. Red, Bastard that he is, Rumsfeld did come to mind. No not you Mr. Red, you're not a bastard. And if you are you're a damn fine one :^/

caution this is a thinking man's link

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:47 PM

Dunno about him and his poetry, but the above is total bollix. Nickel is a metallic element with one kind of atom. Ni. Methane is a molecular gas made of nothing but carbon and hydrogen atoms. C and H.   Not exactly interchangeable, huh, even by very very very clever bacteria.

Ever heard of a catalyst? I am not specifically aware that nickel (in context) is, but yes bacteria are clever in that they evolve a lot faster than us. Ask a scientist before discrediting the possibilities.

As Donald Rumsfeld said about unknown knowns - someone has probably observed something we did not! Or will convert your unknown unknown soon.

Someone posted recently, in this parish, about nickel rash, so it is not totally inert. and first on the web search is Nickel Catalysts

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:46 PM

Now as for climate change we can hope we will do everything possible including a bit of luck to avoid the runaway effect.
What stands in our way is the petroleum industry and that nearly every private vehicle and every vehicle of war like tanks and planes run on petroleum.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 04:34 PM

I have told Mossback how I refer to a non dyslexic brain as linear in comparison to a dimensional dyslexic brain. There are some diadvantages to a dyslexic brain, as if to pay for other advantages like inventive neural connectedness. That disadvantage would indeed be language. Still some people seem to understand me perfectly well.
One might say one brain is not superior to another but differently abled.

I would never condemn Mr. Shaw for his incompacity to understand. Calling a person with a limp in public 'you bloody gimp' is what Mr. Shaw does in essence. That person with a limp may be more graceful, it depends upon who is judging. Why he thinks he needs to denigrate is a more important question. It is a question he will never ask.

Subject: RE: climate crisis - how do we go from here?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Oct 19 - 02:30 PM

Not worth it here, Bill. We have here an arch-obscurantist who revels in incommunicado science and a bloke who thinks he's a mystic who misuses the language then can't back down. Somebody sensible might SAY something sensible about climate change soon. In plain and accurate English, preferably. I'm working on it. Until such times, I'm butting out.