BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 01:08 PM

May as well start it now. The brexit thread is getting a bit long in the tooth and although the election may be fought around brexit, there are many other issues at stake.

Good summary from Mark Steel in The Independant Main headline -

After nine years running us into the ground, the Tories declare that ‘Britain deserves better’ than them

Enjoy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 19 - 01:12 PM

Boris's nightmare: "With friends like Donald and Nigel, who needs enemies..."

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:20 AM

A comic, but fairly accurate, account of the Brexit Party launch from Tom Peck in the Independent. The italics are his.

====

And so we turn to Nigel Farage, standing on a stage in a church hall in Westminster, demanding Boris Johnson both rip up his withdrawal agreement – the one, single achievement of his time as prime minister – and also to stand down Tory candidates in dozens of seats, to allow his party a clear run at them.


Or else? Or else what? Or else Nigel Farage will put up Brexit Party candidates in every single constituency, and do exactly what he did last time round in 2015. Which, he even actually explained, was to steal Eurosceptic votes from Labour voters who just can’t countenance voting Conservative, and as a consequence hand David Cameron his majority.

That, for now, is the plan. Give me what you can’t possibly give me or else I’ll win you the election.

=====
Whether it is true that he would be able to steal more votes from Labour than from Conservatives in the Labour heartlands is not clear, but it is what Nigel threatened...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 05:47 AM

Another thing I was saying to my wife this morning: the broadcasters will be scrutinised with a much greater intensity than ever at this election. Many parties will want them to be an uncritical conduit of whatever spun messages they want to promote, and the parties will be up in arms about any occasion that the distortions in the messages are pointed out. Expect lots of Trumpish calls of fake media and bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 02 Nov 19 - 06:12 AM

i have such exciting news. after seeing the headline 'Workington Man to decide election' imagine my reaction to the news i was the Workington man chosen to make the decision'!

'thanks very much, brenda-now you and all your family can take a well-earned rest, choose one palace'

'well, not quite yet, pete, your job is to decide the election result not future policy - choose wisely'

'aye sorry - i was getting ahead of myself there'

'well-it's understandable in the circs'

anyway, we are going to have a labour/green coalition with a large majority. scotland will have a SNP/green split. the rest none'


ok, hope that saves everyone a lot of effort and argument - now we can all settle down and be nice to each other and the planet - peace comrades!


(if there is anyway of putting this on the new general election thread i would be grateful)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 04:56 AM

a friend was saying last night he reckoned it was bad that the tories were going to get an easy win. instinctively, i thought that was unlikely - but am i just getting my hopes up again? so doomed to be pissed off again. it's the hope that kills - i wish had the strength to just ignore the whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:10 AM

Boris's nightmare: "With friends like Donald and Nigel, who needs enemies..."


I think not!
Mr Trump won the presidency
The brexit party cleaned up in the EU elections.
Boris may pick up a few tips and thereby gain more popular support off populists.
A win win situation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:10 AM

The lefty luvvies will not like this clip on the Marr program. Even the flat earthers among them need to wise up. The stunning selection of newspapers on the table makes the point well.


https://order-order.com/2019/11/03/mcdonnell-shown-jewish-newspapers-condemning-labour/#disqus_thread

From guido(of course)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:17 AM

Whoever wins, the UK will be run by idiots. johnson has become (arguably always was) a gold medal prick of the highest order, corbyn defies any description the English language cares to offer, and as for big tits swindon????????????

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 06:18 AM

swindon????? swinson!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 09:05 AM

A Scandinavian view, demonstrating the ridiculous horse-shit spread by the vile Tory liars about Corbyn - showing it up as the utter nonsense it most surely is.

An old (2017) piece, but no less true for that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 09:20 AM

The period between now and Dec 12 will be a very long time for Boris Johnson. And you can bet your bottom dollar that this Sunday morning the Tory Party will be praying fervently that there'll be no flu epidemic before the election. That would just about cause the NHS to implode and expose the shabby way it's been treated since the Tories took over, resulting in a lack of beds, understaffing, ballooning waiting lists and the disastrous state of A&E departments. My sister has been highlighting the terrible state of crumbling school buildings. These are Labour's strong points to emphasise in the campaign. They mustn't let the issues raised by the likes of the dreadful Nicky Morgan and co, important though they are, usurp the headlines at the expense of the real issues that face the country as a whole. Threats and abuse are far more to do with the unregulated culture of social media and a vicious us-and-them ethos whipped up by the right-wing press, not to speak of the rotten example set by Boris Johnson and his baying moronic friends in the Commons.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 19 - 05:22 PM

And a very interesting opinion here from Prof. Sir John Curtice, the UK’s leading election expert, on the possible outcome of the election, and the very different effect the result may have on the two main parties.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:25 AM

I posted a comment on the Brexit thread about Andrew Bridgen's attempted defence of Jacob Rees-Mogg's comments on the Grenfell fire.

Here are Rees-Mogg's remarks:

if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would leave the burning building. It just seems the common sense thing to do.


And Nigel's response to me:
RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Nigel Parsons - PM
Date: 05 Nov 19 - 02:43 PM

It's all very well to portray it as guidance from patricians, but the thought process at the time would have been:
"I'm in a burning building, should I follow my instincts, and get out, or follow the advice of the fire brigade and stay put?"


While the fire brigade were giving what they believed (at the time) to be the best advice, it has since transpired that "I'm in a burning building, I need to get out" would have been the best response for most of the victims.
JRM may not have phrased that well, and it may be that there is no way to phrase it without risking offending someone. But, generally speaking, his comments were truthful.

And what has this to do with Brexit anyway?

I have several problems with that, Nigel. Firstly, we live life forwards, not retrospectively. Agreed, on this occasion the advice was tragically flawed. But no one knew that at the time: they just had to go on the situation as it was. Even now, we can't be absolutely certain that there would have been less lives lost if people had not followed the advice.

The second problem is that we are talking about a tower block full of people. If you are on the thirteenth floor, you have very little understanding of the situation on, say, the fourth floor. So you may well be walking *into* the fire in an attempt to walk away from it. You are certainly reducing the number of fire doors between you and the fire *if it is from the inside of the building, not the outside.*
Then you could well find yourself in a crush on the stairs with lots of other residents, some of whom may be in a state of panic. That risks 'Hillsborough' effects.

Thirdly, the fire brigade did not conjure this advice out of the air for the fun of it. It is based on much experience, and it is foolhardy, not common sense, to just ignore it.

But all of this is just background to what was really offensive in RM's remarks - that it was in some way the fault of the victims because they failed to use common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:32 AM

And I said, I was originally talking about Andrew Bridgen, not Rees-Mogg, so is a link to Sky News' comments on Bridgen.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:12 AM

Victim-blaming. How low can those arrogant Tory pieces of shit go? And how can any decent, self-respecting person vote for them?

Defies belief.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:19 AM

Thirdly, the fire brigade did not conjure this advice out of the air for the fun of it. It is based on much experience, and it is foolhardy, not common sense, to just ignore it.

Yet the Piper alpha enquiry highlighted the fact that mustering in the galley was a very bad idea and caused deaths that might have been preventable. There comes a time when you have to make your own mind up about your response. Having worked on an adjacent platform and watched the smoke rising from Piper Alpha, staying put would be the last thing on my mind.

I fully agree with what Rees Mogg had to say. I believe the fire brigade had no platforms capable of reaching the uppermost floors of Grenfell tower. Telling people to stay put when the chance of external rescue was nil is extremely flawed advice and for that alone whoever issued the advice should be prosecuted for gross negligence,

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:43 AM

So the Tories doctored a video in an attempt to misleadingly show Keir Starmer in a bad light, and have spent hundreds of thousands of in taxpayer money to lie to universal credit claimants. It looks like we are going to be confronted by a campaign of Tory lies. These tactics are not only undemocratic, they are anti-democratic. I also note that the attacks on Corbyn are in full flow, one of the latest of which compares him with Stalin. Bring it on, Tories. These are the tactics that lost you your majority last time. More please.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 06:44 AM

SNP, DUP, LidDems and maybe the Greens in the context of the youth eco-movements and Generation X signing on to vote.

The parliament should be hung. And may very well be. Plus ça change? We are living in interesting times.

But the majority of votes are split four ways now, at least.

Brexshit yes/no
& left/right

Throw in a soupçon of tactical voting, and ...... I leave it hanging

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:33 AM

So Alun Cairns resigns as Welsh Secretary minutes before Parliament is dissolved for the election. Is he still a candidate? If not, it is hardly a great sacrifice, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:35 AM

Don't blame Parliament for doing its job, which is patently NOT to be a poodle to the Tory brexit attempts. The divisiveness of brexit in the country at large is accurately reflected in Parliament. In spite of persistent Tory attempts to undermine it, Parliamentary democracy is in a pretty good state at the moment. Which can't exactly be said for this botched and damaging Tory brexit.

I see that the Tory Welsh secretary has had to go, after being embroiled in a scandal in which he lied about what he knew about a discredited aide. The lying ads about universal credit have been banned by the ASA. And Boris has had to scupper his plan to use the civil service, whose wages we taxpayers pay, to produce numbers for him so that he can attack Labour spending plans. And Charlie Elphicke, embroiled in his own sex scandal, is still working for the Tory campaign despite being suspended from the party. Desperate times!   

The Grenfell issue will keep coming back to bite the Tories and could have a huge impact on this campaign. I note that Tory MPs at the final PMQ laughed at Corbyn's green tie, apparently not realising that he was wearing it that day as a tribute to the Grenfell victims. Oops!

Deceit, arrogance, entitlement, lies and more lies. The Tory way, given a new lease of life by the disgraceful Johnson.

And now they're comparing (unfavourably, of course) Corbyn with Pol Pot, Idi Amin and Uncle Joe. Bring it on!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:07 AM

Lies and evasion from Mr. Not-so-Cleverly.

What a bloody plonker!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:17 AM

Whoever wins we get a despicable wanker, do we not!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:46 AM

God, I love Piers Morgan and I hate Piers Morgan...No, I love him but I hate him...But...

Ah, shit!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 08:57 AM

Polls all over the shop - no surprises there!
The zombie Parliament finally dissolved.

http://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 09:16 AM

when the chimps at Monkey World wanted a new alpha male to lead the group, They got together and killed Rodney. The staff just found him dead one morning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 10:09 AM

More Stupendous Revelations. No doubt the working-class Tories would believe it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 10:40 AM

Kay Burley interviews an empty chair on Sky TV when Cone-Head Not-So-Cleverly chickens out...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:20 AM

However the true story is: Kay Burley ’empty chaired’ James Cleverly this morning and the video is doing the rounds on social media, with almost 200,000 views it has been – shared by left-wing figures and Labour activists like Owen Jones. The only problem is Cleverly wasn’t booked to come on her show…
The true story from Guido, of course!

https://order-order.com/2019/11/06/oh-kay-burley-empty-chairs-cleverly-wasnt-booked-show/

"Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation"

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:40 AM

I know you like to make up insulting names for those you don't approve of, BWM, but who does "Cone-Head" refer to?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:46 AM

Read the post.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:48 AM

So Kay Burley lied when she said in the video that he was booked to appear, and was fifteen feet away from her, refusing to appear, as she spoke?

If so, she’d make a good Tory politician.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:49 AM

It's OK BWM. Between typing my question and hitting the submit button, I went off to make a pot of tea. I have now read the response from Ians, referring to James Cleverly.

My interest in your post stopped when I got to the Cone-Head insult so I hadn't noticed that you had worked in another "comic" reference later in the sentence.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 11:59 AM

My interest in your opinion stopped at your attempt to insult me.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:10 PM

My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "On the 2001 Election"

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:28 PM

It's started then. The greased albino piglet used both of his unelected string puller's phrases in his election starting address. Has it really come to this? People would rather hear TV style catch phrases than sensible policies given in a serious manner. Politics has become a reality TV show where the only winners are the rich and powerful. How depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 01:59 PM

I noticed that as well, Dave. I am sure we will hear them both hundreds if not thousands of times in the next few weeks.

As an abstract discussion 'dither and delay' is a much smarter slogan than 'strong and stable'. As we saw, the problem with the latter slogan is that you can mess it up, or have it messed up around you by P45 pranksters. Because it describes a quality you claim to have. But even the most incompetent Tory can barely mess up 'dither and delay' because it is not about the speaker, but the other party. Also, both of them are statements about the future, whereas 'strong and stable' leaks into the present.

As I say, quite smart. As is Labour's 'get Brexit sorted' because it dilutes the 'Get Brexit done' and sows confusion in the minds of people who do not follow politics closely.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:07 PM

At least "For the many, not the few" has been a consistent slogan and does actually tell us something of policy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 02:41 PM

"Grefell Tower"
Wonderful cartoon in The Times showing Rees Mogg spraweled flat, as he was during Parliament's most important debate, like a superior despot - this time in the gutter
THat sums up perfectly this lot's attitude to those who elected them - everything that happens to them is their own fault for being poor

No surprise that these who showed themselves unwuilling to give the survivors the use of vacant property rather than upset the status quo should continue to support this cartoon caricature
So far in the debate, when people ask fro the right to homes jobs and education for their kids, Tories have described these please as "envy politics" - as if anybody would with occupy the same place in society as these greedy degenerates
The lie of health expenditure was inevitable - as was pointed out in a debate this morning, there will be no extra money being put into health but in fact the results of expenditure cuts over the last few years will be promised to be softened slightly (until after the election)
They have no intention of addressing the causes of crime - the continuing alienation of the poor - instead, the g' old US solution of bigger and better jails
You can bet your last on arming the police isn't that far way
Brexit has proved itself a total fiasco, so all they can hope for there is people will vote to end the war of attrition it has become (The LIb Dems appear to have shot themselves in the foot by apparently treating the people with the same contempt as the Tories with partonoising "don't worry you little heads - we'll make nasty Brexit go away without your help
What a ***** shower
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:11 PM

It was all progressing without problems for a couple of days! I wonder why that was?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 03:48 PM

"the greased albino piglet"...he'd probably like that language, Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 04:00 PM

It was his colleagues in the party that coined it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 19 - 07:17 PM

Great start for the Johnson's Junta that the Welsh Conservatives are entering a General election totally leaderless as a Welsh Cabinet Minister has been forced to resign for his involvement in interfering in a rape trial and there is nobody to replace him
It is totally unprecedented that any party should lose a senior minister after on the same day the former Prime Minister visits the queen to confirm an election, but this really is something else
The rape victim has said that not one of his party colleagues has contacted her for this appalling behaviour - shows the type of people Britain is being asked to elect are having to vote for   
Great to be back - just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water - eh-what !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:17 PM

Great start to Labour's electioneering.
The labour second in command has just quit.
Former Labour MP John Woodcock joined Ian Austin in calling on voters to back the Conservatives, because Jeremy Corbyn could not be trusted on national security and is unfit to lead the country.

You could not make it up.

Yet more spiffing news:New Speaker Sir Lindsay has confirmed he will ban MPs trying to tear up the Commons rule book in future, and reverse Bercow’s reforms that allowed Remain MPs to block Brexit. Against the advice of constitutional experts at the time…

Speaking on Nick Robinson’s Political Thinking Podcast, Hoyle said his approach will make it much harder for a future House of Commons to resist the government of the day; specifically around whether MPs can amend business motions that set the way in which the Commons structures its debates.

Latest polls:

YouGov: CON: 36% (-2) LAB: 25% (-) LDEM 17% (+1) BREX: 11% (-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 01:55 PM

For those discussing the rape trial which led to Alan Cairns resigning his position. It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rape. The offender has been jailed for 5 years at a re-trial. details here
I may normally side with the Conservatives, but in this case, the truth needs to be available so that people can make informed comments.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 02:54 PM

" It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rap"
It was the judge who castigated your hero and it was up to the court to decide whatever it was rape - not you
The bastard you are defending stopped a pssible rape victim from the right to put the man she accused on trial
Is that your idea of aa conservative brave new world give Johnson's promises on law and order?
Yours is a scurrilous defense of an evil act
You should be well used to doing that considering the serial behavior of your glorious leader
im Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 04:22 PM

Jim:
" It takes a little searching to confirm that there was actually a rap"
It was the judge who castigated your hero and it was up to the court to decide whatever it was rape - not you
The bastard you are defending stopped a pssible rape victim from the right to put the man she accused on trial
Is that your idea of aa conservative brave new world give Johnson's promises on law and order?
Yours is a scurrilous defense of an evil act
I thought better of you. I have not defended this.
Read what I wrote, not what you wanted to read into it.
The point of this is that, because of the actions of Ross England, the original trial was called off. It was not for me, or the judge, or that court to say whether there was, in truth, a case to be answered.

I was not defending Ross England, but making clear that there has been a re-trial, at which the original defendant was found guilty, and sentenced to 5 years.

If there is anything 'scurrilous' about this, it is your attack on me, when all I was doing was setting the record straight, and confirming that this was NOT a case where I would side with the offender.


Try reading carefully before responding.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 05:45 PM

An unscientific snapshot coming up.

I had to take my daughter to the fracture clinic at the Royal Cornwall Hospital this morning. We were seen promptly and were treated with kindness and friendly smiles all round. But the staff, from tbe receptionist to the healthcare assistants to the nurses to the consultant, were clearly overworked. One nurse told us that he had a huge queue of patients to see. The receptionist was, at one point, clearly overwhelmed and couldn't keep up. She was dealing with a ten-deep queue of patients trying to book in and, at the same time, the anxious phone calls from confused patients. I saw two nurses running in the corridor to get from one patient to another, not because of any emergencies but because there were too many patients and not enough of them...

Welcome to Tory Britain. Understaffing, under-investment and a cynical disregard for ordinary people. A&E departments overrun. Operations cancelled wholesale. Waiting lists off the scale. It doesn't affect Tories, of course. They have their queue-jumping contracts...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 06:00 PM

That's a very short poem WAV - rather cryptic.

I'm not good at cryptic - still keep at it, one day you'll come up with The Charge of the Light Brigade.

I'm jealous. I can't do poems.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 19 - 06:20 PM

As you may have seen on another thread, the better half has just had a major operation. The staff, bar none, were wonderful. But, to concur with Steve, there was just not enough of them. Particularly over the weekend. This is a direct result of Tory cuts and wage caps. They are now making matters worse by trying to rid us of the immigrants that the NHS rely on to run hospitals. Boris continues to lie. As long as the gullible continue to fall for it things will get worse. Labour are the only party that can turn that round.