BS: A thought for our General Election

Subject: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Raedwulf
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 04:17 PM

The title, of course, does not exclude any overseas friends, especially you Yoosers who are not us Yookers. ;-) But I wrote this a couple of hours ago in response to a post that a couple friends had shared on Fb. I'm not known for starting posts on the ol' 'cat, but I thought, perhaps, the thoughts here might resonate at least a little with many of you here, regardless of your political leanings. I therefore offer it (slightly edited) for whatever it might be worth; comment as you please. I've no power of moderation. I do, however, reserve the right to go "Yah, sucks, boo!" to anyone being rude or obviously unpleasant. ;-)

There is a post currently doing the rounds (two friends have already shared it; I expect there will be more), by one Peter Olusoga, declaring that this govt is to blame for poverty. It includes an enormous list of links that "prove" his point. They don't, of course; it's just an idiotic political polemic.

You can't blame this govt for poverty; it was there before it; it will be there after it. It will always be there, not least because poverty is relative. So there will always be poverty & there will always be poor.

I don't know when my family acquired a TV set (I never felt we were poor, though we were certainly working class), but there was one throughout my recallable childhood. I've vague memories of watching kids programmes with my Mum. Andy Pandy (who I detested) was always in b&w (I was maybe 3 or 4; I think it was before infant school, before she went back to work), because little if anything for TV was filmed in colour when it was made (as far as I'm aware). I've a vague memory of watching The Herbs in b&w (& that WAS made in colour). I definitely remember watching the 1974 World Cup in b&w. Somewhere between there & 40 years ago, the b&w set became a colour one. Nowadays, if you can't afford a TV (& licence!), and it will be colour & of a definition unimaginable 40 years ago, you're poor. Prisoners have TV sets in their cells; to not have them is a breach of their human rights (or so it is often alleged, mostly with a sneer). Poverty is relative, the world has moved on a good deal, and there are many factors that are involved.

To blame this govt for poverty is idiotic.

Having said that, & lest anyone misunderstand me, let me be clear - I will be voting against the CON jobs, I will be voting against Boris the Clown, and if I had one vote for each cause, I'd use them both!

What this govt has done is what they always do, because the CON jobs seemingly don't know how not to. Their philosophies (which I will come back to) don't allow for it. If you're doing alright, they're quite good at helping you do better (not always; if you're on the wrong end of bad luck, then it's hard luck usually; safety nets cost money). If you're doing decently or well, so much more to your advantage they are. If you're below "doing alright" they're crap at helping you do better, and the further down you are, the worse they are at doing so.

The one thing that the CON jobs are really, really good at is WIDENING THE DIVIDE. Increasing the gap between rich & poor. They cant help it. Have they increased the amount of poverty? I wouldn't argue with that statement.

But they aren't "to blame" for poverty. It was always there & it always will be.

A large part of the reason for this widening is that pile of garbage, that most of them are in hock to (or something like it), known as "trickle-down economics". The problem with the CON jobs primarily is that they cannot distinguish between money & wealth. If we all have £1M we are no more rich than we are poor if we all have only £1K. Poverty is relative, remember? Nevertheless, "trickle down" is a political philosophy. There are plenty on the Right who do believe in it. And that's the point of this lengthy Polemic Of My Very Own!

It's a plea for tolerance over the next couple of weeks.

What has disgusted & alarmed me for 20 years or more is the way our politics in the UK has increasingly gone down the polarised US road (both in the sense of American, and of "Us & Them"). No-one listens any more. If You Are Not For Me You Are Against Me!!!

The vast majority of my friends who express political opinions are not only Left of Centre, they are to the Left of my own mild Leftishness. Rarely do any of them do this directly in what they say, but there are several of them who DO share what can only be described as bigoted propaganda. And sometimes they don't even seem to be able to recognise that it is. Especially, a lot of them have friends of their own who post comments that are so one-eyed that they'd label them Daily Fail readers {for non-Yooks, this is an admittedly sneering phrase for the one-eyed, bigoted (right-wing) who'll swallow any old crap & regurgitate it; please, note, there's plenty on the Left who are just the same, which is my point!} if what they were saying belonged to the Right. Except, seemingly, it's alright because they're on your side. And The Other Side are all...

Human Beings.

For whatever reasons, they have ideals & philosophies of their own. You may think they're hogwash, but they cleave to them as closely as you do to yours. Why shouldn't they? Demonising them, declaring that they're only in it for themselves & their mates, and all the rest of the usual tripe, may go down well with your friends, but it doesn't look any different to me than the way you label followers of The Fail or The Scum (for Non-Yooks, these are two newspapers, The Daily Mail and The Sun, both notoriously & blindly right-wing). Even Tory MP's are allowed to have beliefs & ideals; even Boris the Clown (though I think His Ideal & what he Mostly Believes In is His Own Heavenly Self!).

In a couple of weeks, you get to make your opinion known in a concrete (& hopefully not a CONcrete!) way. It probably won't make much difference wherever you are, because our FPTP system is WPIS-BD (Way Past Its Sell-By Date).

But in the meanwhile, please try to remember that those on The Other Side are also human, with their own dearly-held notions. We all know how the EU Referendum went, both before & after. How bitterly divided the nation has been (with very few actually listening to whichever side The Other Side is!). So the next time one of Them Says Something, or a friend of a friend who is nothing more than pixels to you comments, or a meme or post pops up & you think "Yeeeeeeaaah!!!"... Take a breath, take a pause, have a think, and ask yourself if sharing or spitting venom is really going to achieve anything right now. Believe me, it won't. It never has.

Haven't we had enough venom, these past few years?

(And I don't suppose this will go very far; it's far too reasonable (I hope!), but if what I've written strikes any sort of a chord with whoever is reading this, feel free to share the hell out of it!)

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:05 PM

I did'nt expect the Spanish Inquisition intervening in your election.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:16 PM

Bollocks. This government has reigned over unnecessary austerity for almost a decade, which has affected the poorest in the country severely but their class not at all. This government has shat on benefits claimants and left greedy landlords severely alone. It has imposed a crippling pay freeze on public sector workers for years and has presided over an astronomical increase in zero-hours contracts and the gig economy, leaving millions of working people not knowing where their next pay cheque is coming from or how they'll pay the next month's rent. Homelessness has burgeoned (I don't look the other way). The number of kids living in poverty is going through the roof, mental health is a massive problem and the care system is in meltdown. And do try not to get sick unless you have private health insurance. The one good thing you've said is that you're not voting Tory. That gets you out of hell but you'll be a bloody long time in purgatory.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Nov 19 - 05:49 PM

Have a little read of this (google) then tell me that governments can't cause poverty:

"Headteacher Judy Shaw: ‘My staff are fantastic but they can’t fight poverty’"

Yes, there's a connection.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 02:59 AM

I would say that the Tory policies are not THE cause of poverty. But they are A cause.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 01:13 PM

Thankfully, Steve, I believe in none of Hell (Hel, yes), Heaven, nor Purgatory. And you are precisely one of the one-eyed that... You're welcome to your opinion. But I refer the Honourable Member back to my point.

This govt no more than any other, no govt is responsible for poverty. Poverty is always there. I already said that I wouldn't argue if you said this govt has helped to increase it. But are you trying to tell me that it's done so deliberately & maliciously? It hasn't & any claim on your part that it has simply displays the blind bigotry & venom that I was referring to. It's followed its policies that it believed was right, just the same as your Socialist Idealists would follow theirs, have followed theirs in the past & when the fuck did they ever eliminate poverty? Never. That's when.

As D says, as I said, yes they are... A contributor to the current state of affairs. Inevitably so; they are the govt after all. All your bollocks does is prove that you can't, as usual, see past your own bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 02:26 PM

If government policies around austerity and kicking benefits claimants in the teeth lead to a rise in the numbers suffering poverty, then that government is causing poverty. Just because poverty existed before it doesn't mean that the government can't create more. It has done and it has done it concertedly. The sooner you learn that that's what Tories do the better.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Mossback
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 03:12 PM

But are you trying to tell me that it's done so deliberately & maliciously?

No, its done callously & indifferently - which is considerably worse.

That’s how the morbidly wealthy have always done & always will.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 03:28 PM

You start an election thread by trying to tell us that this wicked Tory administration isn't responsible for poverty because "it's always been there." What a vacuous argument. Frankly, you are a Tory apologist. What a shame.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 06:00 PM

There are times when I totally lose patience with your bigotry, Shaw, & this is one of them. The original post wasn't even about the Tories. Never mind vacuous, despite your supposed intelligence, you are too bigoted, too blind, too gob-smackingly fucking stupid to see that. Tory apologist? Fuck you & the horse you rode in on. Twat.

And yes, mods, feel free to close this thread if you wish. It's obviously not going to serve the purpose I hoped it might. Not when blind bigots are doing exactly what I was speaking against.

Just in case you still don't understand, Shaw, here's a response I had from a friend on Fb who did understand what I was getting at as you, obviously do not!

"For some reason I cannot share this. But I'd like to as it expresses a plea for tolerance better than I could."

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 06:04 PM

Well I hope the thread, along with your amazing litany of insults, is permitted to stand, as it's quite important at times that people are allowed to expose themselves for what they really are. Luckily for me, perhaps, I haven't got any "friends on Facebook..." :-)

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 06:16 PM

Incidentally:

"The original post wasn't even about the Tories..."

The original post is replete with references to what "this govt" has done. Last I heard, "this govt" is a Tory "govt.". N'est-ce pas?

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 12:13 PM

Yes, it's quite incredible how often you expose yourself (ooo-er, etc). Yet again. total lack of comprehension. It can't be otherwise, can it, Steve, because you have exposed, time & time again, how much you struggle ever to recognise when you're wrong, much less actually admit it.

Well I hope the thread is permitted to stand

I never asked for it to be deleted, did I, O Self-Appointed Master of the English Language? I said it could be closed. Having been polluted by your ignorance & bigotry, I can't see how it's going to serve any useful purpose.

The original post is replete with references to...

So what? The OP is about tolerance, about not demonising people, random bunches of pixels & etc. I've even explicitly told you it's about tolerance & you're still insisting it's about the Tories & trying to insult me. I don't think "too bigoted, too blind, too gob-smackingly fucking stupid" is an amazing litany of insults; it simply fits the "exposed" behaviour. Why are you so bloody stupid at times, Steve? What is the big deal about shoving your hand up & saying "Ooops, I think got this one wrong"?

You'll remember we exchanged a few PM's recently. You assured me you enjoyed our "banter". This isn't banter; I don't enjoy talking to you when you're like this, and there's been at least 3 or 4 occasions when I've taken an extended an extended break from the 'cat because of an unpleasant exchange of views, and either directly or indirectly, it's been you that's been the major party. Are you proud of that? Here's some more words for you that I'm sure you'll find amazing. Pompous, priggish, pedantic, patronising, sneering, bigoted (especially where politics is concerned), arrogant. You can be one, some, or all of those damn things in a single post, yet it never, ever, ever seems to occur to you that it's YOU that is the problem. It's always the other poster, isn't it?

And just so's no-one misunderstands (you will if you want to, because you always do if you want to), both this post & the previous are written with considerable emphasis but, despite any language, without heat. I know you on here for what you are on here & I'm afraid a lot of people (if anyone bothers to read this, of course) will recognise there's a good deal of truth in what I've said. Take your head out of your backside some time. You might see & hear a bit more. You might learn something.

I'm done with this. Thanks for totally fucking up the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: A thought for our General Election
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 19 - 01:05 PM

...He said without irony.... :-)