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BS: US war with Iran begins
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Jan 20 - 08:31 PM An early response from Iran is that they have more or less abandoned the nuclear deal. That won't stress out Trump, I suppose, but what a retrograde step it is. One thing we know is that, while Iran sponsors Hezbollah and supports Hamas, they have never physically invaded other nations. That can hardly be said for most of the nations surrounding them and for the western nation that sees it as its God-given right to interfere in the Middle East. That is not to say that Iran is any sort of paragon. It definitely is not. But if we continually shit on countries like Iran we shouldn't be surprised if we reap a whirlwind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 05 Jan 20 - 09:28 PM they have never physically invaded other nations. They invade other countries through proxy armies that they train, arm and support, what do you think Soleimani was doing with Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis the commander of Kata'ib Hezbollah militia in Iraq? The same militia that was behind the attack on the US embassy. Iran also has proxy armies in Syria, where they ruthlessly slaughtered thousands in service to Assad, Yemen, Lebanon and Gaza. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Jan 20 - 09:42 PM And the US fights and has fought proxy wars all over the place. And I suppose that if I remind you that the US gives around three billion of military aid to tiny Israel every year, aid which has supported Israeli invasions, repeatedly in some cases, of Gaza, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, not to speak of air strikes in Iran, you'll call me antisemitic or something... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 05 Jan 20 - 10:17 PM For 2017, out of a total $49 billion in US foreign aid Israel received $3.2 billion. In the same year Arab and Muslim countries received more that $20 billion of American taxpayer money. The biggest recipients were Afghanistan with $5.7 billion followed by Kuwait with $4.5 billion and Iraq with $3.7 billion. you'll call me antisemitic or something. Seeing your need to insert Israel into a discussion that has nothing to do with Israel and your obsession with the fact that Israel receives US aid and saying that Israel "invaded" those places, which implies offensive actions, I don't have call you anything it's pretty much self evident. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Jan 20 - 11:33 PM Not according to most of the Iranians posting on Twitter I doubt you read farsi or arabic, bobad, so I can only guess that you're trolling, because this is not what is being reported in media around the world. And when there is a possibility that Israel will be discussed in the thread, here you are. Ignore the troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Iains Date: 06 Jan 20 - 03:15 AM Had the US and UK not replaced Mohammad Mosaddegh the 35th prime minister of Iran, with the Shah, the subsequent history of Iran would have been very different. The US backed Shah was deeply unpopular and replaced by a popular revolution. Iran voted by national referendum to become an Islamic republic on 1 April 1979 and to formulate and approve a new theocratic-republican constitution whereby Khomeini became Supreme Leader of the country in December 1979. and you could argue it has been downhill ever since. Around 90–95% of Iranians associate themselves with the Shia branch of Islam, the official state religion. According to official statistics, 75–85% of Saudi Arabian citizens are Sunni Muslims, With the red flag unfurled over the Jamkaran Mosque it could argued that this maarks the fight between Dar al-Islam, for the Muslim peoples--and Dar al-Harb for everyone else whom must be forced into submission. Some argue this division of the world was corrupted by the Sunni monarchy of Saudi Arabia when they betrayed Islam by willfully becoming a part of what is known as the US Petrodollar System. Perhaps looking at recent history through the lens of the link below explains many things https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2020/1/3/does-riyadh-feel-threatened-by-the-new-muslim-alliance All is not as it seems if you venture down the rabbit hole! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:53 AM I note the sneaky conflation of military aid and foreign aid. I was at pains to point out that proxy war is not confined to just "one side" in all this. I could have mentioned Russia too. There. That proves that I'm not a commie either. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mr Red Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:16 AM but am open to suggestions! Hmmmm. The triumph of hope over experience - shot down in flames! To be frank, Trump has had a few goes at creating a war. It is in his DNA to fire at multiple targets. It is the one tacktic (sic) that defines his MO. Create so many fires that you can't put them all out, and struggle with any single one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:55 AM I suggest that few acts by the US could have turned the citizenry of Iran from protesting their own government and turned their wrath against the US exclusivly, but Trump chose one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Rapparee Date: 06 Jan 20 - 07:41 AM First, don't forget that Britain and France had immense roles in defining what became the countries of I ran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, et al. after World Wars I and II. Secondly, a recent decision was made to allow Saudi Arabia to make US "smart bombs" and the technology to do so has already been transferred. Thirdly, with the decision by Iraq to require the removal of ALL US forces there and the statement by you-know-who to slam the Iraqis with heavy sanctions if such removal happens, Iraq will move to Iran for help. This will pit Iraq/Iran against the Saudis, and Kuwait and the Gulf States will get the short end of it. Fourthly, the US Navy very recently decided to cut way, way back on shipbuilding in 2020 and has given up its plans for a 595 ship fleet (I think that was the number). You can think of more, I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 08:30 AM Iranians, supporters of the People’s Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI, Mujahedin-e Khalq or MEK), and the people of Syria and Iraq, are rejoicing after the death of the Iranian regime’s notorious General, Qassem Soleimani, who was responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of people both inside and outside Iran. People in Iran and Across the Globe Celebrate Qassem Soleimani’s Death |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 08:46 AM I doubt you read farsi or arabic, bobad, so I can only guess that you're trolling There are Iranians who are conversant in English, believe it or not. Also Twitter translates posts, so please curb your condescension and your labeling of those with whom you disagree as trolls. I'm sorry for your loss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 08:54 AM As for what is being reported in the media this is what one poster who describes herself as "a proud and hopeful Syrian - now and always" has to say about that: "Not saying a decent amount of Iranians arent upset about Soleimani. State propaganda can do that. But it seems lot of people dont know how this stuff works in totalitarian states. When Hafez Assad died his goons went into homes & basically threw you out in the street to mourn him." |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:00 AM Then he joins the pantheon of those bad western men responsible for thousands of deaths. Reagan. Kennedy. Lyndon Johnson. Nixon. Sharon. Bush. Blair. Plenty of non-western men too, of course. But yer man in Iran, bad man that he was, was merely a member of a world club. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:14 AM Bobad, while I appreciate (really and strongly) your remembering my dad, do not ever, ever again presume that I would be happy, or anything other than horrified, at the death of any enemy. I am a pacifist. This was a murder. I am also an atheist. This was not martyrdom. How long do we have to kill Them to prove they should stop wanting to kill Us? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:17 AM Upon rereading, I am also not a she. But that was a lot less upsetting than being lumped with the revenge-seekers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:25 AM I think you misread my post but be that as it may I am of the mind that eliminating someone who is responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people and preventing him from doing so again in the future is a good thing, YMMV. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:02 AM I don't think I misread anything. I quote: I'm willing to wager that Mrrzy, whose father was killed in the terrorist car bombing of the US embassy in Beirut orchestrated by Soleimani, isn't wringing [their] hands over his "martyrdom". [Close quote.] Not to mention that he didn't orchestrate that particular bombing as far as I can tell, and I sat through weeks of testimony. And if he had, I would still be horrified by his murder. Accusing me of stupidity is hardly apologizing for presuming me to be vengeful. Or to speak for me as if I were. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:20 AM "...I am of the mind that eliminating someone..." Aren't words a problem sometimes. You like the idea that we can "eliminate" him. You avoid saying murdering, assassinating, blowing him to pieces, or even just killing him (add "in cold blood," which would be true, if you like). You don't say whether you'd have been OK pushing the death button. Just now I eliminated a spider from the bath. He's currently outside the bathroom window trying to get back in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 Jan 20 - 10:33 AM Interesting POV here from The Week’. It makes a very good point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Iains Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:36 AM The article makes a lot of valid points. But we are not privy to any of the details giving rise to the action. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 11:54 AM I don't think I misread anything. I should have said misconstrued. First off I never used the word happy which has a vastly different emotive impact than the words I used. Secondly you must have missed the quotation marks on the word martyrdom which, in this context are shorthand for so-called, the term was used by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei in describing the killing of Solomeini. That you misconstrue my words in order to showcase your beliefs is dishonest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mossback Date: 06 Jan 20 - 12:04 PM Two observations: 1.- It must be a particularly virulent and perverse form of mashochism that compels someone to interact with such specimens such as BooBad & Inaines. 2. It would have been preferable for the future of the U.S and the world at large has the assassination scenario been reversed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 12:06 PM As for the embassy bombing it was carried out by Hezbollah with the approval and financing of senior Iranian officials. Solomeini was in charge of Al Quds foreign operations which was deployed to Lebanon in 1982, where it assisted in the genesis of Hezbollah. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Jan 20 - 12:28 PM You were willing to wager that I would not be unhappy (logical equivalent, would be happy) because revenge. Horrible attitude you have ascribed to me. Why not just say sorry for putting those awful words in my mouth? And assisting in a genesis of X is hardly masterminding Y. He was only 26 at the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:13 PM ”I am of the mind that eliminating someone who is responsible for murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people and preventing him from doing so again in the future is a good thing,” So you would equally approve of similarly ‘eliminating’ the leader of the regime which, for the past number of years, has been carrying out a policy of ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza, resulting in the murder or displacement of thousands of innocent people, and the theft of their homes and land? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Bonzo3legs Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:26 PM But God is on the side of Israel, so I won't have a word said against it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:44 PM Backwoods man, I would approve of administrating a hearty spanking to any fool who makes such idiotic accusations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:52 PM Then stop digging. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Backwoodsman Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:54 PM Not just me who makes the accusation - there are millions of people all over the world making it, based on the wealth of overwhelming, indisputable evidence. As you seem unable to see the wealth of overwhelming, indisputable evidence, I can only assume your blindness and deafness is the result of your entire head being implanted in your anal cavity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 01:55 PM Some things never change |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 02:05 PM Not just me who makes the accusation - there are millions of people all over the world making it Let me guess, Corbyn's supporters......right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Bonzo3legs Date: 06 Jan 20 - 03:19 PM The leftwaffe has spoken!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 06 Jan 20 - 04:59 PM An interesting and informative take on Suleimani from Thomas Friedman in the New York Times. Opening paragraph: "One day they may name a street after President Trump in Tehran. Why? Because Trump just ordered the assassination of possibly the dumbest man in Iran and the most overrated strategist in the Middle East: Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani." NYT Article |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:00 PM Gosh, this belongs in two threads, so I might put it in both. This attack in Iran has potentially nobbled the UK's pledge to "take back control." Trump has form. You can bet your life that the UK getting onside with the US over Iran will be an absolute condition of our getting a trade deal. We will go cap in hand to Trump. Hey, brexiteers, did you see that on your ballot paper? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mossback Date: 06 Jan 20 - 06:39 PM Now here's something else that belongs in two threads: Who is the bigger lying sack of shit and threat to democratic government world-wide: Trump or Johnson?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:10 PM Evil men do not have to be master minds. Intelligence and evil are actually mutually exclusive. The skill sets of evil men are not genius, they are merely effective fear and distraction. Mr. Friedman you are becoming captain obvious in your old age. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 06 Jan 20 - 09:28 PM DC was delayed by nearly an hour today since every military related site was on lock down with only half the entrances and egress open. Backups were prolific and effected most commutes. Airports are still the soft targets but have AR's displayed like in Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mr Red Date: 07 Jan 20 - 04:07 AM We are all pacifists until someone kills our brother. Then the remaining pacifists are cannon fodder. It is the way the world works. For religious zealots read greed. For warmongers, read power crazed aka greed. Not what we wish, but wishes don't stop bullets. War is not pretty. But then as we are finding-out, neither is a burgeoning population dumping waste gasses into the atmosphere. Population is relevant - there is increasingly less territory and more neighbours to steal it from. I don't suggest solutions, but like the "Great Stink" that got up the noses of politicians moving them to act on the pollution in the Thames............ Things have to get so worse before politicians act. Like I said "when someone kills your brother........." Sorry Donuel I disagree with Intelligence and evil are actually mutually exclusive. Intelligence may figure much less, but can evade notice &/or capture. It can survive to reek much more havoc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:39 AM You are entitled to disagree with my generalized polemic. I too have reservations with the 'truism'. Like, The first casualty of war is not the truth but the comedians. But in fact... The comedian Lopez made a joke about an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump yesterday and the twittersphere is calling for his arrest by Secret Service. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Nigel Parsons Date: 07 Jan 20 - 05:45 AM The comedian Lopez made a joke about an 80 million dollar bounty on Trump yesterday and the twittersphere is calling for his arrest by Secret Service. Arrest of Lopez? or Trump? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:02 AM You are a Good editor Nigel. I knew what I meant but your version is funnier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Backwoodsman Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:12 AM Hopefully, Trumpelthinskin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:21 AM Bullshit, Mr. Red. We all remained pacifists after our brother/father/ husband/uncle was killed. We being my large extended family. If you turn to violence for revenge, you weren't a pacifist, you were peaceful. And Bobad, thanks again for remembering daddy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 07 Jan 20 - 06:46 AM An urge for vengence is not vengence on a personal level but I can see the point how a crowd mentality can exaccerbate vengence. An unsigned letter from the Pentagon that was full of typos was sent to the Iraq goverment saying we are removing all our 5,200 troops from their country and had several confusing contradictions. Today the Pentagon says it was a clerical mistake. they need Nigel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Donuel Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM Reknown war monger with Iran, fired National Security advisor John Bolton is now in a position to take down Donald Trump with his Impeachment testimony. The irony keeps rolling along. Trumpirony - new 2020 word |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: bobad Date: 07 Jan 20 - 09:44 AM "Don’t believe Iranian propaganda about the mourning for Soleimani" Masih Alinejad |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jan 20 - 01:09 PM Another Washington Post columnist has an overarching view of the assassination and the repercussions: an interview on WNYC's The Takeaway While Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress seem as divided as ever, the media portrayal of Iran shows the country united behind its government. But just how accurate is that viewpoint? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Mrrzy Date: 07 Jan 20 - 02:34 PM Interesting article by surviving Iranian hostages. Hope no firewall. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/iran-hostages.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: US war with Iran begins From: Bonzo3legs Date: 07 Jan 20 - 03:46 PM Masih Alinejad is an Iranian journalist, author and women’s rights campaigner. She hosts the Tablet talk show on Voice of America’s Persian service. |
