BS: 2020 national election, USA - BIDEN wins Nov 7

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:50 PM

I switch back & forth.. but despite the music, Steve Kornacki has the most clear details about what is happening with county votes and comparing them to 2016. Ohio numbers coming in favoring Biden...

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:30 PM

I don't know what's gonna happen.
Emotionally I'm with Bill D. and Jeri.

Walked to my polling place in the dark and they had the place all prepared for Covid-19 spacing and relatively cheery. Folks were well behaved and happy to be there. There were a variety of circular "I voted" stickers to put on your coat (it was 20 degrees F and clear) including a colorful depiction of an Eskimo woman banging a drum.

Later while dog walking a car drove up to the park with a big magnetic sign with the name of a local woman running in my district. As the driver got out I asked him if he was on her campaign. "I'm her husband!" "Well, I voted for her!" Frankly, even in this environment, I suspect Anchorage, Alaska will come out straight Conservative on every ballot choice. Opposite my votes, but we'll see.

My dog walking partner has heard me describe how four years ago I sat in a Chinese restaurant under the television set and watched the world turn bad. So everytime I talk about getting Chinese food tonight I've been getting a round of "Don't you WANT us to win?". Another acquaintance spread it around that they wouldn't vote for anyone. So I left them a message: "I've never convinced anyone of anything political, but if at least you let me know you vote today, I'll get that on my resume for the rest of my life!"

Staying away from the news until tonight, then I'm going to see what's going on in FL (whose polls should be closing right about now) and if I can get some sleep I will and will check in tomorrow morning.

Real Democracy is not for sissies.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 07:22 PM

Bill, most of the folks you named are ok. I like Rachel, I like Joy Reid. The other MSNBC hosts irritate me in some way. (Which they can't do anything about.) I just turned from MSNBC to CNN, because of the idiotic "we're so excited" music, which on year, was so loud, you couldn't hear the person talked. Every election, for at least 8 years. I wish they'd just cut the music out and let people talk. Of course, that may just be my own personal bugaboo.

Biden's ahead in NH. (Does it matter that it's <1% of the vote? I was afraid we'd go for whatshisname.

So, do I stay up until the results are mostly in? I can go for 3 days. (Well, I COULD. I'm too much of a wimp now.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 06:14 PM

Wow everyone is making informed predictions. Could anyone get a perfect score?

Eric Severide and Murrow were great to listen to. Murrow was easier for me to understand.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: pdq
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 12:32 PM

As far as the Senate, the Republicans will lose Colorado and the Democrats will lose Alabama.

After that, few seats are really in play despite the media hype.

No, seats in Texas, Montana, Iowa, South Carolina, Kentucky and Georgia were never in danger.

Arizona and Maine will probably be flipped to Democrat.

North Carolina is likely to stay Republican but it will be a close call.

At best the Dems can get to 50/50. 51/49 Republican majority is my official guess.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM

It was just a hurried post... **Charley** Cook.

Lawrence O'Donnell is an extremely knowledgeable expert on how the Senate works, and a virulent critic of Trump... and he follows Maddow.
I can find personal idiosyncrasies in any of the hosts/commentators I watch, but that's why I follow a wide assortment.
Maddow explains the same point 9 different ways until I yell at the screen.."Yes, Rachael, I've got it!" but WOW, how she and her excellent staff find stuff that no one else does!
O'Donnell generalizes and stretches his metaphors until I'm glad he isn't a Republican.
   Joy Reid, not surprisingly, overdoes Black issues and guests... but IS accurate and quick to see thru a bad argument.
   Chris Hayes talks a mile a minute and asks compound-complex questions that often include what answer he expects.

On CNN, Wolf Blitzer plods thru news like he never had an original thought. But he does know a lot...

   Anderson Cooper, like several CNN anchors, pretends to be fair & neutral by having some **conservative** pundit on..like Rick Santorum, who has so many flaws that I suspect that's why he's there... to be a bad example.
   Chris Cuomo is pretty good, but has little sense of humor...

Fareed Zakaria is excellent, but is not on daily.

MSNBC has many 'hosts' they are constantly switching around and 'testing' on late night and weekends, with some pretty good ones, like Jason Johnson....

,,,and I STILL miss Aaron Brown who disappeared years ago. I think he was considered to be boring, but he was good!

I extract what I can from all these people, and even occasionally switch to Fox when there's an important story, just to see how they're spinning it!

News junkie? Me? shucks, I remember H. V. Kaltenborn, Eric Sevareid and Edward R. Murrow!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 11:00 AM

I might click on your link, but is there a reason you didn't name "this guy"? O'Donnell is hard for me to take.

I said it a while ago (to I-don't-know-whom), I think the election results will be a number of degrees greater than a landslide. I think it will be big enough tonight for as-yet-uncounted write ins to not make a difference. I think it will be big enough so a whiney "they stole the election" Trump can't possibly be taken seriously.

Or maybe I'm just hoping. I think his rallies/his shows involve followers who are loud and fanatical, but not large in number. I hope.

I have too much tying me to this country to move to Canada, but they won't let me in, anyway. Don't think I haven't thought about it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:49 AM

detailed analysis

---

Cook Political Report (very reputable)

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:46 AM

Last night on Lawrence O'Donnell, this guy predicted a Democratic win in both houses of Congress and the presidency. He thinks there will be about a 10 member gain on the House and at least a majority in the Senate. He says it is possible there will be a very large electoral college win for Biden. O'Donnell says Cook is the premiere election analyst in the country.

Nevertheless, I bought extra beer yesterday..........

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:42 AM

If the split-electoral-college vote system used by Maine and Nebraska had been in use for all States in the last few elections, and the popular vote had been exactly the same, it would only have changed the result one time - Romney would have won in 2012. And Bush and Trump would both have still been elected President having had fewer popular votes.

So it wouldn't necessarily have solved much. (Of course the change might have altered the voting pattern, since "swing states" wouldn't be the only significant ones any longer.).

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:28 AM

Ex President Andrew Johnson did win one more election but as a Senator.
Senator Trump from Florida???

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:22 AM

Trump is less like Andrew Jackson and most like Andrew Johnson including impeachment and the record 29 Vetos, racism and hate.
Stilly is right about 2 months of mischief and payback.

Biden has learned to not make Gore's mistake of withdrawing or backing down.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:07 AM

The senate is sworn in on Jan 3, so the damage Trump can do (with partners in crime) is until then. His executive orders and such can continue up to when Biden is sworn in.

I expect a lot of flouncing around in anger, a total refusal to even pretend to be productive, and possibly Trump "pardoning" himself and leaving the White House to Pence. I predict that Trump will never concede, but I sure as hell hope that Twitter closes his account and doesn't let him have a new one.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

Ignorant UK dweller here. I know that if Biden becomes president-elect he does not become the actual President until January next year. Is that also true of Senators? They are elected today/tomorrow/whenever, but when do they actually take their Senate seat? Is that January as well?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

I took my car in for work earlier, and have a loaner. I still need to go vote, but I needed coffee to do that. The moved the polling place. I'm guessing they needed to space things out more.

I anticipate (I hope for) a Biden win, and a whiney little baby reaction from Trump. Otherwise, it's just going to be interesting.

I remember that Nixon had staunch defenders right up until he resigned, and the truth came out. Good people admitted yeah, he really HAD been a crook. And then, there were some (Roger Stone?) who liked that he'd been a crook.

Even if Trump wins, if the House remains the same, and the Senate flips, he'll be fairly impotent. But he needs to go play golf for the rest of his life, however long that may be.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:42 AM

Ok we have climbed the ladder, now for the chute.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 20 - 09:28 AM

Just seen a FB post, “Go Trump!”, from a Friend in TX who also happens to be my ex-boss.

He’s history now, in every way. Disappointed, but not really surprised.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 12:52 PM

PT Barnum predicted a TRUMP WIN
"There's a sucker born every minute"

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 12:39 PM

Voter obsruction makes for longer lines especially in mixed or black areas.

Wait a month for certified results. Tommorow Trump declares victory and then starts his rigged election show with an army of lawyers.

If it goes to the supream court for a third time to decide the election he promised that his newest judge will elect him.

If he wins:

the campaign to criminalize the democratic party and make the country a one party nation will begin.

He will introduce an enabling act that will cement a legal dictatorship just like you know who.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 10:07 AM

It is not an excuse, there is nothing to be excused. It is a simple and obvious reason why lines are longer [not even counting the social distancing] than last time.

But not as long as when I went to vote for Obama the first time.

Tomorrow, tomorrow... You're only a day aawaaaaaaay

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 07:11 AM

The States that have a winner take all electoral votes rule instead of a proportional vote is a Republican invention.
I think 11 states have such a undemocratic winner take all rule.
The history of the electoral collge is eye opening.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 04:11 AM

States are gradually displacing the Electoral College by declaring how their representatives may vote (winner take all or proportional - more are going to proportional)

Unfortunately, doing this gradually causes problems as well. Suppose you win a state with 12 seats by a fair but not huge margin, and I only just win a state with 10. On the winner takes all, you get power with a 2 seat advantage. If they both are proportional, you get say 7 of yours, and I get 5. As I only just won mine, we get 5 each, and again you win with a 2 seat advantage. But if yours is proportional and mine is 'winner takes all', I get 5 of yours and 10 of mine, and end up with an 11 vote lead to take into the college.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 03:54 AM

A timely reminder, for anyone who has yet to vote...

Robb:Arrowsmith - ‘God and the Orange Clown’

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 09:22 PM

States are gradually displacing the Electoral College by declaring how their representatives may vote (winner take all or proportional - more are going to proportional).

Queueing to vote for hours in your country is time-honoured, especially in areas where there are lots of poor voters or black voters, the people who would most likely overwhelmingly vote democrat. That seems like a pretty deliberate ploy. "Covid" has nothing to do with it.

SARS-Cov-2 has a great deal to do with the delays now, and the GOP representatives who have reduced the number of poling places and who are trying to cheat to win have made it a lot worse. What is needed is a new version of the Voting Rights Act that was cancelled in the Bush administration, allowing all of the nonsense that is happening now. A new act would again allow federal oversight and stop the state party folks meddling.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 08:43 PM

I fully share your frustration, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 07:52 PM

Statistics about how many people can vote in X time period need to specify whether that is per machine or in one voting site. When we vote in person, there are about 12 booths in the room, with 2-3 tabulating machines to feed then into.

Once again I emphasize that the biggest problem with our elections... besides the outmoded electoral college... is that individual states can set times, days, registration rules, I.D. rules, etc..etc. that make fairness a matter of who runs that state's system.

   Our country grew gradually over a couple of centuries when special circumstances dictated how things were done. Now, communication and travel make it possible to put every state on a similar, if not identical, system of registration and voting.
*IF* the electoral college were gone, every citizen would have an equal say in who was president! Having 6-8 states determine the winner every 4 years is absurd!! I am sick of fretting about Florida and Ohio every time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 07:16 PM

"Only 2 people allowed in at a time for covid reasons. Usually about 25 people can vote at a time. That is one reason. Plus they are disinfecting between voters. That is another reason. So instead of 25 people voting roughly every 30 seconds, 50 per minute, 300 per hour we have 2 people voting roughly every 3 minutes, 8 people per hour. Or so.'

This is an excuse and I think you know it. Queueing to vote for hours in your country is time-honoured, especially in areas where there are lots of poor voters or black voters, the people who would most likely overwhelmingly vote democrat. That seems like a pretty deliberate ploy. "Covid" has nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 05:48 PM

It is being reported Trump may well declare victory before the mail-in votes are counted if he has a good lead on the in-person votes in most of the swing states. While this would have no legal validity, he can of course do it, on Twitter and elsewhere. What happens then, in your opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 03:59 PM

Its the same.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 12:15 PM

In UK, as long as someone joins the queue before the polling station closes, they can still vote. Is this the same in US?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Nov 20 - 09:23 AM

The day after tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:42 AM

I early voted by paper scan. 4 minute wait, smooth as silk.
However I did not know how to pay $4 for 15 minutes of parking at rhe community garage.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 11:16 AM

Only 2 people allowed in at a time for covid reasons. Usually about 25 people can vote at a time. That is one reason. Plus they are disinfecting between voters. That is another reason. So instead of 25 people voting roughly every 30 seconds, 50 per minute, 300 per hour we have 2 people voting roughly every 3 minutes, 8 people per hour. Or so.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 10:38 AM

How is it that you have so few places you can vote that people have to stand in a line for hours?

We have a higher percentage of people voting than you do in the States, and we don't have advance voting, it's on the day, if you don't use a postal vote, which I never have, and I've never had to wait more than a few minutes to vote in my life. Normally it's just walk in with no waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 07:23 PM

I'm gonna take my horse to the polling place
Gonna make sure my country's in the global race
Gonna wait in line till I can't no more
Gonna make my vote like I did for Gore

I'm gonna ride my horse past A R 15's
Past guys making sure that they look cold and mean
Gonna wait a month for the last result
While lil donnie trump makes his last insult

OO-OOOO-O OOO

They call the wind 'the liar'
They say it says 'you're fired'


Gonna face next year with a cup of Joe
Gonna hope the nazis will decide to go.
They got lots of friends in the pen today
Along with all the ass holes in the KKK

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 05:01 PM

Since the days of Diebold national elections and obstruction vote manipulation has not exceeded 10%. With all the post office games its not likely to be worse than 10% regionally. Putin's favorite insight is that the winner of an election is only up to those who count the votes. In America the manipulation of the vote count is not as bad as you think.
The assault on US voting is primarily getting to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 11:21 AM

Don't insult banana republics so.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM

The US procedures for elections is clearly a total shambles, not fir for purpose. How is it possible for figures about numbers of votes for particular candidates to be released until the complete vote is finished? So you get declarations about who has won in advance of the vote having been finished? It's the voting system of a banana republic.

Is there anybody determined to reform this corrupt process?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 20 - 04:16 AM

I see our shit-stirer in chief, Nigel Farage, and the loathsome Katie Hopkins have been in the US to support the Turnip.

Can you keep them please?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 10:57 PM

I would amend the US Constitution to rely
upon the popular vote on the 4th of July.

Primaries in January

voter obstruction will be
punished by incarceration

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 10:15 PM

The mistake Gore made was recounting just a couple of counties in Florida, if he'd asked to recount the entire state things would have been different. It wouldn't have been viewed as cherry-picking.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 09:47 PM

Republican Lawyers argued to stop the count and recount.
It was so ruled.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:27 PM

I don't know how "remember Bush" applies to this.
I'd like to believe he can't do it, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility, and the country's batshit crazy just now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:20 PM

Of course he can do that. Remember Bush?

6!

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 06:16 PM

He can't do that. He just thinks he can do that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

You should be able to find a local office to call. If it were me, I'd vote in person. The mail-in vote wasn't registered, so I be it'd work.

Just on CNN, they were saying Trump may try to limit the COUNTING of votes to not after election day. I don't know if he can do that, but he owns the Supreme court now. I personally think it's likely not going to matter.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM

My son got an Ohio notification that his mail in ballot has been disqualified for a lack of information. It said it could be corrected by Nov 15 but did not say if voting in person is an option.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: keberoxu
Date: 28 Oct 20 - 05:14 PM

... but the thing is,
election day will not be the end --
it will be the beginning of a counting period,
and with all the complications and ways it could be messed up,
who knows how long it will take
before an acceptable final count is announced?
Will it be weeks, or mere days?

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 09:26 AM

It is no longer "election day," it's the end of the Election Season. For which we all will be grateful, if people have come to their senses.

Subject: RE: BS: 2020 national election, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 09:07 AM

Oops miscounted. 8.