BS: UK Politics - Another Try

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 12:04 PM

"Not exactly a glowing bio, is it?"
Ah - but it's Tory - so yo have to respect them - or else - "Cummin, it's an unelected one-man QUANGO"
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 05:49 PM

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument,

For example below: Guido merely reports the news, yetis being attacked, whereas magic grandad is the news. Perhaps a difference too subtle for the less discerning. However the major sticking point for the left is highlighted in bold below. Guido is widely read by those in power. What the left do is of zero consequence. They are not in power, nor likely to be for the foreseable future
. Even his inability to stick to his ‘Business Information Studies’ degree course at Hull College of Higher Education (now part of the University of Lincoln) which he abandoned part-way through.
Corbyn began a course in Trade Union Studies at North London Polytechnic but left after a year without a degree after a series of arguments with his tutors over the curriculum.

From the press gazette:
(Press Gazette upholds the highest standards of ethical and professional journalism.)
January 23, 2020Lobby allows live reporting from Government briefing after Guido Fawkes tweets
November 11, 2019Guido Fawkes looking for new reporter after Sun
poaches Steven Edginton
October 28, 2019
Guido Fawkes hires journalist who helped expose UK diplomatic cables about Trump

August 27, 2019
Guido Fawkes news editor made special adviser to Jacob Rees-Mogg
May 28, 2019
Guido Fawkes founder behind campaign backing Boris Johnson's Tory leadership bid
July 9, 2018
Andrew Neil is MPs' favourite political journalist as Guido Fawkes, Evening Standard and Times among most read by those in power, poll finds
July 3, 2018
Guido Fawkes news editor Alex Wickham to join Buzzfeed UK politics team

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 07:07 PM

Hey, Iains, I see that your mentor Tommy Robinson is back in court again. Let's see how it goes, eh? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 07:31 PM

I mentioned that a few days ago, when tommy was arrested for violence again..

Not a peep from his mudcat fan club..

just a very telling meaningful silence...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 07:35 PM

Ps.. I notice it's only ever right wingers with a track record for insults and abuse,
who resort to moaning about ad hominen attacks
whenever they are stumbling back falling flat on their arses in a debate..

even more sheer hypocrisy...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Mar 20 - 07:50 PM

Looking at that resume I'd say he's earned the moniker "Skivee" Staines.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 05:01 AM

genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument,

...


an opinion piece written by a chappie with a qualification in hotel
management from worcestersghire university

Just saying.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 05:11 AM

Don't expect consistency from this poster Dave
Just saying what everybody knows already
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:10 AM

I wasn’t sure whether to post this here, or in the ‘pandemic’ thread. It’s a bit of both, but I’m putting it here. Apologies for the lengthy C&P - It’s a C&P, because I don’t know who wrote it, and I don’t want to give away the personal details of the person who shared it. It makes sense to me...

Not my words but bang on the money......

”Coronavirus has revealed painful political truths in a way that nothing in our lifetimes has done before.

We were told that care workers were ‘unskilled’, that we didn’t need them in the way we need bankers or doctors.
Now we see that they are one of our most important lines of defence in a global health crisis.

We were told we could divide our country from other countries and thrive in splendid isolation.
Now we discover that we are intrinsically connected to our neighbours, and that if a vaccination is developed we will need the cooperation of other countries to access it as quickly as possible.

We were told that a zero hours, gig-based economy where workers must continue to be productive even if they are ill would be to the benefit of all of us.
Now we see that putting work before health costs lives.

We were told that refugees and migrants would bring disease into our country.
Now we discover that wealthy travellers are much more mobile, and therefore much more likely to fuel epidemics.

We were told that our National Health Service could be whittled away and dismantled in the name of money.
Now we discover that without the NHS, we will have no money.

Nothing reveals truth as powerfully as vulnerability.

Whereas the right likes to think that we can build elaborate ivory towers and separate ourselves from others, the left has now been proven correct in its belief that - whether we like it or not - our fate is always bound up in the fate of other people, even if they live on the other side of the world.

Human beings are not separate from each other, we ARE each other.
Human beings are not separate from the economy, we ARE the economy.

A robust public health service is not a luxury that we pay for if we can, it is the very foundation of wealth and security.

Unfortunately, these lessons may have come too late to save us. Hopefully not.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:13 AM

Interesting post baccie
Sometimes it needs a problem to concentrate the mind and examine priorities
I refuse to be panicked by any of this but I do hope lessons are learned
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:35 AM

Hopefully the current health crisis will pass with sad but not catastrophic consequences. The cynic in me says that if this happens, Johnson (or should I say Cummings) will spin it so he comes out smelling of roses. I also suspect that the right wing will blame communist China and, by implication, Jeremy Corbyn.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 08:54 AM

communist China and, by implication, Jeremy Corbyn.
Don't forget the Muslims - at least the 300 active ones who are probably already doing so
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 09:18 AM

On thursday morning the Irish TD announced that all schools and events involving mote than 200 people would be closed from the end of the day
The British Government have just announced that the same thing will happen a week from now weeks
?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 11:22 AM

Pfr reasoned argument is entitled to reasoned responses.
Putting up unattributed opinion pieces does not deserve a response.

Repeatedly Putting up suggestions that members of the legal professions
ridicule becomes tiresome. Requisitioning in the UK has only occurred in wartime, compulsory purchase can take years and would be fought in the courts. How many times do these arguments have to be repeated.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40303142

If you want serious discussion make serious poitns (with links.) How can you be taken seriously when the attack is always on the messenger, not the message.
If you want reasoned discussion quote facts and reasons, not cheap political shots at Boris.
Reasons for not closing schools:

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51874084

and more facts concerning readiness and the NHS

ttps://www.businessinsider.com/best-prepared-countries-for-a-pandemic-still-not-that-prepared-2020-3?r=US&IR=T#2-united-kingdom-

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 12:48 PM

which reminds me..

far righters are constantly playing the victim card,
feeling sorry for themselves,
with never ending loud self pitying rants about attacks on their freedoms from bullying leftists and liberals..

Whilst at the same time gratuitously insulting their opponents as weak snowflakes
who are always playing the victim-hood card....

sheer hypocrisy.. yet again...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:12 PM

What else do you expect, PFR? They have learned well from Goebbels. Accuse your enemies of your own sins.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:34 PM

Accuse your enemies of your own sins.
Was that aimed at Iains, or at pfr?
And if one, why not the other?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:41 PM

I dunno, Nigel. I don't think either were about when Goebbels said it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:43 PM

Nigel - I have a very acute sense of self awareness.
I am my own most diligent critic..

So I hope that I rarely if ever give anyone any justifiable reason to accuse me of hypocrisy...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 02:47 PM

Likewise, I'd also dread to think anyone ever thought I was pedantic...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 04:25 PM

Time for some pure comedy from some actors! (headline from the Guardian)
The entire race equality committee of Equity has resigned in protest after the actors’ union apologised on its behalf for criticising Laurence Fox’s views on race and paid an out-of-court settlement to the actor after he threatened to sue them for libel.
It was either resign or be held to account in the courts. The luvvies were losers either way.
Their woke twitterings were:
out of order
unapproved by Equity
clearly libellous

Interesting that equity paid up sharpish, obviously worried the threat of libel action might grow wings

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 05:01 PM

Who was Mr Fox before all this..
Anyone remember seeing him act in anything...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 20 - 06:29 PM

no i had never heard of him, now the actor who played arthur daley he was good especially with the line"ternce the world is your lobster"

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 04:19 AM

Laurence Fox is a detective in the popular TV crime drama "Lewis". He has also appeared in several other films, plays an TV programs. IMDB is your friend.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 04:26 AM

Yes, he is one of the many members of the Fox family who are actors, mainly in UK TV, but some films.

Edward Fox
James Fox
Robert Fox
Laurence Fox
Emilia Fox
Freddie Fox

... spring to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 05:28 AM

The responses are very careful to concentrate on the man, not his actions. This speaks volumes to a woke analyst.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 06:05 AM

The percentage of people in Britain who admit to holding and openly expressing racist views make it inevitable that events occur - and are necessary
I rthought we'd left the world of "bogtrotters" and ""T'ick" Paddies when |Bernad Mannig dies - until I came here Iain's
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:19 AM

The percentage of people in Britain who admit to holding and openly expressing racist views make it inevitable that events occur - and are necessary

OH DEAR!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:49 AM

"OH DEAR!!!!!!!!"
My feelings exactly - between a third and a quater of the population is a little distressing (and that's from the Tory Daily Mail)
You have long relinquished your right to comment on racism in Britain goiven your primitive hatred of 'Bogtrotters' and "thieving", slave-owning Travellers"
Jim Carroll (a Brit living in the bogs)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:34 AM

Did this thread make any sense for a short while between last night and this afternoon...???

If deletions have rendered it hard to follow what was argued about, well that's the norm...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:31 PM

Hey, Iains, I see that your mentor Tommy Robinson is back in court again. Let's see how it goes, eh? :-)

Hardly my mentor, idiot. However the story behind the altercation is:
A Pervert sexually assaulted TommyRobinson‘s 8 year-old daughter in a kids swimming pool and the Police turned up 3 hours later and arrest Robinson for restraining the Paedophile.
Rather a different story to that put out in the MSM. We will have to see how it pans out in the courts will we not?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:41 PM

That story behind the altercation wouldn't be Tommy's version of events would it...???

How sober was he at the time...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 07:50 PM

Anyway, it's clear to see why UK white nationalists are now promoting Fox as their new poster boy..

He's celebrity minor 'royalty', more publicly acceptable,
and so far less of an embarrassing self destructive liability
than the likes of Tommy and Sargon...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:55 PM

Robinson was arrested for assaulting a man he accused of molesting his daughter - the police found no evidence that he had
The only newspapers yo report Iain's version are racist publications and blogs (obviously where he gets most of his ideas)
One I tried to open was blocked by my security programme with a warning
At least we know wheer Iain's gets his information now
Jim Carroll

This is the story in full
After Stephen Yaxley Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson, got himself arrested following a fracas at the Center Parcs resort in Woburn Forest, he and his fans have been pushing their narrative, insisting that the altercation began after a middle-aged man grabbed Lennon’s eight-year-old daughter’s backside in the children’s swimming pool.

The problem for this narrative is that the “children’s swimming pool” claim, along with the accusations of “Paedophile” and “Nonce” thrown at the bloke with whom Lennon had his altercation, have turned out to be at least unproven, and at worst plain flat wrong. The result is that The Great Man is still up on a Common Assault charge early next month.

Still, the narrative had to be pushed, however pointless the task, and so it came to pass that Lennon’s fan site TR News told readers yesterday “Tommy received a call from Detective Sergeant Hancock on Wednesday. Pro-Paedophile Policing - Or Just Plain Negligence?” Phoning Lennon is now “Pro-Paedophile Policing”? Steady on.


There is more. “Bedfordshire Police officers dutifully arrested a father for the ‘crime’ of protecting his daughter and the ‘crime’ of stopping a suspected paedophile from escaping justice. The ‘would be nonce’ (child molester) was not cautioned or arrested by Bedfordshire Police officers; he was simply ‘let go’. If the modus operandi of Police forces up and down the UK are influenced by media reports of Tommy Robinson then the UK is in dire straights [sic] indeed”. As Sir Sean nearly said, I think we got the point.

But do go on. “During a follow-up call from DS Hancock, it became pretty clear that as far as he was concerned, the only reason Bedfordshire Police would arrest the ‘would be nonce’ is if there was CCTV or witnesses to the sexual assault of a minor”. Is that a problem? “Police officers do not ‘need’ evidence to arrest anyone … Police only need ‘reasonable grounds’ to make an arrest”. Yeah, like CCTV footage.

But while Lennon’s fan site is blustering “Bedfordshire Police have proven without any doubt in our minds, they were more interested in the political scalp of Tommy Robinson, protecting paedophiles and dismissing the allegations of an eight-year-old girl”, they are managing not to address his rapidly unravelling story.

The Tweeter known as Aunty Fah has addressed it: “the alleged sexual assault did not happen in a children's pool but the Wild Water Rapids … The Wild Water Rapids are not just for children but for both adults and children. When Robinson started ranting about men without children being at Centre Parcs the officer told him that was irrelevant, they are not just for families, having children is not a condition of entry”. There was more.

“The police officer rang Robinson to give him an update on the investigation into Robinson's allegation, he told him that the police now have the CCTV footage and are reviewing it, are talking to Centre Parcs staff and have appealed for witnesses, Robinson was so busy ranting … he later demanded to know whether the police had CCTV footage”.

Stephen Yaxley Lennon is still up on a Common Assault charge on April 2nd. He should count himself lucky that the cops are giving his claims the benefit of the doubt.

And if the CCTV doesn’t stand up that claim, he might be in even more trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 09:06 PM

Well, we already know that Iains loves a good criminal...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 09:37 PM

It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 10:44 PM

"It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums."

Well at least you agree with us about tommy fan sites...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 11:08 PM

btw.. I don't do cult of personality / hero worshiping..

So if I were a right winger I'd drop tommy like the washed-up 'yesterday's man' he is...

You all had better hope Laurence Fox works out better as your new poster boy...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:29 AM

(sorry, html tags fixed)

There are reports Trump is trying to buy exclusive access to a potential coronavirus, probably by buying the German firm (report). As you would expect Germany is resisting. I could see the EU passing a rule unusually quickly to block any such sales of any company to ensure the EU countries get first call on any vaccine produced in the EU.

Come Jan 2021, if not before, that would see the UK excluded from the EU protection and bidding for the vaccine against the economic might of the US and China. According to a leaked report the UK might still be affected by the crisis during the first quarter of 2021. This would certainly fit with reports in early March that the vaccine might take a year to get to market.

No one during "project fear" predicted precisely this, but many predicted the UK being squeezed between the EU and the other big players like the US and China, and that could certainly happen.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 07:47 AM

"It is a matter for the courts to decide not idiots posting on internet forums."
FINGERS CROSSED EH ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 08:59 AM

There are reports Trump is trying to buy exclusive access to a potential coronavirus, probably by buying the German firm (report). As you would expect Germany is resisting. I could see the EU passing a rule unusually quickly to block any such sales of any company to ensure the EU countries get first call on any vaccine produced in the EU.

Come Jan 2021, if not before, that would see the UK excluded from the EU protection and bidding for the vaccine against the economic might of the US and China. According to a leaked report the UK might still be affected by the crisis during the first quarter of 2021. This would certainly fit with reports in early March that the vaccine might take a year to get to market.

No one during "project fear" predicted precisely this, but many predicted the UK being squeezed between the EU and the other big players like the US and China, and that could certainly happen.

If that proved to be true, it could also mean that (in retaliation) the US could put mainland Europe at the back of the queue for any vaccine produced by the US. So, "come January 2021" we could be in a better situation than if we had remained.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:13 AM

We will see what happens in the first quarter of 2021, Nigel, but I think the option I outlined is rather more likely than yours. We will see what price such vaccines are from Germany to other EU countries and compare it with any US prices being offered. Of course the first effective vaccine might come from somewhere else - Asia, for instance.

But thank you for responding anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 09:41 AM

If Trump were to try something like that I hope Americans would force his hand to prevent him from the attempt, because we all know he is only in the White House to enrich himself, not to help others.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Mossback
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 10:55 AM

If Trump were to try something like that...

Trump DID try EXACTLY that. And no, Amerkuns of the Trumpist persuasion don't give a shit or think it was a great thing for him to do.

Heil Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 02:31 PM

IS THIS LIKELY TO CHANGE BECAUSE THERE'S A CRISIS ?
Past experience, even in my lifetime, proves it will only worsen with the present "Ding-ding, I'm on the bus" Tory philosophy

CRISIS - WHAT CRISIS !!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 02:38 PM

Spain nationalises private health care

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Iains
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 02:52 PM

Iains - the private health corporations would as a gesture of goodwill
in a time of national crisis.
try running that one past the shareholders! Get real!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:05 PM

Real..??? - I am, and fully understand the selfish arseholes would get in a right proper tizzy about the idea..

That's why my suggestion was very obvious sarcasm...


Now then.. Nationalisation in times of emergency.. hmmm...

Boris and his master dom, better not take their new Northern working class vote
too much for granted as the crisis progressively worsens,
and affects them disproportionately badly
compared to more affluent neighbours...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:22 PM

School closings are inevitable. One way or teacherless other.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Politics - Another Try
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Mar 20 - 03:33 PM

"Try running that one past the shareholders! Get real!"
Says it all really - which is why the main parties dipped out as badly as they did and Independent's like 'People Before Profit" did so well
We've always known that the English are up their own wallets
Jim Carroll