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Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11

EBarnacle 24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 21 - 12:05 AM
EBarnacle 25 Jun 21 - 12:09 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jun 21 - 12:13 AM
Joe Offer 25 Jun 21 - 02:39 AM
DaveRo 25 Jun 21 - 02:48 AM
Joe Offer 25 Jun 21 - 03:49 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 04:56 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 05:32 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 06:45 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:05 AM
Nick 25 Jun 21 - 07:09 AM
Jos 25 Jun 21 - 07:13 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 21 - 08:27 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 09:00 AM
DaveRo 25 Jun 21 - 11:01 AM
Bill D 25 Jun 21 - 11:17 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 03:21 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM
GUEST 25 Jun 21 - 04:04 PM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 04:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 21 - 07:40 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jun 21 - 09:37 PM
gnu 25 Jun 21 - 10:43 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jun 21 - 11:35 PM
Richard Mellish 26 Jun 21 - 05:55 AM
Sandra in Sydney 26 Jun 21 - 06:06 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 26 Jun 21 - 06:52 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 07:44 AM
Bonzo3legs 26 Jun 21 - 08:33 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 08:49 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 09:37 AM
DaveRo 26 Jun 21 - 09:56 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 10:22 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 11:04 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jun 21 - 11:19 AM
DaveRo 26 Jun 21 - 11:31 AM
punkfolkrocker 26 Jun 21 - 11:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jun 21 - 11:57 AM
Bill D 26 Jun 21 - 12:51 PM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 12:55 PM
DaveRo 26 Jun 21 - 01:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 26 Jun 21 - 02:41 PM
punkfolkrocker 30 Jun 21 - 01:02 AM
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Subject: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM

Remember when we were told that Windows 10 was the final version and the rest would just be updates? I just got a notice in my email that they're introducing Windows 11. The note said nothing about it being a free update. We're probably going to end up paying through the nose for this one.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:05 AM

This has been breaking news since downloads of a dodgy beta leaked a few days ago.
I read a press release just now stating 11 would be free update
for 10 users..

Obviously needs fact checking...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:09 AM

I don't know about the free part but I do know that some of my laptops will not be upgradeable.
They are also promising that Windows 10 will be supported into 2025. Of course, we know how well Microsoft keeps promises.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:13 AM

There is a newer version of Win10 coming out, and people who have the Home version of Win10 may be coming to the end of the support if they were an early adopter. They may need to upgrade. Pro versions are doing just fine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:39 AM

I rely most on the news reports from cwnet. They seem to tell the story straight. Here's what they have to say:

I have one computer that had Windows 7 when I bought it, but it has been running Windows 10. I wonder if it will work with the upgrade.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:48 AM

The main thing that may affect people here is that it won't run on 32-bit processors - which will mainly be old (probably more than 10 years old) laptops and notebooks.

Also some old (non-uefi) 64-bit computers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:49 AM

I kinda like getting new operating systems, especially if they have useful features and still run all the software. Most of the time, I've found new operating systems to be a nice way to refresh an old computer. I get a new Android operating system on my phone every year or so, and that's been fun.
So I'm hoping that this new Windows 11 will help me solve my biggest computer problem - how to find stuff on my computer. I'd like photos and documents and spreadsheets and recordings to be easy to find. And in all the years I've had computers (since 1988), that has been a perennial problem.
A previous version of Windows had libraries, and that seemed to be a pretty good idea - but it got confusing at times and now Windows 10 only half-heartedly supports it.
Guess I'll wait and see.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:56 AM

But surely you can open folders where ever you want them in Windows 10???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:32 AM

As my laptop's memory is close to full, I've been googling every few months or so to see if a new operating system may come out, towards buying a new computer; but, thinking it was not going to happen, bought a 60GB SDXC memory card last year, which I have been saving this year's photos on...it seems, probably along with many others, I now have a dilemma...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 06:45 AM

Do you have SSD drive? The increased speed in our 16 years old laptop is remarkable, and is now happily running Windows 10!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM

Yes, Bonzo - but only 120 GB (they expect us to use cloud storage, I think) with only 16.5 GB left (I think we are supposed to leave about that much for updates, etc.). Thus, I added the above 60 GB card.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:05 AM

...I also have everything stored on a couple of memory sticks in my bag, such that, if anything happened to my flat/laptop, all would not be lost.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Nick
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:09 AM

Joe - I'm a big fan of Everything and use it to find things on my machine rather than any windows search


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jos
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:13 AM

Just as long as you don't lose your bag ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:15 AM

Jos - for that and something to go wrong with my flat/computer on the same outing/day would be extremely unlucky, yes?!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:27 AM

Having experienced serious problems updating to free Windows 10 when it was first released,
I rolled back to win 8.1..

Since then I am now running two PCs and two laptops on win 8.1.

Do I really want the aggravation of updating them to Windows 10,
so they can be then updated free to 11...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:00 AM

I've checked and it seems Windows 11 will be free for those with Windows 10, as PFR says.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:01 AM

I ran the Windows 11 Health Check app (link in Joe's CNET post) on my wife's Thinkpad L430, a 'business' laptop which I though would run Win 11. It is perhaps 8 years old and has a 64-bit processor. (I recently put an SSD in it.)

The Health Check app said no, but didn't say why not. I suspected the reason is that Win 11 requires a TPM (Trusted Platform Module) version 2. I followed the procedure HERE to check that and discovered that the laptop has version 1.2

TPM v2 was released in 2014 but laptops with v1.2 may have been sold after that date.

So it looks like Windows 10 really will be the last version for many machines ;)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:17 AM

Joe- ".. - how to find stuff on my computer"

The absolutely best way I've found is a little program called
http://indexyourfiles

It very quickly uses a basic internal database to..ummm..index the files.

All I have to do is tell it which drives (or external drives) to search and give it a key word or phrase. Results are almost instant.

It has saved me many, many times... especially song titles or lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM

I don't bother but, if someone tends to remember roughly when they created folders and they have a lot, names can be started with year, month then day - e.g., 2021.06.25


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:21 PM

I 've downloaded the Win11 iso, and will try to do an upgrade from Win7 Enterprise on a 16 years old PC!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM

...and, if that works, Bonzo may move on to the Tasmanian tiger, closely followed by the dodo...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:04 PM

Bonz - is that the first version proper release ISO, or still a beta ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:11 PM

I see what you mean!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:40 PM

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/windows-11-home-and-pro

TechRadar in-depth report on what to expect from win 11..

Looks like it won't be released officially until much later this year...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:37 PM

C|Net is where I get a lot of my tech news also, Joe. I'll have to look into this - the main thing I DON'T want is an automatic upgrade to the new system. I'd like them to work out a few of the bugs first.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 10:43 PM

Well, they still aren't finished working out the bugs in WIN 10, SRS. Bothers me greatly, but I don't have the $$$ for an Apple, and I am not tech savvy enough for other OSs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:35 PM

Apple is for zealots. :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 05:55 AM

My computer guru advises "Basically the min spec for W11 is crazy over-the-top (I think there may be a climb-down from MS, but we'll see) as even high spec PCs don't qualify"
and
"as things stand, W11 is essentially a cash-grab for the PC industry (or so it seems to me) and a push by MS to require online accounts (a number of features are locked behind an arbitrary MS account requirement)."

Anyway Micro$oft say they're continuing support for Win 10 for a few years yet, so we can afford to wait and see what happens.

All the changes to the user interface seem another instance of Micro$oft's general policy of "if it ain't broke, mess about with it anyway, and if it confuses users that's their problem".


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 06:06 AM

well said, Richard - "if it ain't broke, mess about with it anyway, and if it confuses users that's their problem".

That also applies so Google's "upgrade" of Blogger to make it easier for folk who blog short, instant updates on their phones - look at my kid/dog/garden - hell for the rest of us who create larger articles with lots of text & pics.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 06:52 AM

Yes, Sandra - can't remember if it was early this year or late last, but recall the changes to Blogger required considerably different processes to edit, etc., which took me a while to fathom, frankly.

That said, I think it is a good choice for anyone who wishes for their own site on the web - free (unlike some hosts that are only free for a limited number of visits) and if, unlike me, you wish to go pro and add ads, it still seems easy to do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 07:44 AM

Did you mean TPM 2.0 rather than 2.1 above, Dave.

I just had a look at what it would mean to me (not that I want Windows on our main PCs).

My (I guess about 5 or 6 year old) ASUS laptop has TPM 2.0.

I’ve only looked at my own PC (Gigabyte 970A-DS3P BIOS dated in 2015) but all 3 PCs in regular use here are of similar AMD970 chipset build and age. Mine doesn’t have TPM support but should have a socket on the motherboard to take a TPM module. Gigabyte offer a few modules for their motherboards but I don’t think I’d find a 2.0 one for mine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 08:33 AM

The Windows 11 ISO is 4,760,306kb, so it won't burn to a DVD and it won't copy to a FAT32 formatted USB. So you either need ISO shrink software or format a USB drive to NTFS!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 08:49 AM

A dual layer DVD?

Perhaps when all else fails, there is always the good old dd found as std on most Linux systems but be warned it will just take what you tell it to do without warning.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 09:37 AM

Oh, and, it is mentioned in my link but balena Ethcher is a pretty good cross platform (Linux, Windows and Mac) tool for getting ISOs onto USB drives.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 09:56 AM

Jon Freeman wrote: Did you mean TPM 2.0 rather than 2.1 above, Dave.
That puzzled me! A sans font and proportional spacing probably contributed to your question ;)

I've looked into it further. It seems MS are saying you need an 8th Generation processor to run Windows 11. Who on earth knows what generation their processor is? Anyway after a lot googling I discovered that the Thinkpad is 3rd Generation and that 8th Generation CPUs were introduced in 2017; see here. As Richard said, that requirement might be relaxed (I think they might drop it to 7th gen, which was the first processor that only supports Win 10) but I don't see the requirement for TPM 2 changing.

I think this new version of Windows is mainly driven by Microsoft's strategy of converging traditional desktops/laptops and touch/mobile devices. Also, I suspect, to simplify the code by dropping stuff inherited from earlier versions - like 32-bit processors. (Though it'll still run 32-bit programs, so Simple Piano should still work :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 10:22 AM

LOL Dave. 2.1 was my misreading of your post which just gives version 2.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:04 AM

At a quick attempt, CPU generation seems to me to be maker dependent. New AMD Ryzen processors appear to be at generation 4 but in Intel terms, generation 4 could take us back to 2013,

I think...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:19 AM

Looks like it will soon be time for another crash course in computing.

As a related topic, I was setting up a new tablet last week and the Google/Android part asked for my registered FIDO (I use Yubico) that I've used with full-sized computers for several years now. The tablet had only the micro USB plug, so I used another authentication method and got a code from my phone Authenticator. I ended up shopping around and picking up a converter female USB down to the male micro USB and the class C for phones and tablets. This isn't the first small device to ask for this, and I've been meaning to find a converter.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:31 AM

Jon: I should have said Intel Generation 8. Windows 11 requires "8th Gen Intel Core or 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen".

It doesn't mention other processor manufacturers. IBM for example make their POWER9 cpu as used in the powerful, and expensive, Talos II.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:33 AM

Registered Fido...???

What.. the world is getting weirder..

.. we need dog licences to run a computer now...!!!???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:57 AM

Two-factor authentication. Yubico. There is one on my keychain in my pocket. They're pretty durable. I used it on my computer at work and at home starting several years ago. Fast IDentity Online


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 12:51 PM

refresh... hoping Joe Offer saw my answer to his local search problem


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 12:55 PM

Thanks Dave. That CPU spec would count everything here out. I'm pretty sure my laptop is an Intel (apparently 6th generation) Skylake, and the PCs are pre AMD socket 4 Ryzen.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 01:37 PM

SRS; Do the Yubico key and the tablet have NFC?

This Google Pixel C tablet doesn't, despite it being a top-end device in its day. Pixel phones generally do. Perhaps it's because the main use is probably e-payments and peope don't use tablets to pay for things.

This is all related to the requirement for TPM chips in Windows 11 - secure authentication of the user and holding 2FA keys.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 02:41 PM

We can only hope that Microsoft are remembering to provide a stable and reliable operating system for musicians and graphics artists.

It's only in the last year or so that major music software developers are forcing upgrades that are only supported on win 10...

That will be the win 10 that many musicians including myself have rejected as too unstable...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 01:02 AM

Win 11 pisses off consumers


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 12:45 PM

I have a big desk with two computers. One is old and runs on Windows 7. It is not connected to the Internet but does a beautiful job with MIDI software and Noteworthy Composer. The other is on Windows 10 and handles all our online activities.

When I want to transfer data between computers, I use a thumbdrive.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 02:15 PM

do you have malware protection on either of your computers?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 03:11 PM

There is a transfer cable with software built into it (the big end is basically a drive with the installed software). I also have a non-Internet computer on the next desk in my office, and I run the transfer cable between the two. The fat end is on the Internet connected computer. Anyway, the software is installed on both (EasySuite) and you open it on both devices then get the local and remote screen on both. I drag stuff back and forth between the two regularly (the old computer has the newer computer software that I can't replace without subscribing for Adobe monthly service, so I do a lot of my photo and design work there, and drag the results into the newer computer.) Radio Shack makes a good one that I got on sale from them a couple of years ago. I see that Amazon sells Radio Shack's cable much cheaper.


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