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Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South

DigiTrad:
SCEW BALL (STEWBALL)
SKEWBALL
SKEWBALL (4)
STEWBALL
STEWBALL (3)


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Lighter 12 Aug 22 - 09:54 AM
cnd 12 Aug 22 - 12:38 PM
leeneia 12 Aug 22 - 12:44 PM
Lighter 12 Aug 22 - 01:10 PM
Lighter 12 Aug 22 - 01:12 PM
cnd 13 Aug 22 - 08:35 AM
Reinhard 13 Aug 22 - 09:35 AM
Lighter 13 Aug 22 - 02:39 PM
leeneia 13 Aug 22 - 03:29 PM
Lighter 13 Aug 22 - 04:46 PM
cnd 14 Aug 22 - 11:38 AM
leeneia 17 Aug 22 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,henryp 17 Aug 22 - 04:44 PM
GeoffLawes 17 Aug 22 - 05:49 PM
GeoffLawes 17 Aug 22 - 05:54 PM
leeneia 18 Aug 22 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,henryp 18 Aug 22 - 04:05 PM
leeneia 19 Aug 22 - 01:02 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 09:54 AM

John Mason Brown, “Songs of the Slave,” Lippincott’s Magazine (Dec., 1868), p. 622:

Many years ago there originated a negro ballad, founded on the incidents of a famous horse-race, on which large sums were staked. Its popularity among the negroes in the slave-holding States was very great, and it was their nearest approach to an epic. It was generally sung in a chanting style, with marked emphasis and the prolongation of the concluding syllable of each line. The tenor of the narrative indicates that ‘The Gal-li-ant Gray Mar’’ was imported from Virginia to Kentucky to beat the ‘Noble Skewball,’ and the bard is evidently a partisan of the latter. The commencement of the narrative is in approved invocatory style:

       Oh, ladies and gentlemen, come one and come all;
       Did you ever hear tell of the Noble Skewball?

And the author plunges at once in medias res, and presents to his auditors, regardless of rhyme, a view of the crowded race-course:
   
       When the day was app’inted for Skewball to run,
       The horses was ready, the people did come—
       Some from old Virginny, some from Tennessee,
       Some from Alabama, and from everywhere.
        
The general reader will probably not feel interested in the preparation for the great race and in the descriptions given of the horses, riders, and owners and the thread of the ballad may be given in short space. The owner of the ‘Noble Skewball’ thus instructs his jockey:
      
       Stick close to your saddle, and don’t be alarmed.
       For you shall not be jostled by the Noble Skewball!

and appeals confidently to the umpire—

       Squire Marvin, Squire Marvin, just judge my horse well,
       For all that I want is to see justice done.

At the signal—
                  
       When the horses was saddled and the word was give’, Go!
       Skewball shot like a arrow just out o’ a bow!

And during the early part of the race the listener is assured,
                        
       If you had a-been there at the first running round,
       You’d a-swore by your life that they never totch ground.

The excitement of the spectators, and the lavish betting of the friends of the ‘Noble Skewball’ and the ‘Gal-li-ant Gray Mar’,’ are minutely described, and the listener hurried by a current of incident to the grand climax—the triumph of the ‘Noble Skewball’ and the payment of the stakes. The poetic fire is cooled down gradually through a dozen or more concluding couplets, the last of which proposes
                     
       A health to Miss Bradley, that gal-li-ant Gray Mar’,
       Likewise to the health of the Noble Skewball!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: cnd
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 12:38 PM

Interesting. I'd always thought of Skewball as a distinctly Western song. I guess it wouldn't be the first to be shifted that way. Though I suppose in the end it makes total sense for a horse racing song to come from the upper South


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 12:44 PM

Yes, thanks Lighter. That is interesting. It's unusual the way some lines rhyme nicely and other lines don't rhyme at all.

I for one would be interested in the entire song, no matter what the people at the magazine thought.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 01:10 PM

In that case, Carter, here's Skewball back in the days of long esses:

https://tinyurl.com/4xtvvebt

And here's Andy Irvine's Irish rendition witha talking Skewball:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNcEgTTCXY


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 01:12 PM

Leeneia, that was pretty typical of mid-19th century comments on trad songs.

They were thought so clumsy and naive that most often only the interesting lines (if any!) were quoted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: cnd
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 08:35 AM

Sorry, Jonathan, it looks like your TinyURL didn't work... it just gives me a redirect error


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Reinhard
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 09:35 AM

Maybe it's this: A new song, called Skewball (Harding B 25(1784))


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 02:39 PM

Thanks, Reinhard. That's it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 03:29 PM

Thanks for helping out with the link, Reinhard.

The Bodleian ballad calls the horse Skewball, a skewbald horse being brown and white. It also has the line about their feet never touching the ground. At the start of the ballad, Skewball is a she, but later changes to he.

The DH tells me that to bet money on a horse is to bet that it will win, while to lay money means you think the horse will lose. Thus, the line where Skewball's owner, Squire Mirvin, says "for I will lay thousands on famous Skewball" has it backwards. Squire Mirvin should bet, not lay, money on Skewball.

It's interesting that the horses are referred to as cattle. And the printer has a bad time with the plains of Kildare, spelling them three different ways.

Working with the DH I have typed this old version out, if anybody's interested.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 04:46 PM

The earliest reference I've found to "Stewball" by that name:

Atlanta Journal (June 28, 1931):

"Slaves wus bettin' and singin'

Stewball was a racer,
Mollie was, too."


And neither Oxford nor Merriam-Webster distinguish "lay" from "bet."

"Lay" is from the 14th century, to "bet" from roughly 1600.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: cnd
Date: 14 Aug 22 - 11:38 AM

Interesting, thanks!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 12:12 PM

"Lay betting is an option on exchanges like Betfair where bettors can play the role of the bookmaker and back something not to happen."

For example, lay money on Skewball not winning.

from mybettingsites.co.uk
==========================
I read the poem at the Mudcat Singaround on Monday. People seemed to like it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 04:44 PM

It wasn't betting with a bookmaker. Two wealthy racehorse owners would simply put their stakes in the hands of a third party. Their horses would race against each other and the winner would take all.

At Newmarket the Jockey Club established a dominant role. Many of its races were high-stakes matches made between two wealthy owners. Such wagers potentially combined racing rivalries, power politics, social rank, informed sociability, and the social display of the match-maker’s prowess, wealth, status and masculinity, as he demonstrated his judgement about the horse’s qualities relative to the one he had chosen to match it against.

Not all of them were honest. When Daniel Defoe visited in the 1720s, he was shocked at the way the nobility and gentry were ‘busy in what is called the sharping part of the sport, of wagers and bets’, trying to ‘circumvent one another and […] pick one another’s pockets […] to the indelible shame of men of rank and quality’. [digitens.org]

In a famous match with Mr. Cookson's Diamond over the four-mile Beacon Course at Newmarket on 25 March 1799, Hambletonian, ridden by Francis Buckle, won by a neck in a time of 7 minutes 15 seconds. He is said to have covered 21 feet in a single stride at the finish. Sir Henry [Vane-Tempest] had wagered 3,000 guineas on the outcome.

The horse was afterwards the subject of the painting, Hambletonian, Rubbing Down, by the great equine artist, George Stubbs, who was then 75 years old. In 1800 Hambletonian won his only start in the Great Subscription Purse for six-year-olds and over at York. [Wikipedia]

Harry Ogden became the first-ever bookmaker in 1795 when he laid the odds and took bets at the Newmarket horse races. Before Harry Ogden, however, the types of wager were very different from what we have nowadays. For one thing bets would generally be offered on one particular horse (the Favourite), against the field. There being only two outcomes these were generally even-money bets, and the wagers were made between individuals rather than being administered by a `turf accountant’. [telescoper]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 05:49 PM

Mainly Norfolk:Skewbald / Skewball / Stewball / Old Kimball     https://mainlynorfolk.info/lloyd/songs/skewball.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 05:54 PM

Many Recordings of " Old Kimball " on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Old+Kimball


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 11:54 AM

"Hambletonian" That word takes me back to age ten, when I devoured Marguerite Henry's fiction about horses. I must have encountered the word in the book 'Born to Trot.' I never knew the first Hambletonian was a horse.
=====
The Hambletonian Stakes is a major American harness race for three-year-old trotting horses, named in honor of Hambletonian 10, a foundation sire of the Standardbred horse breed, also known as the "Father of the American Trotter."   -- from wikipedia

Henryp, thanks for the info about betting in the olden days. It certainly sheds light on how the impoverished noble families of present-day novels got that way.
======
In the 1794 version which Reinhard linked above, the two owners (Squire Mirvin and Sir Rafe Gore) make a huge wager, but the public bets also.

   The time being come and the cattle [horses] led out
   the people came flocking from east, west and south.
   To beat all the sportsmen I vow and declare
   they'd enter their money all on the grey mare.

It's funny how some things persist. 250 years later, the grey mare is still grey.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 04:05 PM

In the Hambletonian/Diamond match, each side wagered 3,000 guineas, half to be forfeited if one withdrew. The match was run in 1799 and by then bookmakers offered odds on each horse too.

A match was staged at Newmarket, over their 4 mile straight Beacon course, on Monday 25 March 1799. The famous Beacon course starts 5 miles from Newmarket and continues in a straight line to the winning post which is a mile from Newmarket town centre. This match, still common even in the late 18th century, was between Durham landowner Sir Harry Vane-Tempest's Hambletonian (1792-1818)and the horse-breeder Joseph Cookson's Diamond (1792-1819).

The match, for 3,000 guineas a side, half of which was forfeit, saw the 5-4 on favourite Hambletonian, win by 'half a neck' in 7 ¼ minutes. Betting at the Coffee Houses in the morning favoured Hambletonian at 5/6, but on course during the race Evens was offered against each horse. http://www.greyhoundderby.com/St%20Leger%201795.html

The race attracted large crowds and ‘drew together the greatest concourse of people that ever was seen at Newmarket’, according to The Sporting Magazine. Reporters went on to write that during the race both Diamond and Hambletonian had been ‘much cut with the whip’ and 'severely goaded with the spur’, Hambletonian, ridden by the jockey Francis Buckle, ‘shockingly’ so. He would win by a dramatic last-minute effort. nationaltrustcollections


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Stewball in the 1860's South
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 01:02 PM

Even after all this time, it makes me sad and angry that Hambletonian and Diamond were much raked and whipped. Obviously their owners were not horse lovers, they were mere moneysuckers.


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