What's your definition of folk music?

Subject: What's your definition of folk music?
From: GUEST,Wincing Devil
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 12:40 PM

I've seen this talked about before in several other threads, but the only conclusion was there is no conclusive definition.

Here's mine:
Music that is performed by folks.

Closest I've seen to this is "music popularized by non-commercial means". I'm not so sure of that. A good example of folk music popularized by commercial means is TV Theme songs. "Gilligan's Island" and "The Brady Bunch" come quickly to mind. These are the songs that will be popular at the Folklore Festivals of the late 21st century.

Wincing_Devil

There is no such thing as an ugly cat (http://www.ILoveMySphynx.com)

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 12:42 PM

AND THEY"RE OFF!!!!

"First out of the gate and on the rail is Wincing Devil followed by.........."

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 12:43 PM

Hmmm... I posted the original in MSIE, this message in Netscrape. Is that why I'm listed as GUEST?

<INSERT CUTESY SIG BLOCK>

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Ringer
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 12:59 PM

May I quote Brian Peters (without permission, but I'm sure he won't mind), writing in the current (Spring 2000) issue of South Riding Network: Folk News?

"...I attempt no definition at all beyond a subjective one of what interests me personally,which ... is the body of old songs and tunes that have been around for centuries, for a significant part of their existence communicated orally. They are full of the most glorious and often strange melodies, wonderfully poetic and timeless lyrics dealing with anything from the mundane to matters of the utmost darkness and mystery. They are different and weird ... no software program will ever reproduce them, but they can arouse emotions and speak to parts of us that we'd almost forgotten we had. And they are ours."

I couldn't put it half so well myself, but I agree wholeheartedly.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 01:28 PM

I'm not getting into definitions, but here's what folk music REALLY is right now Here and here

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:10 PM

If you folks will look back through the forum, you'll find that we worked this topic to death about three years ago.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:20 PM

Arrrggggghhhhh.....

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:23 PM

(and umpteen times since Bill...but someone pointed out to me that "everyone should have a chance",etc., etc., blah, blah..so..............)

"At the Mudcat Downs the field heads around the first turn and Wincing Devil stumbles!! Bald Eagle takes the lead through the middle of the first turn showing early speed with Bert on his outside flank. BillinAl and Catspaw drop out and down into the infield meadow munching alfalfa and looking bored. The field moves toward the far turn and.........."

Spaw

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:29 PM

And last yer, too, BillinA.

If you all will follow this link, you will find a thread Alice started last year, which lists links to a whole bunch of threads on exactly this subject. Have fun!**BG**

katlaughing

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:33 PM

"And down in the short chute a protester has thrown herself down on the track!!!! The runners adroitly avert her prone body and continue on........."

Spaw

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:50 PM

Spaw gets the Cat's Chips Award for non-musical creativitiy at high speed...folks, let's give him a great big hand...or a great big anything for all that...

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 02:57 PM

chorus) Gimme that old time definition,
Gimme that old time definition,
Gimme that old time definition,
It's good enough for me.

It was good for D.K. Wilgus...
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Child's children...
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Cecil Sharp...
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Frank Hamilton,
It was good for Sandy Paton,
It was good of old Sam Hinton,
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Margaret MacArthur,
It was good for John Lomax,
It was good enough for Vance Randolph,
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Bascom Lunsford,
It was good for Joe Hickerson,
It was good for Glenn Ohrlin,
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Dena Epstein,
It was good for Edith Fowke,
It was good for Allan Mills,
And it's good enough for me.

It was good for Franz Rickaby,
It was good for both the Warners,
It was good for B.A. Botkin,
And it's good enough for me.

Who am I??? I am Art Thieme

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:07 PM

Holy, Moly! You da Man, Art! And indeed, Art Thieme thou, Art! Call The Mudcat Son Book-keeper -- the one with all the extra vowels. This is a Keeper's keeper for sure. Thanks for the grins.

A

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: GUEST,hollowfox
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:24 PM

My definition of folk *anything* is something so important that it isn't part of the school curriculum.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:25 PM

NOW CUT THIS OUT FOLKS! Don't we all want to know what all the new folks on Mudcat think "folk music" is? Personally I can't wait!

Rick

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:28 PM

This is kinda like saying "what are people"...not a question that calls for one answer by any means. And I know many boots done trod this path before...

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Metchosin
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:48 PM

"The uncouth vocal utterance of the people"..Anna Russell from her copy of the Encyclopedia Brittanica......does that mean that the Spice Girls are folk singers?

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:54 PM

Folk music is whatever I say it is. And, as David Brinkley said, "Everyone has a right to my opinion."

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 03:55 PM

I should have added, IMHO

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: sophocleese
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:01 PM

Spice Girls aren't people, they classify as the uncouth utterances of the television.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:08 PM

They belong on the Neil Young thread, subsection Culturally Impaired Incurables...

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:14 PM

Yesterday I picked up a copy of "Performing Songwriter" magazine with Bonnie Raitt on the cover. Janis Ian's column was the topic of "What is Folk Music" . Check it out. Very funny with a lot of truth rolled in to it. Someone should reprint it here. {With permission of course! }

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:21 PM

Of course this whole discussion suffers from the delusion that there's ONE definition that can possibly serve. 'Fraid not. There was at some early, unpolluted, halcyon day a time when "the old-time definition" that Art Thieme sings so eloquently about was correct, and moreover sufficient. .. In this latter day, however, the field has been talked over and the concept muddied and muddled so much, by speakers and writers with so many different points of view, and often so little contact with either "the folk" or with music, that there's no putting Humpty-Dumpty together again. .. Face it, kids, the expression "folk song" or "folk music" has been poisoned. You can no longer use those terms without further explanation and be confident the correct meaning--whatever it may be in your case--will be communicated. .. There. I may have just killed this thread.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:21 PM

"And as they head down the backstretch, Amos makes a move on the outside but he's pulled up lame!! A Dreamer leans out of the Clubhouse, peering through binoculars and looking for a long shot. Its Mets and Kendall and Hollowfox seesawing three wide now..BUT..BUT....YES, HERE HE COMES!!!!! Track experience shows as Big Art takes the bit and under the whip, charges to the front!!!Down the backstretch they go.........."

Spaw

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:21 PM

Rick, Just for you, I'll make a serious and proper entry. This is a one-time-only occurrence, you understand...

Folk music is the body of music created to reflect upon and share joyous and painful challenges of life. It is sometimes published or anthologized, but most of the time the music is passed directly from person to person in homes, bars, fields, woods, on tailgates, around campfires and the like.

The instrumetation of folk music has no arbitrary restrictions, in my view, but anything difficult to transport is not often seen within the genre.

$ 0.02

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:29 PM

Worth a dime, I say, CrowPerson. I got one here as soon as I finish taping up my starboard fetlock...

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:53 PM

This has gotten to the "who ever answers loses" point, and Rick, for all your eagerness to see this issue discussed, I noticed that you weren't fielding the question(Oh, sorry, I really am sorry about that...)

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 04:55 PM

Well Rick, I still consider myelf to be pretty new to internet communications as I didn't start until May last year and it was a couple of months later that I first visited Mudcat but I already feel like an old hand at this particular debate.

I don't know how many times I have seen this topic between the various forums that I read and I think that the only certainty is that there will never agreement although I have seen some people getting very heated over it...

I will leave this one to others but while you are at, "traditional" also need defining...

Jon

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:04 PM

No! No! No! Crowhugger...it has to be a ONE SENTENCE ANSWER! Preferably a SHORT sentence! Perhaps pertaining to which member of the animal kingdom is incapable of delivering a version of "Tam Lin"!

You're right Ted! I'm just "discombobulated" today. Sort of like Catspaw is everyday!

Big Bill Bruinsly

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:14 PM

In that case, Rick, Wincing Devil already said it. Just for the record all, I only give one sentence answers in my sleep. See? It's just how it is up here at the top of the tree ducking crow plops. :-)

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:21 PM

Ahh yes "Crowplops". I remember them well. Wonderful Celtic band. Didn't Martin Carthy work with them for a while?

I'll go away now.

Rick

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:22 PM

LOLWROTF!

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:36 PM

Definition: Folk music is music belonging to a corpus we argue the definition of here in threads like this.

--Noah Webster a/k/a Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:49 PM

Folk music is music created and shared amongst folk, for their own enjoyment.

Don't even start!

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 05:58 PM

I have changed my mind and will offer my pig headed definition: If it sounds or feels like folk to ME then it is folk and if it doesn't then it isn't.

At least I can agree with myself on this one.

Jon

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Mbo
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:11 PM

Folk music is whatever I want it to be! If I play ELO or British Invasion or Queen on my acoustic guitar--it's folk to me, baby!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:12 PM

how many folk you got in there, Jon lad?

A

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:17 PM

I don't think solipsism qualifies, by definition...

Solipsists of the World, Unite! You Have Nothing to Lose But...Oh, never mind...

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:18 PM

"As they round the third turn, its still Big Art by a length with doesterr on his heels and both are distancing the field. The Dreamer puts down his binoculars and throws away his tickets and goes off to curry BillinA and Catspaw still feeding on alfalfa and looking bored. Ol' Ted did not leave the gate and is going back to the stables while Crowhugger and Wincing Devil are dropping back and trail the leaders by 30 lengths. Vampire Jon and Amos are still losing ground as Big Art heads for the turn at the top of the stretch.........."

Spaw

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:32 PM

Like the man said , "music of the folks".

That covers a lot of interesting territory!

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:43 PM

I am working on a comprehensive treatise entitled Square Dance Calling: Roots of Rap?, in which I give an indisputable definition of Folk Music. Look for a late Spring release date.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:51 PM

GREAT definition Charlie but I think I'll still have to go along with Jon on this one.

Lej, I eagerly await the release of your missive.

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 06:59 PM

My definition: Folk songs and music are ones that have been sung or played traditionally, and has to be at least 60 years old to qualify, and must come from a traditional singer or instrumentalist. My definiton comes from looking at a vast amount of data (primary collections of songs, not anthologies, recordings of professionals, hearsay, etc.).

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Alice
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 08:58 PM

(Oh, no!) Here we go again... now it's Art and Bruce, neck and neck, the tension builds, it's gonna be a photo finish....

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Mary G
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:04 PM

whatever music people take the trouble to learn to sing or play themselves that other people wrote or found or passed on....

mg

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:10 PM

Unless it's not folk music, it's folk music.

So what isn't folk music?

(An uncouth horse wanders onto the track and starts going in the opposite direction...)

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:14 PM

Another question. In this modern day and age, what the hell is a FOLK? Are there any left?

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:36 PM

At the time. all days and all ages just can't help being modern. And any two people have to be folk.

(And, in spite of Bill Broonzy or whoever, this thread has demonstrated that horses are folk as well.)

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:51 PM

Folks is folk, man. The funny lumps of protoplasm with two legs folded over at the bottom and the hearts showing. What's this hang up on time? Did "Long Black Rifle" have to wait xx years before it was a folk song? I thought so when I was 17, but I'm a lot more understanding now. So, the core is that these lumps which flap their meat to make harmonious sounds, do so creatively for their own enjoyment, and share these created sounds amongst themselves.

A

Subject: RE: What's your definition of folk music?
From: northfolk/al cholger
Date: 16 Feb 00 - 09:59 PM

My definition? that sounds like fuel for a fire... somewhere between that preChild ballad that has been handed down, unchanged, forever...and a contemporary broadside, written and performed in the "folk style", is folk music. I think the definition has to fit certain criteria, that is it must conform to the oral tradition... I think that the music must have an element of continuity, with what has been done before... The music should be acoustic, on traditional instruments...you know, the banjo, accordion, bagpipes, and those others that we all love to hate... And most importantly, the music must challenge the concept of the marketplace...I do not believe that music is good because it is marketable, nor do I think that the marketplace is useful to maintain an atmosphere in which music can be maintained from mouth to ear, through the generations...As Charlie King says, I hope this is enough, "to inflame the fans of discontent!"