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Subject: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 12 Apr 00 - 04:48 PM Does anyone have any suggestion for traditional or public domain tunes for this?
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: GUEST,john henry Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:14 PM sorry, but can you make your request a bit clearer please? thanks john |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:16 PM Kipling's "A tree song" is usually sung to a (copyrighted) tune by Peter Bellamy. I am asking if anyone knows of a traditional or public domain tune that is comfortable and appropriate to use with the lyrics (it's a famous poem, look it up just about anywhere). As stated above. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: Jeri Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:19 PM MMario, you don't mean OAK, ASH, AND THORN, do you? If so, I can write out a MIDI (for you and the DT) if no one beats me to it. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 12 Apr 00 - 05:29 PM *I've lost this posting three times now....so if I sound peeved, it's at me* Very slowly now, I KNOW the Peter Bellamy tune for Oak and Ash and Thorn, also known as "A Tree Song" which is where the lyrics come from. THAT tune is still under copyright. I am asking if anyone has a TRADITIONAL or PUBLIC DOMIAN tune that fits well with the words. "Why?" you ask? Well, if I decide to record it, then I don't have to worry about copyright. And if I decide to perform it, I don't have to worry about BMI or ASCAP. In other words, I am being lazy, and before I spend the energy trying to come up with a tune myself, figured I'd see if someone else already had one they were using... I'm sorry, I must really be tired. I really didn't think this was that difficult a question to understand |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Apr 00 - 07:09 PM You could try doing it to "Star of the County Down", or some variation of the tune. It fits well enough to have been in Kiping's mind when he was writing it, possibly a Dives and Lazarus version.
There's a midi of it at the bottom of this song. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 12 Apr 00 - 10:02 PM thanks. when the brain cell gets returned I'll try it. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: John in Brisbane Date: 12 Apr 00 - 10:13 PM I'd love to hear the Peter Bellamy tune if someone cares to post it. It may only compound your copyright concerns but I'm sure that Jeri, myself or others could knock you up a suitable tune if you nominate the appropriate tempo. Regards, John |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 12 Apr 00 - 10:20 PM john, I'll post a link to a midi tomorrow when my brain is functioning. (unless someone beats me to it) |
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Subject: Tune Add: OAK ASH AND THORN (Kipling, Bellamy) From: MMario Date: 13 Apr 00 - 02:55 PM okay - here's the midi....
MIDI file: treesong.mid Timebase: 192 Name: OakAsh This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: Bill D Date: 13 Apr 00 - 05:42 PM the Bellamy tune is so engraved on my mind, and fits so well, I can't imagine doing it any other way, It is so sad when performers feel they need 'different' tunes just for protection against ASCAP & such...I guess I am half-way glad I am not good enough to have to fight that battle... (now, if you find a tune you 'really' think is better, we could have a honest debate and trade notes..*grin*) |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 13 Apr 00 - 06:26 PM I'm not too thrilled with it either, but if I find one, I'll let you know....sometimes it's better when you don't KNOW there's a "correct" tune. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: Lanfranc Date: 13 Apr 00 - 06:44 PM Why not sing Peter Bellamy's version, attribute it, pay the royalties and make a small contribution to Peter's estate in return for all that he did for Folk Music?
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: MMario Date: 13 Apr 00 - 07:09 PM if I knew it would get to peter's estate, I would. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: GUEST,walrus Date: 14 Apr 00 - 09:00 AM "Tree Song" fits "The Seven joys of Mary" IIRC Regards Walrus |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: GUEST Date: 30 Dec 07 - 09:07 AM Oddly enough, there is a Russian translation, but with an original tune, not Bellamy's. Natalie O'Shee, despite the name, is a Russian musician who plays Celtic and folk rock. http://zarez.narod.ru/Sound/07_oak.mp3 Ãèìí Äåðåâüÿì (ñëîâà: Ðåäüÿðä Êèïëèíã, ïåð. Ã.Óñîâîé, ìóçûêà - Õåëàâèñû) à) Am F  Ñòàðîé Àíãëèè, êàê âñåãäà, G Em Am E Çåë¸íûé ëåñ ïðåêðàñåí, Am F Íî âñåõ ïûøíåé è äëÿ íàñ ðîäíåé G Em Am G Òåðíîâíèê, Äóá è ßñåíü. Dm G Òåðíîâíèê, ßñåíü è Äóá âîñïîé, Dm G Äåíü Èâàíîâ ñâåòåë è ÿñåí, C Em Am F Îò âñåé äóøè ïðîñëàâèòü ñïåøè Dm Em Am F Äóá, Òåðíîâíèê è ßñåíü. C G Am F C G á) Am Em Ñ Äóáà ëèñòâà áûëà æèâà Dm Em Äî áåãñòâà Ýíåÿ èç Òðîè Am Em C ßñåíÿ ñòâîë â íåáåñà óø¸ë Dm G Em Êîãäà Áðóò åùå Ëîíäîí íå ñòðîèë Gm A Dm C Òåðíîâíèê èç Òðîè â Ëîíäîí ïîïàë F Em È ñ ýòèì êàæäûé ñîãëàñåí Am F Ïðåæíèõ äíåé ðàññêàç ñîõðàíèëè äëÿ íàñ Dm Em Am F Äóá Òåðíîâíèê è ßñåíü C G Am F C G a) Ìîãó÷èé òèñ âåòâÿìè ïîâèñ - Ëó÷øå âñåõ ýòè âåòêè äëÿ ëóêà. Èç îëüõè áàøìàêè âûõîäÿò ëåãêè, È êðóãëûå ÷àøè - èç áóêà. Íî ïîäì¸òêè ïðîòð¸øü, íî âèíî ðàçîëü¸øü, Õîòü òâîé ëóê áûë â áîþ íåíàïðàñåí. È âåðí¸øüñÿ îïÿòü ñþäà âîñïåâàòü Äóá, Òåðíîâíèê è ßñåíü. á) Âÿç, êîâàðíûé çëîäåé, íå ëþáèò ëþäåé; Îí âåòðîâ è áóðü ïîäæèäàåò, ×òîáû ðàäè óòåõ ñó÷üÿ ñáðîñèòü íà òåõ, Êòî òåíè åãî äîâåðÿåò. Íî ïóòíèê ëþáîé, èñêóø¸ííûé ñóäüáîé, Çíàåò, ãäå åãî ñîí áåçîïàñåí, È, ïðåðâàâ äàëüíèé ïóòü, ëÿæåò îí îòäîõíóòü Ïîä Òåðíîâíèê, Äóá èëè ßñåíü... a) Íåò, ïîïó íå íàäî îá ýòîì çíàòü, Îí âåäü ýòî ãðåõîì íàçîâ¸ò, - Ìû âñþ íî÷ü áðîäèëè ïî ëåñó îïÿòü, ×òîáû âûçâàòü ëåòà ïðèõîä. È òåïåðü ìû íîâîñòü âàì ïðèíåñëè: Óðîæàé áóäåò íûí÷å ïðåêðàñåí, Îñâåòèëî âåäü ñîëíöå ñ þæíîé çåìëè È Äóá, è Òåðíîâíèê, è ßñåíü. Dm G Òåðíîâíèê, ßñåíü è Äóá âîñïîé Dm G (Äåíü Èâàíîâ ñâåòåë è ÿñåí)! C Em Am F Äî ïîñëåäíèõ äíåé ïóñòü öâåòóò ïûøíåé Dm Em Am F Äóá, Òåðíîâíèê è ßñåíü. C G Am F C G Am F C G Am F C G Am À-à.............................. F C G Am F C G Am Gimn Derevyam Lyrics: R. Kipling Translation: G. Usovaya Music: Hellawis(Natalie O'Shee) V Staroy Anglii, kak vsyegda, zelyony lyes pryekrasen, no vsyekh pyshnyey i dlya nas radnyey tyernovik, dub i yasen. Tyernovik, yasen i dub vaspoy, dyen ivanov svyetel i yasen, at vsyey dushi praslavit spyeshi dub, tyernovik i yasen. Duba listva byla zhiva do byegstva Eneya iz Troi yasenya stvol v nyebesa ushyol kagda Brut yeshyo London nye stroil tyernovnik iz Troi v London papal i s etim kazhdy saglasen pryezhnikh nyey raskaz sakhranili dlya nas dub, tyernovik i yasen. Maguchy tis vyetvyami pavis - luchshe vsyekh eti vyetki dlya luka. iz olkhi bashmaki vykhodyet lyekhki, i krugliye chashi - iz buka. no padmyotki pratryosh, no vino razalyosh, khot tvoy luk byl v bayu nyenaprasen. i vyernyoshsa apyat syuda vaspyevat dub, tyernovik i yasen. Vyas, kovarny zlodyey, nye lyubit lyudyey; on vyetrov i bur padzhidayet, shtoby radi utyex suchya zbrosit na tyex, kto tyeni yevo daveryayet. no putnik lyuboy, iskushyony sudboy, znayet, gdye yevo son byezapasen, i, pryervav dalny put, lyazhet on atdakhnut pad tyernovik, dub ili yasen... Nyet, papu nye nado ab etam znat, on vyed eta gryekhom nazavyot, - my vsyu noch brodili pa lyesu apyat, shtoby vysvat lyeta prikhod. asvyetilo vyed sontsye s yuzhnoy zyemli i dub, i tyernovik, i yasen. Tyernovik, yasen i dub vaspoy (dyen ivanov svyetel i yasen)! do paslyednikh nyey pust tzvyetut pyshnyey dub, tyernovik i yasen. |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Jan 08 - 12:31 PM MMario- We found Peter's sister Jenny Bellamy very cooperative when Roll & Go wanted a release for recording "Roll Down." IF you're interested in contacting her, send me a PM and I'll send you her e-mail address. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Help: kipling - A Tree Song From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 01 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM Note, however, that Jenny Bellamy is Peter's widow, not his sister. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipling) From: Jack Campin Date: 03 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM "God Rest You Merry Gentlemen"? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipling) From: Jack Blandiver Date: 03 Jun 09 - 07:02 AM As with Kipling's Puck's Song, A Tree Song fits the morris tune London Pride / Idbury Hill quite snugly. Although a committed Bellamist I sing both of these to this tune to enhance the ritual potency as embodied in Kipling's verse, although in the case of Puck it was initially because I couldn't figure out the one Bellamy wrote. Anyway, just uploaded a recording of Puck's Song onto my Myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/sedayne - all live in real-time: citera, low-D 3-hole pipe, Shruti box & singing... Trackway and Camp and City lost, Salt Marsh where now is corn - Old Wars, old Peace, old Arts that cease, And so was England born! She is not any common Earth, Water or wood or air, But Merlin's Isle of Gramarye, Where you and I will fare! |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipling) From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Jul 09 - 01:21 AM IMHO you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better tune to any Kipling verse that's been already set to a tune by Peter Belamy. It's not often that genius is set to the spoken word & even less often that genius comes by & takes that spoken word & transforms it into song. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipl From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 14 Jul 09 - 02:29 AM Another possible tune is "Greensleeves" with the last syllable of each second line extended over three notes. Charles |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipling) From: Jack Blandiver Date: 14 Jul 09 - 04:57 AM you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better tune to any Kipling verse that's been already set to a tune by Peter Belamy. Peter Bellamy's original idea was that Kipling awareness of Traditional Folk Song is revealed by his verse structure, so that in all probability he wrote a good many of his poems with Traditional melodies in mind. In a Folk on 2 interview with Jim Lloyd PB points out that Kipling's wife once wrote in her journal that Ruddy was singing a new poem today, so the notion that Kipling thought of his poems as songs is fairly well established, although what tunes he sang them to isn't, of course, recorded. Many of PB's settings use traditional melodies - such as Danny Deever, set to the tune of Derwentwater's Farewell - but many of them don't, which in one way strikes me as odd, but in another way, of course, this only serves to highlight PB's genius as a melody writer, especially those in a Traditional Idiom! One wonders, did he ever write any other? Knowing PB's musical eclecticism it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, but whatever the case, PB's mastery in this respect is beyond question. Whilst the melody PB used for A Tree Song is amongst his finest, it is interesting to continue with PB's original remit in mind and speculate on Traditional tunes that might do the job just as well - not just in terms of melody, but also ceremonial association. I mentioned Danny Deever above - I gave up singing this in North East Folk Clubs because of various anti-Bellamist sentiments voiced with respect to his having hiked a cherished Northumbrian air to Kipling's gratuitous slab of grand-guignol*. Which is to say, whilst it works musically, in terms of appropriateness of association it is, alas, way off. The same might be said of Way Through the Woods and Poverty Knock, though I believe there PB was of the opinion he'd came up with the tune independently! So - by singing A Tree Song to something genuinely folkloric - upon which certain speculations of the sort found in the lyrics have oft been entered into - is, in my view, a reinforcement of Kipling's fanstasy folklore with some fantasy folklore of our own. In other words - a Morris Tune, especially one possessed of so hoary a ritual charm as Idbury Hill, does the job just perfectly! * Defined by WIKI as graphic, amoral horror entertainment - so that fits Danny Deever just perfectly, although in said North East Folk Clubs an idea persisted that the sentiments of the piece were anti capital punishment, which is as absurd as saying The Land is a Socialist polemic, another queer notion one encounters in the North East Folk Clubs! |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tree Song / Oak, Ash and Thorn (Kipling) From: GUEST,MtheGM Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:04 AM All the tunes in Pete's The Transports ballad opera were his original compositions, apart from those used for the narrator's threads. One of them, tho, as I and others pointed out to him, I Once Worked In Service To A Lady So Fine, bore a strong resemblance to Fair Maid On The Shore. He swore he had never heard that tune, & asked me how it went. When I sang him a verse, he agreed that indeed he must have heard it somewhere and been unconsciously influenced by the recollection. But all those other superb songs do demonstrate his talent for original tunes. I once asked if he wwould authorise my recording DannyDeever/Derwentwater with Northumbrian smallpipe accompt [in fact I never did]: he replied that, as he had no rights of his own over words or tune, he didn't think he could claim copyright in the idea of combining them. As I have said on another thread, Best Song Of 60s, I think his Farewell To The Land, his own words set to a Copper Family tune, is the best original song of the whole Folk Revival. |
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Subject: Dots for The Tree Song From: GUEST,Jenny Date: 16 Sep 10 - 10:43 AM Hi, Does anyone have the written music with or without parts for Peter Bellamy's The Tree Song? Many thanks |
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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Dots for The Tree Song From: Les in Chorlton Date: 17 Sep 10 - 09:59 AM Check out this thread under MMario A Tree Song L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Dots for The Tree Song From: open mike Date: 17 Sep 10 - 01:37 PM also find info here: (with links to other threads, too) http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=38760&messages=38 |
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Subject: RE: Chord Req: Dots for The Tree Song From: GUEST,Jenny Date: 17 Sep 10 - 03:04 PM Many thanks both. |
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