Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?

Subject: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 30 Oct 00 - 11:17 AM

In my old age and as I specialize more and more in traditional music, I've gotten pickier about my song sources. At the same time, I hate to entirely throw out those songs I've known since I was 16 and hunched over a guitar with the Joan Baez and Judy Collins songbooks as my old and new testaments. But, before I sing 'em in public again, I'd like to vet them a bit.

So, to start, who is the Mary Robbins who arranged or adapted a lot of traditional songs in the Judy Collins Songbook? In particular, I've retained Wild Rippling Water in my repertoire.

~ Bj

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 30 Oct 00 - 11:30 AM

A little more to go on: the real question is where that American version of "The Nightingale" comes from.

As I was a-walking and a-rambling one day I met a fair couple a-making their way, and one was a cowboy and brave one was he and the other was a lady and a fair one was she, and the other was a lady and a fair one was she.

Listed as "Words traditional, new arrangement by Mary Robbins."

How rearranged is it? The tune sounds at least related to other versions.

~ Bj

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 30 Oct 00 - 11:03 PM

Refresh. Sigh.

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: Night Owl
Date: 30 Oct 00 - 11:28 PM

Dunno BUT I sure hope someone here can answer this for you Bj...got me wondering who she is as well........

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: okthen
Date: 31 Oct 00 - 04:23 AM

i had a brief surf around but couldn't find anything,could be a pseudonym for someone wanting the royalties to go to a seperate bank a/c?

got me interested tho'

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 31 Oct 00 - 03:47 PM

It's probably tacky to be the best contributor to one's own thread, but...

I'm beginning to believe that Mary Robbins may be a pseudonym. Don't have any verification of that, but it sounds like a good theory.

And, when I actually do the research on the song that I should have done to start with, I find through the Ballad Index that "Wild Rippling Water" is in Alan Lomax's, Folk Songs of North America, and when I look there I find "Mary Robbins" didn't really alter it. (And there Lomax - Cowboy Songs is cited, with the version as a "Lomax adaptation from the Gant Family, Austin, Texas.")

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: mousethief
Date: 31 Oct 00 - 04:01 PM

Well I know that the Weavers had a pseudonym they used if the whole group worked as a group on writing or arranging a song. I forget the name now, but this fictional character stood for The Weavers acting en masse. I read about it this past week in a book on the history of folk music in Britain and America.

Thus: perhaps Mary Robbins is really Collins herself?

Just a thought.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: Anglo
Date: 31 Oct 00 - 10:41 PM

The Lomax Folk Songs of North America is the only place where I've seen the protagonist identified as a cowboy rather than a soldier. I missed it the first time I looked as it's under the title "Wild Rippling Waters," very non-standard it seems to me. (ANd I didn't have a printout of this thread with me when I looked, this is the first time I've managed to access Mudcat today).

I looked in what I thought was Lomax Cowboy Songs but my copy is a different book (John Lomax: Cowboy Songs and Other Frontier Ballads) not even referred to in the op cit Lomax bibliography. I suspect the one referred to was John & Alan's revision of John's earlier book.

Belden has several versions (all with "soldier"), and Sandburg has a couple. I don't know the Judy Collins tune, but if it's roughly the same as the Lomax, I'd bet your riding boots that's the source.

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 01 Nov 00 - 12:13 PM

The Ballad Index also lists "The Wild Rippling Water" from these sources: Austin E. and Alta S. Fife, Cowboy and Western Songs (1969) and Matthew Hodgart, editor. 1965. The Faber Book of Ballads, but given their late dates I'd bet they both got it from the Lomaxes.

The title must be someone's recent creative input -- the phrase does not appear in the song lyrics at all.

Subject: RE: Help: Judy Collins SB: Mary Robbins?
From: GUEST,Bj
Date: 01 Nov 00 - 12:19 PM

The Ballad Index also lists "The Wild Rippling Water" from these sources: Austin E. and Alta S. Fife, Cowboy and Western Songs (1969) and Matthew Hodgart, editor. 1965. The Faber Book of Ballads, but given their late dates I'd bet they both got it from the Lomaxes.

I was about to say the title phrase didn't appear in the lyrics, but it does in the Lomax text, not in the Judy Collins text. And it's all there in the DigiTrad, too (speaking of research I should have done): DT #340.