Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style

Subject: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: GUEST,Craig
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 11:37 AM

I've been a fan of Judy Collins for a while. I'm wondering if there are albums Judy recorded where she's accompanying herself on guitar "without any backup musicians". To those who have seen her live (or on TV) accompaying herself on guitar, what was/is her guitar style like? Also, If anyone can direct me to any recording(s) of Judy with guitar, that would be great.

Craig

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: GUEST,Dorothy
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 12:18 PM

a pal once saw her live at a folk festival in the 60's, and said she did a lot of strumming, simple fingerpicking patterns, used a capo and had a quiet way of getting her songs across.

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 01:34 PM

In her autobiography, she mentioned repeatedly that she didn't feel she ever really learned to play guitar very well.

Not to be harsh, but I tend to agree. She's had a remarkable life and career and not only had one of the best voices in the folk music scene of the 60's, but knew how to use it, both in choice of material and delivery. Were it not for that voice, we would never have heard of her, as a guitarist she was nothing special.

W-O

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 06:26 PM

All true, but she has just about impeccable taste, and had great arrangers. I am always surprised that people don't make reference to the "In My Life" album or "Wildflowers" in their lists of great albums of the 60's.   She must be one of the few people from that era who could actually play the piano interestingly.

(Her earliest albums have her playing guitar -- she also had good accompaniests as well in those early albums).

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 10:39 PM

With a voice like that she doesn't have to play the guitar well. But the important question to me is - does she play well enough to serve the song ? It's not crucial to be able to serve up a lot of guitar gymnastics - most listeners just don't care. It's important to play well enough so the song is presented to the audience in the proper manner.

In other words - what does the frame look like around the Mona Lisa ? You probably can't remember - because it's the painting inside that should be drawing your attention.

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 02:15 AM

I believe that the information regarding Judy playing very simple and basic guitar is correct. I recently saw her in concert and that was very true. However, I believe that she had been studying to be a concert pianist .....when she stumbled into the folk music scene and was seduced by the siren call of the folk. Her voice, feel for phrasing and ability to interprert a song and understand tasteful arrangement is probably influenced by her earlier training. She bridged the gap from classical to folk in beautiful style.

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 04:06 PM

See if you can dig up a copy of the Judy Collins Songbook. I remember that interspersed with the songs were reminiscences. I vaguely recall her talking about guitar lessons of some sort (Carcassi?).

I remember her as being an adequate folk guitarist. With a voice like that who was paying attention to the guitar?

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Folkie101
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 09:12 AM

I saw Judy on a PBS special with other 60's folk acts about a year or so ago accompanying herself on guitar. She played basic folk accompaniment in her own lovely way. There are many ways to approach folk guitar accompaniment (imho), and she did a fine job. And that voice, as beautiful and youthful as ever!

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:46 AM

I suppose we must consider what is good or adequate or maybe even necessary in guitar playing.

The first purpose of the singer is to generate and communicate emotion to the extent needed by the song. A simply stated accompaniment is most often prefered to an intricate melodic guitar line. The voice being the point of communication. Certainly guitar accompaniment adds punctuation and drama to some songs.

Leo Kottke is a good singer but a clearly superior guitarist. I very often feel, as good as his songs are, his guitar work distracts from them.

Emmy Lou Harris, Iris Dement, and Nancy Griffith are good guitarist and they play solid simply stated stuff. But they are primarily singers and songwriters. People disect their songs and their voices but I have never heard anyone critique let alone even mention their guitar styles.

I saw Judy Collins live many years ago. It was apparent to me at the time that she employed that Pete Seeger preformance style where you play understated while you are singing and up the power or volume for effect in between the verses or before a next line or even to lend drama to to a single word.

She also recorded in the day of the great sidemen at Electra. She could have had Danny Kalb, Dave Bromberg, John Hearld, Paul Prestopino, Billy Faier, and about 12 others back her up.
So she didn't need to play any more than a basic style.

So is what she is doing good enough? Or do we expect better from such a prominent name? Since I am from the less is more school I think what she does is just fine.

Don

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 01:46 PM

Even though she was/is a better pianist than guitarist, Judy Collins chose to use the guitar more often than not, presumably as more appropriate to the individiual songs in question.

I think her judgement was generally correct, since her playing was always at the very least "good enough."

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 07:45 PM

Exquisite voice and phrasing. Really knows how to handle a song. Her guitar work (judging from early albums) was good, but nothing spectacular. It was simple, but it was clean and tasteful.

GUEST, Wesley S.'s comment about the frame around the Mona Lisa is very much to the point.

I used to pay a lot more attention to the guitar accompaniments I was working out for songs I was learning than I did to the songs themselves. Then someone asked me, "Do you consider yourself more of a singer or more a guitarist?" That made me stop and think a lot. That was when I started learning how to sing songs, not just words and notes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Mudlark
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:33 PM

I saw her live a couple of times in the 60's, cherished all her early albums, and never once even considered her guitar playing. It was simple, muted, understated and perfect for the songs she sang, never distracting, either by not "being enough" or being too much. There are singers who are also noticably good guitarists, but as many have said, a good singer, one who delivers a song with story-telling passion and grace, doesn't need to be anything more than that. And Judy Collins far surpasses being just good.

Subject: RE: Judy Collins: Her Guitar Style
From: Nick
Date: 04 Jan 05 - 10:57 AM

I always rather liked the guitar playing on her albums - I have Recollections and In My Life and a Greatest Hits album. I don't know what SHE plays and what others do but I like the way (for example) 'Suzanne' is performed (which I think is picked nicely), I like 'In My Life' which is simple and more than adequate.

I remember seeing her at the Albert Hall, London in the late 60's and don't remember her guitar playing being poor. I do remember her singing a lovely Turn, Turn, Turn as an encore though.

I also remember her completely and utterly forgetting the words of one her songs and having to ask one of her supporting musicians who gave her enough help so that she could then sing it. She was very relaxed about the whole thing.