Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Down to the River Gaelic translation
From: Felipa
Date: 15 May 22 - 11:28 AM

re Runrig Fan's post of 6 Oct 2011: Here is a recording by Mary Ann Kennedy and Seoid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2toIQxHxiM

To the best of my knowledge this translation is by Kenna Campbell (mother of Mary Ann Kennedy).

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: RunrigFan
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:51 PM

Na Seoid version

Nuair chaidh mi sios dhan an abhainn an dé, 'g ùrnaigh 's a' foghlam facal Dhé,
Is có a dhleasas crùn nan seud, Mhic Dhé, stiùir mi nad cheum.

O bhràithrean, rachamaid sios, rachamaid sios, thugnamaid sios;
O bhràithrean, rachamaid sios, dh'ùrnaigh san abhainn le cheil'.

Nuair chaidh mi sios dhan an abhainn an dé, 'g ùrnaigh 's a' foghlam facal Dhé,
'S có gheibh an trusgan 's crùn nan seud, Mhic Dhé, stiùir mi nad cheum.

O pheathraichean, rachamaid sios, rachamaid sios, thugnamaid sios;
O pheathraichean, rachamaid sios, dh'ùrnaigh san abhainn le cheil'.

Nuair chaidh mi sios dhan an abhainn an dé, 'g ùrnaigh 's a' foghlam facal Dhé,
Is có a dhleasas crùn nan seud, Mhic Dhé, stiùir mi nad cheum.

O, athraichean, rachamaid sios, rachamaid sios, thugnamaid sios;
O, athraichean, rachamaid sios, dh'ùrnaigh san abhainn le cheil'.

Nuair chaidh mi sios dhan an abhainn an dé, 'g ùrnaigh 's a' foghlam facal Dhé,
Is có gheibh an trusgan 's crùn nan seud, Mhic Dhé, stiùir mi nad cheum.

Mhàthraichean, rachamaid sios, thugnamaid sios, nach tig sibh sios;
Mhàthraichean, rachamaid sios, dh'ùrnaigh san abhainn le cheil'.

Nuair chaidh mi sios dhan an abhainn an dé, 'g ùrnaigh 's a' foghlam facal Dhé,
Is có a dhleasas crùn nan seud, Mhic Dhé, stiùir mi nad cheum.

As I went down in the river to pray, studyin' about that good ol' way
and who shall wear the starry crown? Good Lord, show me the way!

O brothers, let's go down, let's go down, come on down,
O brothers, let's go down, down in the river to pray.

As I went down in the river to pray, studyin' about that good ol' way,
And who shall wear the robe & crown? Good Lord, show me the way.

O sisters, let's go down, let's go down, come on down,
O sisters, let's go down, down in the river to pray.

As I went down in the river to pray, studyin' about that good ol' way
And who shall wear the starry crown? Good Lord, show me the way.

O fathers, let's go down, let's go down, come on down,
O fathers, let's go down, down in the river to pray.

As I went down in the river to pray, studyin' about that good ol' way,
And who shall wear the robe and crown? Good Lord, show me the way.

O mothers, let's go down, come on down, don't you wanna go down?
O mothers, let's go down, down in the river to pray.

As I went down in the river to pray, studyin' about that good ol' way,
And who shall wear the starry crown? Good Lord show me the way.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: sed
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 11:19 AM

Interesting to note that a 12 year old candidate for baptism asked to have this song sung this Sunday for his creek dunking. Thanks for all of the ground work mudcat folk have done!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 11:12 PM

COME, LET US ALL GO DOWN, with musical notation, can be found in The Jubilee Singers, and Their Campaign for Twenty Thousand Dollars by Gustavus D. Pike (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1873)

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:16 PM

Masato correctly gives the version "Come, Let Us All Go Down," in Marsh, 1880, "The Story of the Jubilee Singers."
The Cleveland Index lists only "Jubilee and Plantation Songs," 1887, 1915, Oliver Ditson; same lyrics.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 06:46 PM

Nil Chordito, est Acapellllllo

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From:
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 01:49 PM

I am looking for the version that goes like this:

I went down in the valley one day to pray
and I couldn't hear nobody praying...

It was late one night and I was all by myself,
I heard Jesus, He was calling me..

I went down in the valley.....

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 10 May 05 - 12:03 PM

I just heard a fantastic version, an old Planxty outtake, featured in Christy Moore's Box Set.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:45 AM

Whoops - didn't realise that WYSIWYG's earlier blicky was to the same site.
Never mind - If I didn't spot that someone else might not either, and anyway it brings the thread back to the top.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 11:20 AM

I was reading this thread for information about the sources from Valley to Pray. There were some interesting references, so I thought I'd do a wider search and happened across a web site with the full text and music from "Slave Songs of the United States - Allen, William Francis, 1830- 1889, Charles P
I thought it might be of interest. Just a warning - it is all scanned onto a single HTML page, so takes about a week to load - some people e.g. TV set-top box users might have problems with it.
Happy Spirituals folks...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Nevada
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 10:47 AM

Hi everyone.
   On the subject of "O Brother Where Art Thou", does anyone know if the song "Brother Won't You Walk Away" by The Hooters is a part of the sound track? I recently heard the song, and recognised it from somewhere, but nobody agrees with me that it's from the film.
                Luv AAA x

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:15 PM

Oops! encoremusic.com. O Brother sheet music. Sound track sheet music

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:10 PM

Sheet music at Sound track sheet music

Eleven selections piano and vocal from O Brother.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Genie
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 03:47 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Mudlark
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 06:22 PM

Oh, I don't know...OLGA has the words and chords, GUESTItsfordoc, they are very simple, and a simple guitar accompanyment sounds pleasant...they have it in E, I transposed to G, just G, D and C will cover it.

Here is the address http://www.olga.pl/main/s/simon_and_garfunkel/american_tune.tab

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Mudlark
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 06:20 PM

Oh, I don't know...OLGA has the words and chords, GUESTItsfordoc, they are very simple, and a simple guitar accompanyment sounds pleasant...they have it in E, I transposed to G, just G, D and C will cover it.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 07:42 PM

As wysiwyg suggested- a cappella or bust!
Hmmm, how would it sound with 76 trombones?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 09:59 AM

Hmmm. The original request was for lyrics and chords, and no one has posted any chords.

Subject: Lyr Add: I WENT DOWN IN THE VALLEY
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 02:31 PM

This thread is getting comprehensive; I don't believe the version of this old spiritual from Work has been posted. About the same, but put here for completeness.

Lyr. Add: I WENT DOWN IN THE VALLEY

O brothers let's go down, let's go down, let's go down,
O brothers let's go down, down to the valley to pray.

Chorus:
I went down in the valley to pray,
Studying about that good old way.
O who shall wear the starry crown,
Good Lord, show me the way,

As I went down to the valley to pray, etc.
Lord, show me the way.

O sisters let's go down, etc.

O children let's go down , etc.

O preachers let's go down, etc.

By-an'-by we'll all go down, etc.

John W. Work, ed., 1940, American Negro Songs and Spirituals, p. 69, with music.
The "River" may come more from the Baptist congregations. "Valley" is used in Allen's Slave Songs and in Work's compilations.
@spiritual @religion

(A note about the Allen spiritual posted by WYSIWYG: It is # 104, page 84, which may help locate it in printed files or indices made from this book)

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 11:32 PM

Seth, welcome home. Yes, it is a good one for the times.

Are you interested in spirituals? A big new MudProject is going on-- PM me if interested.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST,Seth from China ( Back in the USA)
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 08:31 PM

I've been back here for a few weeks. It's nice to be home, of course, but it was a bit too much even before Sept 11. I opened a box of records I had stashed for two years today, right on top, Arlo, the LP "Washington County" "Down in the Valley to Pray" I got on line this afternoon on a borrowed computer-here it is again! It seems like a good song for these times Seth from Olympia

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 04:44 PM

tHOSE OF YOU WHO ENJOYED DISCUSSING THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF gOSPEL MUSIC MIGHT LIKE TO SEE WHAT IS

oh crap, damn capslock!

... might like to see what is posted now in the "History of Spirituals" thread that is part of the African-American Spirituals Permathread project. Definitions and relationships between genres continue to emerge in these threads, with more to come in the near future..

~Susan

Subject: RE: spirituals permathread
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 09:13 AM

Wow, Masato!

What we sometimes do in situations like this, with multiple threads on one song, is put links between them. This thread has now become the most complete and IMO links to it should be placed in all the others. Might you care to contact Joe Offer (PM) to ask him if he has done that? He can do it by editing it in, without having to add it at the end as a new post that brings it back to the day's list.

There were questions and comments here in this thread also about other forms of music. I really ought to include them in the permathread.

~S~

Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN IN ... and COME, LET US ALL GO DOWN
From: masato sakurai
Date: 17 Sep 01 - 03:43 AM

George Pullen Jackson shows a "Negro" version and a "White" one side by side with tunes and notes.

DOWN IN THE VALLEY TO PRAY (White spiritual)
(Hexatonic, mode 1A)

Come, brothers, let's go down,
Let's go down, let's go down;
Come brothers, let's go down,
Down in the valley to pray.

As I went down in the valley to pray,
A-studying about that good old way,
O who shall wear the starry crown?
Good Lord, show me the way.

(Note: The song is taken from L.L. McDowell's middle Tennessee Songs of the Old Camp Ground, p. 44, and used here by kind permission. Variants: Spiritual Folk-Songs, No. 207; and Olive Leaf, 1878, p. 8.)

DOWN IN THE VALLEY TO PRAY (Negro spiritual)
(Pentatonic, mode 1)

O brother, less go down,
less go down, less go down,
O brother, less go down,
Down in the valley to pray.

'S I went down to the valley to pray,
Studyin' about dat good ole way,
You shall wear a starry crown,
Good Lord, show me de way.

(Note: Found in Barton's middle Tennessee collection, 1880-1887, p. 4. Variants: Slave Songs, as sung in Nashville, Tennessee, No. 104; White's Fisk Jubilee Songs, 1872, p. 42; and John Work, pp. 69 and 193.)

SOURCE: George Pullen Jackson, White and Negro Spirituals (1944; Da Capo, 1975), nos. 30 and XXX.

The Jubilee Singers' version is:

COME, LET US ALL GO DOWN

1. As I went down in the valley to pray,
Studying about that good old way;
You shall wear the starry crown,
Good Lord, show me the way.

2. I think I hear the sinner say,
Come, let's go in the valley to pray; You shall wear the starry crown,
Good Lord, show me the way.

3. I think I hear the mourner say,
Come, let's go in the valle to pray;
You shall wear the starry crown,
Good Lord, show me the way.

(Chorus)
By-and-by we'll all go down,
all go down, all go down,
By-and-by we'll all go down,
Down in the valley to pray.

SOURCE: J.T.B. Marsh, The Story of the Jublilee Singers; With Their Songs, revised edition (1880; AMS, 1971), no. 33.

Masato

Subject: Lyr Add: THE GOOD OLD WAY
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 01:39 PM

Hey, look:

THE GOOD OLD WAY

Tune slightly different, and the words, too.

==============================================

THE GOOD OLD WAY (Traditional Spiritual)

As I went down in de valley to pray,
Studying about dat good old way,
When you shall wear de starry crown,
Good Lord, show me de way.
O mourner,* let's go down, let's do down, let's go down,
O mourner, let's go down,
Down in de valley to pray.

* Sister, etc.

SOURCE:
© This work is the property of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text.

Source Description: (title page) Slave Songs of the United States. William Francis Allen, Charles Pickard Ware, and Lucy McKim Garrison; xliv, 115 p.; New York; A. Simpson & Co. 1867; Call Number M1670 .A42 (Rare Book Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill)

Slave Songs of the United States: Electronic Edition. Allen, William Francis, 1830-1889, Charles Pickard Ware, 1840-1921, and Lucy McKim Garrison 1842-1877.

Funding from the Library of Congress/Ameritech National Digital Library Competition supported the electronic publication of this title.

SH

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 03:32 PM

Just for you, DARLN!

That was just the first one I found. I am sure there are... variations in quality?

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: LR Mole
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 03:06 PM

I have Arlo's version on "Running Down the Road", his third LP I think. But who got the bike he's riding on the back cover?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST,TNDARLN at work
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 03:00 PM

Oi, Vai!

Thanks, I think....T

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 08:04 AM

POLKA GOSPEL

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Aug 01 - 01:21 AM

Yup.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 10:55 PM

Gee, thanks for the offer, WYSIWYG!

I tried Noteworthy once, and ended up using Myriad's "Melody Assistant" instead, as it seemed just as useable and a lot cheaper to register ($15). Oddly, I've been having a lot of trouble with the last couple of "upgrades", and despite the very good and personalized tech support of the Authors (Guillion Bros.) we can't seem to get it worked out. Recently tried "Anvil", and that really didn't do much for me either, and they want considerably more $$ to register it as i recall. If we can't get Melody Asst. unconstipated here shortly, I may be tempted to revisit Noteworty!

If I can get Melody to run, as It sometimes will (albiet very slowly these days) it will accept MIDI files and translate them into a score, or will input/output *.MUS *.MID or *.BAK files. It seems to me that I have recieved NWC files as attachments and Melody has opened them without a hitch; we could give it a try.

I'll give u a PM with my E-mail if you'd like to give it a shot - and thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 07:20 PM

Have NWC file now in C, solo piano, who wants as NWC or MIDI?

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:50 PM

Joe, Jeri, thanks, I know that.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:42 PM

I'm probably stating the obvious - when you do it in NWC, just click "Save as" then choose saving as a MIDI. Type O is for one staff, type 1 is for multiple staffs/parts.

I looked for a midi, and didn't find one.
I did manage to find the site for God's Yellow Pages, but no tunes. (There's gotta be a midi out there somewhere!)

Subject: Sending tunes by e-mail
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 04:38 PM

Hi, Susan - If you're sending somebody a tune so they can listen to it, it's probably best to send it in MIDI format because it's a universal standard. Noteworthy Composer is very good at producing tunes in MIDI format.
If you want to send tunes with lyrics attached (which is want we prefer for submissions to the Digital Tradition), using Noteworthy Composer's own format is preferable. There is no universal standard for tunes with lyrics attached, but Noteworthy Composer's format is the most common format I've seen and it's the format we've agreed to use as the standard for Digital Tradition submissions.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 11:11 PM

UJ, if you can't find it, I can probably do it up in Noteworthy Composer for you. Do you have that? There is a free eval version you can download to hear tunes.

Or I could scan the version I have in the spirituals book.

Or of course it is on the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack.

Let me know, OK?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 10:32 PM

Happened to catch this one on PalTalk one night while slumming in one of those gospel-bluegrass rooms where people play records and CDs to each other all night. Sometimes they (including, in some cases, the kids and the hawn'dawg) attempt to sing along, and that can get really entertaining! They were really nice folk though, and i enjoyed kibitzing with 'em. One lady played a really C/W version of "Down to the River"; I'd never heard it before, but really liked it.

Does anyone know where I might pirate a MIDI or score of it on the internet somewhere? I don't think I remember the melody well enough to wing it just yet, but would like to try it. I think that it might be rather well suited to the "Minstrel" banjo..

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 08:47 PM

Polka gospel, I know-- but it's out there!

My opinion is that every genre that exists has at least a couple of Christian devotees crazy enough (inspired I mean) to write gospel music in that idiom.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: TNDARLN
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 07:42 PM

Don't forget that whole genre of songs birthed in the camp meetings of the early 1800s that are often called "white spirituals". Many of the people participating in these meetings were also illiterate, also poor; also seeking to express high octane emotion.

The songs could be as simple as: Four phrases, w/ the first three having the same words [and some kind of melodic sequence]and the fourth, being a "closer". [remember singing "The Paw Paw Patch" as a kid? same deal] [also, the glory, hallelujah refrain of the Battle Hymn of the Republic] Some of those songs did end up in tunebooks like The Sacred Harp, arranged in 3 or 4 part harmony. [Rocky Road comes to mind]

I think, too, that the "floating verse" idea also appears in the Anglo and Irish ballad tradition, doesn't it?

So I guess I don't see ALL that much difference between the camp meetin' choruses back then, and the praise choruses now, except for the probable absence of instruments back then...

But I gotta say, that as a southern don't-know-much-about-polkas girl, I am INTRIGUED by the idea of polka gospel!!!
T

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 01:15 PM

Hello (again) IanB! *G* Giggling in the Lord here (Spirit thing)!!

So, yes!

~Susan

Subject: Lyr Add: VALLEY TO PRAY (Doc Watson, Arlo Guthrie)
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 03:59 AM

Found the following at this site: Arlo Guthrie Lyrics site

Apparently the credits apply only to this adaptation, but the copyright lists this as earlier than the ones Stewie gives above--? Still assuming it must have been a spiritual originally.

Valley To Pray Adapted by Doc Watson,
Additional adaptation by John Pilla and Arlo Guthrie
co-produced by Van Dyke Parks

I went down in the valley to pray
Learnin' about the good old way
And who would wear the starry crown
Oh Lord, show me the way

Oh Brother, let's go down
Come on down, don't you want to go down
Oh Brother, lets go down
Down in the valley to pray

As I went walkin in the valley to pray
Learnin' about the good old way
And who would wear the starry crown
Oh Lord, show me the way

Oh Father, let's go down
Come on down, don't you want to go down
Oh Father, lets go down
Down in the valley to pray

I went out walkin' on the mountain to pray
Learnin' about the good old way
I went up on the mountain and I just had to say
Oh Lord, show me the way

Oh Sister, let's go down
Come on down, don't you want to go down
Oh Sister, lets go down
Down in the valley to pray

As I went down in the valley to pray
Studyin' about the good old way
And who will wear the starry crown
Oh Lord, show me the way

Oh, let's go down
Come on down, don't you want to go down
Oh, let's go down
Down in the valley to pray

©1970 Howard Beach Music, Inc. (ASCAP)

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Cappuccino
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 03:48 AM

A large Gospel tape lending library, eh, Susan? I think I need to ask you very nicely for a lot of help!!!

I play bass in a charismatic worship band (but don't hold that against me) and write for British Gospel Music magazine, and a few others, on gospel/praise/worship artistes. I recently heard the nice distinction that praise music is sung 'about' God, and worship music is sung 'to' God. Most charismatic churches kick off with a few 'praise' songs, intended to bring one into the presence (not wishing to get too heavy) and then turn to the 'worship'.

The great problem with 'praise' music is that it has become rather easy for certain musicians to turn to it purely as an ego thing - an easy way to get an attentive audience, for those who haven't achieved any success elsewhere. But that's a whole different discussion!

Regards - Ian B

Subject: spirituals, hymns, gospel,and praise songs ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 11:49 PM

Les B,

That would be a long answer full of different viewpoints. Many have used these words to describe music of their own or others, as though it can be nailed down, but no one seems to agree on the right way to divide them up. The same words can be used to describe very different traditions, and everyone is equally right I think.

I will take a shot as I understand it, simoplified due to tiredness! This is from a US view from one who does all these musics on a weekly basis, acoustically. And who has collected a large Gospel Tape Lending Library, which spans and transcends all of these.

I guess I should start with spirituals-- easiest. This usually refers to the music of African slaves and their descendants in the US before and after they were freed, religious and spiritual in nature and based on African call-response and other song forms. I have a delightful source book that describes this genre more fully and have been thinking about posting some of the editor's thoughts on that. Spirituals are generally understood to be inspired by feelings and events, an outpouring, songs to be sung in church, at work, out for a walk... like breathing, I think. Melody rules, over words, because words can be made up to suit the moment, and this method of improvising verses to make a new version or extend the theme of an existing version is called "floating verses." There are melodic features unique to the form also. Spirituals were passed mainly orally.

Hymns are generally understood to be be music composed on purpose for use in organized worship, written down and usually printed by denominationally-sponsored presses for authorized use in a particular denomination. Beyond that we get into all the kinds of hymns there are, and some, like Sacred Harp, are passed in an oral-written combination. But for the most part, if you are thinking hymns, you are thinking a hardcover book.

Gospel is used to describe the sub-genre of any other genre of music that is Christian in focus, and there are some, like bluegrass, that you might hear in a concert as part of an eclectic performance. There is Polka gospel, southern gospel, country gospel, blues gospel, etc. "Gospel" also means a number of other specific things depending on the tradition and view of the person saying it, and I will leave that to others to fill in. Sometimes gospel means white southern gospel, for instance, whcih has certain melodic and harmonic patterns and certain commonalities of imagery and theme. But to others, "gospel" is all black, a special kind of church singing. And it's ALL GOSPEL!

"Praise" music is a relatively recent genre. Its beginnings are variously said to have come from ex-potsmoking "Jesus freaks" new to Christianity or from Bill and Gloria Gaither's southern gospel music! As most people understand it, it consists of short, easily-sung items meant for the whole congregation to sing repetitiuously with a "praise and worship team" leading on various instruments and vocally. This term also has a lot of room in it for various meanings, but I think of it most closely with the Christian charismatic movement, because the idea for many is to lose oneself in the worship through music and be one ion the spirit. *G* And in some respects you could say that praise music is related to the singing of Psalms, although the music used would usually be quiote different.

Hope this is helpful, and as I said I am sure others have their own ways of saying these things.

But then there's Taize music as well, and other chant forms, and Bahamian chant praise singing...

~Susan

Subject: spirituals, hymns, gospel,and praise songs ?
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 09:14 PM

I feel kinda dumb asking this, but what is the difference between spirituals, hymns, gospel,and praise songs ?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 08:37 PM

Yes, but the spirituals would have to be earlier.

It's amazing how many items I am finding in there that I have seen as "later" music which never credited the spirituals as a source. Several blues gospels we discuss as having been "by" early blues artists (Davis, etc.), were spirituals first.

~Susan

Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN IN THE VALLEY... and JESUS SAYS SO
From: Stewie
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 07:09 PM

The great traditional singer from Knox County, Kentucky, Sarah Ogan Gunning recorded this for her Rounder album 'The Silver Dagger' Rounder LP 0051. In his notes, Mark Wilson merely noted that the song was traditional and 'well-known', but that Sarah's text was more elaborate than most:

DOWN IN THE VALLEY TO PRAY

Come on, fathers, and let's go down
Let's go down, let's go down
Come on, fathers, and let's go down
Down in the valley to pray

As I went down in the valley to pray
Studying about that good old way
And who should wear the starry crown?
Dear Lord, show me the way

The more I prayed the worse I felt
At last I thought my heart would melt
And I asked my Jesus what to do
Thought my heart would break in two

Jesus says, 'You go, and I'll go with you
'Preach the gospel and I'll preach with you'
Lord, if I go, tell me what to say
For they won't believe on me

…. Brothers ….

…. Sisters …..

Source: transcription in booklet accompanying Sarah Ogan Gunning 'The Silver Dagger' Rounder LP 0051 (1974).

Note: Sarah used this song as the basis for her 'Down on the Picket Line' which may be found on Folk-Legacy FSA-6.

Traditional singer from Madison County, North Carolina, Dillard Chandler, recorded a song with a very similar tune. It uses a text similar to Sarah's final stanza for 'Down in the Valley to Pray' as its chorus. In his notes to Dillard Chandler 'The End of an Old Song' Folkways LP FA 2418, Robert Balsam noted that 'the song was absent from books and recordings and that Mary Sands, whom Cecil Sharp collected from, said she wrote it. Dillard said she would always walk through the valleys and mountains singing. Although Mary Sands was mostly known as a ballad singer (because of Sharp), she was also a contributor to the religious song tradition'.

JESUS SAYS SO

When I was a sinner, the people would say
If you want to be converted, you'd better pray
So trust in them that's found the lord
Free as promised a sure reward

Chorus:
Jesus says go – I'll go with you
Pray to the gospel, and I'll pray with you
Lord, if I go, tell me what to say
For they won't believe on me

When I started out on my way to pray
I'll tell you what the spirit did say
Come undo me for I am a way
And I intend in trying to pray

The more I prayed, the worse I felt
But at last I thought my heart would melt

Chorus

Well, my hands was tied, my feet was bound
The elements opened and the Lord came down
The voice I heard sounds so sweet
The love run out of the soul (sic) of my feet

Chorus

Well, it's doubts may ride and troubles may roll
But God said he'd save your sin sick soul

Chorus

Source: transcription in booklet accompanying Dillard Chandler 'The End of an Old Song' Folkways LP FA 2418 (1975).

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 06:30 PM

I have it in a book of old spirituals.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 05:21 PM

Yes but WHO WROTE IT and WHEN?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: GUEST,Seth from China
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 06:09 PM

I'm pretty sure that Arlo Guthrie had it on an LP he recorded years ago. I know that is where I first heard it. But I can't remember the name of the record. I'll look for it on his website. Seth

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 12:13 PM

The movie version is, [studying].

Also, [robe and crown] alternates with [starry crown].

The verse order in that version is sisters, brothers, fathers, mothers, sinners. But like Mississippi John Hurt's "Blessed Be the Name," the exhortation can be directed to any group. It sounds, on the tape, like each group called to joins in on the next repeat of the chorus till all are in, but I am not sure and have not seen the movie. That's how I'd do it with a large group though, as a song-led piece.

My tape is out in the car, froze, and I don't wanna play it froze and break it, but my recollection is that some sections are [down TO the river to pray] and some are [down IN the river].

The verses end, I think, [Godd Lord, show me the way.]

Lovely on autoharp in C.

Apply folk process and mix well. Serve hot.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 04:21 AM

That could well be the one... Doc watson.

Studying would make more sense. I think the robe and crown / star and crown / starry crown thing is pretty much interchangeable, if I remember rightly, the recording that I heard waried slightly from verse to verse. I might have to dig this one out and learn it actually. It's a jolly good song.

Cheers Steve,

Jon

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 03:40 AM

I think Doc Watson sings
I'm gonna go down in the valley to pray
Studying about that good old way
And who shall wear the starry crown
Lord, show me the way.

Steve

Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN TO THE RIVER TO PRAY
From: English Jon
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 03:36 AM

Is this:

as i went down to the valley ( or river) to pray
worrying about that good old way
and who shall wear the robe and crown (or star and crown)
good lord deliver me.

Oh fathers let's go down
let's go down,
Don'tcha wanna come down
Of fathers let's go down
down in the valley to pray (or down to the river)

repeat, changing the relative:
Fathers, Mothers, Sisters, Brothers, or adding other characters: (Oh preacher, Oh Christians, Oh People etc)

Chords at their simplest (throw in the odd Bm for variety)

as D went down to the valley to pray
A about that D old G and
D shall wear the robe and crown,
Good A de - G- ver A

A fathers D go down
let's go down
Dontcha G come D
A fathers D go down
G in the valley to A

Or is it some completely different song? in which case Sorry for wasting your time. Hope this helps

Jon

Line Breaks
added.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Down to the River to Pray
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Feb 01 - 12:00 AM

Yup. Hang on. May already be here somewhere. We all been talking about that movie.

Hey, tho-- What chords?? Ain'tcha gonna do it a capella?

*G*

~S~

Subject: Down to the River to Pray
From:
Date: 12 Feb 01 - 11:07 PM

Heard this song from the "O, Brother Where Art Thou?" soundtrack and am wondering if this is an old song and if anyone has chords and lyrics.