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Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain
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Subject: Oran do Cheap Britain From: GUEST,Aoede Date: 18 Feb 01 - 05:25 PM I'm trying to find out what are other names for the tune Oran do Cheap Britain, if anyone recognizes it. The lyrics, in the version I know, are: Ainsi malheureuse suis je ne verrai jamais nuit que seulement celle d'anuit, ni jour que celui de demain. I can't recall the rest of it, but the last verse has the line "et moi comme captive" a few times. Many thanks, if anyone can come up with some possibilities. Aoede |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Barry T Date: 18 Feb 01 - 05:50 PM As I recall, this tune was written originally as a tune without lyrics, having been composed by Dan Alex MacDonald circa 1917. The theme of the tune reflected the emotional struggle of a world at war. I'm unsure who wrote the words or when. George Seto... if you're listening, can you help straighten us out on this one?
For the enjoyment of those not familiar with this air, here is my midi.
It's interesting that you refer to the lyrics in French, for the original lyrics were in Gaelic. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Barry T Date: 18 Feb 01 - 07:39 PM 'Found a bit more information in the Waterloo Press' Folk Songs of Canada Volume II...
The title translates as Song of Cape Breton... composed by Dan Alexander MacDonald of Framboise, Richmond County, during the First World War. He set his poetic verses to a traditional Scottish tune commonly associated with the ballad of Barbara Allen. I do recall a more detailed history that I stumbled upon on the web, but I'll be darned if I can find it now.
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 18 Feb 01 - 11:38 PM Barry, I don't know about the French. The SONG that I know of as Oran Do Cheap Breatuinn, was written by Dan Alex MacDonald to the tune Bithibh Aotrom Togaibh Fonn. This is an old tune, as far as I can tell. The Bard MacLean, in the early 1800s, wrote a song called the Gaelic Ball. I have all three of these lyrics at my web-site. That has links to the other two songs. Aoede, I've not seen this French song you're quoting from. Is it a translation of the Gaelic one? Who wrote it? What are the rest of the words to it? IS it online? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 01 - 12:07 AM Barry, that's the right tune. Your setting is interesting -- I hadn't thought of it with such a thick texture, but it's very compelling. The lyrics I quoted translate as follows -- Ainsi malheureuse suis/So unhappy I am// Je ne verrai jamais nuit/I'll never see another night// Que seulement celle d'anuit/Than tonight,// Ni jour que celui de demain/Nor a day, other than tomorrow. I posted these lyrics because they were the only ones I've ever heard; I rather doubt that they have any relation to the original. I'll try and find the rest of the text, if you're interested. It'll take me a bit, but I'll come back when I've put my hand to the recording. Don't quote me, till I've checked, but I think it's from a Québecois early music group -- I just can't remember which recording. It's amazing how knowledgeable you all are. Thanks much for your help. Aoede |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 19 Feb 01 - 12:21 AM Aoede This song is also known as the Gaelic Anthem of Cape Breton Island, where I come from originally. Barry's the smart one with all the knowledge. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 01 - 01:05 AM Found it! Ainsi malheureuse suis/So unhappy I am// Je ne verrai jamais nuit/I'll never see another night// Que seulement celle d'anuit/Than tonight,// Ni jour que celui de demain/Nor a day, other than tomorrow. Ainsi m'occirai de ma main/ des trois cent dix chevaliers/ dont ce chastel était garni/ n'est céans resté que cinquante.// À un chevalier moult maux/ Anguinueron le Sénéchal/ Clamadieu des Illes, menés/ mis à mort ou emprisonnés.// De ceux qui sont en prison mis/ m'est-il autant comme des occis,/ que je sais bien qu'ils y mourront,/ demain, si Damedieu ne fait.// Lui sera ce chastel rendu/ qui ne peut être défendu/ et moi avec comme captive,/ et moi avec comme captive.
There was a better translation than mine in the liner notes ; also one into more normal French. If anyone likes, I'll post them. Generally, it's about how distraught she is that almost all her knights have been defeated by the evil knight, and that she will be taken prisoner tomorrow. It's from an adaptation of "Le Conte du Graal" -- Chrétien de Troyes. I rather doubt that you could find it online, but it may be out there somewhere. In any case, it's definitely not related to the original text (well, perhaps you could say that she's also "reflecting the emotional struggle of war" -- but in this case, she's only struggling because she's losing!) Tell me if you'd like English or modern French (and I've got the liner notes, so it will be a better English version than mine above!). Aoede |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 19 Feb 01 - 08:57 AM Le Conte du Graal online:
There is a transcription of the Paris MS. at the University of Ottawa: Le Conte du Graal (Perceval) |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 19 Feb 01 - 05:18 PM Aoede, let's see the Modern French version as well as the English Translation. This is a REALLY interesting thread. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: GUEST,Aoede Date: 22 Feb 01 - 03:56 PM Better late than never.... Sorry for the delay. This is from the liner notes to La Nef's "La Quête du Graal", Volume One. Oui, je vis dans le malheur,/ je ne verrau jamais d'autre nuit/ que celle de ce soir,/ ni d'autre jour que celui de demain. Je vais plutôt me tuer de ma main./ Des trois cent dix chevaliers/ dont était pourvu ce château,/ il n'en est ici resté que cinquante. Ils ont étés emmenés par un très cruel chevalier,/ Anguingueron, le sénéchal/ de Clamadieu des Iles./ Il les a tué ou fait prisonniers. Mais de ceux qui sont mis en prison,/ il en va pour moi comme des morts,/ car je sais bien qu'ils vont y mourir./ Demain, si Dieu n'intervient. Ce château lui sera rendu,/ faute de pouvoir le défendre,/ et moi avec, en captive,/ et moi avec, en captive. ----------------- I am so miserable that I shall not live to see another night than this tonight, nor another day than tomorrow. I shall kill myself instead. Of three hundred knights and ten who garrisoned in this castle there are but fifty left. They have been taken away by Anguingueron, a most evil knight and seneschal of Clamadieu des Iles. He has killed or imprisoned them. I am as distraught for those in prison as for those who are dead, since I know they will die there tomorrow, without God's help. This castle, which can no longer be defended, will be surrendered to him, and me with it as his prisoner. Aoede |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 22 Feb 01 - 08:59 PM Thanks |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: GUEST,Aoede Date: 23 Feb 01 - 06:11 PM My pleasure. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:50 AM There seems to be some confusion here between 2 different songs that sometimes share the same name, but are set to a different air. I will post more info when I have a bit more time. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:08 PM I never heard either song in French but there are two in Gaelic sharing the same name and several derivitives of one of them into English. To simplify I will refer to them as #1 and #2 . # 1 was written by Dan Alex MacDonald of Framboise, Cape Breton. It can be found published in Helen Creighton's "Gaelic Songs Of Nova Scotia" on page 48 titled "Oran Do Cheap Breatainn". # 2 was written by Johnathon MacKinnon of Whycocomagh. It was published first in his Gaelic newspaper, MAC TALLA , and later in Fad Air Falbh As Innise Gall (Beyond The Hebrides) by Professor Donald Fergusson, on page 132 as "Oran Do Cheap Breatuinn". I am a bit short on time so I will add to this a bit later. Mudcat had some computer problems and the timeline of this thread is scattered. If you click on printer friendly it will arrange properly. I'll be back. Slainte, Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 21 Feb 06 - 02:26 PM Sandy, Would you know when either Dan Alex or Jonathan MacKinnon died? That would determine the copyright expiration. I am of the opinion that Dan Alex didn't die until the 40s? I cannot recall ever hearing when Jonathan MacKinnon died. Whatever the case, I am sure that copyright is NOT expired on either song. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:41 PM Back again!! First to answer George's question. I am unsure when Dan Alex died but if he was a WW1 soldier he was probably born in the 1890's, so he could have lived into the 1940's and beyond. Johnathan died in the early 1940's but I am unsure of the exact year. He was a close friend of my grandfather and they are buried a stones throw apart in the Stewartdale cemetery in Whycocomagh. I will try to remember to check the date on his headstone the next time I visit. In any case he would not be gone long enough for any copyright to expire. He had no direct descendants but his closest living relatives are friends of mine so I could arrange contact with them. All that being said I am still unsure which song is being requested as in many ways they are similar, but they are not the same. Fergusson states in his liner notes that #2 is to the melody of "Bithidh Eutrom 'S Togaibh Fonn." In Barry Taylor's post above the link gives the lyrics of #1 and gives the tune as "Bithidh Eutrom" as well. His midi link no longer works so that is no help either. I have an lp recording titled "Orain Cheap Breatainn" in which the same singer , Malcolm R. MacLeod , sings both #1 and #2. I am quite certain that this is Malcolm "Angus" of the North Shore Gaelic Singers. Angus was probably his fathers name and R. his given initial. Och mo Dhia, it is hard to make this story short! I guess the question is ???????????????????? Are both of these songs based on Bithidh Eutrom ?" The songs are different enough that I would say no , but again they are close enough that it becomes subjective. My mother used to sing #2 to the same air as Malcolm but in a jigged up version. This jigged up tune was also the basis for the song mostly in English "Along The Shores Of Hogamah" which gave rise to "Along The Shores Of Washabuck" and also to The Rankin Family's "Mull River Shuffle." Another song with a similar tune is "All Aboard For Antigonish." It is also a fiddle tune but I don't know the title. I am a bit confused by all of this to say the least. I would be more than happy to e-mail both versions to anyone seriously interested. I have each one on my computer now but they are 2 or 3 mb. I could probably compress them down a lot but you would probably still need a rather large capacity mailbox. Hotmail may not do it. In any case if you pm me with an e-mail address, if you don't want to post it on the forum, I will try. Moran Taing Dhuibh agus Slainte! Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 22 Feb 06 - 04:19 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Britain From: meself Date: 01 Oct 24 - 10:42 PM I'm proud to say that Alex Dan MacDonald is supposed to have been a (distant) relative of mine. My father's mother was a MacDonald from Framboise. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Oran do Cheap Breatainn From: GUEST,Felipa Date: 04 Oct 24 - 08:38 PM http://beatoninstitutemusic.ca/gaelic/oran-do-cheap-breatainn/ Òran Do Cheap Breatainn Sèist ‘S e Ceap Breatainn tìr mo ghràidh, Tìr nan craobh ‘s nam beanntan àrd; ‘S e Ceap Breatainn tìr mo ghràidh, Tìr as àille leinn air thalamh. 1. Àit’ as maisich tha fon ghrèin, Smeòraich seinn air bhàrr nan geug; Gòbhlain-gaoithe cluich ri chèil, ‘S an nead glèidhte fo na ceangail. 2. Feasgar foghair àm an fheòir, Nuair a dhùineadh oirnn na neòil; Ceò na mara tighinn ‘n a thòrr, ‘S e ‘n a sgleò air bhàrr nam beannaibh. 3. Àm a’ gheamhraidh, àm an fhuachd, Àm nam bainnsean, àm nan luadh; Chluinnte gillean air cleith-luaidh, ‘S gruagaich le guth cruaidh ‘g an leantainn. 4. Am Framboise fhuair mi m’àrach òg, Ann an nàbachd Chlann MhicLeòid; ‘S tric bha sinn ri mir’ is spòrs, Làithean sòlasach nach maireann. 5. Chan urrainn dhòmh-sa leth dhuibh ìnns’, Na tha mhaisealachd ‘s an tìr; Stadaidh mi bhon tha mi sgìth, Beannachd leibh is oidhche mhath leibh. Translation: Song to Cape Breton Chorus Cape Breton is the land of my love, The land of trees and high mountains. Cape Breton is the land of my love, To us the most beautiful land on earth. 1. The most beautiful place under the sun, Thrushes singing on the tips of the branches, Swallows playing with one another, Their nests secure under the rafters. 2. On an autumn evening at hay-making time, When the clouds close in upon us, As the sea mist comes in banks, Spreading a film over the peaks of the mountains. 3. Winter-time, time of cold, Time of weddings, time of milling frolics; Young men would be heard at the milling table, With maidens supporting them with clear voices. 4. I was reared in my youth in Framboise, In the neighbourhood of the Clan MacLeod; We were often playful and joyful, Happy days that are no more. 5. I cannot describe to you Half of the land’s beauty. I will conclude because I am tired; Blessings be with you and goodnight. this song is also called A Song of Cape Breton, but is cited as Gan Urra (without author) and the words don't match those of the recording https://www.bbc.co.uk/alba/oran/orain/oran_cheap_breatainn/ Òran Cheap Breatainn 'S tìm dhomh dol an òrdugh Is teannadh ri òran Mu 'n duine rinn an dobheart Bu choire dhuinn 'aoireadh Nuair leig e' n tèin' air fogradh A-mach air feadh nam frogaibh 'S nuair chaidh e feadh na coinich Bha 'n seo feadh an t-saoighail Sèist / Nach nar an sealladh e 's an Eilean Smearsaid air feadh na beinne Pàirceannan chuir 'n an tèine Le coire chlann daoine Nach nar an sealladh e 's an Eilean Smearsaid air feadh na beinne Pàirceannan chuir 'n an teine Le coire chlann daoine Gur e Dòmhnall Raghnaill An uair sin bha 'n a èiginn A' teicheadh às a lèine Ag èigheach 's a' glaodhaich Anna 's i fo ghruaman Rannaidh an taobh shuas dhi 'S thug Alasdair as ruaig Mar gu 'm bualach an caoch e Sin far an robh smuid Nuair a chaidh e 's an spruis dhlùth Ghabh e mach air feadh a' Chùil 'S gur e 'n Grudair a dhioghail Nuair loisgeadh air a' phàirc Is a mhilleadh am buntàta Ged theannadh iad ri bhathadh Cha b' fheàrrde iad an saothair |
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