Depleted Uranium

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:08 PM

Is this true?:
How Stanley Kubrick Faked Apollo Moon Landings (continued)
    by JAY WEIDNER

How Stanley Kubrick Faked Apollo Moon Landings

One thing that I am sure is that some part of Stanley Kubrick wanted everyone to know what he had done. And that is why he left behind clues that would explain who did it and how.

8). LAST NOTES

Those of you who are familiar with my essay, written in 1999, on 2001: A Space Odyssey called Alchemical Kubrick (see http://www.jayweidner.com/kubrick.htm) already know that I believe that 2001 A Space Odyssey is the greatest esoteric film of all time.

For the first time anywhere, in that essay, I show how Kubrick designed the black monolith to be exactly the same size as the screen on which 2001 was projected. The monolith and the screen are the same thing. The monolith is the screen and the screen is the monolith. It is truly one of the greatest discoveries in cinema history.

When one realizes that Kubrick also used the Front Screen Projection system - not only for the ape scenes in 2001 - but also the fake the moon landings - we can see a double, or even possibly a triple meaning, inside the idea that the screen is the monolith and the monolith is the screen.

If the monolith is that device that enlightens humanity then the Front Screen Projection system, and it's unmistakable fingerprints, is the device that enlightens humanity as to how the Apollo landings were faked.

But also we can see that Kubrick used the faking of the Apollo moon missions as an opportunity to make one great film.

Because he had negotiated a deal where no one would be given oversight on the film, Kubrick was allowed to make whatever movie he desired. Knowing that no one would object to his anti-Hollywood methods, he created the first abstract feature film, the first intellectual movie and the greatest esoteric work of art in the 20 th century.

The President of MGM, at the time in 1968, publicly stated, that he never even saw a rough cut of 2001: A Space Odyssey during the entire four years of production. Does that sound like the manner in which a head of a major studio would act? 2001: A Space Odyssey was one of the most expensive films ever made at that time. Does it even seem remotely possible that no one at MGM even cared to see the continuous progress of the film?

No way.

I am sure that 2001: A Space Odyssey is the only film in MGM history where the executives who funded the movie never scrutinized the film.

Why weren't they more interested in this very expensive endeavor?

Because MGM did not fund 2001, the US Government did.

Outside of the Front Screen Projection evidence, which I believe nails the fraud of the Apollo landings; there is other circumstantial evidence that forces the conclusion even more in the direction of Kubrick directing the entire Apollo missions.

For instance:

In the original release of 2001 there were many credits thanking NASA and many of the aerospace companies that worked with NASA on the moon landings. These credits have since been removed from all subsequent releases of 2001. But for those of us old enough to remember, in the original credits, Kubrick thanks a vast array of military and space corporations for their help in the production.

As these are the same corporations that supposedly helped NASA get the astronauts to the moon - one has to wonder - what kind of help did they gave Stanley? And for what price?

In the film 'Wag the Dog' Dustin Hoffman plays a movie producer hired by the CIA to 'fake an event'. His name in the movie is Stanley. In that movie 'Stanley' mysteriously dies after telling everyone that he wants to take credit for the 'event' that he helped fake.

Stanley Kubrick died soon after showing Eyes Wide Shut to the executives at Warner Brothers. It is rumored that they were very upset concerning that film. They wanted Kubrick to re-edit the film but he refused. I personally was in France when Stanley died and I saw, on French television, outtakes from the forthcoming Eyes Wide Shut. I saw outtakes from several scenes that were never in the finished film.

Warner Brothers has even come out and admitted that they re-edited the film. To this day they refuse to release a DVD of Stanley Kubrick's cut. Not only is this a direct violation of the agreement that Kubrick had with Warner Brothers but also it means that we will probably never see the un-edited version of this film.

One has to wonder what was cut out?

And finally:

Eyes Wide Shut was released on July 16 th 1999.

Stanley Kubrick insisted in his contract that this be the date of the release.

July 16 th 1999 is exactly 30 years to the day that Apollo 11 was launched.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 12:37 AM

Everlear Bobert. 195 proof. All you need is about an ounce mixed in something else like OJ.

It has an ear of corn on the label. It comes in two different proofs.

I heard somebody singing a song about Everclear. I wondered what it was so I looked it up and I bought some.

Damn it was good and no hangover.

Yeah, I tried others and took them back for a refund.

By the way Virginia took in about $185 million from the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board in 2001.

BUDGET STRUCTURE
Virginia's budget crisis is twice as serious as it might appear from just reading headlines. Most of the shortfall affects only half the budget, because the rest comes from payments for specific services.

Our $26 billion FY09 annual approved budget is split between 2 funds. The General Fund is $16 billion and used to pay for basic state government operations. One-third of it goes to pay for K-12 education, followed by state expenditures for medicaid; police, courts, and prisons; higher education; mental health and other human services; and car tax relief (7%). Money to fund these programs comes from sources everyone pays (i.e., individual income taxes, the sales tax, business taxes, lottery and ABC store profits, liquor and cigarette taxes, and court fees). These revenues have been driven down by the sluggish economy.

Most of the rest of the budget $20 billion in the Nongeneral Fund comes from and goes to specific areas. Federal dollars must be used for programs such as Medicaid (41%). College tuition payments and hospital charges go to the institutions (23%). The gas tax and vehicle fees are designated for transportation.

While the ABC Bureau of Law Enforcement was originally created to prevent the manufacture and distribution of illegal alcohol, its duties have expanded to include investigations concerning underage drinking, illegal drugs, money laundering, tax embezzlement, gambling, counterfeiting and alcohol-related crimes.

ABC also conducts administrative hearings pertaining to application objections, franchise cases and violations to determine if charges against an establishment's license should result in dismissal, fines, suspension or revocation.

The agency continues to be a leader in spearheading award-winning alcohol education initiatives for people of all ages, developing underage prevention programs and offering compliance training to licensees.

As an efficient retail business, ABC currently offers approximately 3,400 alcoholic beverage products through its more than 330 conveniently located stores, Special Order Catalog and Signature Spirits Collection. Store personnel are focused on providing excellent customer service while maintaining a near-perfect record, 97% in 2008, of denying alcohol sales to underage buyers.

The agency does not advertise distilled spirits or promote alcohol consumption; however, ABC has contributed more than $1.5 billion to the commonwealth during the past five years.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:21 AM

Yeah, everclear is okay in a pinch but ain't got that smoothness that you get with good shine... As fir hangovers... Geeze, yeah, I guess... Most of the folks I know don't drink shine to get drunk, tho... They take them a shot and go about their business... I like me a shot of shine if I gotta do tree work with my chainsaw... KInda takes the edge off the noise of the saw and yet keep the right amount of edge for being careful with the saw...

As fir the ABC stores in Virgina??? The current Governor was elected because he had all these supposed great ideas... Yeah, Bob McDonell told the voters to elect him 'cuase he was gonna fix the road/gridlock problem with some secret plan he had concocked and he was gonna sell off the ABC stores to get revenue for the state... Well, this past week he had to scale back the promise on the roads to no-plan-at-all and junk the idea of selling off the ABC stores because he had forgotten the fact that they are a constant revenue source for the Commonwelth of Virgina... Duhhhhh, Bob...

So there goes all his great ideas... Now we're stuck with the guy but...

...at least we have inmate maintained rest stops on the interstates...

We got alot of inmate labor here in Page County, too... I had two inmates assigned to me last summer when I did a major landscape contract for the Town of Luray... But one Friday I had a killer band coming in to play our concert series and I told the Twon that I'd like to reward my two inmates by letting 'um hear the band but the Town siad, "no" 'cuase they didn't want to porject an image of folks in striped suits at their concert, regardless of the facdt that on any given day there are stripers all over the country and town doing work... So the Town understood that it wpould present a bad image to have stripers mingling with the population for our guest but Governor Bob thinks it's perfectly okay for folks passing thru seein' stripers there at the rst stops cutting grass and cleaning the bathrooms???

Hey, persoanlly I like the idea of inmate labor... It's a win-win situation for everyone 'cuase the stripers want out for the day... But running the state with prison labor as one's secret plan to restore fiscal responsibiluty to one's state ain't no panacia...

Now back to the discussion at hand...

B~

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 04:43 PM

Actually no booze really tastes good. Just some is less nasty than others.Now when you drink bootleg booze, you are depriving the state of needed taxes, not just on your part but the bootlegger's part.

Yep, Prison labor is good. It used to be all the prisons were farms or did manufacturing or did some chainganging so the inmates had to support themselves to some degree. Oh Brother.

Now days they sit around and watch TV while trying to avoid getting shanked with a rolled up, melted Walmart bag.

Except down in Arizona where Sheriff Arpaio rules.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 05:17 PM

Yep. I think that Jay Weidner is the most persuasive and credible person around. We did go to the moon but we used flying saucer technology to achieve it. I expect great things to be announced VERY soon. Never mind that this 'technology' has been known for more than 40 years and no one has broken silence. Lots more at these sites:

http://www.jayweidner.com/Disclosure1.html

"Stanley Kubrick cut a deal, I believe, with the US government to fake the Moon landings. I'm not saying they didn't go to the moon, they did go to the Moon. They went to the Moon, they brought back Moon rocks, they put reflectors on the Moon, they did all sorts of stuff.
"Believe me, they've been on the Moon a lot of times, but they didn't go the way we were shown in the Moon landings, which were faked by Kubrick. In exchange, Kubrick cut a deal where he would be able to do the kinds of movies he wanted to do.
The first of these movies was "2001: A Space Odyssey," of course. He embedded tons of alchemical and esoteric information into the symbols and the script. You can also use "2001" as a springboard to understanding a bigger story that Stanley is telling, which is unveiled very secretly through the rest of his films.
Kubrick's bigger story is that this world is ruled by a group of people who are very advanced. Apparently, they have a secret space program, which they're hiding from us. They do not really time-travel, but they have a curious relationship to linear time. They appear to be able to move in and out of it.

"This is all according to the films of Kubrick, not my opinion. These people are into deep and dark sexual practices. I'll try to be as nice about it as I can. The films, especially the films that follow "2001," are a long expose of a dark, sex-magic cult that rules the world.
"It's all done very subliminally. It's a treasure trove that, like a zip file that keeps pouring out when you open it. At this point, I don't even know how to piece it all together because the amount of information coming out is so astonishing.
Lance: Well, it's hidden right there in front of us. I would say his movie "Eyes Wide Shut" is probably the closest to actually coming out and exposing the sexual side of life as a fictional movie, except that he's most likely playing it down quite a bit."

http://jayweidner.com/AlchemicalKubrickIIa.html
"1) MOTIVATIONS FOR FAKING
But why fake the moon landings at all? What would be the motivation? Authors Joseph Farrell and Henry Stevens both have shown us undeniable proof that Nazi scientists had developed advanced flying saucer technology as early as 1943. These authors also show that the US Government brought these same Nazi scientists into this country in order to build these highly advanced flying machines.
Furthermore, they believe that the idea that aliens from outer space are invading the Earth is a clever cover story concocted by NASA to hide this technology.
"Many sources inside the military industrial complex have related to me that after John Kennedy was shown the flying saucer technology early in his Presidency, he realized that the advances in technology promised by the flying saucers could solve many of the pressing problems of the world. He saw that releasing this exotic technology would point the way towards cheap and environmentally friendly energy among other things.
"Soon after seeing the flying saucer technology, JFK made his famous speech asking NASA to land a man on the moon before the decade was out. Many insiders believed that this was a ploy by JFK to get NASA, and the secret government, to release their saucer technologies. Since it was obvious to everyone that standard rocket technology could not get man to the moon and back, JFK may have thought that NASA would be forced to release the knowledge of the technology behind the flying saucers in order to fulfill his vision and get to the moon by the end of the 1960's. JFK's ploy was therefore intended to free this advanced technology from the insidious hands of the shadow government.
http://jayweidner.com/AlchemicalKubrickIIa.html

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 05:38 PM

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 05:40 PM

Are people people posting all of this bullshit in an effort to try to hide or bury the legitimate information that has been posted in this thread on the subject of depleted uranium? Or what?

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 05:41 PM

Oops.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM

All the information that I know about depleted uranium has long since been posted.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:12 PM

There is another thread on DU, Carol... I posted alot of stuff on it including the information on the Deleward VA doctor who had compiled alot of statistical data on Gulf I vets who had come in contact with DU.... I have since filed the hard copies of those reports and God only knows where... But it's all in the other thread which I think is from around 2004...

I mean, there is alot out there that is being covered up... The VA fired this particular doctor 'cause he was getting to close to the truth... Since then, the government (mostly under Bush and now Obama) have kept this story under wraps...

B~

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: pdq
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:23 PM

Up until 1976, lead was common in:
   
             gasoline

             various types of paint

             electronic equipment

             solder used on copper water pipes in most houses

Those are all I can think of right now, but the chance that anyone has excessive levels of lead in their body from a occasional sip of "moonshine" is, er, "highly speculative".

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 11:03 PM

"Stanley Kubrick cut a deal, I believe, with the US government to fake the Moon landings."

Fooled again.... this was a brilliant 'fake documentary' - with the cooperation of many, including his wife, and many high ranking US people, who were 'ambushed' - but who then cooperated for the laughs - when they thought they were originally being asked to do serious serious documentaries on US politics of the time.

:-)

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:18 PM

Food for thought:

Prince Philip 'told MI6 to murder Diana and lover

The judge told the jury of six women and five men that many had come to believe something "sinister" may lie behind the crash in the Pont de l'Alma tunnel in which Diana, 36, and 42-year-old Dodi were killed with their driver, Henri Paul.

He added that Mr al-Fayed also believes MI6 had been commissioned to write a special report on his family to be presented to the Royal Family.

The judge said: "It is his belief that a decision was taken at that time to kill Diana and Dodi. He places Prince Philip at the heart of the conspiracy, you will have to listen carefully to the witnesses you hear to see whether there is any evidence to support this assertion."

Mr al-Fayed believes that Diana was carrying Dodi's child and that they would have announced their engagement on September 1 that year, the day after the crash, but the Royal Family "could not accept that an Egyptian Muslim could eventually be stepfather to the future King of England".

He is convinced that Henri Paul was in the pay of MI6 and French secret services, and the crash was caused by a combination of a collision with a mystery white Fiat Uno and a blinding flash from a stun gun deliberately fired. Two official inquiries concluded that Paul had been drinking and lost control of the car whilst driving too fast.

But the inquest heard that Diana had written a note to her ex-butler, Paul Burrell, saying Prince Charles wanted her dead so he could marry their nanny, Tiggy Legge-Bourke. Diana also claimed Ms Legge-Bourke had undergone an abortion.

The jury was told of a note written by one of Diana's lawyers, Lord Mishcon, following a meeting at Kensington Palace in October 1995.

In the note, Lord Mishcon said: "Her Royal Highness said that she had been informed by reliable sources whom she did not wish to reveal ... that (a) The Queen would be abdicating in April and the Prince of Wales would then assume the throne and (b) efforts would be made if not to get rid of her (be it by some accident in her car such as prepared brake failure or whatever) between now and then."

Lord Justice Scott Baker also said Mr al-Fayed had claimed Diana had told him she believed her life was in danger.

He said: "Mohamed al-Fayed says during the summer holiday she often told him she would be murdered by the Royal Family.

"She would go up in a helicopter and never come down alive."

He went on: "It is clear that there are many members of the public who are concerned that something sinister may have caused the collision in which Diana and two others died.

"One of the purposes of the inquest is to investigate the incident thoroughly so that the public suspicion is either dispelled or substantiated."

He said there would be a "vigorous and searching" investigation of the evidence to find the truth.

Lord Justice Scott Baker told the jury: "Most, if not all, of you will remember where you were when you heard about the subsequent death of the Princess of Wales.

"None of you would for a moment have thought that over 10 years later you might be in a jury investigating the events related to that tragic August night."

The inquest is set to continue for up to six months.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM

2 1/2-year-old article, available on various conspiracy theorist web sites.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:55 PM

Yes, I think some people are trying to bury the legitimate information in a pile of BS.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:57 PM

Yes but it still has not been disproved. The coverups continue.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:34 PM

"Yes but it still has not been disproved."

Isn't it more to the point that it has not been proved?

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 03:24 PM

Heheheheee... I only read a few posts. My question is, what was The Princess doing with depleted uranium?

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 03:45 PM

"An inquest headed by Lord Justice Scott Baker into the deaths of Diana and Dodi began at the Royal Courts of Justice, London on 2 October 2007 and was a continuation of the original inquest that began in 2004.[5] A jury reported its conclusion on 7 April 2008 that Diana had been unlawfully killed by the grossly negligent driving of chauffeur Henri Paul and the paparazzi photographers.["

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: pdq
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:01 PM

It's hard to tell what the Princess Di story has to do with this thread unless depleted uranium now being used in tinfoil hats.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:17 PM

Hey, There could be a connection between DU and the Royal hit job on Dianna.

We haven't heard about it so it must be a coverup by the MSM.

We damned well know that Kerry and Gore really won the elections don't we?

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 07:22 PM

Yeah, just as I thought. Sawzaw is trying to make it look like those who post legitimate information about DU are somehow similar to the people he wants us to view as wackos by posting reams of that kind of bullshit.

So, Sawzaw, do you consider the US military to be tin foil hat nutjobs? Because the training video I posted in which they use radiation detection equipment when they decontaminate equipment that has been contaminated by DU is made and used by the US military. Should we lock them all up?

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 07:38 PM

"...Eleven years later, DU shell holes in the vehicles along the "Highway of Death" were 1,000 times more radioactive than background radiation...."

Highway of Death

Good map at the bottom of that page shows DU usage worldwide.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: pdq
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM

Uranium Medical Research Centre

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is an orphan, as few or no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from related articles; suggestions are available. (November 2006)

This article needs references that appear in reliable third-party publications. Primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject are generally not sufficient for a Wikipedia article. Please add more appropriate citations from reliable sources. (January 2009)

The Uranium Medical Research Centre (UMRC) is an independent non-profit organization founded in 1997 to provide objective and expert scientific and medical research into the effects of uranium, transuranium elements, and radionuclides produced by the process of radioactive decay and fission. UMRC is also a registered charity in the United States and Canada. The founder of UMRC, Asaf Durakovic, claimed on CNN [1] that: "Inhalation of uranium dust is harmful.... Even in the amount of one atom", casting doubt on the scientific credentials of this organisation.

UMRC states at its website that its vision for the world, "is a full awareness of the risks of using nuclear products and by-products AND to contain the still reversible alterations of the earth's biosphere since the advent of nuclear events and the resulting contamination". They go on to state further that: "There needs to be an appreciation of the enormous effects and damage of uranium on the environment and human health. Governments, scientific communities, and the general public need to understand the many forms of contamination and specific effects. Continued abuses of uranium and radioisotopes will only lead to the steady degradation and eventual end of meaningful life on earth."

{This group semms to consist of two "scientists" and among their associated effort is a series of lectures done with Al-Jazeera, Without Borders International Program, London, England}

{No matter how many times the "1000X radioactivity in shell holes" claim is presented, it always come back to this same questionable source.}

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:17 PM

So are you saying that the US military is in league with Al Jazeera, pdq? Is that what you're saying? Your tactic is transparent to everyone (except, apparently, to you).

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:21 PM

Yeah, the same people want to make jokes about the effects of DU... They would have been the one's crackin' the jokes on the Titanic, as well... Some folks just don't get it and never will because their handlers don't want5 them to get it and they are loyal little corpoarte lap-dog that make jokes...

Haha... Real funny and the earth is flat as a fritter, ya'll...

B~

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM

Is the US military mentioned in pdq's post? Can't see it.

BTW, while I take no position on the health aspect of DU, I will note that the physician mentioned in pdq's post is the one previously mentioned by Bobert - who once worked for the VA.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:59 PM

He was fired, a-b, from a Deleware VA hospital because he was zeroin' in on enough statistical dtaa to prove that DU had serious health implications on the vets... The VA said it was because they were cutting back but shortly after hired 2 doctors to take his place... I'll find my research on this someday....

BTW, I don't think that pdq had linked this guy but I might have missed it but I really don't recall seein' the stuff that I came up with several years ago... But it's archived here in Mudcat...

b~

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 10:04 PM

It's all on the web, Bobert - he worked in Nuclear Medicine at VA Wilmington, DE (I think)...google "Asaf Durakovic", the name pdq's post mentioned.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:44 AM

Yes, you're right, artbrooks. I confused pdq with Sawsaw. What pdq is doing is somewhat less obvious (but still highly questionable). They're both ignoring the legitimate evidence and trying to prove that there is no credible evidence by posting material that is either not credible or that they attack with ad hominem arguments (like pdq is doing with al Jazeera). We don't need any of the stuff they post to know that there is credible evidence that DU causes elevated radiation levels that can cause a lot of problems for people. There is plenty of credible evidence for this.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:03 AM

Well, the evidence is very mixed - but I'm not about to argue that it's harmless.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: pdq
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:36 AM

I posted the source of ichMael's contention that DU-produced holes in tanks on the "Highway of Death" in Iraq were 1000X more radioactive than the background radiation.

As a former chem major (for a while) I will tell you that it is absolutely absurd for a "scientist" like Durakovic to claim that DU, with approximately "background radiation level" when it was stored and fired as a projectile, become 1000X more radioactive upon hitting the side of Russian-made tank. There is no scientific basis for such a claim.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:44 AM

But there is basis for the claim that the US military regards it as a threat of excess radiation exposure. They treat it as such in the way they decontaminate their equipment.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:12 AM

The conslusive evidence, to date, has been short circuted, Carol... Not to sound like a Tea Party conspracy nut but the government knows more about DU then they want you and me to know... Heck, they wouldn't have fired the VA doctor if they thought the stuff was good fir ya'... Someone down the road will get the carpet lifted high enough to see what the government knows but if yer looking for the hard science now, I don't think it is there yet...

Kinda one of the Agent Orange things...

B~

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM

CarolC, that video is pretty old. The uniforms are outdated, as is some of the terminology. It was probably produced shortly after Gulf War I, when the widespread use of DU munitions was new, and they may have been (as the saying goes) erring on the side of caution. Whether or not that still represents current methodologies for equipment decontamination is impossible to judge.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 02:42 PM

Look Dammit. No one in The MSM or the government has said there is no connection between DU and the Royal hit job on Dianna so they must be hiding something.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 03:02 PM

Son-sequitur and straw man, Sawzaw. You may think you can discredit an argument using those tactics, but you really can't. The reason you have to resort to the use of such illogical tactics is because it's the best you've got. If you had any real arguments, would use those instead of trying to distract people with verbal sleight of hand.

By the way, is your screen name supposed to be in reference to those reciprocating saws called, "sawzalls"? I used to know someone who called them "sawzaws".

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: mikesamwild
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 03:13 PM

Anyone know The Defeated Ukrainian ? I blame Putin

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 03:21 PM

artbrooks, this page from the current army training website shows that they're still using radiation detection devices in the decontamination of equipment that has been contaminated by DU...

https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/22662-1/FM/3-11.5/appe.htm

Here's some of what they have to say on the subject (note, they say it's not an "immediate" hazard, but clearly, it's a health hazard that can cause a lot of problems over time, and also note that civilians who live in areas with a lot of DU contamination cannot avoid contact)...

(1)    DU can present a number of hazards, depending on its physical (solid versus particulate) and chemical forms. These hazards can be grouped into three categories: radiological, toxicological, and pyrophoric.

                           (a)    Radiological.

·                DU presents a radiological hazard from external and internal radiation dose standpoints. Externally, DU and its decay products emit beta and gamma radiations that can serve as sources of external radiation for personnel. Contact gamma dose rates from bare DU can be 15 millirems per hour (mrem/hr), while skin contact dose rate due to beta radiation from bare DU is approximately 238 mrem/hr.

·                Internally, insoluble DU oxide can be inhaled and deposited into the lungs, where irradiation by alpha particles is the primary concern. In general, aircraft counterbalances and DU penetrators used in munitions are typically covered to prevent corrosion (oxidation). The primary groups at risk for external exposure are munitions handlers and aircraft maintenance personnel. The primary groups at risk for internal exposure are personnel involved with DU contamination that can potentially become airborne and subsequently inhaled.

                           (b)    Toxicological. Soluble forms of DU can present a significant toxicological hazard. Like any heavy metal, DU can be ingested or inhaled into the body and, subsequently, enter the blood stream. It may be toxic to the kidneys and other organs.

                           (c)    Pyrophoric. The pyrophoric hazard presented by DU is normally associated with fine particulates of metallic DU generated during fabrication processes. Particulate oxides of DU are generated as a result of normal corrosive processes on exposed DU, fires, and penetrator impact with armor, but are not pyrophoric.

                  (2)    Military and civilian vehicles may become contaminated with DU either as a result of direct penetrator strikes, by traveling through a DU-contaminated environment, or as a result of an accident or fire. Penetrators striking an armored target essentially burn their way through the armor. As a result, DU oxide particles are formed and can be deposited in or on the vehicle or short distances downwind (typically less than 100 yards). The metal surrounding the DU penetration hole is generally the area of highest contamination. The amount of DU contamination resulting from a crash of an aircraft having DU counterbalances is dependent on its physical integrity.

                  (3)    Environmental media (and water) can be a receptor of contamination from other sources (i.e., weathering of intact DU components, DU released from penetrator strikes or fire). The level of this contamination is minor in comparison to that encountered on vehicle surfaces, exposed counterbalance surfaces, etc. The one exception is hard-target range operations involving DU munitions that are left exposed to oxidize and further add to the soil contamination.

                  (4)    Ingestion or inhalation of DU from any form of contaminated media is the primary hazard of concern. Taking the necessary precautions to minimize these risks requires appropriate PPE (i.e., clothing and detection equipment) and procedures. Required procedures and equipment will vary depending on the type of work to be accomplished. Some common sense rules to apply when dealing with radioactive material are—

                           (a)    Evacuate or cordon off the area and avoid it when radioactive contamination is present. If you must work in a contaminated environment, wear protective equipment. Also, health monitoring or exposure control operations will be required.

                           (b)    Ensure that your protective equipment is operational and appropriate for the task to be accomplished.

                           (c)    Do not eat, drink, or smoke in a potentially contaminated area.

                           (d)    Roll down your sleeves, wear gloves, and cover any exposed skin areas. This provides protection from alpha and beta radiation in the form of particles. Pay particular attention to protecting open cuts or wounds, and wear a protective mask. Depending on temperature, protective clothing availability, DU contamination levels, and tasks to be performed, wear your overgarment or coveralls or roll down your sleeves and blouse your trousers as directed by CBRN or medical personnel. Dust off your uniform after leaving a vehicle and before removing your protective mask. Always exercise standard field hygiene, including washing your hands and face.

                           (e)    Limit external hazards by wiping or washing exposed areas as soon as possible.

                           (f)    Minimize time, maximize distance, and maximize shielding to keep any doses received as low as possible.

                           (g)    Assume a DU contamination zone at 50 meters around actively burning fires involving any armored combat vehicles or ammunition supply vehicles.

         b.      DU contamination may include DU oxides (dust), contaminated shrapnel, munitions components, or armor components. DU primarily emits alpha particles; however, beta, gamma, and X-ray ionizing radiation are also emitted. DU contamination can be inhaled, ingested, or injected. DU contamination does not pose an immediate health risk. Damaged or destroyed enemy or friendly armor vehicles may be DU-contaminated. Unless an individual has a valid reason to enter such vehicles, he should stay away from them. Consequently, contamination should be removed from personnel or vehicle surfaces when directed by the unit commander based on METT-TC considerations...

... d.      General decontamination procedures are as follows:

·               Use a radiac* meter to determine if DU contamination is present.


(A radiac meter is a radiation detection device.)

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 03:29 PM

Thank you

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM

Let me know when there are convictions.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM

Don't expect any convictions. We're the world's only super power. We do whatever we want, even if it violates international laws to which we are signatories.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 08:02 PM

The invasion of Iraq is Exhibit A...

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 12:29 PM

The US and NATO military used DU penetrator rounds in the 1991 Gulf War, the Bosnia war, bombing of Serbia, and the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

It is thought that between 17 and 20 countries have weapons incorporating depleted uranium in their arsenals. They include the U.S., the UK, France, Russia, China, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, Kuwait, Pakistan, Thailand, Iraq and Taiwan.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:39 PM

...many made in the USA...

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:27 PM

The United States has used more of them on the battle field (and in civilian areas) than any other country.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:33 PM

"We're the world's only super power."

Look out! here comes China - meep meep ZOOOM!

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:58 PM

A remarkably clean, concise and to the point post Bobert. Good job.

A guide to DU manufacturers.

Three U.S. companies produce large calibre DU tank rounds: Alliant Techsystems (120mm), Day & Zimmermann (120mm) and the former Primex Technologies, now General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (105mm and 120mm).

Other companies located in China, France, India, Serbia, the former Soviet Union, and Pakistan also produce large calibre tank rounds.

Alliant Techsystems, the largest ammunition manufacturers in the US also produce small calibre rounds (25mm, 30mm) for guns on U.S. aircraft and fighting vehicles.

The UK-based firm BAE Systems produced 120mm shells for the UK armed forces.

Nexter (formerly known as GIAT Industries or Groupement des Industries de l'Armée de Terre, Army's Industries Group) is a French Government-owned corporation weapon manufacturer.

In 1995, 60,000 penetrators for the 120 mm munition APFSDS-T OFL 120 F2, used by the Leclerc tank were made by Giat Industries of Salbris. The 105 mm munition APFSDS-T OFL 105 E2, used by the F1 canon of the AMX-30 tank of Giat Industries also contains DU.

Pakistan Ordnance Factories is the biggest defence industrial complex in Pakistan meeting almost one hundred percent of the ordnance needs of its armed forces, mainly the army.

In 2001 Pakistan's NCD developed a 125mm armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS) projectile with a depleted uranium (DU) long-rod penetrator. It was made for use with Chinese-made T-80UD tanks. The Pakistani defence industry works closely with China, sharing research and development - this is largely done as a strategic counter-balance to Russia's close links with India's arms industry.

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Depleted uranium is also used in numerous commercial applications requiring a very dense material. These include: ballast and counterweights; balancing control devices on aircraft; balancing and vibration damping on aircraft; machinery ballast and counterweights; gyrorotors and other electromechanical counterweights; shielding for medicine and industry; shipping container shielding for radiopharmaceuticals; chemical catalyst; pigments; and, x-ray tubes, missiles and racing sailboat keels and as a material used in hospitals for shielding x-rays or gamma radiation from equipment used for radiation therapy.

---

The Homer Laughlin Company of West Virginia used uranium and depleted uranium glase on Fiesta dinnerware. 1936-1943 Fiesta red was produced using natural uranium. 1959-1969 Fiesta red Fiesta Ware was produced using depleted uranium. 1969 - 1973 Fiesta red Fiesta Ironstone was produced using depleted uranium.

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Users of Household Items
Source Term

    * Ceramic dinnerware: the glaze of orange-colored ceramic dinnerware may contain up to 20% of uranium by weight [Sheets1995].
    * Ceramic tiles:
    * Uranium glass: contains approx. 1% of uranium
    * Enamel jewelry: concentrations of depleted uranium of 10% were found in yellow enamel powder currently produced in France (see details).

Exposure of Users of Household Items

    * External radiation
      Gamma and beta radiation exposure measured at 1 cm from the surface of natural uranium-glazed ceramic dinnerware samples ranged between 3.1 and 9.2 mR/h (19 - 56 µSv/h) [Sheets1995]. According to assumptions made by U.S. NRC, normal use of such items could result in an effective dose equivalent of about 0.07 mSv/yr (7 mrem/yr) from external exposures [NUREG-1717].
      The dose rate at the surface of enamel jewelry pieces containing depleted uranium was measured at 6.7 µSv/h. Assuming that 1% of the skin would be irradiated, this would cause a skin dose of 0.587 mSv/a for continuous exposure. With ICRP60's tissue weighting factor for skin of 0.01, this results in a committed effective dose of 5.87 µSv/a. (The tissue weighting factor is quite low, since ICRP uses US data for adults showing that skin cancer can be treated and only 0.2% of the cases are lethal.)

    * Ingestion
      20% of 15 uranium-glazed ceramic dinnerware samples tested contained easily removable surface compounds of natural uranium
.
      Vinegar leached up to 30 µg/l of uranium from uranium glass. From a uranium-glazed plate, vinegar leached 31,800 µg/l of uranium, and nitric acid even leached 304,000 µg/l of uranium.

      Based on these leaching factors and certain consumption rates assumed by the U.S. NRC, an individual could ingest approximately 0.21 g of uranium during 1 year. Thus, given an ingestion dose factor of 1.9 mSv/g adopted by NRC, this would correspond to an annual effective dose equivalent of about 0.4 mSv (40 mrem) from ingestion of uranium leached from glazed ceramic tableware. The annual limit on intake based on chemical toxicity would be exceeded around 10-fold.

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 12:18 AM

You take the manufacturers' word over the word of the military people who say it poses a serious health hazard? I guess you're the wacko with the tin foil hat then. The manufacturers have an incentive mislead people about the risks. The military only has the incentive to keep its people as safe as possible. Given these two, it is perfectly safe to say that the military is more believable in this particular context (especially since this information was for internal use).

Subject: RE: Depleted Uranium
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 05:48 AM

So where are the instances of these DU related birth defects in the areas adjacent to live firing areas in the countries that manufacture these munitions?

The South of Iraq - What major battles were fought in that area during the 1991 Gulf War commonly known as "Desert Storm", I do not believe that there were any. As someone else stated DU munitions are used against armour.

In the southern parts of Iraq the birth defects noted and attributed to US use of DU munitions. Where is all the scientific work that has been done to discount and eliminate as the cause of these defects the contamination caused by Chemical and Biological weapons used during the Iran/Iraq War and in the suppression of the Shia rebellion in 1991? Where is the scientific work that has been done to discount and eliminate as the cause of these defects the contamination caused by Saddam Hussein's deliberate poisoning of water sources and marsh areas? Where is all the scientific work that has been done to discount and eliminate as the cause of these defects the ground contamination caused by the petrochemical industry in the area?

Fallujah, do those who rush to blame the situation solely on the activiites of US Marines also deny that Chemical and Biological weapons were manufactured and stored in the city and surrounding area.

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