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Help: The Foggy Dew (Fr. O'Neill): Copyrighted?

DigiTrad:
THE BOGLE BO (or Bugaboo)
THE FOGGY DEW
THE FOGGY DEW (2)
THE FOGGY DEW (6)
THE FOGGY DEW (Irish 2)
THE FOGGY DEW (Irish)
THE FOGGY DEW (revolutionary)
THE FOGGY, FOGGY DEW


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Maryrrf 17 Apr 01 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,JTT 18 Apr 01 - 06:32 AM
Robby 18 Apr 01 - 07:39 AM
Maryrrf 18 Apr 01 - 09:03 AM
Robby 18 Apr 01 - 10:48 AM
Jimmy C 18 Apr 01 - 11:17 AM
Robby 18 Apr 01 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,JTT 18 Apr 01 - 12:08 PM
Robby 18 Apr 01 - 03:22 PM
Robby 18 Apr 01 - 04:04 PM
Bernard 18 Apr 01 - 06:12 PM
Bernard 18 Apr 01 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,Robby 18 Apr 01 - 08:54 PM
GUEST,maryrrf 18 Apr 01 - 10:40 PM
Robby 19 Apr 01 - 07:40 AM
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Subject: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 17 Apr 01 - 11:08 AM

I know Foggy Dew (the rebel version) was written by F.P.O'Neil, but does anyone know if it would still be protected by copyright or would it be in the Public Domain by now? I'm not sure how to determine these things. Thanks for your help.


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 06:32 AM

Probably out of copyright, if it was made immediately after 1916, but not if it was 10 years later - copyright lasts 75 years in Ireland.


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 07:39 AM

Hi,
According to Lesley Nelson (a.k.a. The Contemplator), the rebel version of The Foggy Dew was written by Canon Charles Nelson, a parish priest in Kilcoo. See, that page of the web site at:
www.contemplator.com/folk4/foggydew.html
I still have to learn to do that blue clicky thing.
Anyway, according to the information at that page, Canon O'Neill was moved to write the song after attending the first meeting of the Irish Parliament in 1919. The page also says that it was recorded by John McCormack in 1913, but that is incorrect. According to the John McCormack web site, he recorded it in 1923.
So it appears that the Foggy Dew (rebel version) would have been written sometime between 1919 and 1923.
Hope that helps,

Robby


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 09:03 AM

Thank you both for your help. I saw that recording by John McCormack and wondered how in the heck he could have recorded it in 1913 when it was about a rebellion that started in 1916! I haven't found anything to indicate that it is copyrighted. And my CD will probably have very limited sales so I think it will be okay to include it!


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 10:48 AM

Hi, again, Maryrrf,

After leaving my last message I went back to the McCormack Home Page (www.jump.net/~pwworth) and checked the alpha listing of his recordings (www.jump.net/~pwworth/alpha-am.html#F). That listing shows two recordings by McCormack titled The Foggy Dew.

The first begins with the line "Oh, a wane cloud was drawn o'er the dim weeping dawn". It is, apparently subtitled An Ode To The River Shannon" and is attributed to Alfred Perceval Graves, set to an Old Irish Air and arranged by Sir Charles Villiers Stanford. It was recorded in 1904.

The second begins with the line "A' down the hill I went one morn...". It is attributed to E. Milligan/C. Milligan Fox, and arranged by Spencer Clay. This was recorded in January of 1913.

Query to other 'Catters, could it be that the Contemplator's reference to McCormack's 1913 recording of The Foggy Dew is an indication that Canon O'Neill wrote his poem about the the 1916 Easter Rebellion so as to fit the earlier tune used by Milligan-Fox?

Robby


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 11:17 AM

Re the McCormick recording - This is not the "rebel Version" but an older English ballad. I have the recording of McCormick singing "A' down the hill I went one morn" etc. as Robby stated above and it is a beautiful sad love song, definitely not the song about the 1916 insurrection.. I am not even sure if McCormick recorded the rebel version at all. ?.


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 11:51 AM

This get's curiouser and curiouser. According to Lesley Nelson's information at her Foggy Dew (2) page
www.contemplator.com/folk4/foggydew.html
she gives the source of tune used by Canon O'Neill as being from a manuscript that had been in the possession of one Kathleen Dallat, which gave Carl Hardebeck as the arranger.
I have not been successful in finding an e-mail address for her, and no e-mail link was found at her Folk Music of England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and America web site, to see if she could shed some light on this.


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 12:08 PM

The "As down the glen one Easter morn" version is certainly post-1916, because it has the lines "Or had he died by Pearse's side, or fighting with Cathal Brugha". The Pearse is Patrick Pearse, one of the 1916 leaders; Cathal Brugha was one of the 1916 officers, who later died when he came out from hiding with both guns blazing and was shot down; a little tiny man but a spark of bravery.


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 03:22 PM

I did find an address for Lesley Nelson and gave her the information on McCormack's 1913 recording. If I get any reply, I'll post it to this thread.
Robby


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 04:04 PM

For anyone who's interested, there is an old thread "RE: The Foggy Dew", begun in November of 1997, which provides some information on the words used in the version about the Easter Rebellion of 1916. This thread also contains the words to the lyrics of the song recorded by John McCormack in 1913.
I haven't masterd html yet, and can't find my cheat sheet or I'd have given you a little blue clicky thing. Can someone help on that?
Thanks,
Robby


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 06:12 PM

Pedant alert!!

Copywrite is what authors do - writing copy!

Copyright is the correct term - protecting the authors rights...

Sorreeeee....!!


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 06:18 PM

Here's the clicky


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: GUEST,Robby
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 08:54 PM

Thanks Bernard. Unfortunately that was not the thread I was referencing. The one I was trying to direct people to was started in November of 1997 by leprechaun. The one you provided the blue clicky for started later than that.
Robby (from his home computer, as opposed to his day job)


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 18 Apr 01 - 10:40 PM

I realized I had misspelled it (copywrite) but it was too late - already posted!


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Subject: RE: Help: The Foggy Dew - Copywrited?
From: Robby
Date: 19 Apr 01 - 07:40 AM

OK. I found my html cheat sheet and the location of that old thread, so I'll try to give you a clicky to that location.

Click here

Now to find out how I did. But if I messed it up, the information is there for you to get to the older thread.

Robby (whose back at his day job)


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