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The Million dollar question - (meaning of title)

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GUEST,djh 03 Jul 01 - 08:58 AM
GUEST,djh 03 Jul 01 - 09:56 AM
Amos 03 Jul 01 - 10:17 AM
GUEST 03 Jul 01 - 10:39 AM
Matt_R 03 Jul 01 - 10:48 AM
hesperis 03 Jul 01 - 10:58 AM
Sorcha 03 Jul 01 - 11:06 AM
GUEST,djh 03 Jul 01 - 11:13 AM
catspaw49 03 Jul 01 - 11:22 AM
Uncle_DaveO 03 Jul 01 - 11:31 AM
GUEST,djh 03 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM
Rick Fielding 03 Jul 01 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,djh 03 Jul 01 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,Les B 03 Jul 01 - 03:36 PM
Amos 03 Jul 01 - 03:54 PM
catspaw49 03 Jul 01 - 04:32 PM
Peter T. 03 Jul 01 - 04:43 PM
catspaw49 03 Jul 01 - 05:51 PM
dick greenhaus 03 Jul 01 - 05:56 PM
Peter T. 03 Jul 01 - 06:13 PM
Stewie 03 Jul 01 - 06:37 PM
Amos 03 Jul 01 - 10:12 PM
Joe Offer 10 Aug 03 - 09:46 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 10 Aug 03 - 10:29 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 11 Aug 03 - 12:11 AM
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Subject: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 08:58 AM

Did anyone else figure out the meaning of the title of "Oh Brother, where art thou?". Hint- There is a missing brother, but it is not a external person, it is an underdeveloped part of Clooney's Ulysses McGill character. He is another mythical type figure and is mentioned in the film. The duel character Clooney is playing acctually adds layers to the film, but I imagine it was to obscure for most who saw the film. I bet a few people here got it.
PS I don't really have a milliion dollars


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 09:56 AM

My post is a little unclear. Clooney's Ulysses Mcgill is not only Homer's Ulysses but also represents another mythical character.Who else does he represent?


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 10:17 AM

Clark Gable? The Wandering Jew? Aeneas? Judas Iscariot? Loki? Aw, I give up....

A


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 10:39 AM

nice try Amos , but , NOPE


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Matt_R
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 10:48 AM

Gilgamesh? Marduk?


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: hesperis
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 10:58 AM

The "McGill Man"? (Okay, he's not exactly mythological!)


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:06 AM

I haven't even seen the movie yet, but I guessing James Joyce' Morrie Bloom.........


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:13 AM

No He is also "PO Lazarus" not the Biblical Lazarus, the Lazarus of the chain gang song. Like many peoples who have had their own beliefs stripped and replaced with the beliefs of their oppressors the displaced Africans Altered the Biblical Lazarus to fit their own needs. Biblical Lazarus gets no rest walking the earth for all eternally, Chain gang song Lazarus gets no peace from the High Sherriff's(Authority) dogged pursuit.
Ulysses gets home in the end of the movie, But,Lazarus is still out on the road eluding the High Sherriff. Lazarus will remain out there at least until Ulysses acknowledges his spiritual side which is tied up in Lazarus. Thus the title "Oh Brother, Where art Thou?"
Ulysses also represents man desire for Society he is after all a Hero of the Advanced civilization of ancient Greece . Lazarus on the other hand represents man at odds with society. Another example of the paradox in the character is that Ulysses was thrown in jail for practicing law without a license And almost hung by the High sherriff because as the High sherriff informs him "Law is man's domain".


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:22 AM

......uh, yeah.........sure, that's it............yeah................I sure see it now and..........uh.............er,hmmm............Really insightful...............

Spaw --- Symbolically Challenged


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:31 AM

GUEST djh:

Whence cometh this interpretation? Is it yours, or is it from some source linked to the production of the actual movie? Pretty murky, in either case.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM

It is my own interpretation, but, I am 99% sure it is what the Coen Brothers intended. I could eloborate and clarify but it would take an entire essay and I am at work. I welcome other interpretations.There is no question in my mind even if I am in error in interpreting the film that the Coen Brothers layered symbolism in every last scene of the film to make a more than meets the eye statement. Amazing film.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 12:18 PM

Dog-gone it, I wanted to like that film! It had all the ingredients that would normally make me salivate with anticipation:

Intelligent, imaginative director, with a track record.

Traditional music only marginally "commercialised" up.

Lotsa good "Odyssey" places to go, story-wise.

...But it just didn't come together for me in any meaningful way. Often it seemed like the good music was just "dropped" into a scene without reason. Clooney may very well be the "new Clark gable" and a major heart-throb, but I found him totally unconvincing with all that grinning, and those constant "double takes".

If you're going to mix slapstick, drama, Homeric allegory, satire and old time music together, then the "glue" better be good. For me it simply didn't hang together.

Guest Djh. Interesting theory....can you relate it to Preston Sturgess, and "Sullivan's Travels"?

Rick


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:04 PM

No Rick can you? I'd be interested to hear it. Everyone seems to think I am doing mental gymnastics here. I am going to rent it again and see if the character who persued Ulysses the whole movie was in fact named the High Sherriff in the credits. Who wants to take bets he was.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 03:36 PM

Jeez - and I thought it was Darby McGill and The Little People !?!


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 03:54 PM

I have a theory that he represented Finn McCool, or Tim Finnegan, or possibly Kelly, the boy from Duluth.

A


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:32 PM

That's interesting Amos. Combined with Rick's, I am now led to believe it is an allegory concerning Sgt. Preston of the Yukon and his quest to attend the Sturgis Motorcycle gathering. In it we see the true paradigm of both the past and future for all things related to donut holes, and a new interpretation of Sartre wherein his entire philosophy is reduced to the simple statement, "There is Gladys sliding on her trombone."

Spaw


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:43 PM

I'm with CP. I was going to guess Tammy Wynette. If there is a secret second character in the film, they should have used him (or her) to bolster up the cardboard parodies we saw. In fact, guest, your theory is about 320 times more interesting than the film, somewhat like those people who see the Virgin Mary in plaster cracks in their basement. I urge you to start writing screenplays that make detailed symbolic sense, and send them to the Coen Brothers so they will use their undoubted talents and STOP MAKING CRAPPY POINTLESS MOVIES LIKE "O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU"!!!!!!yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 05:51 PM

Peter, I thank you for taking my thoughts and running with them. I am indeed in good company.

Guest djh, if you have an "in" with the Coens you might consider this. PT reminded me of an event awhile back something akin to the "Virgin Mary in plaster cracks" that he references. Paw, Cletus, and the Reg Boys had recently been reunited with their pal Buford and it seems the tale of what happened might be right up the Coen's alley for a new film project. Like Peter, I don't know if it could be any worse than OBWAT. See what you think:

It was a glorious day when Buford returned to the fold. That reunion led to a joyous evening of the Paw, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg boys getting drunk on "Iron City" and 'Shine and roasting a hog out in my backyard alongside the garage. Of course, after a while, Paw started lighting up farts as is his wont, and that's what I now have come to believe is one of those things best left unexplained.

The neighbors began to complain about 11 o'clock or so after one of Paw's flamers had ignited the hedge on his property. That would have passed as the boys got it put out pretty quick, being full of Iron City and all, but when a major rip set fire to his wife's bird feeder....well, that was it. I tried to calm the guy down and assured him nothing like that would happen again. He went back into his house dragging the charred remains of the feeder and a roasted squirrel that had been looting it when Paw let fly with that fiery thundersprecht.

Anyway, I got them situated again and since my house has aluminum siding, my only request was that they point Paw towards the wall. I figured a good hosing would clean off the worst of it in the morning. I went inside and the revelry continued at a somewhat decreased decibel level with only the occasional flash lighting the window of my den. Around 2 AM the boys came in for a final pee call and of course they couldn't just go. I heard either Reg or Reg in my pantry and before I could get up there, the whole crew was playing sink the Cheerios in my downstairs bathroom. Karen came downstairs at this point and threw a fit since our kids watch everything the boys do and we were spending a fortune in Cheerios. After a severe ass-reaming from Karen, I herded them back outside and suggested they get some sleep around the smouldering pig carcass. I went back in and after cleaning and disinfecting the bathroom and taking a shower, I again settled down in front of the TV to watch a half-hour Infomercial on how I could make thousands a week by selling quinnine pills through Direct Mail Order and running tiny little ads.

They were just getting to the good part with the testimonials and all when there was this giant blast from the backyard and the night sky lit up like a Buddhist monk. There was a moment of silence and then I heard Cletus yell, "HOLY SHEET!!!" Well, there wasn't anyway I could avoid it, so I went out through the garage into the backyard and there they stood, the whole damn bunch of them, except for Buford who was throwing up Iron City and pork fat down his bib overalls over by the smoking hedge. They were staring at an image that Paw's last fart had scorched onto the siding with their mouths hanging open. I stepped back and looked and my first thought was, "Well this ain't gonna' clean off too good and Karen will be really pissed." But when I started to say something Cletus stopped me and I noticed that the look on all of their faces was almost reverent. Paw was standing with his mouth agape and the others seemed awestruck as well, so I looked again.

Cletus turned to me and said, "Doncha seez it Catspaw? Its rite thar!!! Paw done farted Jerry Falwell out his ass!!!" Well, I kinda' had to admit, it DID resemble him in the flickering light of the burning porker on the spit, but I was too much in fear of what the morning would bring from Karen to say anymore than tell them to get some sleep. Problem was, they didn't. I went back inside, the group outside quieted down, and I nodded off before I could get the 800 number for the "501 All-Time Polka Greats" by Myron Kopetz and the Nose Flute Kings.

What I didn't know was that the group had gone off and gotten Pastor Sharphorn, his wife, the Ladies Auxillary, and the Deacons, from the "Church of Evangelical Brethren and Tongue Talking Mohunkers" and they arrived for a look-see about sun-up. When I woke up to the commotion outside it was about 6 AM I guess. The sight that confronted me was reasonably bizarre. At least 150 people were assembled in the backyard and I could see more coming down the alley. A small altar had been erected out of the remains of my stockade fence which was now on the ground, the crowd overflowing into my neighbor's backyard and trampling his stupid-ass garden gnomes into powder....it was the only high spot of the day. Those kneeling at the altar would place small plastic Madonnas and Jesus statuary at the foot of the garage wall and say a little prayer and move on to the donation box that Cletus was guarding. It was then that I noticed that everyone donating more than $25.00 was getting a "Holy Relic" to commemorate their visit to this newest religious icon which had previously only sheltered my vehicles and assorted cans of dried out wax and rubbing compound.

There, perched upon a throne-like affair that I noticed had been assembled from our porch furniture, was Paw. As each person gave his donation, Buford would cut a small piece from Paw's overalls and hand it to them. For $50. they got a piece from the seat, and for $500. a snippet from the flap of his longjohns. It was a kind of poor man's "Shroud of Turin" I guess. Business must have been good since Paw was missing one entire leg of his bibs and he was about bareassed already. I was dumbfounded and I was just considering how to set this up as an infomercial and start booking tours when the County Sheriff showed up and ran everybody off. Then he proceeded to fine me for 19 different offenses and gave me a summons to appear in court for destruction of my neighbors property.

I was able to head off Cletus and the money, which covered almost all of the fines and my neighbor's friggin' gnomes, but it cost another 50 bucks to get rid of the Falwell image. Now if I could just get shed of the real one for the same price.......................Anyway, I have never been able to figure out how that happened and I suppose it is one of those things best left unexplained. I've always thought that Falwell was talking out his ass, but I never figured you could blow him out your ass as well, but Paw's a really religious ol' coot so I guess you just never know. Really, I think Cletus had it right with his first two words, "Holy Shit!!"

Now is that a screenplay or what?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 05:56 PM

Hey Rick- You're close with Sullivan's Travels. The title of the unmade movie that the oh-so-serious perambulating director was planning was (brace yourself) O Brother, Where Art Thou? In the Sturges film, he thought better of it.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 06:13 PM

That is what really bugged me about the film. Sullivan's Travels is such a great film, you need to do a lot better than that to parody it. First they parasitize Homer (which they never read, and admitted, but that is passable),then they pointlessly parody every Southern film ever made (what the hell do we need another fat governor for?), and then parasitize Sullivan's Travels. They are not fit to lick Preston Sturges' sock drawer. Grrrrrrrrrrrr. I would sic Paw, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg Boys on them.

yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Stewie
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 06:37 PM

In almost all versions, 'Po Lazarus' defies work-camp bosses, steals from the commissary and is hunted down and killed, with lamentation from mother. Maybe it was the travelin' man - or Br'er Rabbit. Who gives a shit? Not me - I simply enjoyed the movie at face value, for its humour and music.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 10:12 PM

Well Peter, you and DJH seem to agree on at least one thing -- that there was a lot of meaningful meaningfulness being tampered with by those Coen boys and they shouldn't oughta have done it, as it was an extreme disrespecting of that meaningfulness for them to trifle with it so. But you seem to disagree on which of the biots was providing what part of the offense, exactly, so I guess I can't figure out how to decide to think on the matter, but I will reflect on it and see if the meaning of it all does come to me, so I can particpate in the Righteous Infdignation around here about this movie....

A


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 09:46 PM

a million dollars?


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 10:29 PM

What a tough crowd! I loved Oh Brother and I didn't even bother to try to figure out the symbolism - I just let the movie do it's work. Although the sterotypes were over the top, it was a very funny movie in my estimation.


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Subject: RE: The Million dollar question
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 12:11 AM

Have you considered - watching DVD's less - and playing music more?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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