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What to do when good bands go bad
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Subject: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,djh Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:31 PM I have a string trio. One of my other players has a temperment problem. He looks under every rock and into every crevase to find fault with his fellow man.He particularly does this to me . I have spooned out alot of sugar and only recieved salt in return for sometime. His beefs with me are sophist at best, and downright twisted double standard absurdity at worst. We have been to the point of yelling matches on multiple occassions now. He always starts it , it only becomes a yelling match if I am fed up. He always ends up apologizing and admitting he was wrong , but , resumes the same fault/grievance finding hunts in a matter of 3 or 4 weeks all over again. He always looks for alterior(sinister) motives on my part, which are truly not present, and finds his own motives to be forgivable human flaw. I believe the very knowledge that I would put up with a lot of crap to hold the band together is the primary reason for me becoming a target for his hostility. I really do want to hold it together, but, I am to the point were I have spoken my peace about how much I resent his behavior toward me . I have pointed out the double standard BS that goes into his grievances. I have met him sugar for sugar,sugar for salt (more often than not this has been the case), and salt for salt, nothing works.Has anyone had similiar experiences? How did/would you handle it.Any advice appreciated. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:41 PM Playing music in a group is, next to marriage, the most challenging relationship I can imagine. If called upon to choose between extremely talented bandmates who are difficult to get on with, and moderately talented, easy-going ones, I would choose the latter every time. True, individual conflicts can sometimes be channelled into dynamic creativity, but the edginess of those kinds of partnership take a great toll on you. Can you replace this person in the group, rather than sacrifice the band to these hostilities? How does member number 3 feel about this conflict? |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GeorgeH Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:42 PM I would have said the attitude of Member #3 might be crucial to this . . If you decide the antagonism from #2's reached the point where you don't feel it's worth continuing then it's time for the "move into civilisation or we'll find a replacement" ultimatum. However only you can decide if you've reached that point. And if #3 is not supportive . . . then I'd suggest you start looking round for others to make music with. Good luck - you've clearly more patience than I have! George |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Denise:^) Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:43 PM I can't wait to hear the advice... We have a fiddle player who leans over my shoulder and "cirlces" measures in the music with her bow if I have so much as one finger slip...even when we're looking over a new piece...(I play piano). I have never criticized her in this way--she becomes irate if I even SUGGEST something was less than perfect--and no one else seems to get the scrutiny I receive! I know exactly what you mean. You hate to call it quits for the whole band; there are really good things happening, sometimes, but the thought of another rehearsal makes you grit your teeth... I've tried what you've tried. Any new suggestions, folks? Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Al Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:51 PM Why do you play music? For money, or for pleasure? If mostly for money, then it might make sense to try to hold a band together despite difficulties. On the other hand, if mostly for fun and pleasure, then why subject yourself to grief. Call it quits and use your time to put together another band. I have been there, and done exactly that. It's not without pain, but by far the better alternative. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:57 PM Both DJH and Denise... I'd start handing out a round of black eyes and kicked shins!!! seriously, feck 'em!! Music is supposed to be fun... assholes like that aren't worth the trouble of keeping around... And EVERYBODY can be replaced! Hand them walking papers... or walk yourself... |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,RichM Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:02 PM Denise: Grab the end of the bow, and say sweetly "If you point that at my music again, I'll break it" Rich |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Gustaf Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:09 PM Or, "I'll shove that bow so far up your ass you'll be shitting synthetic horsehair for a month". |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: tar_heel Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM get rid of him...we had an entire group leave us the same day and we were devistated for awhile!so,you ask,what's the point?....well,we suddenly realized how good we sounded and performed with out them....if the spirit is still there,which also includes the love of the music,then your reward of staisfaction is beyond belief! |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: InOBU Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:34 PM I don't have an answer, I am in the same boat. One of my bad little monkeys told me that he wasn't going to reherse anymore for a gig that he wsn't paid for. Now in our band, we do a fair amount of socially responcible music. I generally pay my band mates out of my own pocket when I need them to do a charity gig that they don't believe in, I have sometimes busked several weeks to get the 600 bucks to get the banana for the bad little monkies. Problem is, there aren't that many serrious Irish musicians in this city, espcially ones who care about social concerns. So, I get a facial tick, (no shit, more stress that lawyering) and keep my hands on the plow, while they complain and spend my money. Fuck em, but ya need em. I don't know, maybe we have to go postal on them every once and awhile, put the fear of god in em, for arts sake, (only kidding). I don't know, if ya figure it out tell me. My sons of biches gave me one day in the past month and a half and at this rate our CD is never going to get done. Folks will forget who Amadou Diallo was before my song gets a serrious recording done. Fuck it, people will be extinct before the CD gets done. I am not signing this, because my bad little monkies are vengefull, so, As ever, all the best, (Not Larry...) PS be good little monkies and play the damn music, eh? |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: hesperis Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:34 PM Good luck. I left the local youth orchestra because I was the one who didn't "fit". (Not that I was doing that kind of crap to anyone - I hope!) I had been playing with folkies and dancers all summer, and really couldn't handle the regimentation and emotional strictness of the orchestra. I don't have my instrument anymore, but the freedom was still worth it! |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Celtic Soul Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:37 PM Let me first say that I feel for you! That simply sucks. My sound engineer says that this sort of thing is pretty standard fare in many groups. It is truly like a marriage, and sometimes you love the kids (the music that you produce) *so* much that you stick it out even when the rest of it is horrific. All I can say that may be of use is this; gently stand your ground, and lay down the boundaries (and I am not saying that I have always lived up to this. The heat of the moment has gotten to me many a time). But if you can, keep your cool and let the person know you are not going to tolerate it anymore, tell them what will happen if they cross your boundaries, and then stick to your guns. It does not have to mean the dissolution of the group. It may mean the dissolution of much of your communication with this person beyond that which is absolutely necessary. In my mind, when things have devolved to that point, it is a business relationship only anyway. I would not allow a co-worker to abuse me so. Why should this be any different?
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Phil Cooper Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:12 PM If you feel the music is worth the fuss, stick it out and try to reach detente. If you find your stomach turning summersaults because of potential confrontations, leave the group, or ask the offender to leave. I've had good luck getting along with my band members and don't think I could stay in a band that was fueled on tension. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:21 PM " It is truly like a marriage, and sometimes you love the kids (the music that you produce) *so* much that you stick it out even when the rest of it is horrific. " No intelligent person stays together 'for the kids'... and the analogy is flawed in that when a band breaks up, the music stay with each person... so dump 'em and keep playing themusic you've always played... Oh, and InOBU... Want some cheese to go with that wine? Ya don't like your situation? Get out of it! |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Arnie Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:38 PM There must be a thing about fiddle players - maybe it takes a special kind of temperament to play fiddle? I played in a group where the fiddle player was always threatening to walk out. He once put his fiddle away in the middle of a gig and took much convincing before he would play the second half. Anyway he left in the end and though we missed the fiddle backing, we got along just fine without him. The consensus seems to be that you should get rid of your fiddle player - we managed and you will probably find that you will too. Good luck!! |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: M.Ted Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:58 PM djh, I've been there, as well--I guess most of my bands ended up that way, and it is depressing. I finally realized that, though in regular life, people are difficult for a variety of reasons, people who are regularly act out negative and counterproductive behavior in a band situation do it for a single reason, and that is to undermine the band. Simple as that. Usually it is an ego conflict, a pissing contest, if you will--sometimes it is based in real artistic differences, differences in taste, etc, but a lot of the time, it comes out of feeling threatened, generally by some one elses talent. The problem person feels irrational need to be in control, and gets in the way anytime anyone else tries to do anything--This can be be anything from overintellectualized and heated discussions that interupt rehearsals, to refusing to be the one who changes when the tempo is off-- Another thing that happens is that, even though it may be clear that one person is a problem, everyone else gets blamed for being unable to get along. There is only one way out, and that is to get rid of the problem person--And this holds true if you are "Only in it for the money", since sooner or later, the problem will interfer with your ability to perform, and you'll start losing gigs. Denise, Your situation may not be as dire--have a talk, away from the others, about what is going on here. If she is really only concerned about getting the music right, you'll know by the way she responds--if there is hidden weirdness involved, that will be clear by the way she responds as well-- Not Larry, You've gotta find some other people to play with. I've had people who expected to be paid for things that nobody else was being paid for, and they are people of such low character that no amount of talent makes up for it--
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Robin2 Date: 11 Jul 01 - 07:50 PM How many of us have been in this situation? And is it always the fiddle player? lol
ONE: are you playing in this band for fun? This doesn't sound like fun to me. Find some others to play with.
TWO: Are you playing in this band for money? In my experience, no matter how how good any player is, this sort of strife will show in your performance. Ultimately, that will hurt how much money you can make.
We had the same situation, a talented player that would seem to sabotage everything the band (and myself as the bandleader) tried to do. I stuck it out for several years, hoping we could work things out. Confrontations, long talks, threats, and the behavior would just continue. Finally had to fire the person. I thought the band would suffer from the loss, but went on to find other musicians, not as talented, but team players. The band I play with now is pure joy, and we're making more money now than ever. Sometimes talent isn't the main thing. :) Robin |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: sophocleese Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:17 PM Well musical talent is one trait and interpersonal talent is another. What does the third member of your trio do while you and the asshole are arguing? Join in or ostentatiously refuse to get involved? Are you the leader of the trio? If you're the leader give the guy two rehearsals to get his act together and if he flunks ditch him. If he gets it together put him on a six month probation; any fuckwittage and he goes. If you're not the leader see what the third is doing. If they're not helping you but sitting quietly by while you get pissed on they should not be considered supportive. Suggest to the third that you will leave if the asshole doesn't improve. If number three doesn't bestir him or herself to change things then leave and find others that suit you better. Other suggestions could be:
Use his bow to play fetch with the dog. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Rick Fielding Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:56 PM Dgh, I'm afraid that the one indisputable fact (you too Larry) is that it ain't gonna get BETTER. I'm a big believer that our personal mental health is worth more than anything...music, money, social causes, whatever. 'Cause without it we BECOME those troublesome musicians. Fold the band. Take a three or four week break.....then start a NEW band, with the ones you want (who may very well be two thirds of the OLD band. Good luck Rick |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,djh Date: 12 Jul 01 - 08:54 AM |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,djh Date: 12 Jul 01 - 09:19 AM sorry for the ghost post. To answer some questions that have been asked- I am the band leader, we don't make all lot of money and my primary motivation is fun. The third member is the newest member of the trio and he prefers to stay out of it, who can blame him. I have been down a player before and it has been hard filling the slot,and he is not easily replaced he has been with me since the beginning and is an exceptional musician. There was a time when we were friends.When this thing started he was very supportive. 3 years later , all we got is a pile of ridiculous resentments. Most of which are the practice of externalisating his demons on me with displacement, defensiveness, insecurity,paranoia,and self loathing crap. I used to be sympathetic as I watched him struggle with the world and his issues. But , since becoming " one of His problems" I no longer sympathize. We all live in the heaven or hell of our own design , people in their own personal hell shouldn't be trying to drag others in, but inevitably I guess they always do. On a funnier note the problem really kicked up when he bought a fiddle last summer, no joke. Thanks for the advice and kind words . - DJH |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:12 PM Clinton Hammond stated; "No intelligent person stays together 'for the kids'..." I would have to beg to disagree, Mr. Hammond. We are likely coming from differing viewpoints on this one. Agree to disagree then? Mr. Hammond also stated; "and the analogy is flawed in that when a band breaks up, the music stay with each person... so dump 'em and keep playing the music you've always played..." Tell that to Pink Floyd. When the lead singer/songwriter (whos name now escapes me) left, there was a legal battle over the music to rival most custody hearings.
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 12 Jul 01 - 12:26 PM The analogy is still flawed... If David Gilmore, in the comfort and privacy of his own home wanted to play "Mother" before the court case was figured out, there'd be nothing in the world to stop him... The only reason there was a legal battle is because Roger Waters is a nutter who needs to have his meds reballanced every now and again... It's more about money at that point... When there's the potential for million of dollars to be made off songs... that's not even remotely the case here eh... I've been in bands that have broken up, lost members, fired memebers ect, and you know what.. in the grand scheme of things... at the folkie, playing-in-the-pubs level it's not really a big deal... Or maybe I'm just lucky in that there are nearly 30 or 40 musicians in this area... so lose one for what ever reason, he can be fairly easily replaced... (The latest exception is chick vocals... 3 of the 5 are leaving or have left town, and the bands I'm playing in are the bands that have the last 2!) I love that situation, because it keep egos in check... the knowledge that NO ONE is irreplaceable... As far as the "Kids" thing goes... agree to dissagree sure, but I'd suggest you check out any 'child psych' book worth it's salt... any good marrage councelor these days will tell people that staying together for the sake of the kids is the exact wrong thing to do... but that's a whole different thread on (hopefully) a whole different message board... peace folk, and good music to ya! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: InOBU Date: 12 Jul 01 - 06:44 PM Gee Clinton: Correct me if I am wrong, but 1. You don't play traditional Irish music that deals with social causes, 2. You're band members don't live in NYC. Now part of the problem with New York is the insane rents, so folks who are happy with little money, can't live here. So, the pool is small. As to getting out, I'd get out of New York, if I didn't have to divorce my wife to do it. As to getting out of music, I think those who have posted to this site after hearing my music tells you why I don't quit, I happen to be writing about important issues which are as difficult to deal with as the bad little monkies. As to the wine with cheese crack, I was going to respond in kind, but, well, I will keep trying to keep this constructive and just chuckle to my self as I ponder the mental immage I am now relishing, suffice it to say, Spaw could do the immage justice with his particular brand of artistic ligistic usage. Cheers and good luck to all... Larry |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: kendall Date: 12 Jul 01 - 07:56 PM It's hard for me to imagine being in a band, let alone putting up with static from anyone. However, if I did find myself in that spot, I would have to ask myself, "What is my role in this? Why does this person always single me out?" |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Denise:^) Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:01 PM I've been thinking about this more since I posted previously, even thinking, "What is my role in this? Why does this person always single me out?" (as kendall stated.) I think a problem in *our* band is: 1--I am probably 10 years younger than our obnoxious fiddler, (she mentions my age a lot; I'm not particularly young, either...)but-- 2--I have more experience playing for dances, reenactments, etc., and have more close friends among the local "big name" contra dance music folks. In other words, it may be something akin to jealousy. The other 2 band members (we are 4!) don't fall under attack, possibly because they are somewhat more submissive, they play whatever tunes she announces without question OR other suggestions... (They are also younger than Mrs. Fiddler, but still older than I am!) I know that a lot of this thread has been folks responding, "Well, okay, then, LEAVE!", but it really has gotten me thinking. I know I can't tolerate it much longer--we only have 3 upcoming gigs scheduled (other gigs, I've scheduled with other folks--not an established "group," but people who'll agree to a gig or two, here and there), and the dulcimer player and I have agreed that we are just about finished with the group. It's not so easy to find good musicians who like the same music you do, are willing to put in time to make it good, and have compatible personalities... Still, I think I may settle for an agreeable person who is willing to practice! Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Phil Cooper Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:08 PM Denise, Sounds like you're on the right track. Music shouldn't be trial by combat. Sounds like there's a potential psychology Ph.D thesis going on at the moment. Best of luck. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: InOBU Date: 13 Jul 01 - 08:49 AM Hi Denise: As to any suggestions, Can you find a guitarist, and move to New York and joing Sorcha Dorcha? Last night's recording session didn't come off, a member needed on initial tracks overslept (for a 7pm session) and now is canciling next weeks recording session. Other than hireing Clinton Hammond as the band's manager, the only other thing I can think of is offering you a job! Do you play Irish music (Scottish will do... )? (This offer goes out to any Catters who want to work hard in a band that has been getting great reviews in spite of insufficient effort from members... who want to get better reviews from putting in superior effort... Larry |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: English Jon Date: 13 Jul 01 - 08:57 AM Jim and I formed a band that was supposed to be awkward, egocentric, obstroperous and narky from day one. Works rather well. And we get paid reasonably well. EJ |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GeorgeH Date: 13 Jul 01 - 09:06 AM Another one of those wrote disagreeing with . . Clinton Hammond stated; "No intelligent person stays together 'for the kids'..." However I'd say Clinton is 120% right in his statement (and it's not often I find myself strongly in agreement with him). Indeed. I'd say he was stating the obvious. What's your problem with the idea? And no, it's not something I can "agree to differ" over; I think it's a silly choice which is inevitably damaging for the kids . . G. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Marion Date: 13 Jul 01 - 09:53 AM Larry, I'll come and join your band in about 2-3 years if the offer still stands (figure I'd better learn to play my instruments first). In the meantime, I'll watch for an opportunity to say "Be good little monkies and play the damn music" out loud. Funniest post I've seen in a long time! Marion |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Celtic Soul Date: 13 Jul 01 - 12:18 PM George posted "Another one of those wrote disagreeing with . . "However I'd say Clinton is 120% right in his statement (and it's not often I find myself strongly in agreement with him). Indeed. I'd say he was stating the obvious. What's your problem with the idea? And no, it's not something I can "agree to differ" over; I think it's a silly choice which is inevitably damaging for the kids . . " I am realy sorry, but we're going to have to "agree to disagree" or I guess you'll have to be mad at me, because I simply can't agree that Mr. Hammonds assessment is always and 100% accurate in all cases. However, I would like to redirect this back to the intent of my post; It was just an analogy used to express the emotions involved when dealing with a bad band dynamic. It was never my intent to start a thread on marriage/commitment/children in this forum, and had I done so, I would have marked it BS. I hope my addressing Mr. Hammond so formally has not given people the impression that I am angry. Not at all. I would like to treat all here with the utmost respect, as I believe that this is a wonderfully intelligent, knowledgeable, and supportive community worthy of every courtesy. Truly! :D Friends?
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:13 PM We're all friends here... but can we not hijack this thread about band problems and turn it into divorce court! I quote..."that's a whole different thread on (hopefully) a whole different message board... " I find it hard to believe InOBU that New York has such a small pool of musicians that you can draw from... but what the hell do I know... Tell me though.. what exactly is "traditional Irish music that deals with social causes", if it's not too much thread drift... I still don't really get it... if the band is that much of a pain in the ass to deal with, dissolve it and reform it... New York has tonnes of everything else... Other musicians MUST be there somewhere... |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Denise:^) Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:24 PM I don't live in New York, but we do have a lot of musicians around here! The problem we found, starting a band, was: 1. The type of music you (all) want to play--do some of you like old-timey stuff? Some of you want very new, pushing-the-envelope stuff? Somebody stuck in a minor-key jag? You *can* have a band that plays a wide variety of types--but then, you all have to AGREE to do that!! 2. People who want to make a long-term committment are rare! If you're going to be taking gigs from various venues, there will be practice time involved. For example, a Civil War reenactment requires period music...And I don't care what anyone says, if it's going to sound good--and TOGETHER--you will need to practice. No matter how good you are! So the problem isn't just locating warm bodies with an instrument in their hands--it's locating the right kind of warm bodies... ;^) Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Matt Woodbury/Mimosa Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:28 PM I tried taking some time off to go make music with another group, when I came back, (Union gig - had to call in the union to enforce my return to the organization)things hadn't changed much, but it's been easier to blow off the garbage.
I took up harp about 5.5 years ago so I could accompany myself instead of relying on other musicians. It meant I had to learn new genres, which brought me here, and it opened up whole new vistas. Sometimes a change is a good as a vacation. Mimosa |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:39 PM re: your last sentence, Denise I love it when ya talk dirty!!! ;-P~~~~ |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Celtic Soul Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:54 PM Guest Denise said "2. People who want to make a long-term committment are rare! If you're going to be taking gigs from various venues, there will be practice time involved. And I don't care what anyone says, if it's going to sound good--and TOGETHER--you will need to practice. No matter how good you are!" Good point! This is why sometimes the hard personal stuff is worth weathering. I would agree with others too though. There is definately a point when you need to consider calling it quits, but that is something that each individual person would have to figure out for themselves, wouldn't most agree? I work with a band, and it can sometimes be a real pain in the keester. What keeps me going when times are rough is that when we are on stage, the years of performing together makes a real difference. The music/performance has matured over time (even if we haven't!) ;D
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: InOBU Date: 13 Jul 01 - 01:58 PM Hi Clinton: There was a time (1970's) when there were lots of Irish musicians and good ones in New York. Then, folks like Gerry Coyne (of Gerry Coyne's jig, - he laugh about that!) was living in a flat for $20 a month. Then he was in a place that went for about 60, then 300, then he moved to Boston. Rents for a single room in my neighbor hood average from $800 to 1,000 - and this is suposed to be a working class neighborhood. So, you have a lot of lawyers and such playing Irish music, LOTS of computor folks stock market analists (should be a Y in there somewhere, but damned if I know where or care much I guess - sorry), well lots of folks who are musicans a distant second in their lives. As to socially concious Irish music, I grew up in a ballad family and we do a lot of very old music which I tend to choose for this band, songs of marginalized people, but I also write in a traditional mode, songs about the issues of our day which effect us or should, the murder of Roma (gypsies) the forced assimilation of American natives and the racial blindness that leads to killing by police, (Amadou Diallo... Here is an example of one of my songs... Centuries of Pain The Ballad of Amadou Diallo Lorcan
Amadou was born, where humanity sprang from,
He came to a land of gold, where his homeland's wealth was sold,
Coming home one night, in his hallway's stark white light,
A mother came to take, her son back to lie |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: GUEST,Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:11 PM Playing with Opera here, so no cookie... Umm... so that's indicative of the kind of music you play InOBU? Interesting... Not my cup of tea, but interesting none the less... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Rick Fielding Date: 13 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM Larry, that is a beautifully crafted lyric, and should at least be in Sing-Out. Is it? Rick |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Lonesome EJ Date: 13 Jul 01 - 04:38 PM Many shots then blazed, Amadou stood amazed. I like the song but have trouble with that line, Larry. "Amazed" is something I associate with surprise birthday parties or unexpectedly high restaurant bills, not with being shot 46 times. Sorry to nit-pick. |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Clinton Hammond Date: 13 Jul 01 - 04:41 PM Aghast might be better? not that I'm trying to tell you how to write yer art InOBU! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: M.Ted Date: 13 Jul 01 - 10:54 PM I am lucky enough to have one of Larry's tapes, which I play a lot while in my car--This song always gets great responses from my passengers, both for the powerful lyrics and for the haunting quality of the pipes--I hope that, whatever your problems with the group, you manage to get a good studio recording so that the world at large can hear it-- |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: InOBU Date: 14 Jul 01 - 10:20 AM Thanks to all... A few notes... Amazed... Apparantly, Amadou wa dead before he hit the gound, from the first shot, and 40 of the 41 shots that hit him were fired into his body as he lay unmoving on in his hallway. I have read often, that even in battle the first impression on being shot is surprise, even before fear of death. In Amadou's case death followed so suddunly, the first shot when right through his heart, my impression is that he was called - not by name, he turned to see guns pointing at him, and in the same instant, as he may or may not have with drawn his wallet to show that he was not the person sought, or to provide identification as is often done in other countries, to his amazement, no other warnings where given but suddunly all was light and noise, no pain, just instant shock. Beradette Devlin McCalisky told us that there is no pain in being shot the shock is so instant and intence. Amazement, as any other though takes some reflection. Sing Out? Nope, but our brother Keven McGrath has kindly put it in one of his pub song broadside pamplets. Anyone with a contact at Sing Out, be my guest to introduce me. I went to school in the old days, at a little red school - Downtoen Community School, with Nini Mendendez, who's father was the publisher of Sing Out at the time. I would be deeply honnored. As to band troubles, I don't know, the answer offered by a band member this morning, to the delema of our guitarst blowing off the next recording session, now as YEARS pass since I wrote Amadou, is to record some of her tunes on that day. What can you do? This is the same member who said, "in thirty years of playing music I have not gotten the responce you have to your songs..." I despair, and am desparate, and if you haven't been there, you can't comprehend the pain... I write from the heart, to people with heart, and am surrounded by heartless musicians. I have to single out one band member in this, Gina, who sings and plays the flute, but without the core of the band cooperating, we are dead in the water and there is water coming over the gunnel. Cheers! (he said with a note of irony!) Larry |
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Subject: RE: What to do when good bands go bad From: Amos Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:35 AM Ah, Larry, hang tough. It is such a different skill to manage a group than it is to create fine art in any form, than it often boggles the mind of the sensitive artist trying to manage a small group. It is not that the managing is "hard", just that it calls for a set of skills an artist per se never thinks about. Such as giving orders in acceptable forms and making them stick, knowing when to use honey and when to use a big stick, and so on... You'll make it -- dinna despair! A |
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