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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: Taconicus Date: 26 Sep 23 - 10:29 PM As I'm sure has been said earlier in this ancient thread (I didn't read through all of it), yes, the song has long been in the public domain, although there may be newer arrangements and lyrics that may still be under copyright. And also, the name of the place is Mormond Hill, not Mormon Hill. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: Taconicus Date: 26 Sep 23 - 10:29 PM As I'm sure has been said earlier in this ancient thread (I didn't read through all of it), yes, the song has long been in the public domain, although there may be newer arrangements and lyrics that may still be under copyright. And also, the name of the place is Mormond Hill, not Mormon Hill. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 18 - 02:39 PM Many years ago I was informed that South Tarwathie was the farm mentioned in the song and I stay locally to the area. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: Gordon Jackson Date: 20 Jun 18 - 03:54 AM Hi Medievallassie, I agree in part with you about Comhaltas; I think many adjudicators are OK, but the organisation itself is pretty pants. Many of the senior people are not musicians themselves (a bit like many football administrators who have never kicked a ball). They - and many others - fail to understand that a song or a tune can BECOME traditional, if it adopted by the musicians in that tradition. I wonder how Comhaltas would feel about She Moved Through the Fair? The tune is traditional, although the words were composed by Padraic Colum; it has been pretty well assimilated into the traditional music canon. Some people, like some of those in Comhaltas, have the rather simplistic view that if you don't know the composer, it's trad, but if you do know the composer, it's not trad. On this basis, I'd be happy enough to sing Farewell to Tarwathie as a traditional song, whilst acknowledging George Scroggie's part in its creation. Personally, I think the words work better as song lyrics than as a poem. Gordon |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Jun 18 - 12:57 AM Hi, DTM - there are no easy answers, but it does appear that both the tune and lyrics of this song are in the public domain. But sure as heck, you'll find a lawyer somewhere who will disagree. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: medievallassie Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:33 PM You are correct, Gordon Jackson, that I didn't get my facts completely straight but it was more a matter of not being very clear in my answer than being completely off-base. Farewell to Tarwathie as I understand it was a poem that was never truly intended to be a song but became a beautiful one when it was paired with a tune in the 1800's/1900's. The version that everyone tends to know and sing now is the one that was arranged by Judy Collins and others during the folk revival. In fact, Judy Collins is erroneously given credit for the song on numerous sites which is a major problem with the internet. Anyway, the original tune and the 60's version are just different enough to me to think of them as two separate songs. Another point that I was too lazy to include but that makes me go with the "non-trad" label is that it wasn't a song in the first place but became one later. When looking for songs for a fleadh cheoil, I was disappointed to learn that all of the Thomas Moore songs I enjoy singing didn't qualify as trad either. Even though Moore chose the traditional tunes himself to accompany his poems AND they were all certainly old enough, The fact that they were formally composed, many as poems originally, they weren't passed down in the accepted oral tradition of a true trad song. I know that Fleadh adjuticators are a CRAZY bunch and frankly don't think most of them have the heart and soul of a song on their radar but...I do have a general gut feeling about what they consider a trad song. I don't always agree with them, but they don't pay me for my opinions anyway, ! :-) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: GUEST,DTM Date: 18 Jun 18 - 01:46 PM It would be handy if there was a World data base where you could go and find out if a song or tune is in or out of copyright. This would surely be a godsend to both the 'borrowers' and the original composers alike. Pleeeeeeeeeeeease. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: Gordon Jackson Date: 18 Jun 18 - 03:29 AM Without wanting to get into a debate on the meaning of 'traditional', I'm puzzled by your assertion that Farewell to Tarwathie was written in the 60s. I assume you mean the 1960s? If you read through this thread you will see that the words were written in the 1850s by George Scroggie, and published in 1857, so you're a little bit out. The tune is more of a problem. It was likely an existing traditional tune was used by Bert Lloyd to set the words to, but which one? Green Bushes has been mentioned as a contender, although the versions I have (Baring-Gould, Sharp (2) and some others) are quite different. Still, singers have been pairing pre-existing lyrics and tunes since ... well, they've/we've been doing it for a long time. That just shows that the tradition is alive and evolving, and that, for me, makes it healthy. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: medievallassie Date: 17 Jun 18 - 11:02 PM I'm going to say that it would not be considered a true "trad" by my definition simply because it is one that was written during the heyday of the Irish/Folk revival in the 60's. My research a few years ago into what would constitute a trad song was very organic...there wasn't a distinct line between trad songs and other works but generally the trad songs are older, passed down in the oral tradition and were not written down initially. The written versions of trad songs came about as a way to preserve them. So many lovely tunes from the 60's and 70's were written in a trad style, but simply don't have the age and the history that trad songs do. Now that I have said that, there are any number of other folk who will give you a different opinion lol! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: GUEST Date: 24 May 18 - 04:14 PM So is the tune trad? Is the song in Public Domain? I've sifted quickly through the posts but didn't seem to pick up anything conclusive. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: GUEST Date: 23 May 18 - 09:55 PM Liam Clancy did a nice version..also the title of his 1975 LP |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: GUEST,Jim I Date: 23 May 18 - 07:44 PM In reply to Taconicus (on 03 Jan 11 ) As to the Rettie family and the Scroggies. Robert Mutch and Isabella Shand had a son James who married Elspet Morrison. Their daughter Catherine Scroggie married George BArron or Brown in June 1868. One of their daughters (name unknown) married a Rettie and their son George Rettie was born c.1889. He appears, aged 2, in the 1891 census at Methlick, Aberdeenshire. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: RunrigFan Date: 23 May 18 - 03:24 PM https://mainlynorfolk.info/lloyd/songs/farewelltotarwathie.html |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Farewell to Tarwathie--in public domain?? From: RunrigFan Date: 23 May 18 - 03:16 PM As sung by Robert Lovie Fareweel tae Tarwathie, adieu Mormond Hill And the dear land o Crimond, I bid ye fareweel I am bound out for Greenland and ready tae sail In hopes to find riches in hunting the whale Adieu to my comrades, for a while we must pairt And likewise the dear lass wha fair won my hairt The cold ice of Greenland, my love will not chill I am bound out for Greenland and ready tae sail Awhile I must leave you and go to the sea Wish luck, on the bonnie ship that I am gone wi’ And when I am sailing upon the wide main Be cheerful and happy till I come back again Our ship is weel rigged and she’s ready to sail Our crew they are anxious, to follow the whale Where the icebergs do float, and the stormy winds blaw Where the land and the ocean are covered wi snaw The cold coast of Greenland is barren and bare Nae seed-time nor harvest is ever known there And The birds here sing sweetly over mountain and dale But there isnae a birdie to sing tae the whale Theres no habitation for a man to live there And The king of that country’s the fierce Greenland bear There’ll be nae temptation tae tarry lang there Wi oor ship bumper fu we will homeward repair |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Steve Gardham Date: 01 Jul 16 - 10:09 AM This marvellous thread, what Mudcat does best! |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 16 - 12:57 AM :-) Nice |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,Ove Ofteness Date: 30 Jun 16 - 10:57 PM "Farewell, Angelina" (MY take on it.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uB2uGYhN60 |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Tootler Date: 12 Jan 13 - 06:50 AM I sing Farewell to Tarwathie in G. Chords I found included a minor chord; so like this: Fare[G]well to Tar[Em]wathie, a[C]dieu Mormond [G] Hill And the dear land of [Em] Crimond, I [C] bid you fare[G]well I'm [G] bound all for [Em] Greenland and [D] ready to [G] sail In the hopes to find [Em] riches in [D] hunting the [G] whale. I like the Em, it adds colour to the accompaniment. Ian Campbell sings (sang) "With our ship unco' full we'll homeward repair". Unco' in that context is a strong form of "very". I like it better than "bumper full" even if that's what Greig & Duncan collected. As to Mormond Braes, I also know the tune as the one in the clip linked by Tattie Bogle in Oct 11. The same tune is in Norman Buchan's 101 Scottish Songs My Mother and Grandmother (from Stoneywood, just North of Aberdeen) were always a bit sniffy about Robin Hall's and Jimmie McGregor's Glasgow accents on that song. Nevertheless, their "Scottish Choice" album is still one of my favourites. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 13 Oct 11 - 01:19 PM Oops, that should have been REPLIED! My grandfather and great-grandfather also came from Aberdeenshire: my great-grandfather, William B Morren wrote a lot of poems and short stories about local life under the pen-name of Coreen: they were published in the Aberdeen evening paper. He then compiled them into booklets and sod them for 1/- (one shilling) per book: all this after he had been invalided during the First World War in France, and he gave the proceeds to help the war effort. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Tattie Bogle Date: 13 Oct 11 - 01:14 PM Sorry I never relied to MGtheM in Sept 09 re Mormond Braes: the tune I know is as in the clip sung by Robin Hall and Jimmie McGregor (or also the Corries). I think "The Trooper and the Maid" is different. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp5yAJ7DgiE |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,Dibbs Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:00 AM Ian Campbell does it in E A E ie (E)Farewell to Tarwathie (A)adieu Mormond (E) Hill and of course the rest is in A and E but I have seen it posted up in D G D too |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,guest nikkit Date: 14 Sep 11 - 01:18 PM re my last post, i am the descendent who never really knew about him, it would be quite interesting to find out some more about him as he was my gr gr grandfather |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 11 - 11:43 AM I am also a descendent of George Scroggie the wesleyan preacher and had never known about him until recently when tracing my family history, I think I might have to order a copy of the book now to pass down to my ancestors |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: BrooklynJay Date: 22 May 11 - 02:26 PM Earlier in this thread, Joe Offer posted a transcription of the lyrics as adapted by Judy Collins. I seem to detect one tiny little error: The line should be "the icebergs do float" rather than "fall." Surprisingly enough, there were errors in the lyrics on Judy Collins's own website. Proving once again that when you want lyrics - and a nice amount of background information - the first stop should be Mudcat. Jay |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,Jim I Date: 21 May 11 - 05:57 PM Still looking at my Scroggie relations and I can say that George Scroggie was never a miller and it is most unlikely he went to sea. From his teenage years c.1840 to his early 30's he was a farm labourer. He became a book deliverer in the late 1850s possibly as a result of his foray into writing. In the 1860s he moved to England as a Wesleyan missionary and seems to have stayed there until at least 1901. It was his son George (born 1848) who become a miller, a job he stayed at till 1899 when a sack of meal dropped on his head and killed him. Then HIS son george (born 1871) took over as miller. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Taconicus Date: 03 Jan 11 - 12:59 PM Thanks to Robert McMaster for the above post. Some notes… Tarwaithe does exist, not only as a farm but apparently (as mentioned above by Megan L) also as a location. The annual Strichen Festival of traditional music (in late May, if anyone would like to go), put on by the Buchan Heritage Society, gives the following address for the festival : South Tarwathie, Strichen, Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire. Yes it is actually Mormond Hill (I've seen it; it's bare and quite unimpressive except for the large collection of communication antennas atop it), but the Scroggie poem spells it Mormon (whether in error by Scroggie or in the re-typing by Dwight Rettie [see below], or because the spelling of the place later changed, I don't know). As far as I know, it's not impossible that Scroggie went to sea as a youth, but, as others have noted, there is no evidence of it. The US Library of Congress has a copy of Scroggie's "The Peasant's Lyre" with the text retyped in 1986 by Dwight Rettie, who apparently obtained the book as a remainder from a library in Aberdeen, Scotland. I wonder if the various publications (here and elsewhere) of the Scroggie poem were taken directly from the original text of "The Peasant's Lyre" or were taken from the Library of Congress' 1986 retyped publication of the original book, available online, which retyping introduces the possibility of an error in transcription by Rettie. Opposite the Contents page is written the following: The text of "The Peasant's Lyre" was given to Dwight Faw Rettie (b.1930) of Arlington, Virginia, by the Aberdeen Public Library in Aberdeen, Scotland. Dwight is the son of James Cardno [1904-69] and Lois Chloey Morris Rettie (b.1908), both born in Fossil, Oregon. Research on sometime poet George Scroggie has not yet turned up very much, but Lois has information that by recent marriage, at least, the Retties and the Scroggies are related. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,Robert Date: 20 Dec 10 - 04:30 PM This posting is directed to GUEST, JimI RE: Farewell to Tarwathie JimI, if you read this please feel free to contact me at: rmcmaster@knockgrafton.com to further discuss our family connection. Who wrote: Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,JimI Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:14 PM By a strange coincidence I have been looking at my father's ancestors recently. My great, great, great, grandmother was the aunt of George Scroggie, miller and lay preacher, who was born in Old Deer, Aberdeenshire in 1827. Well, by another strange coincidence my great, great grandmother on my mother's side was Bridget Scroggie(Nylon) who married George's brother Robert Alexander, and immigrated to Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. I have a photographic portrait of my mother Gladys Lois Hamilton (age aprox. 6 months)surrounded by her mother Cicil Hamilton, her grandmother Mary McLoad, and her Great Grandmother Bridget Scroggie(Nylon), my great-great Grandmother. The photo was take in a studio in Sarnia, Ontario in the later part of 1911. The face of Bridget Scroggie is the perfect storybook face of an elder Scots/Irish women... Oh, the stories in just that face. My mother and my grandmother moved from the Sarnia area with my father, Walter McMaster in the early 1940's and re-located in St. Catharines, Ontario, near Niagara Falls, where I was born (1947) and raised. I now live in London, Ontario, about an hour's drive from Sarnia. I remember visiting some of my mother's relatives in the Sarnia and Detroit in the early 1950s. I found it very interesting that George Scroggie was the author "Farwell to Tarwathie", and an ancestor of mine. "Farewell to Tarwathie" was one of my favorite folk songs from the 1960/70s when I first heard it sung by Judy Collins. It is a song that has stuck with me all my life, almost haunted by it. And to find it was written by a long past family member... could there be some kind of genetic remembrance at work? Hummmm??? My research on George Scroggie shows he was a farmer, but also a poet, who wrote about those who toiled on the lands and in the sea. He may never had gone to sea himself, but he must have had many friends who did. As for Tarwathie, it was/is a farm near Strichen, Aberdeenshire and,up to 1986,the long time family home of the Cardno family, who were related by marrage to the Scroggie family. Over the years many of the Cardno's took to the sea as "Artic Whalermen", the last being Davie Cardno, who passed away, March 15, 1938. The obituary from the Buchan Observer : 15th March 1938 read: Davie Cardno sails home : Mr David Cardno, Peterhead, one of the last and best known of our whalermen, died at the home of a relative in Aberdeen last week at the age of eighty-four. He made his first voyage to the Arctic as a boy seventy-three years ago by stowing away aboard one of the local fleet of whalers, and for over forty years engaged in the whaling and sealing expeditions to Baffin Land and other parts of the frozen north. In the Aberdeenshire area fifteen whaling vessels were on the 1851 crew list showed Peterhead as their hail port; 2 whaling vessels (including the ENTERPRISE) showed Aberdeen. The men ranged in age from 19 to 50. All of the whaling vessels were under sail. In 1851, just six years before George Scroggie published his little book of poetry, there were perhaps close to a dozen whalermen from Aberdeenshire, any one of whom might have been the person in "Farewell to Tarwathie," intending "To follow the whale." Even though George Scroggie 'was just a farmer' he knew the men of the sea, and he wrote with love and loyolity of his friends, farmer and whalerman, alike... and I'm proud to be desended from such stock. My finding came from many sources including researh done by the Cardno-Rettie family. A bit about my background: I am a full-time musician, percussionist who works in the almost traditional field, performing original music, much of which is based on old Celtic (Scots/Irish) tales and legends composed by my partner Celtic harpist, vocalist & storyteller Jennifer White. I'm also a sometimes writer editorials, poetry and story-songs (a three chords and a capo type folkie guitar player) Our music website isat: www.knockgrafton.com Any way... this has been a thrill to find there is still so much interest in "Farewell to Tarwathie", thank you for reading this far and letting me be part of it all. JimI, if you read this, please contact. Robert McMaster (SoundScape Percussionist) Knockgrafton Productions London, Ontario, Canada www.knockgrafton.com |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: evansakes Date: 31 Dec 09 - 08:07 AM Sorry if this link has already been posted....here's Judy Collins singing it live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV29xK2xyZ4 |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Amos Date: 26 Sep 09 - 02:22 PM HEre's a moving-picture rendition as sung by Judy Collins--lovely images. A |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: dilly daly of Adelaide Date: 05 Sep 09 - 02:08 AM Taconicus,thanks for the chords.just so i've got it do you mean CCCC,CCCC,FFFF,CCCC,CCCCC for first 5 bars of song. The version i'm listening to seems a bit more complex- Tramps and Hawkers-The Nightingale, album.It's a beautifull song.They call it "Farewell to Tarwathy" |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: weerover Date: 04 Sep 09 - 04:01 PM Robyn, You're right of course, a wee senior moment on my part. wr |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: MGM·Lion Date: 04 Sep 09 - 01:44 PM The tune I knew to Mormond Braes is very similar to the Trooper & The Maid - the 'Bonnie lassie I'll lie near ye version'. Is that yours also, Tattie Bogle? I miss Sandy too — in an odd way becoz I haven't seen him or heard from him since he was here in 1958 - when, however, he & Caroline were dear friends: I remember his coming to, it must have been my 26th birthday party in Hampstead, & holding everyone spellbound by his singing. I don't think Caroline was there that evening - she had only recently had their firstborn. But though more than half-a-century has passed, I hate the fact that he just isn't out there any more! |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,JimI Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:14 PM By a strange coincidence I have been looking at my father's ancestors recently. My great, great, great, grandmother was the aunt of George Scroggie, miller and lay preacher, who was born in Old Deer, Aberdeenshire in 1827. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: MORMOND BRAES From: Tattie Bogle Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:39 AM Mormond Hill doesn't look so pretty any more: covered in huge satellite dishes, radar, mobile phone masts, etc. Thanks to all the posters who have made this such an interesting thread. By sheer coincidence I've just posted the words of "Mormond Braes" on another thread, so here they are again (at least, the version I know: some people alter the order of the verses): MORMOND BRAES As I gaed doon by Strichen toon, I heard a fair maid mournin', And she was makin' sair complaint For her true love ne'er returnin'. Chorus: Sae fare ye weel, ye Mormond Braes, Where aft-times I've been cheerie; Fare ye weel, ye Mormond Braes, For it's there I've lost my dearie. There's as guid fish intae the sea As ever yet was taken, So I'll cast my net and try again For I'm only aince forsaken. Chorus There's mony a horse has snappert an' fa'n An' risen again fu' rarely, There's mony a lass has lost her lad An' gotten anither richt early. Chorus Sae I'll put on my goon o' green, It's a forsaken token, An' that will let the young lads ken ( or - let the ither loons ken) That the bonds o' love are broken. Chorus Sae I'll gyang back tae Strichen toon, Whaur I was bred an' born(in'), An' there I'll get anither sweetheart, Will marry me the morn(in'). Chorus |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Little Robyn Date: 30 Aug 09 - 07:00 AM weerover, IanC on 12 Oct 01 wrote: Bob Dylan borrowed the tune for his "Farewell, Angelina", recorded by Joan Baez. Robyn |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,Dani Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:45 PM Lord, I miss Sandy. Dani |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Megan L Date: 29 Aug 09 - 12:30 PM Mormond Braes are 3 miles north east of Strichen in Aberdeenshire and would have been well known to anyone working or living around the farm of Tarwathie. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Reiver 2 Date: 29 Aug 09 - 12:15 PM Joe Offer: You were right. It's Mormond Hill, not Mormon Hill. There's recording on You Tube by the Corries that's of particular interest in that both Roy Williamson and Ronnie Browne are playing Combolins, the stringed multiple-instrument that [I believe] was "invented" or conceived by Williamson. It's worth a look and listen just for that. Reiver 2 |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Megan L Date: 29 Aug 09 - 06:05 AM Tarwathie is a farm name in Strichen Aberdeenshire (Tarwathie Strichen, Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire AB43, UK) |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,weerover Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:30 AM Surprised no one else has mentioned that Dylan pinched the opening part of the tune for "Farewell Angelina" wr |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: goatfell Date: 29 Aug 09 - 05:26 AM tarwathie doesn't exist |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Taconicus Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:42 AM Ah, sorry--didn't notice the "as sung by the Nightingales" part. I don't know how they sing it. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Taconicus Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:40 AM I sing it in just C and F, like this: C,-,F,C,- |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: dilly daly of Adelaide Date: 29 Aug 09 - 03:32 AM Does anyone have the chords for this great song as sung by the Nightingales "tramps and hawkers" album. please.Terrific tune. Farewell to Tarwathie Farewell to Tarwathie, adieu Mormond Hill And the dear land of Crimond, I bid you farewell I'm bound out for Greenland and ready to sail In hopes to find riches in hunting the whale Farewell to my comrades, for a while we must part And likewise the dear lass who first won my heart The cold coast of Greenland my love will not chill And the longer my absence, more loving she'll feel Our ship is well rigged and she's ready to sail The crew they are anxious to follow the whale Where the icebergs do fall and the stormy winds blow Where the land and the ocean is covered with snow The cold coast of Greenland is barren and bare No seed-time nor harvest is ever known there And the birds here sing sweetly in mountain and dale But there's no bird in Greenland to sing to the whale There is no habitation for a man to live there And the king of that country is the fierce Greenland bear And there'll be no temptation to tarry long there With our ship bumper full we will homeward repair Farewell to Tarwathie, adieu Mormond Hill And the dear land of Crimond, I bid thee farewell We're bound out for Greenland and ready to sail In hopes to find riches in hunting the whale |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 23 Nov 07 - 04:45 AM 'Supplied by' doesn't mean 'made up by'. It may well be that Dave is right that Bert was thinking of 'Rye Whisky', but as you say, the tune was also used -in various forms and at various times- for 'Fair Flower', 'Green Bushes', and plenty of other songs. |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: GUEST,PMB Date: 23 Nov 07 - 03:38 AM If the tune was supplied by Bert Lloyd, what is the source of the similar tune (if you skip the refrain) now commonly used for "Fair Flower of Northumberland"? |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Art Thieme Date: 23 Nov 07 - 12:38 AM "City Four Square" -- also on that record -- was also a favorite of mine. What a great voice that old ballad singer had. Art |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Art Thieme Date: 23 Nov 07 - 12:34 AM I'll always remember Horton Barker singing At The Foot Of Yonder Mountain at the first U. Of Chicago Folk Festival -- February 3,4, & 5, 1961. And just now I remembered that it was you, Sandy, who recorded that first album of Mr. Barker's for Folkways Records. If you would, please tell how and why that wasn't issued by Folk Legacy?! Love to you and Caroline!! Art |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Sandy Paton Date: 23 Nov 07 - 12:23 AM So, where did the song sung on this side of the Atlantic that I learned as "At the Foot of Yonders Mountain" originate, if not somewhere in Britain? I'm pretty sure it's in Sharp's "English Folk-Songs from the Southern Appalachians," or am I misremembering and just too lazy to go upstairs to check the book. That's the song I was singing when MacColl informed me that there was a fine old whaling song from the northeast of Scotland that had the same tune. I would not be at all surprised to learn that Lloyd cobbled together a good text with a good tune, but I suspect it was not "Rye Whiskey" he was thinking of when he did it, if he did it. I'd bet it would have been the "Yonders Mountain" song Sharp published, instead. Is the "Green Bushes" tune identical? |
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Subject: RE: Farewell to Tarwathie-----in public domain?? From: Art Thieme Date: 22 Nov 07 - 06:55 PM A most fascinating discussion! Feels like the wondrous Spancil Hill thread. Art Thieme |
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