American ancestry

Subject: American ancestry
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 05:58 AM

Purely in the interests of seeking information,and not wishing to be in any way controversial, are there any people in the USA or Canada who are not of Irish or Scottish extraction?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Gareth
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:09 AM

Well, theres a branch of my familly, around Phillidelphia, who are of Welsh Descent.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:18 AM

Me Mum's only Irish by marrige, A Romni (Gypsy) and Russian, and we had a german dog, or alsatian which ever you want to call it, a police dog, so we named her Phuzzz. But, I supose the police conection made Phuzzz to some degree Irish... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:18 AM

While I've got some Irish and Scottish, I also have French, English, and German. And some of my Irish, Scottish, and English come by way of Canada and Bermuda. So I suppose I can say I've got some Canadian and Bermudan as well.

Maybe you ought to make a trip over here, though, and see for yourself, because this country is full of people from pretty much every region and country in the world.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:20 AM

greg, just think of a nation... and dont forget the Native Americans...

Jon

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:33 AM

P.S. And there's an awful lot of us. 255,600,000 (estimated) as of 1992, according to my Cambridge Factfinder.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:35 AM

Oops. Just re-read the first post. I'm speaking for the US of course, and not for Canada.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:41 AM

Hi, Greg:

My Grandmother and Grandfather on my Father's side were born and raised in Denmark and came over here as young adults. They met in a small church in a Danish settlement in Wisconsin. My Grandmother Mara came over as a maid to the Diamonds, who owned the Diamond Match Company... still the biggest match company here, I think. My Grandfather Lars was a tinsmith in Denmark. As the song says,

"Grandpa was a tinsmith, the foreman of the shop
Grandma worked for Diamond's, she started at the top And even though the dreams they had, never quite came true
They passed them on to Daddy, and to me when he was through

My Mother's Father was a Holliday, a descendent of Doc Holliday, sidekick of Wyatt Erp. Her side of the family was of French and Scotch descent.

Neither side of my family carried on any traditions from their heritage, so I might as well be twelfth generation Amurican. I've picked up some Scandinavian music through time, and when my wife and I were married, we had an African/Danish wedding. Plenty of African music, art and clothing to chose from, but very little Danish. Seems like almost all the Scandinavians in this country are Swedish or Norwegian. Maybe Denmark is so great there's no one who wants to leave. ;-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: RangerSteve
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:52 AM

Mexican, Peruvian, Scottish, Dutch and Native American.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:00 AM

Other countries and/or continents represented in my family (that I'm aware of) are: Vietnam, Africa, Mexico, Poland, Italy, and Russia, as well as Native American.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:24 AM

According to what I have read, my ancestors originated in Norway, went south to France (Vikings) settled in Normandy, took up with William the Conquorer, invaded England in 1066, changed the name from DeMors to Morse, settled in Marlboro. Then in 1635 two brothers came to America, bred like cod fish and well...there goes the neighborhood. As far as I know, there is no Irish in my family, but, thanks to Seamus Kennedy, I had some Scotch in me the other night. Oh, and my mother claims there is some Dutch.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:27 AM

According to this US Census Bureau site for 2000, the largest ancestral group reported by US citizens on the census questionnaire is German, followed by Irish, then English, and then US or American. Scottish and Scottish Irish is pretty far down the list.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:27 AM

Kendall! We have a common ansestor! Willy the C! CHeers, fellow decendant of Rollo! CHeers Larry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:43 AM

Do any Americans ever describe themselves as English Americans? Why is this description so rarely heard? Is it likely that English descent was simply not reported on census returns?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:43 AM

Plenty, my friend...they just don't post here. :D

I work with Africans (meaning straight from Africa), African-Americans (families having been here for generations) Hispanics of many different nationalities (some straight from their country of origin, some 2nd or 3rd generation), Thai, Viet Namese, Phillipinos, and my daughters Fathers family are German and Polish without a lick of any celtic blood whatsoever.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:49 AM

Keith A of Hertford, English seems to be sort of the default assumption if people don't give any other sort of ancestry.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Amos
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:51 AM

The fastest growing segment of our national population is Hispanic; it is expected, according to some pseudo experts, that by 2050 the white population will be a minority.

It's probably the case though that they will be the most vocal minority ever heard! :>)

A

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:56 AM

And when the dominant US culture is referred to, we refer to Anglo American culture, not English American. Latinos have shortened it to Anglo, which also gets used a lot. Just not by the Anglos/Anglo Americans themselves. That is how the rest of us refer to them.

In the US, "folk" music is a genre of music associated with Anglo dominant culture more than any other. The rest of us refer to our own music traditions as "German" music, or "Italian" music. The folk hybrid is a British thing, and only really popular amongs the British North Americans, and those who have assimilated into that culture, or the real Anglophiles. One need only watch the Oscar show to see how alive and well Anglophilia is in the US.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:56 AM

Norweigan, Frisian, fur trade French Canadian, English. Also, the census bureau doesn't count African Americans as a single ethnic group (they'd be the largest or second to Latin America). Their statistics are based on western european ideas of history and and ethnicity as nation-based.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:02 AM

Rolfyboy6,

The US census bureau doesn't count race and ancestry as the same animal at all, and it is truly bizarre how they come up with one being race, and the other being ancestry.

It is also important to remember that the figures reflect self-reporting. There is no way to verify the accuracy of what people claim on their census questionnaires.

Also, the census is not allowed to gather information about religion, so Jews don't get counted at all.

It is truly bizarre.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:06 AM

Rolfyboy...

Last census I filled out here in the states asked only of you were "African-American", "Caucasian (non Hispanic)", "Hispanic", "Native-American", or "Asian". They never asked what nationality the African-Americans were, or for that matter, anyone else was. And, how could they, realistically? Many blacks in the states cannot know their country of origin, having descended of slaves.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:17 AM

A quick read down the US Census Bureau's Ancestry list shows only three designations for the continent of Africa: Ethiopian, Nigerian, and sub-Saharan African.

However, there are many nationalities shared by blacks and whites, listed as ancestries: Barbadian, Belizean, British West Indian, Cape Verdean, Haitian, Jamaican...you get the picture.

Just goes to show how we tend to identify people in the US. First, by race, then by nationality although we choose to label nationality as ancestry. And finally, we push the religious labels under the table altogether.

One thing I do find interesting about the ancestry issue though. Eastern Europeans tend to identify more strongly with ancestry than nationality. For instance, we have one designation for Slovak, one for Slavic, and one for Slovenian.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:32 AM

This website gives a thumbnail sketch of how the breakdown works:

http://www.ats.ucla.edu/at/sp/data_libraries/census/RACETHN.htm

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM

Interesting observation about African-Americans. Us white folks tend to forget that African-Americans rarely can trace their ancestry back more than a couple of generations. Once they get back to slavery (which for older black Americans is just a couple of generations) they can't go back any further unless they can find old records that show where their grandparents or great grandparents were "harvested." My wife can only trace her family back two generations and has no idea what part of Africa her family originally came from.

Jerry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:45 AM

Actually, I don't think it is all that unusual for US citizens not to know where their ancestors come from in Africa, any more than Europe or Asia or South America once they are a couple of generations removed.

The demographics of the black population in the US has also changed considerably in the last 20 years, and the census reflects it. Many Caribbean immigrants, recent immigrants from Africa, etc. and they tend to identify their nations of origin as ancestry, as I indicated above.

It would be interesting to find out what % of the black population self-identifies as being African American descendants of slaves, and what % as not African American descendants of slaves. But they aren't given that option on the census the way Hispanics are given the option to be Hispanic/not Hispanic.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:47 AM

Got red hair. Got light skin and freckles. Got no Irish ancestors as far as I know. My Mom traced her side of the family back to the 1400s with some lines - most only back to 1600s, and most were English. I have a Scots great grandmother on my mom's side, and I wish I knew more about her.

A guy wrote a book on my Dad's side (from whence the complexion comes). The author believed that the line originated with the Helvitii. This would have put them in Switzerland. He says my surname has Celtic origins, and the first version of was found in Oise, France. Some ended up in England after the crusades. The name was anglicised, and they became establised there. There's a bit of evidence that some ended up in Ireland, but it doesn't look like any of my own ancestors were among them. The first one documented in the colonies was in 1620.

So there's some chance I have a Celtic ancestry, as in the tribe, not the language group, and no Irish or Scots (or any other national origin currently described as Celtic) ancestors on my Dad's side. Mainly Swiss, French, English and American - all in the same genetic line.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:50 AM

A lot of us whose families have come over recently aren't able to trace our families back more than a couple of generations either. I'm only able to go back to my great-grandparents on either side, although I've heard that one of my uncles or someone has traced part of my family farther than that.

But I think that for a lot of families like mine, which is only second and third generation US, little is known about the families prior to emigration.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 09:56 AM

Most folks I know aren't interested(truth be told) about their ancestors much beyond their great Grandparents. Me included. Once I get back to my Grandparents parents, that's as much as I can relate to. I have a family tree somewhere and if I set aside a month, I bet I could find it around her someplace. But, it doesn't really mean anything to me. I know very few people who actively try to trace their family tree back beyond their Grandparent's parents.

Jerry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Alice
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 10:03 AM

Surnames in my ancestry, Flynn (directly from Leitrim), Mossom (directly from Yorkshire), McConnell, and Bikel! My mom's line to us kids always was, "You're Irish, English, and Pennsylvania Dutch."

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 10:12 AM

It's rare that folks can trace their ancestry back very far. My Mom found it an interesting hobby, as did (I believe) the author of the book I mentioned above. They did it because they could, and they wanted to. My Mom got started on it and felt it was a challenge to see how far she could go with it. She loved the stories she discovered about ancestors more interesting than compiling data, and built on the genealogy already compiled by those who did it only to get into snooty organizations.

Folks who were adopted may not have any idea where even their birth parents came from. Others hit a dead end after a couple of generations. I think genealogy can be interesting, but I don't think it matters a hoot to who a person truly is.

It's like trying to find the roots of a song. It's interesting to see where it came from and how it evolved, but you'll still love the song you know, and you'll sing it no matter what.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Allan C.
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 10:21 AM

So far as I know, I am mostly human.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 11:57 AM

Allan C. said it,and I don't know where this thread can go after that!

Dave Oesterreich *

* (100% German ancestry, but so what?)

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 12:08 PM

LOL, Allan!

I love looking for roots and was given a great headstart by my uncle who traced my mom's dad's side way back to the 1500's in England. I've gone back to the 1600's on mom's mom's side. I am still working on my dad's parents. Cowboys didn't always keep as good of records.:-)

For a long time I always heard my mom's mom and dad were English. He was, but I found out a few years ago that she was Scottish, a member of the Ewing clan. There's some Irish in there, too, which I just recently discovered.

On my dad's side, we are Scottish, English, and Native American. Though, if I ever get back far enough, I am sure the "Hudson" has some Scandinavian roots, too.

CarolC, one of my ancestors was in Barbados. Maybe they traded sugar etc.?!

I have often wondered at the demographics of blacks in America. Until my son-in-law speaks people just assume he was born and raised here, instead of in Antigua.

Jeri, I was going to say you could have gotten your red hair, light skin and freckles from your Scottish grandma, like I did, but then I read on.:-) And, how come freckles fade? Did yours fade? I liked mine and they are still visible, but faded, darn it.*bg*

When I was growing up in Colorado we had high concentrations of Hispanics and Germans, still do.

IF anyone wants to really get into the genealogy thing, I started a forum over at Jon's Annexe last fall, with a lot of links posted by myself and others. When I have time, I don't mind looking a few things up for folks, either, as I do subscribe to the LDS/Mormons' ancestry.com site.

katwhosedadcallsheranancestorworshipper...mustabeenShintoinapastlife:-)

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 12:09 PM

Dave, where did your German ancestors come from? Where does anyone's ancestors come from? Migrating peoples before recorded history went all over the place. According to Leakey and some other anthropologists, we all originated in Africa.
Let's all compare DNA! He, he, he.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 12:22 PM

A few years ago, my gospel quartet was singing for a Little United Nations Day, and I found it humorous that as the leader of the quartet, I was the official spokesman for the African-American community (being white and of Midwestern ancestry.) But, as I said in introducing us, we're all from Africa, if you trace our roots back far-enough. I said that I am Danish/French/Scottish African-American.

Depends on how far back you want to trace your family tree.
You might literally find yourself in a tree.

Jerry

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 12:41 PM

I always assumed the Anglo prefix in this kind of context was more linguistic than anything, as in Anglophonic (cf Francophonic).

If, as has been stated, "the largest ancestral group reported by US citizens on the census questionnaire is German followed by Irish, then English", doesn't that mean that German should be "the default assumption if people don't give any other sort of ancestry"?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 12:51 PM

CarolC...

It was Uncle Paul. I have some or most of his research here.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:43 PM

English, German, Irish, French. My wife is Russian Jewish and English. I couldn't even begin to figure percentages. I don't think ancestry has a thing to do with the kind of music a person listens to/plays/enjoys.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Anahootz
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 01:55 PM

According to my family's history book, I am "9th generation son of Johann", one of 3 Austrian brothers that hopped the pond a bit ago. Along my Pa's side, the Austrian went outside their community about 4 generations ago, leaving a few generations of mixed Austrian-Nez Perce indian folk, me included(1/16th). Ma's side were the Squareheads...new family, straight off the Scandanavian halibut schooner. It just doesn't get squarer than "Skoog" for a family name. So no, none of the isles in me.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:13 PM

I have cousins in Chicago,Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, Middletown Penn, and other arts and parts of the US. Costs me a bloody fortune in Christmas Cards,Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST,Ursula's daughter
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 02:32 PM

Look here for an interesting discussion of ancestry Daughters of Eve

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 06:48 PM

As it happens, my people have always kept books, so it's not hard to trace one's own descent. I'm mostly German, on both sides, and some Swiss but it's possible there is also some French there, considering there is a long-time history in the Alsace (The Amish like the thought of German better. :))There was one wee orphan Irish lass by the name of Catherine Dunn who was adopted into the family in the 1850s, and who later married one of my ancestors and that's the only Irish we have.

Kat, the part we don't have, and that I would like to find, is the *human* element. How does one look up that kind of thing? I don't know if anyone in my family married someone of another race, (I do know about out-of-wedlock babies) or if there are any horse thieves, or any other kind of thief, any drunkards, any activists, any rebels... My ancestors (and contemporaries, for that matter) have been mostly farmers, carpenters and preachers. They tend to be pacifistic, so they don't go to war, they don't have phones, they don't own cars, they don't votem and they don't take part in community issues.

I find a lot of material on my family name on the Internet, but I really haven't found anything I didn't already know.

The older I get, the more interested I am in roots. To people who are not interested, I can only say that your grandchildren will have an H of a time finding their history! On the other hand, if each generation adds its bit to each slice of the loaf...

Ebbie

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:21 PM

McGrath, I think that default designation came about, not because of current numbers, but because of the fact that the original colonies (not including what used to be a part of Mexico) were English colonies. The wave of German immigrants came after that. What is now the US developed it's collective identity as being "English" (Anglo) in its early days and it doesn't seem to have lost that yet.

katlaughing, it could be. Were Bermuda and Barbados on the same trade route?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:46 PM

Thank you for your replies which are are of enormous interest. Obviously I posted the original question because I was interested in the fact that the enormous weight of postings in the the Mudcat forum reflect an interest amounting( to a Brit's perception) to an obsession with Scottish and Irish history. I wasintrigued with this, considering that anyone would imagine that vast amounts of English, German, Welsh, African, Spanish...etc etc you name it have gon to America. Even if we accept that English is the "default" position (though one ofthe letters suggests that German should take that place) it still seems odd that so few people discuss their English ancestry, Scandinavian history, Japanese religion, Native American songs or whatever.Anybody got any theories? Granted, the battles of the Boyne and Culloden are interesting, but I can think of a lot more events in human history that must affect American culture just as deeply. Any comments deeply welcome. I hope you will all realise that this is not some some shit-stirring stuff but of relevance to the musicwe all hold dear. I hope you won't mind adressing any more comments to the American Ancestry Part 2 thread I am now going to start, because I can't read threads much longer than 40 messages due to my cable tv system thanks a lot Gregxxxx

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:58 PM

greg, I suspect it's because the English ancestry goes so far back in the history of the US. People whose families go that far back tend to like the fact that they are of English ancestry, but they also are very proud of the fact that their families have been in "America" for so long. So it's usually the "American" history that they are more concerned with.

And immigrants from other countries who came here later were confronted with a national identity that was largely English, so they saw themselves as different, and many (although hardly all) groups of immigrants became what could be described as "cultural sub-groups".

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: DonD
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 07:59 PM

Identity crisis time! It surely doesn't bring us together that we inevitably identify oursselves as ****-American! As a Jew who has no religion (and count that as a 'missing' category) I think that it's culture, not geography or nationality or 'blood' that identifies us. we hang out with and are comfortable with people who share the same cultural background, who recognize the same foods, the same dialect, the same attitudes -- and meybe if I hang around long enough I'll identify myself when asked as a Mudcatter. My greatgrandmother lived in Leeds and was called Jane Gordon! - but she was the daughter of refugees from Russia (I think). Does that count for the survey?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:00 PM

Click here for new thread.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Joe_F
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 11:05 AM

My father's parents were Jews from Poland (then part of the Russian empire). It is not likely that any Scots or Irish got into that bloodline, tho you never can tell. (There is a family of Hamiltons among the Russian nobility -- see Child's documentation on "Mary Hamilton".) My mother's mother's maiden name was Magdalena Carolina Wilhelmina Augusta Oppermann, so she was presumably part of the large 19th-century German settlement in the middle west. My mother's father's name was Hughes, and he was a Methodist, so one presumes he was of Welsh descent -- but some branches of his ancestry had been in the U.S. from before the Revolution, so who can say what got mixed into that? Scots or Irish would be a pretty good bet.

Probably there are some Americans who could reasonably be guessed to have no ancesters from Scotland or Ireland. Say, the ones that came straight from the mountains of Vietnam. Their grandchildren, however, are likely to be open to suspicion.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: saulgoldie
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:36 AM

Hmmmm. Quite a few threads lately that have been resurrected from years of dormancy. I find many of them pretty interesting. But, hmmmm.

Anyway, my family lineage, at least as far back as I know, is from Russia, Poland, and Eastern Europe. Now, going waaay back, I cannot say that there wasn't some Irish or Scottish. But back to the mid 1800s or so, no.

Saul

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM

saul -

Many of the old dormant refreshes are by SPAMMERS. The mudelves delete the SPAM post, but the thread stays up.

Responding to the spammer is a no-no, but once it's been deleted, or if you want to "go around it," there's no harm in kicking a thread back to life if you've got something interesting to add.

Not African American, but my daddy's paternal line disappears about two generations back. I think it's cause his family were hidin' from anybody associated with the gummit, and "disappeared" when the census takers came around. The male line on my mom's side goes back about one generation further, but disappears then, possibly for the same reason.

Only one line in my "tree" traces verifiably back to the early 1600s on the east coast. That line came over from Holland, but they were only there briefly after they got kicked out of England.

By anecdote, my mother claimed English, Irish, Scots, Dutch and German, and there's "evidence" for all of those. A couple of the "untraceables" suggest other origins, but that's just based on the common origins for the last names. If the census takers ask, I usually just say "mongrel."

Lin's pretty much pure Deutsch, from a scattering of "principalities" in the region. Her tribe came over much later, so they're mostly traceable on the ship manifests. A problem with the Deutsch is that many of them had their names arbitrarily "mAnglicised" by the clerks at the POE (most of hers came through Ellis Island) but she thinks she got all the changes pretty much sorted. Her tribe made a habit of giving the same name to several generations in a row, and to a fistful of cousins, but that's another puzzle that can usually be worked out for those recent enough for records to exist.

A great grandma had a little trouble with census takers misspelling her first name (Berthsheba), but we got that sorted, and then found out they misspelled her last name on her grave marker. (She was widowed, and married to ggpa after. The kids from the first marriage asked if they could put up the marker so they could put their daddy's name on the backside, and they probably didn't really know what her "new name" was.)

John

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 12:54 PM

How do genuine Caucasians, from places like Georgia and Azerbaijan, feel about having their label hijacked to refer to people from the other end of Europe?

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:44 PM

Retreading old ground, discussed in several threads.

In classical anthropology, "Caucasian" was named for the peoples from the Caucasus, who were considered the type for the groups Indo-European, Semitic, and Hamitic. These peoples extend from western Europe into central Asia.
The great English biologist Thomas Huxley attacked the concept.

The term persists in legal terminology, and is frequent in police reports. Last week. a report from the Calgary (western Canada) police described a suspect in a rape case as Caucasian. Other racially descriptive terms used by local police include East Asian, Black,, Native (American Indian), etc.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 03:11 PM

"Ethiopians" as a term for Africans seems to have been discarded, fortunately. "Caucasian" in this sense never appears to have caught on outside North America. Both words have similar racist overtones.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 03:23 PM

Caucasian has certainly "caught on" in other places than North America.

It is based on the correct scientific name of a subspecies Homo sapiens

The profound igrorance of all things science is one of the great tragedies in Western Civilization.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 03:35 PM

Someone asked if Scandinavians don't celebrate their heritage here. Ja sure they do...can't throw a stick in my neck of the woods without hitting some sort of Scandinavian event. They used to speak Finnish, which of course is a Nordic and not Scandinavian group according to my mentor..in the next town from me till WWII..Finns and nonFinns..towns where I grew up spoke only Swedish and one I am just finding out only Croatian. I can't tell if OP was serious or joking..there are all sorts of immigrant groups, some of whom assimilated or intermarried more than others. I can think of Slavic groups, Scandinavian groups, Dutch, German, Polish..Northern US tended to receive Northern Europeans..probably not as much vise versa because industry and jobs were in the north and south was more agriculture...I think..Lots of Italians and Greeks here and there...Porteugeuse from Azores in East Coast. French descent in New England and midwest and Louisiana. Germans and Mexicans in Texas, which was Mexican territory and maybe still should be. Japanese and Chinese on west coast. All sorts of people...some brought here in chains..Africans of course but possibly others. Some groups tended to go to Canada..especially if they were part of the British Empire...and it was often cheaper. Ukranians in Manitoba. Russians in ?? Scots were sent to Cape Breton. People went where they had relatives, or they were lured to specific mining or whatever jobs, or the boat went from their country to a particular harbor..all sorts of reasons.

Now..pure English ancestry in U.S...there was a lot of intermarrying so you don't hear of it much. I think early on they married with German and Dutch especially. You don't hear of festivals etc. of English..part of it might be that they feel a sense of cultural embarassement because rightly or wrongly some of America's troubles are laid at their feet. So anyway, lots of sources of our population..most get along most of the time...terrible problems over the years but also very good people at the heart of it all. mg

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 03:37 PM

Oh Jerry mentioned being related to Wyatt Erp..Earp??? So happens I am said to be related to Batt Masterson..we all heard our father tell us we were but he did not say what the relationship was. I have looked at Masterson genealogy boards and of course everyone says they are related to Batt Masterson..but I really am but I don't know exactly how. Would love to hear from genealogists about this. mg

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:12 PM

Caucasian peoples

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 04:32 PM

No, People of the Caucasus and Caucasian do not mean the same thing.

                                                                               same source, but about the Caucasian Race

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM

I have no direct relatives who are Scots or Irish or anything other than German/Russian/Polish. I believe there are a few distant cousins left in Russia, but not sure. About twenty-five years ago one family immigrated to Chicago. The daughter--in my generation, but quite a bit younger than I--came to the Los Angeles area for art school. She was the stereotypical morose Russian. Lots of angst..I was really uncomfortable around her.

My brother married a woman of Scots extraction. Their son married a girl of Korean parentage, and they plan to raise their children in the
Jewish religion. And I've cousins who married into MacDonald and O'Connell. Of the MacDonalds, one married a Pilipino. One married a Mexican-American; her daughter back-married into a family of European descent.

So it is of no never mind the nationality, ethnicity, race or religion, straight or gay...my collateral family is a proverbial
salad bowl.

What a great country!!!

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:40 PM

She was the stereotypical morose Russian.

That doesn't sound like any Russians I've ever known. But then stereotypes are like that.

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 06:30 PM

I have some Cherokee, more French, a lot of Hungarian Jew, and a generous dose of Russian. No scots or irish or english directly, but there were some other european americans. Mutts can be anything...

Subject: RE: American ancestry
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 07:46 PM

The stupid nonsense that is anthropolgy:

"The concept of a Caucasian race or Varietas Caucasia was developed around 1800 by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, a German scientist and classical anthropologist.[3] Blumenbach named it after the Caucasian peoples (from the Southern Caucasus region), whom he considered to be the archetype for the grouping.[4] He based his classification of the Caucasian race primarily on craniology.[5] Blumenbach wrote:

"Caucasian variety - I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind.[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race