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BS: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!

Red Eye 17 Jun 02 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Mooman 17 Jun 02 - 03:22 PM
mousethief 17 Jun 02 - 03:28 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 02 - 03:35 PM
Wincing Devil 17 Jun 02 - 03:40 PM
SharonA 17 Jun 02 - 03:48 PM
Ron Olesko 17 Jun 02 - 03:54 PM
Ron Olesko 17 Jun 02 - 03:55 PM
catspaw49 17 Jun 02 - 04:27 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 02 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,Paul 17 Jun 02 - 04:55 PM
Steve in Idaho 17 Jun 02 - 05:29 PM
Ron Olesko 17 Jun 02 - 05:31 PM
Naemanson 17 Jun 02 - 05:48 PM
Celtic Soul 17 Jun 02 - 05:49 PM
Kim C 17 Jun 02 - 05:59 PM
catspaw49 17 Jun 02 - 06:22 PM
artbrooks 17 Jun 02 - 07:07 PM
mousethief 17 Jun 02 - 07:15 PM
Blues=Life 17 Jun 02 - 07:28 PM
DougR 17 Jun 02 - 07:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Jun 02 - 07:41 PM
Red Eye 17 Jun 02 - 07:46 PM
michaelr 17 Jun 02 - 08:01 PM
artbrooks 17 Jun 02 - 08:07 PM
SINSULL 17 Jun 02 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Mooman 17 Jun 02 - 08:16 PM
Celtic Soul 17 Jun 02 - 08:27 PM
catspaw49 17 Jun 02 - 09:28 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 17 Jun 02 - 10:08 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jun 02 - 10:29 PM
Bill D 17 Jun 02 - 10:51 PM
fat B****rd 18 Jun 02 - 05:39 AM
catspaw49 18 Jun 02 - 09:06 AM
Kim C 18 Jun 02 - 09:59 AM
Little Hawk 18 Jun 02 - 11:37 AM
Devilmaster 18 Jun 02 - 12:19 PM
Kim C 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM
InOBU 18 Jun 02 - 12:59 PM
Kim C 18 Jun 02 - 01:42 PM
M.Ted 18 Jun 02 - 02:36 PM
RolyH 18 Jun 02 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Bob's Yer Uncle 18 Jun 02 - 04:10 PM
mousethief 18 Jun 02 - 04:22 PM
Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 04:42 PM
RolyH 18 Jun 02 - 04:51 PM
Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 05:03 PM
Kim C 18 Jun 02 - 05:10 PM
Shields Folk 18 Jun 02 - 05:14 PM
Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 05:17 PM
Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 05:21 PM
Celtic Soul 18 Jun 02 - 07:20 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,Joe the Realist 18 Jun 02 - 07:41 PM
SeanM 18 Jun 02 - 07:51 PM
Celtic Soul 18 Jun 02 - 07:57 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 08:26 PM
Celtic Soul 18 Jun 02 - 09:24 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 18 Jun 02 - 10:59 PM
Kim C 19 Jun 02 - 10:01 AM
fat B****rd 19 Jun 02 - 12:24 PM
Wolfgang 19 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM
The Walrus at work 19 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM
Kim C 19 Jun 02 - 02:03 PM
Les from Hull 19 Jun 02 - 05:50 PM

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Subject: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Red Eye
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 02:57 PM

Quarter Fianalists yet still the American people have failed to rally behind their team. You are playing a sport which you didn't invent and doing very well at it! With your recent national catastrophe you should come out and show the world that you are a passionate people.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: GUEST,Mooman
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:22 PM

It's just a game. Why should I care if adults want to spend their time kicking a ball. I got music to play!!!

Mooman


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:28 PM

I find dragging 9/11 into the World Cup mildly offensive.

Alex


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:35 PM

(yawn...)(stre-e-e-e-tch...) Wassup? Is breakfast ready yet?

- LH


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:40 PM

Ya wanna see Americans passionate about a sporting event? Check out the a subway series (Yankees vs. Mets)

Amuricans [sic] will never get riled up about a sport where a tie is acceptable, or where you can lose and still advance.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: SharonA
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:48 PM

...and where you can't use your arms. Remember, we 'Merkuns are so passionate about our arms that we put an amendment in the Constitution about 'em! ;^)


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:54 PM

I am waking up... it's just that games in the middle of the night are rough on those of us who have jobs!

Red Eye, there are plenty of us who are passionate about soccer in this country. It is true that the majority of Americans will never "get it", but that doesn't matter. Americans are SPORTS fans, not just one SPORT. Last week we had the NBA finals, the Stanley Cup finals (we didn't invent hockey!), the U.S. Open Golf championship, and the Mets-Yankees had a "subway series" (which I also attended!). We are passionate about all these and other sports, including ones where we participate instead of simply watching.

Soccer will have it's place in this culture, it the number of fans are growing along with the number of youth playing the sport.

We are celebrating!!

Ron Olesko


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:55 PM

... actually we used an arm today.... and got away with it!

Hand of God 3???

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:27 PM

Thank you Ron.......

Ron and I keep trying to get this across but it doesn't seem to sink in. 2000-3000 people are showing up in the middle of the night at a Soccer stadium in a podunk midwestern city to watch the games.....that's enthusiasm. The friggin' President called the US team...something generally reserved for victors in the Super Bowl or the World Series. What the hell do you expect us to do? Are we to forget every other sport in deference to Soccer?

Americans are big sports fans but we have an awful lot of sports to become passionate about including ones we play or did play at some point in our lives. Let me ask you Red Eye----Do you know who Matt Kenseth is? How about Dominick Hasek? Mike Piazza? Roger Clements?

So the sports fan here has a lot of options and the joke about Soccer is really ancient history. The game is played by more kids from 6-18 than any other team sport and thought the MLS may not measure up to your standards, the league is improving and draws excellent crowds. Given time and the current level of play, it will soon be a legitimate league by anyone's standards......and 6 of the US players including most of the scorers are MLS players.

Red Eye, are you from the UK? If so why not take a few of your Cricket players and show them how to play Baseball which is only about 25% as boring as Cricket and send them over here for a go at us?   We can start them off in Single A ball and let them work their way up. Along the way, all of us can bitch because no one over there is excited.

geeziz.........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:33 PM

You're being generous, Spaw. No other sport is even 20% as boring as cricket! :-) Cricket must be seen to not be believed...

- LH


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 04:55 PM

Hey stop dissing cricket!

Todays match between England and Sri Lanka got very exciting towards the end.

Clay court tennis, formula 1, and curling aren't exactly riviting to me, but as some songwriter once said:

"Don't criticise what you can't understand"

Paul


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:29 PM

Shot putt - my fav - especially the warm ups -

And I'm not into awake today - but I appreciate the offer!

Steve


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:31 PM

Talking about sports - I am amazed at the number of people who enjoy watching golf. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The U.S. Open was held in the NYC area last weekend. Someone from out of town remarked that they were surprised at how "well behaved" the NY area fans were. What did they expect at a golf match? Air horns? Fans with painted faces? Personally it would make it more enjoyable for me.

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:48 PM

My passion's got nothing to do with a bunch of guys running around in a field chasing a ball.

Except: USA beat Mexico and my brother in law is Mexican! Time for some good old fasioned teasing.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:49 PM

Thanks...but no thanks. I think I'll go out and shake the hand of a Fireman and make a donation to a local Fire Station instead.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 05:59 PM

Heheh! Matt Kenseth WON yesterday! First driver to win 3 Winston Cup races this season. Jarrett gave him a good run for his money on that last lap, though. He ALMOST passed him.

Personally, though, I thought it was really exciting to see Mark Martin win the million dollars in the Coca Cola 600 a few weeks back.

And how about Castroneves in the Indy 500? Paul Tracy is trying to appeal but it looked to me like the accident happened before he passed Castroneves.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. Soccer.

I don't know about any of the rest of you, but I haven't got the pocket change to fly around the world for a sporting event. Mister and I did watch the game against Poland, though, and were delighted to see lots of fans from BOTH countries in the stands there in Korea.

Also, not all of us have cable TV. Until the playoffs, most of the games weren't on network television.

I live in the South, where football (the kind with the pointy ball) and NASCAR are King. If you want to see someone get excited about sports, come visit me when the Titans start playing again. Or go see my mom when Kentucky and Tennessee are playing each other in college sports. Or go to a Winston Cup race near you and watch the sparks fly. :-)


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:22 PM

Yeah Kim, but a few more laps and Jeffy would have had his first on the year.......But notice he's still in third in points!!! I was elated to see Mark win too.....great guy and a great driver too. Are you gassed with Jimmie Johnson? The kid has great instincts and a LOT of talent to go along with the good equipment. Also have you noticed that Kyle is doing better? Makes me glad because the man is a class act and has been through a lot......Did you see the special section on the kids camp he and Pattie are building for very ill kids?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:07 PM

I plan to pay exactly as much attention to the World Cup as I did to the World Series and the Stanley Cup.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:15 PM

Many people care nothing for sports. Many have a favorite sport or two (or maybe even 3) and don't care much for the rest. And a select few care about every single sport that comes down the pike.

Personally I fall into the second category. I am a baseball fan and care little for other sports. I don't have the time, with 5 kids 2 cars and a mortgage, to follow a lot of sports. I have my favorite and that's enough for me.

I sincerely hope, for the sake of the boys on the team and their fans here in the USA, that the USA team does well. But then again every person whose country's team is still in the running feels the same way vis-a-vis THEIR team. May the best team win.

But personally I don't find soccer a terribly exciting sport, and you're not likely to change that fact about me.

Alex


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Blues=Life
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:28 PM

GUEST Paul, "Todays match between England and Sri Lanka got very exciting towards the end." From what little I know about Cricket, I still have to ask... "Toward the end?" How could you tell it was ending? I thought Cricket games went on forever?

LOL

Go USA!!! (I tape the games, get up early and watch them!) This is the Year We Could Go All The Way!!!!!!!!! (You have to be an American Football fan to get that reference.)

Blues


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: DougR
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:39 PM

I think when the current crop of kids are grown there will be a lot more intrest in Soccer in the U.S. because, as Spaw noted, they are all playing it now. When I was young (well you don't even have to go that far back)it wasn't played anywhere in this country as far as I know.

Frankly, I was absolutely shocked that the U. S. beat Mexico. A friend of mine, a Scot who is supercharged over Soccer predicted at a party last Saturday night that Mexico would beat the U. S. soundly!

In addition to the Mets and the Yankees games, there were a couple of other good series last week - The DBacks and the Red Socks (a Diamondback sweep), and the DBacks and the Yankees. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:41 PM

Bush phoned them up? That's very good news for Germany on Friday.

I imagine the undercurrent of yank-bashing over this may come from a feeling that the reason that America stays aloof from things like this is because it's a game where the Americans are the underdogs and the likelihood is defeat. (These of course being the very reasons for backing a team.)

Which I don't think is fair - as I've pointed out in another thread, Soccer, for some unclear reason, has never been a particularly popular sport in most English speaking countries, apart from England and Scotland. (Ireland isn't really an exception - it's a minority game which has gained majority support because of having a great team. The same is true of the USA, so far as the team is concerned - and I imagine the wave of majority support for them will be forthcoming soon enough.)


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Red Eye
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 07:46 PM

I didn't mean to be offensive to anyone but what I want to say is that to 95% of the world that treats football as it's No 1 sport, America can grasp the situation and turn it into somthing positive. Doesn't beating your near neighbours Mexico mean anything?


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:01 PM

YES!!! It means a lot, and was quite unexpected. You could see the US team struggling, though; they're playing a bit out of their league. Let's see how they fare against Germany...

I have the VCR running every night, and watch as many of the games as possible. Even my wife, who doesn't care about sports, is passionate about the World Cup. The level of skill involved has turned her into a fan of the game.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:07 PM

When football (either kind) players make more than heart surgeons, and the combined salaries of any second-rate professional team (in almost any sport) would run a medium -sized hospital for a year, something is wrong with our priorities.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:15 PM

I prefer Professional Wrestling - hardcore and table matches.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: GUEST,Mooman
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:16 PM

Artbrooks,

Thanks!! It seems that sports and guys patting each other on the butt and playing a game for exorbitant amounts of money while old folks are going without their food or their medication is just plain vulgar at the best. I'd much rather that our President would really address Healthcare for the elderly (which he ruined by his tax plan since we are now back in debt!) instead of calling a frigging sports team. Sheesh!!

Mooman


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:27 PM

Redeye...

No offense taken here, hon...but I can honestly say, no. I don't care if the US beats any neighbour, near or far.

I am sorry to say (as you seem so enthusiastic) but it is utterly meaningless to me. I just don't like sports. Mostly as I hate the fact that sports stars earn more than most school districts in a given year, and the government subsidizes arenas that are then used to make rich ball club owners even richer. And for what? So we can watch a bunch of grown men run around in their underwear chasing a ball and spend $90.00 on bad hotdogs and weak beer.

This is an illustration of how very deeply I do not get sports.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 09:28 PM

Moo and Art....I couldn't agree more regarding salaries and all but as long as we keep the elevated levels of what we will pay for "entertainment" of any sort so high, it's not likely to change.

I have always been first and foremost a baseball fan (team sports), and though I was all for the player's union and free agency because it was indentured servitude before, the thing has gotten out of all proportion. I can't blame the players, the priorities are set by the fan and what he will pay along with the very lucrative TV deals....but they too are fan based. But we have alwyas had our priorities screwed up in this country anyway.....in sports, teaching and education, medicine, the law....you name it.

Ya' know what hurt me more than the salaries was the lack of loyalty the big bucks brought. For years ballplayers lived and played in the same town and were just guys. Local merchants gave away stuff to augment their relatively low salaries and offered off-season jobs. They were a part of a city. Now they go wherever the money is and I can't blame them, but I miss the old days. Many of the US Soccer players play in Europe but I am encouraged that 6 of the team play here in the MLS. At this point there are still a few that wouldn't leave for anywhere else and that's kinda' nice. But until we refuse to pay through the nose for entertainment, things are going to be way out of whack.

BTW....Am I the only person here who was pretty confident in the US beating Mexico? We play them relatively often and have won 4 of the past 5. The US went into that game feeling it was winnable....and it was.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:08 PM

I felt good about the US chances. As long as we weren't playing in Mexico City I knew we would do well. I also feel pretty good about our chances against Germany.

The gripes about athletes being paid too much many always makes me chuckle. Of course they are high! So what? The idea of comparing them to doctors, police, teachers, etc. to me is very insulting to all parties. I would not want Bobby Bonds to remove my appendix, but I wouldn't want to watch my doctor hit a curve ball. What a dull world we would live in without atheletes, artists, musicians and actors to inspire us. If they can get the money they are asking for, bless them!

Sure there are athletes that abuse their station in life. I guess it is easy to ignore the John Franco's, Mike Piazzas, and others who give more then just what they do on the field. Easy to ignore them as heros isn't it? If they inspire someone to stay in school, reach their potential, or just believe in themselves aren't they serving a purpose?

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't read any stories of athletes pulling out a gun and demanding money. It seems like they ask for a salary and it is negotiated. The numbers may be high, but who is getting hurt? Anyone here feel that George Steinbrenner or Rupert Murdoch are being screwed? Do you think that money would have wound up in a nurses paycheck instead? Anyone here ever go to their boss to say they were making too much money and ask to have the money given to a teacher? Would any songwriter here on Mudcat turn down an offer to sell one of their songs?

Let everyone whine. It makes them feel better and I'm happy they can get some joy out of knocking someone elses pleasure. I'm still enjoying today's game! You can't take that away from me!

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:29 PM

SINSULL - "table matches"??? Que? What do you mean "table matches"? We don't need no steenkin' table matches... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:51 PM

"Doesn't beating your near neighbours Mexico mean anything? "

if *I* beat Mexico, *I* might feel good....but some guys I don't know beat a bunch of Mexican players I don't know....once....This does NOT 'increase my national pride' or anything...If the USA wins more, I will be pleased, but I will not go out and celebrate and claim it as some personal triumph, like you seem to be advocating, Mr Redeye...

IT IS ONLY A GAME!!!!...honest!


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:39 AM

Good point, of course it's only a game. But isn't a large scale event which apparently has had very little in the way of violence and/or racist nationalism a good thing. ENGERLAND!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:06 AM

I dunno' FB...They haven't given a lot of press to some of the nastier stuff like the riots in Moscow or the Korean fan who set himself on fire to become the 12th "ghost" member of the Korean side.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:59 AM

Spaw, I am watchin Jimmie Johnson. :-)He's young and has a lot of years to race.

Let me back up a little here, and blame this all on my big brother. He went to the Richard Petty racing school a year or so ago, and had So Much Fun that he Wouldn't Shut Up. So I said, all right, I'll watch a race, for the heck of it.

And wouldn't you know, I liked it, and that was the end of that. I've watched nearly every race on network TV this season. I mean, heck, I've grown up right smack in the middle of NASCAR country, so I already knew most of the drivers anyhow.

And Kyle Petty, well, he's the Heir to the Throne, ain't he? I love that Sprint PCS commercial he does. ;-)

Personally I am really fascinated with the pit crews. Changing 4 tires and filling a tank in 15 seconds is pretty darn good teamwork. They've got all these programs now where you can go drive a race car, like my brother did, but I wanna be on the pit crew!!! Waaaaaah!!!

Now. Back to soccer. I had never watched soccer before until the Poland game. It was utter chaos and I really liked it. I like sports that move fast. This year, I also discovered hockey.

It isn't that I ever had an active dislike of sports, just that I never took the time to really pay attention to any. But now that I have, there are a few that I do enjoy. And I'm one of those people who hollers at the TV.

If I had cable, I'd be dangerous.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 11:37 AM

Hey, GUEST, Paul - Nice Dylan quote, and very appropriate! It's true that we don't understand cricket, but dissing it is just meant in fun...it's like dissing accordions, banjos, and bagpipes, which in truth are all fine instruments in their own right.

- LH


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Devilmaster
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:19 PM

well kim, NASCAR is starting a college course to help train pit crew members.... they go about a year, and tuition costs about 25000 dollars u.s.

Seems nascar has a hard time keeping mechanics and such with a non-stop 36 in 40 week race sched. Attrition is very high.

A perfect example of this is what happened last weekend with kentucky getting rained out on saturday. Some busch team members had to leave to go to their winston cup teams for sunday... logistical and team nightmare. As far as i heard, crew chiefs were having to go over the wall and act as tire changers, they were so short-staffed.

have you gone to a race yet? I was at Michigan for the race sunday, and its always a great time, even though it makes for a long day.

Steve


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:43 PM

Well, Devilmaster, if they'd let me into pit crew school on my looks and a belly dance, I'd go. ;-) Neither one has made me $25,000 yet, though...

I haven't been to a race. I'd be going alone as Mister grew up in Indy country and has already been there and done that. The Nashville Superspeedway (which is really in Lebanon, not Nashville) hosts some Busch races once in awhile - tickets are upwards of $50 for the actual race, though, which is almost a week's worth of groceries. :-(


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 12:59 PM

Hi Red Eye... no intention to jump on the dump on ye band waggon, but serriously, we already have sessions in New York pubs canseled for the world serries, boxing, basket ball, the varrious fruit cups of football (orange bowl, superbowl, toilet bowl...)curling, dwarf tossing championships live from Oz... I don't think we need much more distractions thanks... but no thanks... Larry


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 01:42 PM

Fruit Cups of Football!!!! Heeheeheeheeheeeheeeee!!!! I'm still waiting for someone to sponsor the Toilet Bowl, wherein the loser could be proclaimed the Worst Team in America...


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: M.Ted
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 02:36 PM

I am not much of a sports fan, but I really I find comments like Celtic Soul's to be both annoying and extremely wrong--the amount of money spent on sports is not that much, compared to the total amount of money spent on education in this country--

Last year, the New York Yankees Baseball Club generated $248,000.000 in total revenues for the year 2001, approximately the amount of money it will take to run the Charlotte-Mecklinberg School System in North Carolina(which serves a total of 118,00 students) for the 2002-2003 School year--$241,000,000 were expenses, though, and the $8.000,000 of profit wouldn't have been enough to offset the $22,000,000 which the district is planning to trim from their budget--

Oakland, generated only about $75,000,000, which is about what it will cost to run the Treddyfrin/Easttown School system in Berwyn.PA, which is so small that only a few of you will actually have even heard of it. Even at that, Treddyfrin/Easttown seems to have spent more on salaries than Oakland did--

There are many, many, school systems that are larger than Charlotte/Mecklinsburg, and between they could swallow up the revenues from all of professional baseball without it making much difference at all--


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: RolyH
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:08 PM

Maybe the USA are missing the point.This is a one sport competition against the rest of the world.Not the North American curling championship in the Florida Bowl or whatever,and you are doing very well in it.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: GUEST,Bob's Yer Uncle
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:10 PM

Put the big suck on it.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:22 PM

I woke up, but then there was a soccer game on TV and it put me to sleep again.

Alex


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:42 PM

Rolyh,

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The country understands the significance of the event, it is just that the majority of American's are still going about their daily lives.

Soccer will never be the #1 sport in this country, and we do not expect to see Old Trafford tearing up the soccer pitch to put in a pitchers mound and basepaths. We drive on different sides of the road - it doesn't mean one of us is right and the other is wrong, it is just a culture difference. Accept it and move on.

Rest assured that there is a growing number of soccer fans here in the U.S., and I have grown to love the sport over the last 20 years or so. It is a beautiful game. However, I still cherish spending afternoons at Shea Stadium watching a baseball game unfold. My Nets made it to the NBA Finals, even if they seemed to leave their abilities in the locker room. I love going to see the Devils giving it their all during the winter months. I've got my alarm set for Friday morning and I fully expect the U.S. team to make a good show. It is so nice to have choices and to be able to enjoy ALL of them.

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: RolyH
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 04:51 PM

Fair comment

But the rest of the world are still a bit mystified.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:03 PM

I guess RolyH that is is always hard to understand what makes other cultures tick. It may be cliche, but if we did understand each other, we would have less troubles in the world!

Another example - Canada. Hockey is THE sport in Canada, probably greater than baseball is here in the U.S. I think that is wonderful!

Sure, soccer is embraced by much of the world. Maybe we have too many choices here in the U.S., but that is just the way life is. Americans aren't ignoring the World Cup, it just isn't the primary focus in our lives. Aside from a few comments from the altercockers here on Mudcat who are just trying to stir the pot, most Americans do not look negatively at soccer, they just choose to embrace another sport. Choice!

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:10 PM

Y'all have Formula 1. We have NASCAR. Y'all drink tea, we drink coffee. Y'all have round-ball football, and we have pointy-ball football. Tomato, tomahto.

I'm not sure where anyone gets the idea that nobody in the US cares that their team is doing well. Remember, we also have a vast cable television network whereby people can watch sports in the comfort of their homes, rather than going to the event in person, and you can bet a LOT of people are doing just that. Heck, how many ESPNs are there now? Three?

Not to mention the fact that the World Cup overlapped the Stanley Cup. And the NBA playoffs.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Shields Folk
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:14 PM

"Football is not a matter of life and death, it's far more important than that" - Bill Shankley


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:17 PM

Man Does Not Live By Bread Alone - anon


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 05:21 PM

Man Does Not Live By Bread Alone - Matthew 4:4 Sorry, I did not give the proper credit. I would hate to be sued for copyright infringement!


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:20 PM

OK...so, just this morning, what was on the front page of the Washington Post as *the* headlining story?

"USA beats Mexico".

To include *multiple* stories, one with pictures of crowds of Mexicans, all with expressions of the deepest sorrow, many weeping unconsolably. When I first looked at the pic, I thought it must surely be a picture of something tragic that had happened in the Middle East.

People are dying of starvation. They're being sold into slavery. They're killing each other the world over. So, what is front page news? What are people crying about?

Who kicked a ball into the net more often.

The last time I cried over losing a game, the 4th grade teacher told me I should act my age.

So, folks, please...explain this to me so it makes sense? What am I not getting here?


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:25 PM

CelticSoul,

I guess you are missing the rest of USA Today.

Art, as expressed through sport, is an incredible human achievment. It doesn't mean we ignore the other stories. I'm sorry you don't get it.

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: GUEST,Joe the Realist
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:41 PM

Well said, Celtic Soul. Thanks for putting things into perspective.
JtR


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: SeanM
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:51 PM

No, really, on the whole, many Americans ARE ignoring the World Cup.

Many Americans ignored the NBA Finals.

Many Americans ignored the NHL Finals.

Many Americans ignore anything at all to do with sports.

Soccer just happens to have MORE Americans ignoring it than most. Personally, I, my girlfriend, my bandmates, my friends... we all mostly couldn't give a rat's ass. You might get one or two of us worked up about hockey. But we're pretty much oblivious to soccer. Just because the "rest of the world" (and I'm sure the Eskimo/Inuit team is just tearing up the charts) cares about it doesn't mean I'm required to.

M


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:57 PM

Yeah, but Ron...

Art isn't about who wins, at least not in my eyes. Art (for me) is about celebrating *all* of humanities diverse accomplishments, no matter *what* culture. When another act mounts the stage, and plays better than my band does, if I weep, it is for the fact that I am moved to tears by their performance. Not because I feel somehow diminished by their achievement. I *love* the accomplishments of my fellow musicians. I learn from them. I celebrate their uniquenesses. I buy their CD's. But, I *do not* consider them my rivals.

And, in any case, what's to cry over? No one died. This is not world peace we're talking about...it's whether someone won a sporting event. That is what I don't get.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 08:26 PM

C-soul,

Competition, survival and disapointment are all part of life. Art is also about creating, and in sports the creating takes the form of reaching your potential and meeting your goals and as you say, celebrating your accomplishments.

If you can be moved to tears by music it is because it has reached you on a deep level. A sports fan is touched in the same manner. The beauty of words and the beauty of athletic achievement are both artistic achievements.

Competition is healthy in that it can push people to put forth their best effort. Competition for the World Cup began three years ago when teams around the world began playing each other to become one of the 32 teams to make the final tournament.

You have to realize that in many countries soccer is a means to escape. Sometimes it is the reality of poverty. For some countries it is an achievement of recognition - as South Korea witnessed today when they defeated Italy.

It is very difficult to describe, but the meaning runs deep.

Again, in this country (USA) the meanings are different. We celebrate as an excuse to party, not just to escape.

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 09:24 PM

Thanks, Ron, for your very considered and thoughtful explanation. I don't think I will ever get the crying over losing a sporting event, but I can accept that some think on it as a method of self expression, as music is for most of us here.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jun 02 - 10:59 PM

I've been a Mets fan since their inception. I can recall portions of my life when I think back on certain games. I remember skipping school to watch them win their first World Series in 1969. My wife and I sat dejected on our couch watching game 5 of the 1986 World Series as they were one out away from losing to the Red Sox and then feeling the indescrible high as they came back to win that game. We were in the stands the next game and I felt a pride that was unmatched as they won - all those years of being laughed at for supporting "losers" finally culminated in a justification of my support. There are so many stories that can be parables for life in baseball, as well as other sports. No, it isn't life and death, but it can be a form of religion and offer comfort.

I began watching soccer in the 1970's when the Cosmos made it a "happening". In the years since I've attended World Cup matches as well as exhibitions with foreign teams. I see the supporters of teams from around the world show up to have a chance to be part of a community. I was at Giants Stadium in 1994 when Ireland played Italy. Everyone expected the crowd to be filled with Italian supporters (we are in New Jersey after all!). However the supporters of the Irish team did everything they could to find tickets and the stadium was overwhelming filled with Irish fans - both visitors from Ireland as well as countrymen living in the U.S. To be part of their experience and share their pride was a feeling I will never forget. Say what you will about patriotism, but this was a special moment. To see 70,000 people united in one cause - winning a soccer game - meant something. Everyone knew it was just a game, but for that moment the world was looking at them and joining with them.

Sorry if I get carried away. I think the media and some of the posters here at Mudcat got carried away too. The media focuses on a few incidents - a fan in Korea setting himself on fire, a shooting in Russia, a player being shot in Columbia - and assumptions are made that EVERYONE has the same level of passion(or insanity). Far from it. It is just a game, and it is life. Like life, people move on. So yes a few tears may be shed at a game out of disappointment and passion, but there will always be another game - that is the lesson from sports.

I highly recommend Nick Hornby's book Fever Pitch to anyone who wants to understand the passion behind sports - or someone who wants to read a damn good book. Hornby expresses it much better than I ever could.

I'm getting off my soapbox now. Sorry!

Ron


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 10:01 AM

I agree with Celtic Soul that sometimes the competitors may take winning or losing too seriously. However, they're the ones getting up at the crack of dawn to run and train and lift weights and all that - we're just the ones who watch, and we have a different perspective.

As spectators we see it as "just a game." For the ones who play, it may be their livelihood. Some athletes make a buttload of money and we think, oh, they have it so easy, they're rich, it's not right that anyone should make that much money playing a silly game.

But y'all, there's a lot that goes into playing a silly game. Practice. Work. Pushing your body to its limits. It's not all fun and games and glamour and cheerleaders and globetrotting.

It's work. And some people who play for a living value that work just as much as anyone else. They get emotional when they lose. They get emotional when they win. How many of you haven't ever been emotional over your accomplishments at work, whatever your work may be?

Sports promote solidarity and teamwork. What's so bad about that? Even for those who don't play sports themselves, the driving concepts behind them can carry over into other things.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 12:24 PM

Fair comment 'Spaw. I do tend to take the overall picture, but I'm not unaware of extremism. Nice of the Italian manager to sack the Korean player who scored against Italy !!.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:09 PM

Before wrong rumors become truths: The Korean player had been sacked before the world cup had started and the manager said after the loss grinning (and tongue in cheek): We wouldn't take back someone scoring agaisnt us, would we?

As serious as the German goalie Kahn who said before the game against Paraguay: If Roque Santa Cruz (his Munich teammate and Paraguayan attacker) scores against me, he doesn't need to show up in Munich at the start of the new season.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:35 PM

One question. Cricket has taken a little stick in this thread, but in Cricket, the ball is in play for 80% of the time. Why does take so long for an American Football game to get 60 minutes of play in ? I seem to recall reading some professional games can take up to 3 hours WITHOUT extra time.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Kim C
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 02:03 PM

Walrus, that's because they stop the clock every few minutes for time-outs, TV commercials, penalties, etc.


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Subject: RE: WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 Jun 02 - 05:50 PM

Television around the world has brought games from 'quality' leagues (mainly South American and European). Perhaps more people in North America would watch these games now. If this is to be the case, I've just two words to add. Leeds United.


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 20 October 5:05 PM EDT

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