Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Help: French Canadian Folk song research

Related threads:
Origins: A methodology for dating songs etc. (50)
Music Research at Library of Congress? (23)
Methodologies II (36)
Methodologies (71) (closed)
research of tunes (12)
DigiTrad used for linguistic research (7)
Doing research: need help!! women in trad music (31)
lyrics from a field research project (7)
Methodologies -- who writes the songs? (12)


Jim Krause 03 Aug 02 - 12:21 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 02 - 03:53 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 02 - 03:54 PM
katlaughing 03 Aug 02 - 05:03 PM
Jeremiah McCaw 04 Aug 02 - 07:07 AM
Jim Krause 04 Aug 02 - 06:35 PM
GUEST,jamie sutliff 21 May 09 - 10:57 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 May 09 - 12:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 May 09 - 12:45 PM
mg 21 May 09 - 01:16 PM
Monique 21 May 09 - 03:50 PM
Monique 21 May 09 - 06:26 PM
Bob the Postman 21 May 09 - 07:19 PM
Artful Codger 21 May 09 - 08:07 PM
Monique 21 May 09 - 08:44 PM
Two of a Hind 22 May 09 - 04:57 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 May 09 - 01:56 PM
Artful Codger 22 May 09 - 05:51 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Jim Krause
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:21 PM

Perhaps our Canadian friends can help out with this question. I am looking for material that documents the relative age of some French Canadian fiddle tunes and folk songs for a living history presentation I am involved with. For example, I use Sam Bayard's Dance to the Fiddle, March to the Fife in documenting several American fiddle tunes because he has very extensive footnotes as to his sources.

Are there any French Canadian Sam Bayards out there?
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 03:53 PM

Search on Google for 'French Canadian Riddle Tunes'. I also use Bayard's 'Dance to the Fiddle'.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 03:54 PM

I spotted that Riddle for Fiddle, after I hit the submit button, too late.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 05:03 PM

Hi, Jim,

Searching on google and the Links here at Mudcat, brought up a few sites which might be of interest, though I didn't see any direct evidence of dating tunes. Here they are FWIW:

Canadian Journal of Traditional Music

Comptines, chansons et poesies

Uni of Saskatchewan Library Guide (scroll down to "E. Jazz, poular, folk, & ethnic" to see a listing of publications which may be helpful)

A scholarly site which looks as though it may have some interesting reading

Great Canadian tunebook with midis

Good luck!

kat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 04 Aug 02 - 07:07 AM

Only piece of lore I can add comes from an Anderson & Brown recording. The French-Canadian tune "Reel de Ti' Jean" crossed the pond where the English dubbed it "Little John's Reel". It then transported itself back where our "'murican" neighbours retitled it "Liberty", aka "The Liberty Twostep".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Jim Krause
Date: 04 Aug 02 - 06:35 PM

Thanks to all. This ought to get me going.

In case you were wondering, I am looking specifically for French Canadian voyageur fiddle tunes and boat songs. I am involved with the quickly approaching Lewis & Clark Corps of Discovery bicentennial. Events will be going on all up and down the Ohio, Missouri, and Columbia Rivers. My interest is in Pierre Cruzatte, fiddling boatman of the Corps of Discovery.
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: GUEST,jamie sutliff
Date: 21 May 09 - 10:57 AM

Hello, I am a writer currently working on an historic novel that uses several phrases in French. My research indicates that the dialects spoken in Quebec are closer to the French spoken 200 years ago. I need a simple folk song as old as it can be, one of the type parents used to sing to their children as a teaching tool. I need only 4 lines with the translations to English. I hope you have time to help. Thank you very much----jamie sutliff


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:39 PM

The old 'dialectic' French has disappeared in Québec. Of course some idioms persist, and new ones have developed, but schools teach good French.

Frère Jacques comes to mind, and the simple round,
Le Forgeron (The Blacksmith)
Le forgeron rebar le fer,
Il bat le fer
Il bat le fer

Of course "Auprès de ma blonde"
1
Au jardin de mon père
les lauriers sont fleuris;
Au jardin de mon père
les lauriers sont fleuris,
Tout les oiseaux du monde
Vont y faire leurs nids.
( Old French lyrics of some songs are on the internet; Monique may see this and give better advice).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 09 - 12:45 PM

Translation of "Auprè ...-
1
Out in my father's garden
The laurel blooms the best;
Out in my father's garden
The laurel blooms the best,
And ev'ry little bird there
Is building its own nest.
From "Folk Songs of Quebec (Chansons de Québec)," Fowke and Johnston.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: mg
Date: 21 May 09 - 01:16 PM

Contact the Ilwaco Museum in Washington state. I remember reading something there about the number of Metis on the expedition and several were fiddlers as I recall--they were very famous for being good fiddlers. I live at the end of the trail...mg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Monique
Date: 21 May 09 - 03:50 PM

I'd have thought of "Alouette, gentille alouette" because it's an easy one, it's a good way to remember the parts of the body of a bird and because it's the good type of song to train children's memory.

Alouette, gentille alouette, (lark, nice lark)
Alouette je te plumerai (lark, I'll pluck you)
Je te plumerai la tête (x2) (I'll pluck your head)
Et la tête (x2)(and your head)
Alouette (x2)(lark) a-a-a-a
Alouette, gentille alouette
Alouette je te plumerai.

See Alouette in the DigiTrad.

I don't know how old this song is. I read online that it went back to when France lost Canada (middle of the 18th century) but you need to check if it's accurate.

Other possible songs: Ah, si mon moine voulait danser (check Genie's post in this thread.

You can find "Alouette", a version of "À la claire fontaine", "V'là l' bon vent" (lyrics and English translation) on Mama Lisa's World Canada page. There's a different version of "À la claire fontaine" on MLW's France page (from Canada, go to the home page, then Europe, then France)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Monique
Date: 21 May 09 - 06:26 PM

"La destinée, la rose au boué" maybe sounds older since it keeps the then Normandy and/or Poitou "oué" pronunciation (more or less like in "wedding") of what is normally spelled "oi" (la rose au bois) and now pronounced more or less like in "whack" in standard French but also like "what" in other areas. There are different versions. Every verse is built on the same pattern: two new lines + the "la destinée la rose au boué" + 2nd line stuff. "La destinée, la rose au boué" have no real meaning here.


LA DESTINÉE, LA ROSE AU BOUÉ

Mon père ainsi qu' ma mère
N'avaient fille que moué
Mon père ainsi qu' ma mère
N'avaient fille que moué
N'avaient fille que moué
La destinée, la rose au boué
La rose au boué
N'avaient fille que moué
La destinée ohé.

Ils me mirent à l'école
À l'école du Roué.

Le maître qui m'enseigne
Devint amoureux d' moué.

Il me fit faire un' robe
Une robe de soué

On me la porte à coudre (or Le tailleur qui la coud)
Au grand tailleur du roué (Est le tailleur du roué)

À chaque coup d'aiguille :
"Ma mie embrassez-moué".

C' n'est pas l'affaire des filles
D'embrasser les garçons

Mais c'est l'affaire des filles
D' balayer les maisons

Quand les maisons sont propres
Les amoureux y vont

Ils y vont quatre par quatre
En jouant du violon

Quand les maisons sont sales,
Les amoureux s'en vont

Ils s'en vont quatre par quatre
En frappant du talon.

Rough literal translation (I left the tenses the way they are in French): My father and my mother / had only me as a daughter / had only me as a daughter / the destiny, the rose in the wood / the rose in the wood / had only me as a daughter / the destiny oh hey - They put me at school, the king's school - The master/teacher who teaches me / fell in love with me – He had a dress made for me / a silk dress – The tailor who sews it / is the king's tailor – At every stitch: / "My dear, kiss me" – It's not the girls' job / to kiss boys (personal comment : if it's not a girl's job, I wonder whose it is!) - But it's the girls' job / to sweep the houses (no comment!) - When the houses are clean / the boyfriends/lovers go there – They go four by four / playing the violin – When the houses are dirty / the boyfriends/lovers leave – They leave four by four / stumping their heels.

This is how I learned it. I'll post a longer version from one of my books -where it's said that the song went to Canada with the Protestants "that the 'Édit de Nantes' forced to flee", which seems quite strange since the 'Édit de Nantes' (1598) gave the Protestants liberty of religion while its revocation (1685) withdrew it (or however you say that in proper English)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 21 May 09 - 07:19 PM

Marius Barbeau was an important collector of French Canadian songs. A dozen of his wax cylinder field recordings, with transcriptions of the lyrics, can be heard here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Artful Codger
Date: 21 May 09 - 08:07 PM

Is "La Rose au Boué" possibly related to "Mon père n'avait fille que moi" or (more probably) "Belle rose au rosier blanc"?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Monique
Date: 21 May 09 - 08:44 PM

It doesn't seem so though both "La rose au boué" and "Mon père n'avait fille que moi" ("Sautez, mignonne Cécilia") originate in Western France. "Belle rose au rosier blanc" is related to "Blanc, blanc, belle rose" at least the tune is the same. I'll check more tomorrow, it's 2.45am here...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Two of a Hind
Date: 22 May 09 - 04:57 AM

May I suggest that you look up Tanglefoot, a cadadian group that visit ourt festivals nearly every year, they have recorded several tarditional french canadian songs over the years, Jayce Bedford handles their tours.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 09 - 01:56 PM

See J'entends le moulin in thread 77731.
An old song known both in France and Quebec.

J'entends le moulin

Several other French-Canadian-Quebec-Metis songs are posted on Mudcat, but there seems to be no collective thread.
-------------------------------------

Recordings have been issued by Folkways. Here are three by Mills:
Alan Mills and Helene Baillargeon, "Songs of French Canada."
Alan Mills, "French Folk Songs for Children."
Alan Mills, "French Canadian Folk Songs."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: French Canadian Folk song research
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 May 09 - 05:51 PM

The "Mon père n'avait fille que moi" that I know (cliquez) has no line like "Sautez, mignonne Cécilia". How are those two related? Should we begin a new thread for this song family?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 23 June 4:26 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.