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Help: Age of East Virginia TWO

DigiTrad:
EAST VIRGINIA
GREENBACK DOLLAR
GREENBACK DOLLAR 2
I DON"T WANT YOUR MILLIONS, MISTER


Related threads:
Lyr Req: West Virginia? / East Virginia (8)
What's the matter with East Virginia? (30)
Lyr Add: Bored In East Virginia (4)
(origins) Help: Age of 'East Virginia'? (87)
Lyr Req: Greenback Dollar Bill (from Louis Prima) (12)
Lyr Add: Who Is at My Window Weeping? (4)
Lyr Req: East Virginia (Blues) (2) (closed)


Dicho (Frank Staplin) 26 Aug 02 - 12:59 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 26 Aug 02 - 01:04 AM
masato sakurai 26 Aug 02 - 05:13 AM
masato sakurai 26 Aug 02 - 05:15 AM
GUEST,Pete Peterson 26 Aug 02 - 11:07 AM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Aug 02 - 11:15 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 26 Aug 02 - 01:06 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 26 Aug 02 - 01:52 PM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Aug 02 - 04:05 PM
Stewie 26 Aug 02 - 09:47 PM
Stewie 26 Aug 02 - 09:53 PM
Stewie 26 Aug 02 - 10:28 PM
GUEST,Richie 27 Aug 02 - 10:42 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Aug 02 - 12:48 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 28 Aug 02 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,Richie 07 Sep 02 - 10:48 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Sep 02 - 11:21 PM
GUEST,Richie 08 Sep 02 - 12:27 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 08 Sep 02 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Richie 09 Sep 02 - 08:50 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 09 Sep 02 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,JoyousM 03 Oct 14 - 10:52 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: LOST HENRY
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 12:59 AM

Continuation of East Virginia, Silver Dagger, Drowsy Sleeper and countless variants.

Lyr. Add: LOST HENRY

Come back, come back, my dear lost Henry
Come back, come back, I'll go with you
Go way down yonder, in that lone valley
And there we'll spend our months and years.

We'll eat of nothing but weeping willow
And drink of nothing but flowing tears
He being on the roadside near her
A hearing of his true love's voice.

He ran, he ran, like one distracted
Saying, my love you are quite low
O, go love, and ask your mother
If you this night, my bride can be.

If she says no, come quick and tell me
It'll be the last time, I'll trouble you
O no, O no, I won't go ask my mother
For she lies on her bed of rest.

And in one hand she holds a letter
That tells about my poor disgrace
Then, go love go, and ask your father
If you this night, my bride can be.

If he says no, come quick and tell me
It'll be the last time I'll trouble thee
O no, O no, I won't go ask my father
For he lies on his bed of rest.

And in one hand he holds a dagger
To kill the one that I love best
Then, he pulled out a silver dagger
And pierced it through her lily white breast.

These words she spoke, just as she staggered
Farewell my love, I'm going to rest
Prepare to meet me on Mount Zion
Where all our joys will be complete.

Then, he picked up the bloody weapon
And pierced it thru his own true heart
Saying, let this be a fearful warning
To parents who, true lovers part.

Max Hunter Coll., Allie Parker, Arkansas, 1958, with music and Real Audio. Lost Henry


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 01:04 AM

Help: Age of East Virginia (1), thread 35233. East Virginia


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Subject: Lyr Add: WHO IS AT MY BEDROOM WINDOW
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 05:13 AM

This is a Nova Scotian version of "The Drowsy Sleeper", which was collected by W. Roy Mckenzie in his Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia (1928; reprinted Folklore Associates, 1963, pp. 99-100; music is on p. 396).

WHO IS AT MY BEDROOM WINDOW
(From the singing of Miss Greta Brown, River John, Pitou County.)

1 "O who is at my bedroom window,
Disturbing me from my night's rest?"
"It is, it is your own true lover,
The very one that you love best.

2 "Go, Maggie dear, go ask your father,
See if our wedding bride may be.
If he says 'No,' love, come and tell me,
And I'll no longer troubled be."

3 "It is no use of asking father,
For he is on his bed of rest,
And by his side a silver dagger
To stab the one that he loves best."

4 "Go, Maggie dear, go ask your mother,
See if our wedding bride may be.
If she says 'No,' love, come and tell me,
And I'll no longer troubled be."

5 "It is no use of asking mother,
Foe she is on to set us free.
You'd better go and court some other,
For you cannot marry me."

6 "I can climb the highest mountains,
I can rob the eagle's nest,
I can go and court some other,
But you're the one that I love best."

7 She drew the dagger from her pocket
And buried it deep, deep in her breast,
Sang adieu to her cruel parents:
"I'll die with the one that I love best."

8 He drew the dagger from her bosom
And buried it deep, deep in his breast,
Sang adieu to her cruel parents,
And she died with the one that she loved best.

There's another Canadian variant which was linked to by Dicho in the former thread.


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Subject: Lyr Add: GO FROM MY WINDOW
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 05:15 AM

A song titled "Go from My Window" is in Maud Karpeles, Folk Songs from Newfoundland (Faber, 1971, pp. 239-240; with music).
"There are many 'Go from My Window' songs, usually bearing the title 'Awake, Awake, [or Arise, Arise] you Drowsy Sleeper'. An extensive list is given BELDEN Missouri, p. 118. The present song differs from the better-known type. J.F.S.S. gives two texts with tunes noted in Dorset. The texts are incomplete, but the stanzas given (two in the first version and five in the second) are practically the same as our text. William Chappell in Popular Music of the Olden Time i, p. 140 refers Beaumont and Fletcher's 'Knight of the Burning Pestle'. The song is given in Johnson's Scots Musical Museum where it is described as 'An ancient ballad with its melody recovered by Burns'." (Karpeles, p. 288)

GO FROM MY WINDOW
(Sung by Mr. Kenneth Monks at King's Cove, Bonavista Bay, 19th September 1929)

One night as I lay on my bed asleep,
I dreamed of a fair pretty maid;
Being so oppressed could take no rest,
Love did torment me so
and 'twas off to my love I did go-o-o-o,
And 'twas off to my love I did go.

I knocked loud and bold at my love's door,
Yes, I knocked loud and bold at the door.
Who is there? she muttered. I heard her voice
And thus I did reply:
It is I, love, and open the door, etc.

My dad and mam they are both awake,
And I'm afraid they will hear you speak,
For if my mam and dad did know
They will undo us both,
And it's go from my window, love, go.

Your dad and mam they are both asleep,
For I was at the window to peep;
They sleep so sure on the bed and snore,
Their voices sound very low,
And it's arise, my love, and open the door.

My love she rose and opened the door
Like an angel as she stood on the floor.
Her eyes shone bright as the stars by night,
No diamonds could shine so,
And 'twas in with my love I did go.

I lay in my love's arms till day,
When she bid me arise and go my way,
For if my dad and mam did know
They will undo us both,
And it's go from my arms, love, go.

And as I was going out of the door
The chairs came rattling down on the floor,
Which woke the old man in surprise
The house did rattle so,
And it's hark, father, how the winds do blow.

It's down in yonder low valley low
Where my love and I oft-times did go,
What we said there we'll never declare,
No mortal man shall know,
For she is my love and her I do adore-ore-ore-ore,
And it's her I adore for evermore.

GO FROM MY WINDOW is in the DT. See also Lyr Add Req 1 wd Go from my window (diff). Steelye Span recorded Go From My Window, and another related song One Night As I Lay On My Bed.

From: The Knight of the Burning Pestle (ACT III):

Msts Merrythought: Why, Charles, do you not know your own natural wife? I say, open the door and turn me out those mangy companions. 'Tis more than time that they were fellow and fellow-like with you. You are a gentleman, Charles, and an old man, and father of two children; and I myself (though I say it) by my mother's side niece to a worshipful gentleman, and a conductor. He has been three times in his majesty's service at Chester, and is now the fourth time, God bless him and his charge, upon his journey.

Old Merrythought: Sings at the window Go from my window, love, go;
Go from my window, my dear.
The wind and the rain
Will drive you back again.
You cannot be lodged here.

Hark you, Mistress Merrythought, you that walk upon adventures and forsake your husband because he sings with never a penny in his purse. What, shall I think myself the worse? Faith, no, I'll be merry. You come not here. Here's none but lads of mettle, lives of a hundred years and upwards. Care never drunk their bloods, nor want made 'em warble, sings

Heigh-ho, my heart is heavy.

Exit from the window.

Msts Merrythought: Why, Master Merrythought, what am I that you should laugh me to scorn thus abruptly? Am I not your fellow-feeler, as we may say, in all our miseries, your comforter in health and sickness? Have I not brought you children? Are they not like you, Charles? Look upon thine own image, hard-hearted man. And yet for all this --

Old Merrythought: Sings within Begone, begone, my juggy, my puggy,
Begone, my love, my dear.
The weather is warm;
'Twill do thee no harm.
Thou canst not be lodged here.
Be merry, boys; some light music and more wine.

Wife: He's not in earnest, I hope, George, is he?

Citizen: What if he be, sweetheart?

Wife: Marry, if he be, George, I'll make bold to tell him he's an ingrant old man to use his bedfellow so scurvily.

For further information, see Claude M. Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music (Rutgers UP, 1966, pp. 257-259).

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 11:07 AM

this doesn't sound like East Virginia to me, it sou8nds like Silver Dagger.
the one I know startt:
I was born in East Virginia
North Carolina I did go
there I met a fair pretty maiden
her name and age I did not know

haven't thought about it in years but the very first Joan Baez record on Vanguard starts with Silver Dagger & the second song is East Virginia (Jean Ritchie's version) could this be the source of the confusion? nt PETE


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 11:15 AM

No. The songs are related, although Joan Baez may not have known that. I wouldn't consider Go From My Window to be part of this group, though.


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 01:06 PM

There is a Scottish variant of "Who is at My Window Weeping?" (Silver dagger var.) called "I Will Put My Ship In Order," according to The Contemplator (Barry Taylor). Has anyone the lyrics to this?

Guest Pete Peterson, this thread became inclusive of all "related" songs in this large, overlapping group with its borrowings back and forth. Somewhere I suggested that "East Virginia (Blues)" could be independent of the rest, partly because the death scenes and murderously inclined fathers of Drowsy Sleeper and Silver Dagger are absent- absence, longing and aching hearts only. Some versions of "In Old Virginny" and "East Virginia" have verses (objections of the father, when I'm dead and in my coffin, lily-white breast, etc.) that partially bridge the gap. Only by finding where in time the tunes and lyrics were consistent can the question be resolved- not easy and probably impossible!


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Subject: Lyr Add: SILVER DAGGER
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 01:52 PM

Here is a version of "Silver Dagger" from Max Hunter, with the dark holler replaced by lonesone valley, and a verse about a christian (crystal?) fountain.

Lyr. Add: SILVER DAGGER

Young men and girls, prolend me your attention
Of these few lines I'm goin' t' write
It's about a young man, who lately courted
A young and beauteous bride.

When her parents came to know this
They locked her up an' kept her so gay
They robbed her of her own dear jewel
Because he was poor as they oft times were.

She wandered till she came to a christian fount'n
She set herself beneath the tree
An' with a sigh, O shall I ever
Ever anymore my true love see.

She pulled out a silver dagger
An' ran it through her snowy white breast
An' with a sigh, O, as she staggered
Farewell, true love, I'm going to rest.

Him a bein' a way down, in a lonesome valley
He heard a cry, so soft n' low
He wrung, he wrung, like one distracted
I'm ruined and I'm dome forever anymore.

Her pretty blue eyes, like the stars were open
She says, sweetheart you've come too late
But pray prepare to meet me in Heaven
Where our love'll be more complete.

He picked up the bloody dagger
An' ran it through his tender heart
O, hain't this a dread-full, dreadfull warn'in'
For such true loves that has to part.

Ollie Gilbert, 1969 Arkansas, in Max Hunter Coll. Cat. #0773, with Real Audio. Variants listed Lost Henry, Sweet William, Silver Dagger and Who Is That At My False Window, all with lyrics and audio. Silver Dagger


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Subject: Lyr Add: I WILL SET MY SHIP IN ORDER
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 04:05 PM

I mentioned the Aberdeenshire group in the previous thread, here, and quoted an extract from a 19th century (perhaps late 18th) text. There are some 23 examples in Greig-Duncan volume 4, which I don't have. Here is the text (no tune given or source named) from John Ord's Bothy Songs and Ballads, 1930.

I WILL SET MY SHIP IN ORDER

I will set my ship in order,
I will sail her upon the sea;
I'll sail far over yonder border
To see if my lovie mind on me.

He sailed east and he sailed west,
And he sailed far, far seeking lan',
Until he came to his true love's window,
And rapped Loudly and would be in.

"Oh, who is that at my bower-window,
That raps so loudly and would be in?"
"It's I, it's I, your own true lover,
Oh rise, oh rise, love, and let me in."

"It's few true lovers I have without,
And as few lovers I have within;
Unless it be my true Love, Johnnie,
And I'm weel sure that ye're no him."

"Oh then, oh then, go and ask your father,
And see if he'll let you marry me,
And if he says no, love, come back and tell me,
For it's the last time I'll visit thee."

"My father's in his chamber writing,
And setting down his merchandise;
And in his hand he holds a letter,
And it speaks much to your dispraise."

"To my dispraise, love, to my dispraise?
To my dispraise, love, how could it be?
For I never slighted nor yet denied you,
Until this night ye've denied me."

"It's oh then, oh then, go and ask your mother,
And see if she'll let you my bride be;
And if she denies then come back and tell me,
And it will be the last time I'll trouble thee."

"My mother's in her chamber sleeping,
And words of love she will not hear,
So ye may go, love, and court another,
And whisper softly in her ear."

Then up she rose, put on her clothing,
It was to let her true love in;
But ere she had the door unlocked
His ship was sailing upon the main.

"Come back, come back, my true love, Johnnie,
Come back, come back and speak to me."
Oh, how can I come and speak wi' thee, love,
When our ship is sailing upon the sea?"

"The fish may fly, and the seas go dry,
And the rocks may melt down wi' the sun,
The working men may forget their labour
Before that I do return again."

She's turned herself right and round about,
And she's flung herself into the sea,
Saying, "Farewell for aye, my true love, Johnnie,
For ye'll never hae to come back to me."


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Subject: Lyr Add: KATIE DEAR (from Blue Sky Boys)
From: Stewie
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 09:47 PM

Here is the Blue Sky Boys version of 'Katie Dear' - daggers everywhere!

KATIE DEAR

Oh Katie dear, go ask your mama
If you can be a bride of mine
If she says yes, come back and tell me
If she says no, we'll run away

Oh Willie dear, there's no need in asking
She's in her room taking her rest
And by her side is a silver dagger
To slay the one that I love best

Oh Katie dear, go ask your papa
If you can be a bride of mine
If he says yes, come back and tell me
If he says no, we'll run away

Oh Willie dear, there's no need in asking
She's in her room taking a rest
And by his side is a silver dagger
To slay the one that I love best

So he picked up that silver dagger
And plunged it through his troubled heart
Saying, 'Goodbye Katie, goodbye darlin'
It's now forever we must part'

So she picked up that bloody dagger
And plunged it through her lily-white breast
Saying, 'Goodbye papa, goodbye mama,
I'll die for the one that I love best'

Source: transcription of Blue Sky Boys [Bill & Earl Bolick] 'Katie Dear' recorded in Charlotte, North Carolina, on 25 January 1938 and released as Bluebird B7661 in August 1938. Reissued on CD on Various Artists 'Are You From Dixie?: Great Brother Teams of the 1930s' RCA 8417-2-R.

I don't have access to the earlier Callahan Brothers recording under this title. Does anyone have it?

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Stewie
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 09:53 PM

My apologies, the second line of stanza 4 in my previous post should read 'He's in his room taking a rest'. I was saving typing by copying stanza 2, but was distracted and forgot to make changes to that line. Perhaps a JoeClone could fix it and delete this message.

--Stewie.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SILVER DAGGER (trad. Arkansas)
From: Stewie
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 10:28 PM

Here is a 'Silver Dagger' from Arkansas:

THE SILVER DAGGER

Young man and maid, pray lend attention
And a story I'll relate
Of the young man who I will mention
That courted fair a pretty girl

And when his parents came to know this
They strove against it night and day
And said, 'Oh, son, don't be so foolish
For she's too poor for to marry you'

Down on his bended knees a-crying
Saying, 'Cruel parents, pity me;
Don't keep me from my own dear Julie
What's all this world without her to me

He wandered off by flowing waters
He taken his seat by a shady tree
He set and said, 'Oh, shall I ever
Ever any more my true love see'

Then he being close unto a thicket
He thought he heard a female's voice
He run to her like one distracted
And said, 'Oh, true love, I'm forever lost'

Then she lay fainting by his feet side
Her cold, dark eyes like stars they shine
Saying, 'Prepare to meet me on Mount Zion
Where all true loves in peace do meet'

Then she pulled out a silver dagger
She pieced it through her snow-white breast
Saying, 'Adieu, adieu, I'm gone forever
I'm gone forevermore to rest'

Then he picked up this bloody weapon
He pierced it through his tender heart
Saying, 'Leave this as dreadful token
To those that keep me and Julie apart'

Source: transcription in Duncan Emrich 'American Folk Poetry' pp75-76. Recorded by John A. Lomax and Laurence Powell from the singing of Mrs Emma Dusenbury at Mena, Arkansas, in 1936. Library of Congress AFS record 866. Laws G21.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 10:42 PM

I went to the library today with little luck. Didn't have much time. I looked at Claude M. Simpson's The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music to find early British Broadsides but found nothing there.

I agree with Malcolm that, "Go From My Window" is not part of this branch. I found 4 English versions by Sharp (all in 3/2) but they are around the turn of the century like the one posted by Malcolm.

According to several sources "The Drowsy Sleeper originated as a British broadside ballad."

Sharp says "The Silver Dagger" is generally assumed to be American but "it takes its title and some of its details from a British Ballad (Sharp II, p.229)."

Does anyone know of a British "Silver Dagger"? The library didn't have much info that was readily accessible.

What is the British broadside source of "Drowsey Sleeper"? Was that the Bodelian Ballad (1817) posted by Toadfrog?

I've got several different American versions I will try and post at a later date.

Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAIDEN'S COMPLAINT (from Bodleian)
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 12:48 AM

Here is another Bodleian broadside of The Drowsy Sleeper, but under another name.

Lyr. Add: THE MAIDEN'S COMPLAINT.

Awake, awake, you drowsy sleeper,
Awake, awake, 'tis break of day,
Can you sleep my love any longer,
Since my poor heart you've stole away.

Ah! who is that under my window,
Ah! who comes there to disturb my rest?
'Tis thy lover, the young man did answer
Long thus I have waited for your sake.

Jemmy, says she, should my father hear you,
We shall be ruined I fear;
He will send a cruel press gang for you,
And separate you and me, my dear.

Her father chanc'd to overhear them,
And for a press gang sent straight-way;
Against this young man gave information,
And sent him sailing on the sea.

So now my dear daughter I have deprived you
Of your love whom I have sent to see; (sic)
And now you may send him a letter,
With your misfortunes acquainted to be.

Oh cruel father pay down my fortune
Five hundred pounds is due you know;
And I will cross the briny ocean,
To find my true love I will go.

Jemmy is the man that I do admire,
He is the man that I do adore;,
And if I can't have my heart's desire
Single I will go for evermore.

Harding B 17 (183a). Printer, T. Birt, 10, Great St. Andrew Street, wholesale and retail, Seven Dials, London, Country Orders punctually attended to, Every description of Printing on reasonable terms.
Between 1828 and 1829.
Not quite as old as the 1817 printing found by Toadfrog, no snowy hills but a cruel press gang.


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Subject: Lyr Add: AWAKE, DROWSY SLEEPER (from Bodleian)
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 02 - 01:14 AM

And another Bodelian broadside, this one 1863-1885.

Lyr. Add: AWAKE, DROWSY SLEEPER

Awake, awake, you drowsy sleeper
Awake, awake, it is almost day,
How can you be there and sleep so easy
Since my poor heart you have stole away.

Oh, who is that underneath my window?
Oh who is that that sings so sweet?
It's me, my dear, the young man made answer,
Long time been waiting for your sweet sake.

My mother lies in the next chamber,
My father he will quickly hear
So I'd have you go, love, and court some other,
Or whisper softly in my ear.

Oh no I won't go and court no other,
Since I have rifled your sweet charms
You are fit, love, for to leave your mother,
You're fitter to sleep in your true love's arms.

The old man heard in their conclusion
He gently stept out of the bed,
He popped his old head out of the window
But Jane's true love was gone and fled.

Daughter, daughter, I will close confine you,
Your brisk young lad I will send to sea
Then you may write to him a letter,
And he may read it in Botany Bay.

Jim is the lad that I do admire
Jim is the lad I mean to wed
And if I can't have my own desire
A maid I will go to my silent grave.

Two copies: Firth C17 (25) and Harding B 11 (3643).

Can't find anything in the broadsides under Dagger or Sword that belongs to this group. The dagger could be an American addition (See Richie, above).


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 10:48 PM

Here's some info on the Arise Arise/Awake Awake/Drowsy Sleeper which relates to East Virginia. Sharp does not have a version of the Silver Dagger according to a Sharp researcher in London. Here's some other info I've receive I wanted to share with you.

From Peta, a Sharp researcher in London:

1) Roud index gives No.402 (LawsM4) to the 205 examples given, typical title being Awake, arise you drowsy Sleeper. Sharp's titles are Arise, Arise (Jack Barnard,James Saunders, Lucy White,Amos Ash, Rebecca Holland) plus one example of title Awake, Awake (James Saunders) .First lines differ, several include the phrase "Drowsy sleeper". Card Index at VWML refers search for Awake,Awake and Arise, Arise to Drowsy Sleeper. The Drowsy Sleeper card lists the aforementioned examples collected by Sharp. It seems reasonable to conclude therefore that Sharp (as Roud, Laws) considered Awake/Arise /Drowsy sleeper to be all variants of the same song. 3)b) Silver Dagger has Roud No.711 (LawsG21). There are 86 refs., all USA/Canada. Card Index gives first line as "Young Men and maidens pay attention". All refs seem to be USA./Canada. Sharp version in "Eng. Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians" has this first line. I conclude therefore that this is a separate song from Awake, etc. Version of Silver Dagger in English Dance & Song Vol 27.2 1965 turns out to be a version collected by Sharp in Virginia,1918, starting "Come young men and pay attention". I can find no ref. to Sharp collecting an English version of Silver Dagger. Roud gives 17 refs. to Sharp's versions collected in the USA. 2),4) Madden Broadside collection has Awake/Arise/Drowsy texts printed by Catnach,Jackson,Eavans,Pitts but the broadsides are not dated. Actual collecting of songs only started in the 1890s, so Sharp's would probably be the/among the/ earliest. Another collector, PW.Percy Merrick, contributes to Journal of Folk Song Society "O, who is that that raps at my window?" (a version of Awake,Awake) collected from Henry Hills,Sussex, 1904 (JEFSS Vol. 1 No.5 1904).

Richie


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 11:21 PM

That would be Peta Webb, assistant librarian at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library (Cecil Sharp House, London). You need to bear in mind that there are two distinct Silver Dagger songs; one, which is familiar from Joan Baez' arrangement of it, is a Drowsy Sleeper variant (Roud 402); the other (Roud 711) is a murder ballad, and probably not germane to this discussion.


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 12:27 AM

Malcolm-

Thanks for providing the necessary details to my post. Your knowledge and contributions to this thread (and manyothers) is appreciated.

Richie


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:44 PM

Ran across a "Silver Dagger" sung by Dolly Parton. It is of the variation "My daddy is a handsome devil" with the ending "I'll sleep alone all of my life" because men can't be trusted.
Dolly Dagger


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 08:50 AM

I'm posting another response from Peta Webb about our search for early version of Drowsey Sleeper from the Arise Arise/Awake Awake/East Virginia group.

Dear Richie, Thank you for sending info. on the 1834 reference and 1817 version. As we have now shifted tack from English to Scots versions, I had look at Ord and Greig- Duncan references but these certainly don't seem to pre-date Sharp. I also had a look at our Broadside Index and found several references to Drowsy Sleeper on our microfilms of the Madden Collection in Cambridge University Library. The Broadsides are undated: printers are Such ( working from 1849 on); Catnach (1813 on); Jackson, Birmingham (dates unknown); Baird of Cork (dates unknown). Catnach version is similar to the 1817 version -refers to "Jemmy" - but is several stanzas shorter. As far as I can tell, you have answered your own question, and these 1834 and 1817 items are likely to be the earliest versions of The Drowsy Sleeper- unless you have any way of more precisely dating the Catnach version. Sincerely, Peta Webb Vaughan Williams Memorial Library (Cecil Sharp House, London).


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 03:01 PM

So far, the oldest (Chrome, Sheffield, 1817; Birt, London, 1828, title "The Maiden's Complaint"; 1834, and possibly Catnach, date (?)) all refer to the boy as Jemmy; forming a related group.
More versions may be in the Bodleian or other repository under names such as "The Maiden's Complaint," which aren't recognizable as "The Drowsy Sleeper" unless they are looked at.

"Jemmy and Nancy of Yarmouth" tells the same story of separation and cruel parents, in an overlong ballad printed by Bebbington in 1858-1861, Bodleian 2806 c.16(319). Other Jemmy and Nancy ballads are unrelated.
Jemmy

Also see "The Cruel Father," undated, Harding B25(450), and especially "The Cruel Father, or the Maiden's Complaint," Harding B25(452), pub. 1819-1844, Pitts and Toy, which begins "Awake, awake, you drowsy sleeper," another one with Jemmy; a different printing of "The Maiden's Complaint" from the one already transcribed.

There may be a relationship with some versions of "The Cruel Father and Affectionate Lovers," where the lover is a servant or clerk; the locale may be Shannon or England (1813-1838); and The Cruel Father and the Constant Lover, 1802-1819, 2806 c18(76) and others. These involve a dungeon and probably are separate ballads.
Also see "The Cruel Father," printed Edinburgh, Firth c12(298), sems to be fairly late 19th C., "a young sailor".


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Subject: RE: Help: Age of East Virginia TWO
From: GUEST,JoyousM
Date: 03 Oct 14 - 10:52 PM

William W. Trotter in 'Silk Flags and Cold Steel- The Civil War in North Carolina: The Piedmont'cites a letter from young woman discussing how they celebrated Christmas which includes a quote that we sang ". . . When I lived in the state of Virginia, to Carolina in did go, and there I saw a handsome lady, Oh! Her name, I did not know."
That places that fragment of lyric to 1864 or earlier, but I haven't been able to find the song referenced by just that fragment.


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