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BS: Other anniversaries this week (Chile ?)

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Gareth 10 Sep 02 - 07:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Sep 02 - 07:35 PM
Liz the Squeak 11 Sep 02 - 03:07 AM
Wolfgang 11 Sep 02 - 05:44 AM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Sep 02 - 05:56 AM
Wolfgang 11 Sep 02 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Bagpuss 11 Sep 02 - 06:05 AM
GUEST,maryrrf 11 Sep 02 - 09:27 AM
Brian Hoskin 11 Sep 02 - 09:56 AM
InOBU 11 Sep 02 - 10:25 AM
sian, west wales 11 Sep 02 - 10:47 AM
Chip2447 12 Sep 02 - 12:13 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 02 - 08:57 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 12 Sep 02 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Taliesn 12 Sep 02 - 08:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Sep 02 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,Taliesn 13 Sep 02 - 04:42 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Sep 02 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,Taliesn 13 Sep 02 - 07:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Sep 02 - 08:27 AM

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Subject: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:12 PM

Does anybody remember what happened on 9/11 1973 ??

The coup in Chile - The murder of President Allende, and the destruction of democracy in Chile.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:35 PM

True. With even more people murdered in the course of the CIA backed coup than on September 11th. Including Victor Jara, whose hands were broken to stop him playing the guitar in the stadium before they shot him.

Victor Jara of Chile
Lived like a shooting star
He fought for the people of Chile
With his songs and his guitar
His hands were gentle, his hands were strong


That's from a poem by Adrian Mitchell with a tune by Arlo Guthrie. And here is a link to the whole song - and here is a link to a page with RealAudio of him singing his own songs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 03:07 AM

Seems like a week for bad things. It was mine and Manitas' 12 wedding anniversary last Sunday!

LTS

(sorry, I'll get me coat....)


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:44 AM

By the way, just having read the quarrel in another thread about the correct way to write the date of today, in Chile they do not even mention the month, they just say "el once".

Two corrections: There's hardly any doubt now, that Allende was not murdered but shot himself and Jara had no guitar with him in the stadium.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:56 AM

In the circumstances I'd call that a kind of murder, killing yourself as an act of defiance against those who would kill you.

And I don't think the fact that Victor Jara didn't have a guitar with him would have been likely to stop his captors thinking it a neat idea to break his hands anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:03 AM

It never helps any case being incorrect or using words in a very unusual sense. The known facts are brutal enough and don't need additional legends.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:05 AM

I used to have a diary, called a "disaster diary" which detailed disasters - natural, manmade and murderous which happened on every day of the year. It reminded me how much suffering there is in the world and that every day is an anniversary of some tragic event to someone in the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:27 AM

YOu're absolutely correct about "el once" in Chile and there were thousands killed and tortured. At one time there were over a million Chileans in exile - and at the time the population of Chile was only about 11 million. It was horrendous and orchestrated by the United States. Where was their concern for democracy and human rights when it had to do with the democratically elected Salvador Allende? I guess that didn't count, because he was a socialist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:56 AM

I remember another stanza to Mitchell's poem which isn't on Arlo's site, it is something like:

Now Pinochet rules Chile, and he rules with British thanks,
For he rules with Hawker Hunters, and he rules with Chieftain tanks.
And his hands were gentle, his hands were strong


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 10:25 AM

To my sisters and brothers in Chile from New York, La lucha continua. Peace and hope, Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 10:47 AM

Other anniversaries?

Robert Service, died this day, 1958

From the Toronto Globe & Mail: Writer born Jan. 16, 1874, at Preston, England; immigrated to Canada in 1896 in hopes of becoming a cowboy; took job as bank teller in Whitehorse; wrote series of Gold Rush poems and novels, including The Shooting of Dan McGrew and The Cremation of Sam McGee;died at Lancieux, France.

sian


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Chip2447
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:13 AM

September 11th, 1941...Ground was broken today for the New war department building, an oddly shaped 5 sided building:Click here


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:57 AM

Sept 16th is the 20th anniverary of the massacre of Palestinians in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. The Red Cross put the death toll at 2750. I will be holding a minute's silence for them, how many others will join me?


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:10 PM

On September 11 1973 several gold miners were shot dead near Johannesburg while campaigning for union recognition. Unfortunately the incident was upstaged by those goings on in Chile.

Here again (I quoted it in an earlier thread) is what Kissinger had to say about the Chile business: "We do not have to accept a country going Marxist because of the irresponsibility of its people."


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:27 PM

(quote) "Here again (I quoted it in an earlier thread) is what Kissinger had to say about the Chile business: ...yada , yada ,yada .

Yes as you never seem to tire of repeating. Some of us already have read "The Trial of Henry Kissinger" by Christopher Hitchens whom is far more eloquent and extensive on the subject . Some of us are well briefed on the Noam Chomsky lectures in print and broadcast.

They atleast never make it their goal to be tiresome.

Doesn't the Animal Rights Activist credo include the crime of beating dead horses?


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:07 PM

How many years does it take till reminding people of a huge crime becomes "beating a dead horse"?

Will there ever be a politician with the grace to admit that the country he or she leads have been guilty of crimes as bad as or worse than those of today's enemies? And that would mean identifying the guilty, starting at the very top.

Maybe they think that this would undermine their moral authority or something. I think it'd be the other way round.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 04:42 AM

(quote) "How many years does it take till reminding people of a huge crime becomes "beating a dead horse"? "

It's not a case of not reminding. I thought that I had pointed out that the authors/lectureres mentioned above do so quite eloquently.

While on this subject ,would also reminding the descendents of the crimes ( genocide for one ) of the once Empire of Spain ,whom *conquistadored* and continue , to this day, to lay waste to the indigenous cultures and rain forests, to create what has become "Latin America" , with it's culture of bloody dictatorships, be worthy of mention as well.

Would reminding one of the sterling record of Euro-expansion into Africa and the collusion with the Arab slave trade qualify as "beating a dead horse"?

How about the Brit Empire and Opium? French "Indochine". "Dead horses" as well?

I guess it's a case of that country without sin casting the first stones in the global glass house we all share . Let us be reminded of it *all* shall we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 05:18 AM

Remember it all. But more especially while the crimes are still well within living memory, and the people who are responsible are still among us, holding positions of honour in our countries.

Chile's September 11th is a lot closer in history than the Holocaust. Or maybe that's a dead horse as well? There are of course people who would like it to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:16 AM

(quote) "Chile's September 11th is a lot closer in history than the Holocaust. Or maybe that's a dead horse as well? There are of course people who would like it to be. "

Hardly at work here , but why you and a handful of others feel as if this issue of Chile is not mentioned enough because of it being overshadowed by this first crime of the 21st century, in a single day's premeditated act of terrorist mass murder against a civilian target , is more than a bit *strained*.

It's as if this 9/11 event were somehow not *politically correct* enough for some. Lest we need reminding of the current destruction and desecration of Tibet. Like no one seems to bother with the anniversary of the fateful days of Tiananmen Square anymore. It seems that politically correct *remembrances* are subject to ideologically *selective memory*.


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Subject: RE: BS: Other anniveraries this week (Chile ?)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:27 AM

Selective memory is, I agree, a very bad thing.


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Mudcat time: 20 October 7:30 AM EDT

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