Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal

Subject: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 11:39 AM

Don't you wish you could click a link to get a lyric file to the songs posted at Honkingduck??

I have asked James Reidy (it's his site) if anyone is collecting. He says not, and that people write him all the time for lyrics he doesn't have. I bet we already have a bunch of them, and I bet there are many here who would post more of them via transcription. And I know we could provide a lot of other info on them and on the artists, too.

I have asked Mr. Reidy how he would want to handle these at his end, because it will influence how we do our end. There would be some similarity here with the Spirituals project, except I think this time we might batch things into threads by artist name, since that's how they are at Honkingduck. (Although doing that makes it harder to get replies when a new thread is started, because the song title is so important to jogging people's memories about songs they know.) But I would start just like I did on the spirituals-- do searches of existing threads first, and build an index.

What do you think? Would you help on it, and how? Would we want a Permathread? Is there a tech volunteer to do the thread-edits?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From:
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 01:49 PM

Do you mean something like this?

Blue Ridge Ramblers

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 02:22 PM

Yup, a collection of things that could range from that GREAT work to new threads doing missed ones.

Do we have a lot of them do you think, already? Or do you mean the project is already on and I just didn't know it?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 02:48 PM

I can't see any written lyrics there on that link, which I take it is what Wissie is talking about.

I imagine there are sites around with some of the lyrics already - for example for Carter Family songs there is this. I've got a feeling that at one time Honking Duck used to give a link to this next to the songs, but it doesn't seem to now.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From:
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 05:48 PM

As McGrath said, I Couldn't find any lyrics on the Honking Duck site either. I picked a few to look at, and found one, which I knew we already had two of the three sets of lyrics (including Forum Discussions on it) and was even more gratified to see that the Henhouse Door one was also in the Forum, but not yet in the DT itself (or at least not the one online).

I made a representative link which tied to the Honking Duck link of the three songs, and linked to the DT Database for the first two, and if I had more time then, I would have linked to the threads talking about those songs. Plus the link to the Forum on the Henhouse door.

Not that I am volunteering for a position on this organization, but I would be happy to do thread creations like that when I visit there and see we already have a set of the lyrics.

Mind you, I haven't listened to any of the RealAudio files to see if the lyrics are exactly what they have. They would also have to have a reciprocal link to our thread covering the lyrics for what I THINK Susan is suggesting to work.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 05:52 PM

I left it to HD to see how they would want to link, and I do not have an answer yet. One possibility is just a generic link to an index thread we could create here. Another is a link there, to a thread message here suggesting that the DT and threads be searched. I know that where existing threads are found, I would listen to the RA at HD and add any corrections.

Perhaps the most tantalizing approach, IMO, would be to ask HD to simply forward to me any new lyric requests they receive. I could ask the requestor to do the search here and to transcribe and CONTRIBUTE to a project here, turning a "gimme" service into a "share".

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 06:05 PM

But it'd also be worth hunting around and seeing where there are sites like that Carter Family one where the work has already been done.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Sep 02 - 06:18 PM

Oh yes, definitely, just we did with the spirituals. Mostly, though, the Mudcat threads do indicate such sources where they have existed, thanks in large part lately to Masato Sakurai. But we also have a policy here of "when in doubt, post AND cite source." Because those other sites do disappear. So I would add the link and citration but also copy-paste it to here.

Also, that Carter site (for one) has a lot of really meatball transcription errors-- on the gospel pieces they have total nonsense for some phrases, because whoever transcribed appears not to have known the Bible passage referenced. So when they misheard, they had no knowledge to draw on to see if what they transcribed might have had a more sensible alternative. Mudcatters tend to keep at it till someone with a clean recording posts what THEY are hearing.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 11:03 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 08:36 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 01:14 PM

One of the Artistes featured in the Honking Duck website is Uncle Dave Macon. We already have a thread full of Dave Macon lyrics which started in response to a lyric request which I posted. The challenge was taken up by Mudcatter Stewie who has since added as many of Uncle Dave's songs, often with a commentary and possible interpretations of what might have been intended.Anyway - we ducks should try to flock together!
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 01:22 PM

WHOOPS - I forgot to put a blicky to the thread!
Uncle Dave Macon lyrics BLICKY HERE
GtD!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 06:42 AM

The Dave Macon Lyrics thread just resurfaced with yet another song lyric added by Stewie. I have put a link from that thread to HERE in case somebody can get this proposal started using data they already have available.
Quack
Geoff the Duck!

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 02:09 PM

Could use a hand over here:

Any Charlie Poole interest

... where I am up to my ass in alligators looking up songs and cross-referencing them with Honkingduck, DT, and old threads. We're getting chords posted for Charlie Poole songs.

I am working my way down the list-- if you want to wade in, how about you take the bottom and work your way up, and we'll meet in the middle.

Thanks,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 11:13 PM

Poole research is done (in DT & threads), now I need a hand knowing if I am correct that certain songs are related to other songs posted at the Cat.

~S~

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: GUEST,JGReidy
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 09:34 AM

I put a link to the search page ( http://supersearch.mudcat.org/@AdvSuperSearch.cfm ) that supplies the song title. You still have to press the 'Search' button once you get there. I couldn't get the link to the search results page to work from my end - some errors in #searchstring# from cold fusion. Maybe some tech person could help me from your end. I hope this much helps anyway.
-JGReidy

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 09:58 AM

James, you should have the following via e-mail now:

Now that I see how you linked to Mudcat, I think we better change the copy slightly.... more results will come up for the artist name in many cases, and often from a line from the lyric, than for just the song title which you have going into the search field automatically. And if you automate it too much people will never learn how to search and use all Mudcat has to offer. So I think you might want to remove the automated title entirely and say this:

"Honkingduck.com does not provide any song lyrics. Many of the songs here can be found at The Mudcat Cafe, either in the Digital Tradition lyric database hosted there, or in the Forum of lyrics, chords, and discussions of song variants and artists. To search the DT and Forum, search by song title, artist, or a phrase from the lyric, HERE.

To participate in the all-volunteer, ongoing project at Mudcat to post the lyrics of the songs at Honkingduck, please e-mail [e-mail], using the word MUDCAT in the subject line."

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 10:08 AM

To catch people up-- James and I have been corresponding about all of this and I have explained that we have several threads going where various artists's lyrics are gathered up, either posted in the main thread for that artist, or indexed. As these are organized, he'll be deciding how to send folks here. For example, we have Uncle Dave Macon and Charlie Poole threads-- he may want to link directly to these at some point, for those artists.

He has also explained to me that for what he has added above, it's pretty much a batch opeation-- not requiring him to go into each of his hundreds of listings to build hundreds of links, one by one, back to here.

Of course this is a brand-new way to link between sites, and we'll want to see how it goes with our friends at Honkingduck before trying to apply it with other sites. But the more we index ourselves around here, the more valuable links to the Mudcat will be, and the more specific they may get over time. So let's work out the bugs as we go, with this project, and see what we learn.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Mudcat Honkingduck Oldtime Project Proposal
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 11:20 AM

Nathan in Texas has just posted some Honking Duck Lyrics in a mudcat thread - I Don't Reckon It'll Happen Again.
I thought It should be cross linked to this project.
Quack!
GtD.