Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune

Subject: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Albatross
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:51 AM

In the 1960's, and earlier, Topic records (Tony Engle, Reg Hall and others) made some valuable recordings of East Anglian hammer dulcimer, melodeon & fiddle players. One of their tunes is called 'Redwing' and played later by the Old Hat Band who have done a lot of good work in this area. In the old recording of 'Redwing' you can hear some old boy singing something about the "sun shines brightly in the Dardenelles". Anybody know the history of this song and the lyrics? Many thanks, Albatross

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:02 PM

Albatross, is it the stame tune and structure as the Red Wing (click) we have in the Digital Tradition?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: IanC
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 12:19 PM

Yes, the tune's the same "Redwing" polka. I think Albatross is just trying to find out if anyone else has heard or knows those particular words.

I've heard the band play "Redwing" but I have to say I've never really listened to what was being sung in the background.

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 02:31 PM

O, the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin,
His shoes are cracking
For want of blacking,
And his little baggy trousers they need mending
Before they send him
To the Dardanelles.

A parody c.1915 of the song Little Redwing

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 02:44 PM

Guest-- source?

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 03:01 PM

Sorry, Susan.
English Country Music Topic 12T296 for the tune Redwing as played by Walter Bulwer on fiddle, Billy Cooper on dulcimer, Daisy Bulwer on piano accompanied by Reg Hall on melodeon, Mervyn Plunkett on snare-drum and Russell Wortley on pipe-and-tabor.

This LP was made from a recording by Reg Hall and Mervyn Plunkett at Wlter and Daisy's house in Shipdam, Norfolk in August 1962. The recordings have been reissued on CD by Topic with some added material as 'English Country Music' on Topic TSCD607. Very highly recommended.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 03:18 PM

Damn!! Message partly lost in cyberspace!!

What I meant to say was that:

Reg Hall quoted these lyrics (without giving a source; he probably thought that it was a well known ditty) in his notes to the tune Redwing on the Topic 1976 LP English Country Music: Topic 12T296, where the tune is played by:-
Walter Bulwer - Fiddle
Billy Cooper - Hammer Dulcimer
Daisy Bulwer - Piano
Reg Hall - Melodeon
Mervyn Plunkett - snare drum
Russell Wortley - Pipe-and-tabor

The LP, which influenced many English musicians, just as an earlier (very) limited edition of 99 copies had when released in 1965, was based on recordings made in the Bulwer's cottage in Shipdam, Norfolk in August 1962.

Topic recently reissued the recordings on CD as 'English Country Music' TSCD607 together with some additional material also recorded by Mervyn Plunkett from the Bulwers in 1960 and 1959, and with Scan Tester added playing concertina from 1966. Well worth listening to!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 03:28 PM

Thanks, Guest, well done!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 07:20 PM

O, the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin,
His boots are cracking
For want of blacking,
And his old fusty coat is needing mending
Before we send him
To the Dardanelles.

My dad (b 1922) used to sing this. He said he learnt it when he was a boy. Is "fusty" a corruption of fustian?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 07:32 PM

Original tune and song (Redwing, not the Charlie Chaplin parody) written by the great Kerrry Mills, who also wrote Whistling Rufus,( beloved by melodeon players and also a big hit for the Chris Barber Jazz Band) and "At a Georgia Camp Meeting, also a big early jazz number.

Subject: Lyr Add: CHARLIE CHAPLIN (from Oldham Tinkers)
From: Stewie
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 08:10 PM

I recall the parody from an old 'Oldham Tinkers' album. Fuller lyrics than the stanza posted above have been posted to the rec.music.folk newsgroup. The Oldham Tinkers sang most of these - in a children's songs medley, I think:

CHARLIE CHAPLIN

And the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin
His boots are cracking for t' want of blacking
And his old fusty coat is wanting mending
Until they send him to the Dardanelles

Charlie Chaplin, meek and mild, swiped a sausage from a child
When the child began to cry, Charlie socked him in the eye

Charlie Chaplin had no sense, he bought a fiddle for eighteen pence
And the only tune that he could play was Ta-ra-ra-boom-de-ay

Charlie Chaplin went to France to teach the ladies how to dance
First your heel and then your toe; lift up your skirts and 'round you go

Charlie, Charlie, chook, chook, chook, went to bed with three white ducks
One died, Charlie cried, Charlie, Charlie, chook, chook, chook

One, two, three, O'leary, I saw my Auntie Sary
Standing in the door, O'leary, kissing Charlie Chaplin
--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 08:17 PM

I think they got that additional material from Iona and Peter Opie; it certainly wasn't part of the original parody (or, I think, sung to the same tune), which seems to have been very widely known in the 1920s and '30s.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:08 PM

Oh, the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin,
His boots are crackin'
For want o' blacknin'.
And his little baggy trousers needin' mendin'
Before we send him
Tae the Dardanelles.

That's how I learned it from Jeannie Robertson in Aberdeen, Scotland (1958). I included it on my 1959 Elektra record, in a medley with other kids' songs.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: IanC
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 05:08 AM

Snuffy - "Fusty" means mouldy :-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Albatross
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 12:15 PM

Many thanks, to the contributions on this Redwing song.

It seems a lot of Victorian, Music hall (eg Jenny Lind) and war time songs entered the folk tradition without having such a long antiquity but still having an equal contribution.

As seems to be commonly the case with folk tradition there is Scottish, Australian, American, Irish, various regional English variations,etc.

There is an old thread on the Wild Rover song originally noted down in Norfolk by Cecil Sharp which may have just been sung all over.

I think we all have a natural tendency to want to claim ownership to traditions and lay claim to their sources. Of course songs,tunes,dances must have started somewhere but does it really matter anyway.

I like to think there is a complex network of interconnections caused by many areas rich in tradition and by many travellers carrying stuff around and changing its form.

As always though we should respect people's traditions and not undermine their claims of ownership if only for the fact they are helping to keep them thriving.

Albatross (whoops getting a bit philosophical)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: IanC
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 12:22 PM

The interesting thing about Redwing is that it's the tune which seems to have got into the traditional repertoire ... probably, in East Anglia, because it fits nicely with the East Anglian obsession with good polkas. The words were most likely known (there's a good parody of the song used as a rugby song - words not on the web as far as I can tell) but never really all that popular, at least around here (here being East Anglia). I remember it from my childhood so I think it must have been very popular around the 50s and 60s.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:37 PM

Do you mean this one, Ian?

Oh the moon shines bright on Nellie Cartwright
She couldn't fart right
Her arse was airtight
...??????

I've been looking for the rest of that for ages

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: fishhead50
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

My Mother's version

The moon shines bright on pretty Redwing
The night is dying the leaves sighing
And the little boys trousers they need patching
Where he's been scratching
Mosquito bites.

Mom was a Miami native (b. 1922) and she would sing the chorus to my brother and I as a lullabye.

Hugh Davis

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:10 PM

Where can I find a link to Kerry Mills having written Red Wing? It doesn't seem like his usual ragtime and jazzy tunes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM

At the Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection, for example:

Red Wing. An Indian Intermezzo: Words by Thurland Chattaway. Music by Kerry Mills. New York: F.A. Mills, 32 West 29th St., 1907. Box: 149 Item: 055

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:29 AM

Well here we are agin,
Yu cun git the muusic und the words togither if yu goo to Traditionalmusic.co.uk but im blessed if I know if that's what we play 'cos I kent read muusic. Know doubt that we probably all play it different anyhow. The Bumpstead Boys, Katie Howsons band and her pupils the Button Bashers ull all play it. Good point Ian about the polka obsession, rounds an evening nicely, git the awdeunce polkerin around a village hall.
As Sundies me day orf i could write a lot more, but typical ent it, I ent got no more tu say, apart frum cherio.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: a gud ole bwoy
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:31 AM

Well wud yer credit it me buscuit got vapourized

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:01 PM

Thanks, Malcolm Douglas.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: trayton
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 10:36 AM

hi,
i thought the line was:

"And his old fustian coat is needing mending"

fustian from the OED = a napped fabric of a mixture of linen and cotton or wool.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,JOHN FRO
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:24 AM

Peggy Seeger made a recording of a song, the chorus being,
"You can`t scare me I`m sticking to the Union" to the tune of both verse and chorus of "Redwing". I recall the song starts:-
"There once was a Union maid
Who never was afraid
Of goons and ginks and company finks
And sheriff that made the raid.
One night at the Union hall........."
CH.
"You can`t scare me I`m sticking to the Union.
I`m sticking to the Union
I`m sticking to the Union
Oh you can`t scare me I`m sticking to the Union
I`m sticking to the Union
Till the day I die"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 08:10 PM

My Mom used to sing a song about a tin Lizzie and it was to the tune of Let Me Call you Sweetheart.   The song ended something like this....   Let me call you Lizzie, I'm in love with you, let me hear you rattle like old Ford cars do, let me call you Lizzie, I still for you.
Does anyone know the lyrics to this cute song?
Thanks

---

Please see this thread (click).
thanks.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Aug 10 - 08:50 PM

A couple more versions found in old books:

Oh, the moon shines bright on Mrs. Porter,
And on her daughter,
A regular snorter;
She has washed her neck in dirty water,
She didn't oughter,
The dirty cat

O the moon shines bright on Mrs. Porter
And on the daughter
Of Mrs. Porter.
They wash their feet in soda water
And so they oughter
To keep them clean.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Aug 10 - 02:44 AM

That one was quoted by T.S. Eliot in "The Waste Land".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 12 - 02:07 PM

there once was a indian maid
who wasn't aabit afraid
she laid on her back
in an indian shack
and let the cowboyw stick it up her crack

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Bert
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 12:41 PM

Learned in school in the early fifties
(but not in the classroom)


There once was an Indian Maid
and she was so afraid
that some Buckaroo would
Shove her up a few
while she was lying in the shade

Now some Buckaroo got wise
a twinkle in his eyes
a bloody great prick
just like a walking stick
he shoved it up her thighs

She said I'm not your wife
whipped out her Bowie knife
and with one mighty pass
cut his balls from his ass
His shagging days are over

Oh the moon shines so bright on Pretty Redwing
as she lays yawning
from night 'till morning
those Redskins balls are hanging as a warning
now they're adorning
her wigwam door.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jan 12 - 12:54 PM

it is no more an east anglian song and tune in its origins than colonel bogey.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 03:38 AM

That thet ent, GSS, but thass still wholly poplar in th'owd pub what Oi goes tew. Blarst, some good owd boy'l sing thet most toimes - just yew try a-stopping of 'un!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 03:56 AM

like this guy, segues into redwing from let me call you sweetheart and seems to know a middle eight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPF2XyVIXYM

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 04:23 AM

The 'soda-water- version is also quoted in Ernest Raymond's WWi novel "Tell England" [1922]

~M~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jan 12 - 04:33 AM

The bit in between the two main "Redwing" themes that he plays is not part of the original tune - certainly not a middle eight 'cos "Redwing: just has two themes to it. I reckon it's another tune sandwiched in between to break it up a bit.

I can see why "Redwing" would be popular at a tunes sessions - the A theme twice through then the B theme twice through. The original sheet music has a quartet section to be sung if required!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,Boone
Date: 15 Mar 12 - 07:17 PM

My grandfather had a version like this:

Oh you can't scare me I'm in the union
What kind of union? -The Western Union!
oh you can't scare me I'm in the union
I'm in the union, until I die.

Now the moon shines bright on Charlie Chaplin
His shoes are crackin'
-They need a blacknin'
And these pretty lil pants -they need a patchin'
where he was scratchin'
Mosquito bites

   (very fast) -Now I had a little monkey took him to the country
                     Fed him on Gingerbread,
    Along came asshole-basshole kicked 'em in the asshole
                   now my monkey's DEAD

Oh you can't scare me I'm in the Union
What kind of union? -The Western Union!
Oh you can't scare me I'm in the union
I'm in the union
Until I die!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,David Shulman
Date: 07 Aug 12 - 02:54 PM

Origins: Redwing 1907 by Thurland Chattaway and music by Kerri Mills who adapted tune from " The Merry Peasant" by Robert Schumann 1848 Opus 68. number 16. See also (unrelated?)) Native American silent film star Redwing (Lily St. Cyr) and associated films with heroic Native American themes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,Phil Crifase
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:19 AM

This is the version we sang in the depression thirties. I believe Blacking* was the name of a black-like-paste that would harden when applied to fill a hole in the sole of ones shoe


Oh the sun shines bright on Charlie Chaplin
His shoes are cracking, they're needing blacking*
And his old grey pants are needing patching
Where he was scratching' mosquito bites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:49 AM

Blacking used to be a familiar term for shoe polish.

I know the last line as "Until they send him to the Dardanelles".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,Henry piper
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:12 PM

The reference to the dardanelles refers to the fact that Chaplin was a concientious objector and refused to serve in the first world war, a stance that did serious damage to his career at the time, .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,Jim Lackey---My Daddy's version:
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 09:16 PM

Oh it's so sad now for Charlie Chaplin
His shoes are crackin
For lack of blackin.
And his little brown britches then heed patching
Where he's been scratchin
Mosquito bites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: GUEST,c.g.
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 06:05 AM

His old grey ulster it needs mendin'
Before they send 'im
To the Dardanelles.

An ulster is a type of overcoat, and mendin' send 'im is almost a rhyme.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 07:10 AM

I was surprised to hear it in , I seem to recall ,a John Wayne film , "Chisum" I think it was ; he also referred to things as being "all bollocksed up" ; I thought that "bollocks" didn't feature in the American lexicon , but hey !!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Redwing - East Anglian Song and Tune
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:48 PM

Re; From: Stewie - PM
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 08:10 PM

One, two, three O'lairy
My ball's down the airey
don't forget to give it to Mary
Not to Charlie Chaplin.