BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 07:01 PM

Hey, jimmyt, a new pronounciation for Ciceter, Cister, Cissester and Ciren! You really picked a good one to get wrong - probably the smile was because its notorious as none of the others are, not because of your tranatlantic ignorance. Everyone gets it wrong in someone's ears.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 07:16 PM

Nasty/Nazi - not much difference

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 09:49 AM

LMAO, that's a good one!

Another question, over here we always saw nawt-zee (nazi), but I always hear nat-zee on the BBC. The harsh "a" sounds so strange when it seems the norm "over there" is the other? So...how does one know whether it will be one way or the other?

There was anotehr but I can't think what it was at the moment.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 08:47 AM

GUEST, Q, thanks for your comments. I haven't had time this weekend to do much research on derivation of element names. I recall from a long time ago having trouble with the tests to distinguish rare earths, ("Lanthanides"), and we students described a potmess of Yttrium, Erbium and Ytterbium, all from the same quarry at Ytterby in Sweden, as the element, "Utterbunkum"

I now hear material scientists and nuclear physicists all demanding larger and purer samples of "Unobtanium". I presume this is the US spelling also ?

Jimmyt, a friend of mine once backpacked in Australia, and took a temporary job in a postal sorting office. She came across a letter to the UK which the Australian posties were having trouble with. They couldn't find anyone who knew where LOOGABAROOGA was. The letter was addressed to LOUGHBOROUGH.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: jimmyt
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:33 PM

My first driving trip to England, I tried to get in step with the pronounciations of various cities, (helps when getting driving directions!) After muddling either Worcester or Gloucester I thought I had it figured out until asking driving time to CRINSTER in the Cotswolds, only to have the gentleman smile and shake his head at my stupidity, saying, Oh you mean Cirencester. Go figure! You can't win! I gues the thing is,. you may call something anything you want as long as other people know what you are referring to. We have a local town that is called Lafayette pronounced Luh FAY et, in stead of the usual way. Same thing in south Georgia, I used to live in Houston county, called locally HOW sten. I was asking directions in Atlanta when I first moved here for Ponce De Leon Street! Imagine my surprise when the guy said, Oh you mean Ponce Du LEE awn

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 01:58 PM

Misplaced sentence in my post. The sentence, 'The Company also publishes....." belongs at the end. Sec. B is 555 pp.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 01:53 PM

HuwG, you are on the right track. The word is from the Gk. molybdos, lead. Plumbago is an old term for graphite.
"Before Scheele recognized molybdenite as a distinct ore of a new element in 1778, it was confused with graphite and lead ore. The metal was prepared in an impure form in 1782 by Hjelm." The name commemorates the old confusion.
This from the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 54th ed. (1974), Chemical Rubber Company Handbook Series.. The quarto book weighs many pounds. Most chemistry students would buy a copy for reference. This means that used copies are common and cheap. The basic info. stays the same for years, so an old copy is a handy addition to your library.
The book contains several sections (1974 ed.):
A Mathematical Tables. Logarithms, trig functions, all the good stuff. 192 pp.
B The elements and inorganic compounds (many, many thousands) and all properties, such as solubility, x-ray properties and other stuff.
The company also publishes handbooks on Food Additives, Lasers, Microbiology, Clinical Laboratory Procedures, Flavor Ingredients, and who knows what else at this point in time.
555pp.
C Organic compounds. 775 pp. in 1974, and it was growing rapidly.
D General chemistry. 246 pp.
E General Physical Constants. 247 pp.
F Miscellaneous. All sorts of stuff. Physical properties of pigments (useful for artists), formulas, wire gauges, all the facts about the Earth, Constants for satellite geodesy, chemical composition of rocks, conversion factors and a hundred other headings. 309 pp.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 09:42 AM

Amazing...here's what plumbago looks like in my house: please click!*bg*

Keep posting, folks, this is wonderful!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM

Guest Q has beaten me to the draw with the derivation of "Lanthanum".

I would assume that "Tantalos", to use the Greek form, is pronounced, "Tant-ah-los", rather than "Tant-ay-los", and "Tant-ah-lum" therefore involves no major change of pronunciation, where "Tant-ay-lium" would.

"Molybdenum"; now, Rutley's wasn't very forthcoming about the origins of its name. Rutley's is primarily a field and laboratory guide (and my copy bears ample evidence of having been well-used in both settings), written on the assumption that a geologist needs to spot it in the wild and test for its presence in the lab, but not waste time musing over its etymology. However, an old (1920) dictionary, gives it as being derived from the Greek, "molybdenaios" which in turn is a form of (or perhaps a quality of) "molybdos", their word for "plumbago" [Yes, yes, the Greeks had a word for it. OK].

Plumbago is a form of naturally occurring graphite. The most famous deposits of these are in the Langdale Fells in the Lake District in the UK. However, there are smaller deposits of the stuff around. The Greeks presumably performed a "streak test", which involves smearing a sample of the mineral on a rough surface like the back of a bathroom tile* to test the colour of the powdered sample, useful for distinguishing gold from pyrite ("Fools' gold") for example. The mineral Molybdenite, MoS2, has a similar black streak to that of graphite, and looks about the same, especially when it occurs in impure form, mixed up with various other iron and copper sulphides. There are lots of chemical and other tests which distinguish the two, but it would be this property which the Greeks would have used to classify or use molybdenite.

* The Greeks may not have had bathroom tiles even if the damn' things turn up everywhere you start digging, but could have used broken pieces of Greek urn for the same purpose. The "streak" of gold is gold (of course), while that of pyrite is black.

I will have to post further, once I find out the derivation of "plumbago". Could the ancients have thought that it had properties similar to that of Lead (latin, "plumbum") ?

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 05:56 PM

One for the grammar police :

With reference to Mr Red's post above, if two people with psychic ability were to encounter each other, would it be the meeting of two media, or two mediums?

I know the answer, I just want to see the contortions ....

(Usual apologies for thread creep)

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 03:40 PM

Tantalos(us), son of Zeus and Pluto, father of Niobe (niobium), divulged secrets entrusted to him by Zeus, who punished him by inflicting him with a raging thirst. Tantalos was placed in the midst of a lake, whose waters receded from him as soon as he attempted to drink. Apparently this story did not give rise to the song, "If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...."

Niobium prevailed over Columbium as the name for the element. Niobe, who had many children, considered herself superior to Leto, who only had two, Apollo and Artemis (Diana). These two children, angered, slew all of Niobe's children.

Palladium, named for the asteroid Pallas, in turn named for Pallas, the goddess of wisdom, etc. etc.

Lanthanum, from Gk. lanthanein, to be hidden.

Much of the argument over the terminations -ium and -um came from grammatical interpretations of how Greek words should be brought into English use. I remember vaguely a lecture on this in which a professor said aluminium was incorrect and indicative of ignorance of the rules. Since I was in chemical studies at the time, I remember some of these statements, but the grammatical reasons were lost to me within seconds of hearing them. Whether the prof was right or wrong, I don't think any of us cared.

"Pig"- I mistyped 1854 for 1754. Capt Grose first put out his dictionary in 1785, but the word (I have been told- not seen this work) appeared in "The Scoundrels Dictionary" of 1754.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bert
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:21 PM

Aaaargh! ya got me Nigel!

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:53 AM

For a picture of an antique Tantalus see here and scroll down half a page

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:48 AM

HuwG: of course a Tantalus is also a container (usually antique) containing decanters of liquid (usually spirits) which, although in full view, can only be unstoppered if the tantalus is unlocked. The derivation is the same.

bert: "How can an Englishman be a Tory if he has the slightest intelligence? "
With difficulty, if he has 'the slightest intelligence' he should vote Labour!
With normal, or greater intelligence then he may vote Conservative.

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:22 AM

HuwG, that's right, I didn't think it was about mythology, sorry I wasn't clear about it. I love mineralogy and so enjoy hearing about it, too!

Most interesting, all of you! I realised last night, as I picked up my latest Anne Perry novel, that I had not heard rozzer on BBC America; I'd read it, in use, in her books of Victorian England. I wondered as my Rog said he didn't recall hearing it on tv. My mistake, but i guess it does show good research on her part.

I love it when you all start digging through your resources and post the information! It is such a wonderful education and all right here at the Mudcat!

Thanks!

katwhosayskillOMmetur:-)

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:14 AM

G'day again GUEST,Q,

"... but "pig" for policeman is there in a dictionary of 1854. ..."

Actually, "Pig" = A police officer ... a Bow Street officer ... &c appears in the 1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue, London - based on Capt. Francis Groses' 1785 original ... as does "Screw" = To copulate ... a female prostitute ... &c.

These are typical examples of older English slang preserved in an ex-colonial country, such as America ... when they have been long-forgotten in their country of origon. Most English regard them as "American neologisms", which they first saw in American novels from the 1930s on.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 06:31 AM

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Mr Red being lazy
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 06:30 AM

Bill D
In the UK we listen to radio programmes but we do write computer programs

I saw a job ad by a publishing company assk for a person to work in different mediums turned the page and another publishing company was using a slogan like Media Maestro's

gazing into my crystal ball I hit on the notion (and stiking a happy medium?) I predict that mediums will soon refer to a multiplicity of mediums and media will be the publishing/broadcasting. TV (eg) will be a media - come to think about it we are on the cusp now.
I guess it depends on whether you are media oriented or mediums orientated.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 06:18 AM

I hope you haven't got the wrong idea, katlaughing. By "Rutleys", I mean "Rutley's Elements of Mineralogy", ed. H.H. Read, the standard reference book for minerals; nothing to do with mythology.

In any case, I clean forgot that I wouldn't have time last night to look up anything; I went to a singaround in Glossop Labour Club and didn't escape till the small hours. I made a right pig's ear of "The Band played Waltzing Matilda" - new guitar technique didn't quite work, but was very much cheered up when another player, far better than I am, got halfway through "The green Fields of France" and dried completely. Sorry, Mr. Bogle.

Out on the tiles again tonight, will try and remember "Rutley's" later. Might also have a go with Gilchrist's "Extraction Metallurgy", another long-disused relic from University.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bert
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 11:38 PM

How can an Englishman be a Tory if he has the slightest intelligence?

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 11:33 PM

Oregano is Spanish (Mexican), so it is pronounced O-RAY-gan-o by us connoisseurs. Can't make chili without it. O-re-GAN-o, I imagine on a percentage basis, would win hands down in Canada (and the non-Latin world?). To say wild marjoram just ain't upscale enough.

We used to say ki-LOM-e-ter But as Bob Bolton said, when they revised the metrics and adopted them in Canada, it became kil-o MEAT-er (-tre). Being American originally, I still say miles. As do the rest of the Americans since they haven't adopted metrics (the real Americans, the Bush men). The Mexicans had the metric system a long time ago, and have kept ki-LOM-e-tre- never could pronounce that -tre.

Rozzer- First appeared in print in 1893 in England, but probably mid-or early Victorian. It is not in the dictionaries of cant and flash language of 1750-1811, but "pig" for policeman is there in a dictionary of 1854. Was there a policeman named Ross? Who knows?

Always heard boy-an-cy for buoyancy in US and Canada.

The "-ile" words, such as hostile, show a definite break with British-Canadian usage. Hos-tul in the US, hos-tile elsewhere. Penny S, you are right, missile-missul-missal is an odd one. I have heard a few people substitute mis-uled for misled.

LAB-o-ra-tory (US) versus La-BOR-a-tory (Can.) versus something like La-BOR-a-try(tery) in England (How can an Englishman be a Tory when he can't pronounce -tory when it is attached to a root word?)

Why isn't centre pronounced cen-try? Why isn't butter buttre? 'Tis a puzzlement.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 10:41 PM

LMAO, BillD!! Thank yew, kind sir!

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:33 PM

More!...and even more interesting because it tells me where that phrase from Mad Magazine came from (back in the 60s)

"it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide"

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:26 PM

stuff on 'rozzer' etc

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 03:43 PM

HuwG, thank you! Great to have the old memory of mythology refreshed. I look forward to hearing what you find in your references.

Would someone please tell me where the slang name for policeman, rozzers came from?

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 01:32 PM

katlaughing, thank you, that was interesting and informative. How about renaming it to "Kitchenfoilium" (Symbol, Ki) ?

Looking back over my posts, I wonder why "Tantalum" is not spelt or pronounced "tantalium". I know it is named after a character in Greek mythology - Tantalus, who for a punishment was immersed in a river in Hell while bunches of grapes waved just over his head. Every time he tried to pick a grape, the vines were pulled up out of reach and every time he bent to drink, the river dried up. Hence, "tantalising". No doubt Tantalum got this name because it is such an awkward element to separate and isolate (in most ores, it forms a stoichiometric series of compounds with Niobium - no, don't ask).

In this case, British and other usage may have followed US practice. I will go home and dig out the copy of "Rutleys" which I last used over twenty years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bert
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 01:27 PM

Neither Bill, It is from The East End and of course the t would really be a glottal stop.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 01:20 PM

Idiomatically speaking, both versions of the language are a bit odd in spots. Consider that, on either side of the pond, a "slim chance" and a "fat chance" are the same thing.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 12:47 PM

Didn't read the whole thread, eh, HuwG?**BG** (Just teasin'.) Here's an earlier post which answers your question:

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bernard - PM
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 08:30 AM
In The Mudcat Shop: Davy

Facts:

source

While aluminum was discovered by Hans Christian Oersted, Denmark, 1825 (impure form); most credit Wohler with isolating it in1827.

Actually the ancient Greeks and Romans used alum (aluminum sulfate with potassium) in medicine and in dying. de Morveau recognized the base in alum in1761 and proposed it be called alumine. Lavoisier thought that alum was an oxide of this undiscovered metal. In 1807 Davy proposed the name alumium for this undiscovered metal, but it wasn't until 1827 that Wohler actually isolated aluminum, though an impure form was isolated by Oersted two years earlier.

The new metal was called aluminum. Two years later it was changed to aluminium to conform with the "ium" in most other elements. American Chemical Society changed the spelling back to aluminum in 1925, which we still use. England and elsewhere in the world they still spell it aluminium. So if you hear someone say "al-u-min'-i-um foil" instead of aluminum foil, you'll know where it came from.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 11:52 AM

And "tantalum".

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:21 AM

Ooops ! I forgot that the spelling of "molybdenum" is the same in both the English-speaking and American-speaking worlds also, before you all pounce on my lapse.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:18 AM

If you search through Tom Lehrer's Elements Song, you will note that "aluminum" is the odd one out; there is no other element (other than "lanthanum", which is the same both sides of the Atlantic) pronounced in the US as "somethingum", rather than "somethingium".

I have to admit that I would have difficulty in pronouncing "rubidum", "osmum", "helum", "ytterbum" or "sodum" while keeping a straight face.

Has anyone any idea when, where and why the American chemists dropped the "i" from "aluminium" (or was it we hide-bound Brits who put it into "aluminum") ?

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 11:43 PM

"...In London it used to be Worta."

would that be south London, north London....or......

I neve saw such variation in accents in a small area.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 11:08 PM

Let's all sing the chorus:
Al-u-MIN-e-um! Al-u-MIN-e-um! etc. Or
Al-YEW min-um! Al-YEW-min-um! etc.
(Pulling the hole in after me)

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bert
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 10:44 PM

That depends where she was in England. In London it used to be Worta.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 05:08 PM

(my wife reminds me that in England years ago, she could not get a glass of H₂O until she said ...approximately..."wawo-tah")

she KNEW that the waitress was intentionally misunderstanding her, but.......

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Penny S.
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 04:23 PM

I always find missile, hostile, and laboratory to have interesting variations. When I hear Americans use them, I always have to decode, even if the context does not suggest Catholic prayer books, places for temporary stays, and toilets to be appropriate. And then there's buoys. Do people talk about booeeancy when discussing flotation?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 09:16 AM

INventry
CLEmatis
JUNta
oreGAHno
CLOmeter

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: HuwG
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 07:32 AM

How do I pronounce "kilometers" ?
Easy - "K's" (or "Kays")
If really pushed, I'll go along with Mr Happy's "killermeters".

Sian from West Wales, how do I pronounce:

inventory ? "Catalogue" (or "Catalog" in US-speak or computer-speak)
clematis? "Triffid" (Well, it is that climbing thing that tries to entrap me every time I walk past it).
junta? Usually, "Djunta" i.e. with a "j" as in "jug". "Hunta", only if I'm showing off

Oh, and in my opinion, "Brin mar" has devolved, not evolved from "Brynmawr". (I cannot hear about a devolution debate without giggling, ever since I was tasked at work with devolving some computer control system from the server to the clients. It didn't look good on my timesheets that I spent four weeks devolving. I didn't say, into what.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: robinia
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 07:06 AM

Personally I like perSEverance; note that with this pronounciation you have no impulse to write "perserverance" ...

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bagpuss
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 06:15 AM

I seem to remember learning that in general, rhotic accents (ie ones that pronounce non leading 'r's) are in rural areas, and non-rhotic ones are from urban areas. This is in England, and I think the opposite is true in the US?

I say inVENtory, clemAYtis, HUNta (with the h pronounced as a spanish J) and oreGAHno. Oh, and jammies, jahmas or jim-jams(for pajamas)

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 06:07 AM

Well, I pronounce them as you do, kat. But I've heard inVENTree (also, INven-tree if memory serves), CLEMatis and JUN ta over here. Also, in Canada, clemATEis. Several of my friends get on my case over oREGano too. I must admit that oreGANo sounds more Italian ...

Let's see if any born-and-bred Brits come back on this one.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 05:36 AM

Sian,

Out west we would say

inventory - INN ven toree

clematis - kleh MA tis (the MA is as in matter)

junta - hoon tah (lots of Spanish influence out here, plus I've had it in school:-)

Some of my in-laws (not lahrs!) live near Brin mar.*bg*

Now, how do YOU pronounce them?

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 05:28 AM

Mr Red: surely the spelling for 'Fanshaw' is Featherstonehough !

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 05:09 AM

north west eng: kilometres is 'killermeters'

someone i knew used to say 'sillylitres' when he meant centilitres.

also recall in the 70's people commenting how they didnt like the money being 'decimated'

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 04:44 AM

OK, how do you pronounce:

inventory?
clematis?
junta?

The British seem to pronounce them differently to how we did in Canada.

And how do the Muricuns say "Brynmawr". Seems to me it had ... evolved? ... from the original Welsh.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bert
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 04:19 AM

A Kilo-meter is a thousand meters. A Kill-ometer is an instrument for measuring kills.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 03:43 AM

Nobody wanted to explain to Gough that he might just possibly be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 03:34 AM

G'day Bill,

Interestingly, I always pronounced "kilometres" as (~) kil-om-metters - approximating the pronunciations from my high school French. It was only when 'metrication' was seriously adopted in Australia - and the long term Liberal (ultra-conservative) Party government temporarily ousted by the Labor Party - that the Official pronunciation became "kill-O-meters" ... And that was claimed to be because that was the "International" (read "American") pronunciation ... and even then, Prime Minister Gough Whitlam - a classicist (and Graecist) of note always preferred the pronuciation with which i was familiar!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: BS: AluMINium or ALUminum -more fun!
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Nov 02 - 10:34 PM

on one TV program the other day, I heard two different men, both Brits, refer to the measurement of distance on the roads as "KILL-o-meters" and "Kill-AHM-aters" ...to my American ear, KILL-o-meters sounds awkward, but I guess it's all in what you grew up hearing.

What I do object to is media folk who adamantly refuse to even attempt to learn the pronunciation of foreign words and keep calling Presidents, Kings, countries, states, etc, by names that make me cringe!
   I remember "Simon Bolliver" from my school days! (liberated S. America or something)...they do similar things to Osama bin Laden, ANY Spanish country/leader.

One of the major things seems to be a rabid devotion to either long or short 'a' sounds...no matter HOW the natives want them pronounced. The use or dis-use of 'r's is a close 2nd! (some manage to milk an 'rrrrrrrr' for several seconds, others ignore it...*grin*)