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Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook

DigiTrad:
LOST ON THE LADY ELGIN
RED IRON ORE
THE BIGLER'S CREW


Related threads:
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Lake Huron Shipwrecks (10)
Lyr Add: The Ward Line (7)
Question for Michigan Songsters!!! - Storm of 1913 (6)
Help: Great Lakes Chanty Sings? (3)


pattyClink 15 Jan 03 - 02:21 PM
sian, west wales 15 Jan 03 - 03:45 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM
catspaw49 15 Jan 03 - 04:24 PM
Joe Offer 15 Jan 03 - 04:35 PM
Abby Sale 15 Jan 03 - 05:48 PM
Cap't Bob 15 Jan 03 - 07:35 PM
Mooh 15 Jan 03 - 10:32 PM
Charley Noble 15 Jan 03 - 10:49 PM
Beccy 16 Jan 03 - 09:27 AM
Mooh 16 Jan 03 - 10:40 AM
Spartacus 16 Jan 03 - 10:55 AM
Charley Noble 16 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Big Mick 16 Jan 03 - 11:06 AM
pattyClink 16 Jan 03 - 02:30 PM
Art Thieme 16 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM
harpgirl 17 Jan 03 - 12:09 PM
Beccy 17 Jan 03 - 12:41 PM
Beccy 17 Jan 03 - 12:48 PM
pattyClink 02 Feb 03 - 08:33 PM
harpgirl 02 Feb 03 - 08:40 PM
Abby Sale 02 Feb 03 - 10:26 PM
Bat Goddess 03 Feb 03 - 09:38 AM
KathWestra 03 Feb 03 - 02:28 PM
breezy 03 Feb 03 - 04:55 PM
Art Thieme 03 Feb 03 - 05:33 PM
Art Thieme 03 Feb 03 - 06:41 PM
pxp 04 Feb 03 - 10:31 AM
KathWestra 04 Feb 03 - 11:59 AM
GUEST,Joann and Lee Murdock 06 Mar 03 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Joann and Lee Murdock 06 Mar 03 - 12:06 PM
EBarnacle1 06 Mar 03 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Q 06 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM
denise:^) 06 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM
Hester 18 Mar 03 - 07:17 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Aug 04 - 11:29 PM
Dave Ruch 20 Jun 05 - 08:12 AM
radriano 20 Jun 05 - 11:23 AM
Dave Ruch 21 Jun 05 - 06:40 PM
KathWestra 21 Jun 05 - 11:22 PM
GUEST,Patrick McLeod 09 Jan 06 - 10:31 AM
open mike 09 Jan 06 - 12:19 PM
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Subject: Great Lakes songs
From: pattyClink
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:21 PM

I don't know if anybody except Big Mick gives a flip, but I stumbled across a new publication which at least gets a little of Ivan Walton's mighty collecting efforts into print. Lee Murdoch participated in the project. I haven't seen/heard it yet but wanted to pass on the link.

Wayne State site


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:45 PM

i want this book
i greatly covet this book
it shall be mine ...

sian


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:13 PM

Neat!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:24 PM

Great info Patty....and you couldn't be more wrong about only Mick giving a flip! I think Joe Offer and a few others besides the ones you see so far have more than a passing interest! Thanks again!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:35 PM

Yes, Joe Offer was born in Detroit and raised in Wisconsin, and has a serious craving for Great Lakes songs. I got Windjammers as soon as it came out, and I highly recommend it.
-Joe Offer, in exile in California-


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Abby Sale
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 05:48 PM

See Clicky (Winnipeg/Buffalo Whore)
(Joe - see unharvested variant there)


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 07:35 PM

Many thanks Patty. I spend a good part of each summer sailing primarily on Lake Huron, the North Channel and Georgian Bay. I'm always looking for good songs about the Great Lakes.

Cap't Bob


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:32 PM

I can walk to Lake Huron in 5 minutes (and have been feeling those wicked winds all day), and we have the family home up on Georgian Bay, so I think I'll buy this.

I've always felt better living near the water.

Thanks for the link!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 10:49 PM

Another Great Lakes songbook I ran across in a used book shop was FLOTSAM, JETSAM AND LAGAN by Capt. Ernie Hall, Cornell Maritime Press, 1965. It's got some unique ballads and stories. You could probably find a used copy from Bookfinders.com

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Beccy
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 09:27 AM

Hey Mooh- You ever been to MTU's ice sculpting contest? My Dad used to be part of it.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 10:40 AM

Beccy...You got me, what's MTU? Been to the Wiarton Willie Festival though (now there's a name to generate lewd comment here!).

Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Spartacus
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 10:55 AM

I just ordered a copy. Thanks for the info. I love Michigan, and I'm always looking for (and writing) lore and songs related to the great lakes.

Thanks for the tip
-SPartacus


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM

Don't forget that famous "Fresh-Water Whaling Song" originally titled "Fresh-Water Sperm."

Is the Privateers duo still doing Grat Lakes songs in the Chicago area?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: GUEST,Big Mick
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 11:06 AM

Without a cookie for a few days......

Thanks Patty. I will be picking this one up in the next week. Soon as I get done foolin' around with Microsoft and this damn XP operating system.............love 'em/hate 'em

Mick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: pattyClink
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:30 PM

Cool, it's good to know there are more than a few Great Lakes singers out there. And spaw and Clint were both downright sweet about it! There's gotta be a catch...


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 02:31 PM

Lee Murdock and cohorts did a fine job on this book. And the accompanying CD is a wonder.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: harpgirl
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 12:09 PM

Marquette Tech??? Thanks Patty . I ordered it! Can't wait. Anyone need agalley slave for cruising Georgian Bay. One of my favorite anchorages is South Benjamin Island.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Beccy
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 12:41 PM

Nice guess, harpgirl. It's Michigan Tech U. They also have a great hockey program. I went to my first hockey game at their old rink when I was just a wee bairn of 6 weeks old. My Dad said he knew he had a hockey lover when a fella got body checked into the glass in front of us and I laughed...
Anyway, the ice sculpting contest is a pretty neat one. It's a lot of fun if you can make it. The student organizations do the sculptures.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Beccy
Date: 17 Jan 03 - 12:48 PM

Okay- My Dad just read me the proverbial riot act over the phone. He said it's a "SNOW SCULPTING" contest. NOT, an ice sculpting contest. Same diff. It's pretty neat. I've included a blue clicky for the college's website. Its happening next month.

Michigan Technological University: Winter Carnival 2003


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: pattyClink
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 08:33 PM

I got my copy of Windjammers yesterday. I was amazed to hear such a large contingent of Beaver Islanders on the disc. What a scream to hear grandpa Dominick on cut 2! And John W. He was a great-uncle or something and great fun, and when the older kids were little they loved to go play at his house on Beaver Harbor in the summers. Whenever my mom heard about that she would run to retrieve them. He drank to excess, and Mom's worst malediction was 'you'll wind up just like John-W!'   How cool that the old gent's faculty for remembering songs (if not performing them too splendidly) has put him in print for the ages.

Neat to hear all the other voices, too, even Walton's, richer than I thought it would be. And who's the mysterious Ed Vandenberg, apparently a performer rather than a source, who does the last 2 cuts?

Anybody know this Joe Grimm guy or the teacher Thelma James whose bequest apparently made this book possible? I'm so glad that at least some of this stuff is finally beginning to get out from under the lock and key it has been under. THANKS Thelma wherever you are!


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 08:40 PM

..I got my copy of the book and CD last week and it is a wonderful thing! Thatnks for the alert!


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Abby Sale
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:26 PM

I'm curious about Grimm, myself. Lee Murdock will be the best source about all aspects of this. See Murdock

He's been using the ms & archive for years.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:38 AM

i want this book; i greatly covet this book; it shall be mine ... sian

ME TOO!!!!

I was born up between Lake Michigan & Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan in Milwaukee.

Although I do a lot of salt water sea music, my heart is still on the Great Lakes. I need to add more of these songs to my repertoire. I'm going out to the car to see how much change I can find. I need this book!!! (Groceries be damned.)

Linn


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: KathWestra
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:28 PM

Geez, it's time to start a Mudcat Great Lakes Caucus! (Linn, I didn't know we had this in common, too. More conversation when I see you in May......) This Michigan girl was born in Ann Arbor and grew up in Grand Rapids, has been in love with the Great Lakes since childhood, and still thinks Lake Superior is one of the closest things to heaven on this Earth.

Windjammers is a terrific book and CD! It was reviewed in the latest edition of Sing Out!, and based on that review I ordered a copy for a friend as a Christmas present. When it came, I immediately ordered another for myself, knowing that George would never get his present otherwise. Loads of great stuff, and well worth the $24.95 price for the book/CD combo! Highly recommend it.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: breezy
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 04:55 PM

Does Stan Rogers warrant a mention in here?
Last Watch , White squall,re Wiarton, Tiny Fish for japan,, The Nancy,The Man With Blue Dolphin.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 05:33 PM

I heartily second all of the positive statements made in this thread about WINDJAMMERS ! It is a fine book----as is the CD. Imortant documents all. Old friend Lee Murdock should be lauded for his dedication to bringing these often obscure songs to the fore in this book, yes, but also through his own singing repertoir. Before Lee Murdock took up the challenge, we mostly only had the good collecting work of Edith Fowke and the one LP on Folkways Records of some of her collected artifacts. As fine as that one album was, it, in itself, had become obscure. Having these things handy here and now in this new century is quite wonderful. And having Lee Murdock's fine and more accessible voice enhancing these songs in our own times is something we all can be truly thankful for.

Lee, thank you for all of it !!! (And you can quote me !!!)

Love to you and Joann,

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:41 PM

REFRESH


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: pxp
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 10:31 AM

I see no obvious reference to the CD in the book and the CD database does not yet have it. Does anyone have a listing of the 15 tracks?


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: KathWestra
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:59 AM

The listing of all the tracks on the CD is printed near the back of the book. The CD is not available separately; it's in a plastic pocket bound onto the inside back cover of WINDJAMMERS. If I have some time I'll post that information in the next couple of days (unless someone beats me to it, which would be great since I'm swamped at work!) Kathy


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: GUEST,Joann and Lee Murdock
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:04 PM

Thanks to Art Thieme for bringing this thread to our attention. And apologies for taking so long to answer some of the questions, due to travel interruptions.

Regarding the Windjammers: Songs of the Great Lakes Sailors book and CD:

Who was Thelma James?

An English professor, ethnic folklorist, contemporary of Professor Walton's and archivist at Wayne State University. Professor James, along with Ivan Walton and another noted folklorist, Earl Clifton Beck (who collected among former Michigan lumberjacks) co-founded a folklore interest group in 1938, which evolved into the Michigan Folklore Society in 1940. Thelma James and Professor Walton were its first two chairs. Thelma James made a bequest to Wayne State Univ to support the publication of folklore and English studies.

Joe Grimm (the contemporary co-author with Walton) is an editor at the Detroit Free Press. He has also published another book with Wayne State University Press, "Michigan Voices: Our State's History in the Words of the People Who Lived It." He is presently working on another book, a compilation of Professor Walton's journals, which will be a companion to Windjammers. It will be called "SongQuest: The Journals of Great Lakes Lore Hunter, Ivan H Walton" (Edited by Joe Grimm) and it will probably be published in late 2004.??


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: GUEST,Joann and Lee Murdock
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:06 PM

One last post, and I'm caught up, I think.

The recordings on the CD that comes with the Windjammers book span more than 20 years and a range of technologies. They reflect the uneven capabilities of the equipment and Ivan H Walton's informants. The first and last two of the 15 cuts on the CD are not from the field, but from a program Walton organized at the University of Michigan in 1955 (Walton's opening remarks, and the contemporary singing of Ed Vandenberg:

"Bound Away on the Twilight" and "The Schooner Thomas Hume"

Bits of interviews by Alan Lomax can be heard on several cuts, all recorded on Beaver Island MI in August 1938:
"The Gallagher Boys" sung by John W Green, spoken story by Dominick Gallagher, Lomax interviewing.
"The Clifton's Crew" sung by Patrick Bonner, Lomax interviewing
"The Fisherman Yankee Brown" sung by Dan Bonner, Lomax interviewing
Also "The Gallant Tommy Boyle" sung by Pat McDonough
"The Smugglers of Buffalo" sung by John W Green

"The Timber Drougher Bigler" sung by Asa M Trueblood, Lomax interviewing, Port Huron MI, Sep 2, 1938

"The Old Barge Oliver Cromwell" Sung by John Gallino, Walton interviewing, Port Huron MI, Sep 2, 1938

"The EC Roberts" sung by Capt James Putnam, Walton Interviewing, Port Huron, MI Sep 1, 1938

"The Red Iron Ore", "The Timber Drougher Bigler" "The Wood Scow Julie Plante" sung by Harry Barney of Algonac MI, Walton interviewing, Port Huron MI Sep 1, 1938

"The Ill-Fated Persian" sung by John W Green, Walton interviewing, Beaver Island MI,   July 1959

"Bound Away on the Twilight" sung by Ed Vandenberg at the above-mentioned conference in 1955.

"The Schooner Thomas Hume" sung by Ed Vandenberg, same 1955 conference.

Ed Vandenberg was a contemporary of Professor Walton, and the last two cuts on the CD included with the Windjammers book were taken from a July 1955 presentation at the University of Michigan. Professor Walton's opening remarks at this (same) folklore program are the first cut on the book's CD.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:46 PM

It is so nice to have access to primary data.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 02:55 PM

Thanks- put a note about these into my copy. An excellent book!


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: denise:^)
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM

I regularly do workshops on Michigan / Great Lakes songs old and new, and, in order to keep myself from getting bored, I like to find new resources...
Thanks for the 'heads up!'

Denise:^)
also in Michigan


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes songs
From: Hester
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:17 AM

I'd recommend David Francey's song "Banks of the Seaway". A Scots-born Canadian, he sings about rural life in a lovely brogue. This song, he sings a cappella:

BANKS OF THE SEAWAY
A love song to Beth.

I took my love down to Summerstown
On the banks of the Seaway
Where the big ships go by
On the banks of the St. Lawrence River we lie
On the banks of that river so wide

And when we hear the winter turn
In the sound of the blackbirds cry
I'll take my love down to Summerstown…

And when we see the springtime turn
To a cloud in the summer sky
I'll take my love down to Summerstown…

And when we feel the summer turn
On the wind that the leaves will fly
I'll take my love down to Summerstown…

And when we hear the autumn turn
In the northern wind's cold cry
I'll take my love down to Summerstown…

Check out his website. Even the label he's with is called "Laker Music":

David Francey's website

Cheers, Hester


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Subject: Index:Windjammers:Songs of the Great Lakes Sailors
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:29 PM

Joe listed the songs in the index of "Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman" by Doerflinger (thread 54759).
Here is the list for Windjammers.

WINDJAMMERS: SONGS OF THE GREAT LAKES SAILORS
Ivan H. Walton and Joe Grimm
Wayne State University Press, Detroit, 2002
A Great Lakes Books Publication

Capstan Chanteys
Sally Brown
The Rio Grande
Shenandore
A-Roving
Banks of Sacramento
Santa Anna
The Ward Line
Heave Her Up and Bust Her
Good-bye, My Lover, Good-bye
Leave Her, Johnny, Leave Her
Homeward Bound
Rolling Home

Halyard Chanteys
Blow the Man Down
Blow, Boys, Blow
Roll the Cotton Down
Reuben Ranzo
Whiskey Johnny
Hanging Johnny
Tommy's Gone to Hilo
A Long Time Ago
The Drunken Sailor
In a Handy Four-Master

Short Drag Chanteys
Haul on the Bowline
Haul Away, Joe!
Boney

Amusement Songs
Songs of Everyday Life
It's Me for the Inland Lakes
Up Anchor
The Stomach Robber
The Sailor's Alphabet
Scrubber Murphy
We Leave Detroit Behind Us
The Sophie's First Trip
The Dreadnought
The Schooner John Bentely
The Flash Packet Worts
You Pretty Girls of Michigan
Bonnie Highland Laddie
The Three Bells
James Bird
The Dredge from Presque'ile
On Gravelly Bay
The Darius Cole and Mackinac
On the Schooner Africa
The Steamer Wyoming
The Fayette Brown
The Seamen's Union
The Buffalo Whore
The Smugglers of Buffalo

Songs of the Iron Ore Trade
The Red Iron Ore
Bound Away on the Twilight
A Trip on the George C. Finney
The Old Mont Line
Loss of the City of Green Bay

Songs of the Lumber Trade
The Timber Drogher Bigler
The Stone Scow
The Mules That Walked Our Fo'c'sle Deck
The Jennie P. King
A Trip on the Lavindy
On the Schooner Hercules
The Old Barge Oliver Cromwell
A Trip on the Scooner Kolfage
The Crew of the Clara Youll
The Jam on Gerry's Rocks (The Foreman John Monroe or Young Monroe)

Scow and Canalboat Songs
The Wood Scow Julie Plante
Legend of the Rosie Belle Teeneau
De Scow Jean La Plante
De Scow Look 'n' See
De Scow Nettie Fly
The Good Scow Alice Strong
Yim Yonson (The Scow Sam Patch)
The E-ri-o Canal
The Canaller's Lament

Songs of Beaver Island
Lost on Lake Michigan (The Gallagher Boys)
The Gallant Tommy Boyle
The Ill-Fated Vernon
The Pere Marquette
The Clifton Tragedy
The Seaman's Lament
The Clifton's Crew
The Clifton
The U. S. Lightship 98
The Fisherman Yankee Brown

Disaster Songs
Lake Huron's Rockbound Shore
The Ill-Fated Persian
Loss of the Maggie Hunter
The Schooner Thomas Hume
The Loss of the Gilcher
Lost on the Lady Elgin
The Shores of Michigan (The Antelope)
Cruel Waves of Huron
The Foundering of the Asia
The Dismasting of the Cummings
The Fierce Alpena Blow
The Loss of the Gilbert Mollison
Let the Lower Lights Be Burning
The Schooner Oriole
The Steam Tug Olson
The Wreck of the Julia Dean
The Schooner Jenkins
The Wreck of the Belle Sheridan
The car Ferry Marquette and Bessemer No. 2
The Loss of the Souvenir
The Old Bay State
The Carter and the Erie Belle
The Steamer Idaho

The Final Chapter
The Crack Schooner Moonlight

Glossary
Notes on Sources and Informants
Bibliography
Index of First Lines
Name and Subject Index

Content of the CD previously listed.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 08:12 AM

I just received my copy of "SongQuest", the new companion book to Windjammers, and I'm enjoying it immensely. It is essentially the transcribed notes from Ivan Walton's trips around the lakes in the 1930's, interviewing old sailors with memories of songs & related lore from the great age of sail on the lakes.

One of the things I'm finding very interesting is that when he would interview an old sailor who only remembered a few songs, those songs would almost inevitably be "The Bigler" and "Red Iron Ore". I have often read/heard that these were amongst the most popular of all of the songs sung on the lakes (and in the taverns), but suspected the folk revival might have something to do with that (maybe they were the songs that the folk revival singers picked up on and re-popularized). It's interesting to see the popularity of these two songs amongst the sailors themselves in dozens of interviews with old-timers from Ontario & upstate NY to Michigan & beyond.

Of course, he interviewed many sailors who knew far more than just a few songs too.

I got my copy from Wayne State University Press, but I know the book is also available from Lee Murdock's website. If you're inclined to help out a folkie, you might get your copy through him.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: radriano
Date: 20 Jun 05 - 11:23 AM

I grew up in Chicago and so am very interested in the songs of the Great Lakes sailors. Chanteyranger and I recorded two shanties from the Windjammer book (with permission) on our new cd "Boldly from the Westward" - the two songs were "Heave Her Up and Bust Her" and "Goodbye, My Lover, Goodbye."


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 06:40 PM

And I grew up (and live) in Buffalo, a town made on it's position on the lakes. During certain periods in the 19th century, more immigrants passed through here than Ellis Island.


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: KathWestra
Date: 21 Jun 05 - 11:22 PM

Thanks a million, Dave, for posting the notice of this companion book. I love Windjammers, and will definitely want this one. Thanks too for the references on where it can be purchased. Ordering now...


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: GUEST,Patrick McLeod
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:31 AM

I would love to hear a performance of "The car Ferry Marquette and Bessemer No. 2".
It's the ship my Great Grandfather John C. went down on with his brother Robert.

Does anyone know where I could find it?

-Patrick


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Subject: RE: Great Lakes Songs/ Windjammers Songbook
From: open mike
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:19 PM

another book/c.d. combo that Lee has is the Christmas goes to Sea .
Delightfully illustrated with paintings, drawings and fotos, and includes the song the CHRISTMAS SHIP, the Rouse Simmons, mentioned
in this thread:http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=87623


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