Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?

Subject: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 06:31 PM

Would any Mudcatters in the New Orleans area care to verify the correct spelling of Lake Pontchartrain ?

Google searches on "Pontchartrain", "Pontchatrain", "Ponchartrain" and "Ponchatrain" all bring up results, although by far the most popular is "Pontchartrain".

I would also be interested to know whether the other spellings are regarded as "incorrect" or whether they are in fact valid alternate spellings.

Murray

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 07:09 PM

The Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names, which is a source I trust, finds 8 places named Pontchartrain. It also gives "Lake Pont-Chartrain" as an alternative name (which makes sense, because "pont" means "bridge" in French. I don't know where "Chartrain" comes from.)

It finds nothing with the other spellings you mention.

A Google search using "Pont-Chartrain" turns up several French websites, but I'm afraid I'm not fluent enough to figure out what it all means.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:43 PM

Chartrain was a suburb of New Orleans, now called Minesburg. God knows why. It would make sense that Pont-Chartrain, later Pontchartrain, was named for a bridge between New Orleans and Chartrain. Historically, Chartrain is a town in the Loire   region of France where the Loire is closest to Paris, where the Cathedral of Notre Dame to Chartres is located. Pont-Chartrain could therefore have been named for a Chartrain (one from Chartrain) who built it. Or blessed it in the name of said Dame.

'S all I know.

A

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 12:04 AM

As an afterthought the kinds of architecture and sculpture used in the cathedrals of Reims and Chartres between 1200-1400 more or less, are called the chartrain style. It is possible that Pont Chartrain was a bridge built following the influence of that style. It is also a widespread French family name and at least one renowned fur-trader (Louis) bore it. The county of France where Chartres is is called Chartrain, and I imagine the Cathedral was raised under the sponsorship of the Count de Chatrain. But I don't know anything earlier than that.



A

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 01:19 AM

...I think "Ponchartrain" is the Hoosier spelling, Murray!!!!!



Did ya miss The South Florida Folk Festival this year, Murray? I hear it was warm!

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 03:05 AM

Thanks for the learned input, Jim and Amos. I had a feeling that Pontchartrain was correct.

I did miss the Festival this year hg, but Elizabeth played there with her new partner. Warm by Scottish standards !

Murray

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: GUEST,Tom Henehan
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 04:06 PM

As already verified, the spelling in your subject line is, indeed, correct.

I am not going to re-research this right now, but I'm quite sure I have read that the Lake was named for a French nobleman named Pontchartrain (probably "Duke of..." or "Compte du..."), and not derived from "Chartrain" by adding the word "pont" (bridge) to the front end. I wouldn't be surprised if the honoree never set foot in the New World; quite a few place names around here honor Frenchmen who may have invested in the colony but who never showed up in person.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm intrigued by Amos' assertion that Milneburg used to be named "Chartrain," but I'm a little reluctant to believe it, if only because I've never heard such a thing before. I live about a mile and a half from the stretch of lakefront formerly called Milneburg (now well within the city limits of New Orleans) and have long been a student of local history and geography, so I *think* I know better...

Milneburg, located at the lake end of Elysian Fields Avenue, was a popular beach/resort in the late 1800's around the time that jazz began to emerge, so it was the site of plenty of good jobs for musicians. There was a railroad straight from "town," i.e, from the riverfront just outside the French Quarter, to the Milneburg lakefront. The train was known as the "Smoky Mary." One of the oldest tunes in the traditional jazz repertoire, "Milneburg Joys," is of course named after this venue. (Many oldtimers pronounce it "millen-berg" in the song title, although the street and the orphan home named "Milne" are both always pronounced "mill-ney.")

Until about 15-20 years ago, the Pontchartrain Beach amusement park occupied the lakefront at the end of Elysian Fields, so the old Milneburg area had a long tradition as a place for entertainment, etc. The site is now occupied by a "science and technology center" designed to attract and house high-tech businesses under the sponsorship of the adjacent University of New Orleans.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:31 PM

Guest Tom is correct. The lake was named for Compte de Louis Phelypeaux Pontchartrain, Comptroller General and Secretary of State for France ca. 1700. He was a learned man and helped revise one of the Academies of France, the Academie des Inscriptions et Belles Lettres.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 05:38 PM

Source of Information- The Encyclopaedia Britannica.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 12 - 02:54 PM

Right, and he was Count of Maurepas, which explains the name of the lake located to the west and connected via the Pass Manchac. I haven't found an explanation of the origin of that name.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 May 12 - 03:06 PM

I don't know if Wikipedia is correct, but it says Manchac is a Choctaw expression for "rear entrance" (i. e., to Lake Pontchartrain).

(I wonder if this is another of those made-up explanations, blamed on some native American language because that is hard to check.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 May 12 - 03:58 PM

Not many woods in the area now, judging by Google Earth. Are there still alligators and Cree old girls though?

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: ollaimh
Date: 13 May 12 - 12:55 AM

there were also several pontchartrain's written about in acadia in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. it was a fairly common french name. chartrain was also a french name but not as common in acadie.

i was recently reading farragher's book about the history of adadia and the ethnic cleansing committed by the americans and british. found one of my direct ancestors mentioned.pierre melancon dit laverdure. the elder.(we don't know if pierre melancon dit laverdure the younger was out direct line) and a couple of pontchartrain's as early acadien settlers.both were from huguenot background. that may explain their willingness to give it a try in the new world.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Monique
Date: 13 May 12 - 01:20 AM

Pontchartrain comes from the Latin "Pontem carnotensem" ancient place name corresponding to a bridge (pont) on the Mauldre river on the road that used to go from Lutetia (Paris) to Chartres, the Carnutes' capital in the Antiquity.

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 May 12 - 06:06 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnutes

Subject: RE: Spelling of 'Pontchartrain' ?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 12 - 02:11 AM

Hi John
how are youuuu?
Barb called me !! Good to be in touch again!
Hope you can all arrange to come up and see us soon, I am sure Barb mentioned it ok
Roz

ps not good on sp...ing